Talk:Poupée de cire, poupée de son

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[edit] Translation

"Wax Doll, Sawdust Doll" is a possible translation, however, "Wax Doll, Singing Doll" is the one used most often. This could be open to discussion though. --Bearbear 16:27, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

In my view, all this talk of poupée de son meaning "singing doll" is overblown and far-fetched thrashing around by English-speakers who, before this song, has never heard of any other French son word than the one meaning "sound".

There is absolutely no evidence that the phrase poupée de son has ever been used by French-speakers to mean the kind of doll made to "talk" by the operation of a string-pull.

There is, however, ample evidence that dolls stuffed with bran or sawdust (called "bran" in this case because it looks like bran) have long been called... "poupées de son". See the Littré Dictionary entry for Son in this sense:

Sciure servant à remplir des poupées ("Sawdust used as a stuffing for dolls").

In the song itself there are references to poupées de cire (wax dolls), poupées de son (stuffed dolls), poupées de chiffon (rag dolls). These are all of a piece: the idea is simply "So far I've just been a plaything, not yet a real person"; nothing to do with the recently invented Mattel talking dolls of the 1960s! -- Picapica 15:34, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

You're the only person who has managed to sway me with that idea! I never went too deep into the song, and the French lyrics (yes, "son" is only known to me as sound (well, and his/her/etc)!) but now I can see that this translation does make much more sense. It's probably a good idea to add that to the article in a section about the translation. Any thoughts?

It's on my "to do" list. I'll add some of the above info, probably in the form of a note about the title, very shortly. See what you think. --Picapica 13:39, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Now done. --Picapica 09:46, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Regardless of any cultural usages of the phrase "poupée de son", let's all bear in mind that the song does make a lot of reference to singing, voices and so on in the lyrics. I'm not saying that we need to change the translation, just that it seems a bit odd to discard what the song itself is saying at various points. BigHaz - Schreit mich an 00:06, 18 October 2006 (UTC)