Talk:Pound sterling

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Contents

[edit] Photos of coins

The photos appear to be lit from the bottom right - this is really quite strange, are there any replacement photos?

[edit] UKP abbreviation

UKP is a non-standard abbreviation.

For what, UK Penny or UK Pound? If the former, this should go with the official abbreviation and not with the information on pence and shillings.

It's often used as an abbreviation for UK Pound. It's wrong, and should not be used. -- Arwel 10:38, 20 May 2004 (UTC)
Correct, the pound sterling is GBP and a penny (ie 1/100th of a pound sterling) is GBX. I would guess the confusion comes from our informal country name (and TLD) being UK but our ISO 3166-1 code being GB -- OwenBlacker 21:52, Jun 2, 2004 (UTC)
I'm interested... can you provide references for the existence of GBX? Marnanel
Yeah, see a Google search. It's not a part of ISO 4217 but seems to be a frequent addition and is the standard abbreviation used for prices on the London Stock Exchange, which are all listed in pennies, presumably due to some phobia over decimal points :o) -- OwenBlacker 23:12, Jun 2, 2004 (UTC)
Hmm. Interesting. I've never seen that before. However, looking at your references, it's clear that GBX (and USX) are additional to ISO 4217, and their usage seems to be restricted to a few markets, so I'd be against giving them undue prominence. -- Arwel 23:30, 2 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I'd agree, I only mentioned it in reference to GBP; not worth putting in the main content, I'd suggest -- OwenBlacker 23:32, Jun 2, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Decimalisation

Also, see Talk:Decimal Day for comments about merging content spread across several pages regarding British decimalisation -- OwenBlacker 21:52, Jun 2, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Merger

Surely this should be merged with British coin One Pound, any opinions? Boffy b 23:16, 2004 Aug 20 (UTC)

Yes. Surely not. The one pound coin didn't exist until 1983 if memory serves me right. Sterling is about the currency, whilst British coin One Pound is about the artefact. Mintguy (T)
Fair enough, I've linked them together becuase I recently spent a while confused on one looking for the other. Boffy b
I'm suprised we don't have articles about the individual notes, as we do about the coinage. No mention of Isaac Newton and his Toblerone. Mintguy (T)
Same here, I was going to start one on the One Pound note, I have scanned one, but should I in some way deface it first? eg: Writing SPECIMIN or similar? Boffy b
I don't know about Britian, but in the US copies of currency must be at least 30% larger or smaller than the orginal.

I certainly don't think the articles should be merged — one is about the curency itself, the other is about the coin. I see no reason why there shouldn't be articles about the notes too. The Bank of England's website suggests it's illegal to reproduce British banknotes (even ones that are no longer valid), but [1] and [2] might tell you more. — OwenBlacker 14:11, Aug 21, 2004 (UTC)

Indeed. The problem with articles about notes is that the Bank of England controls their reproduction rather severely, and it's rather hard to meaningfully describe banknotes without pictures! We did have pictures of the Series D (1970s) £1 and £5 notes on the Bank of England article but someone took them down as we didn't have BoE permission. -- Arwel 15:33, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Pound Sterling/Pound sterling

Should this not really be at Ps and this page redirect there? Rich Farmbrough 12:45, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I have listed Pound sterling on Wikipedia:Redirects for deletion so that Pound Sterling can be moved to Pound sterling. A move does not work right now because "Pound sterling" has history. Indefatigable 16:00, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I think you got it the wrong way round. As currencies are proper nouns both words should be capitalised. What we have now is the equivalent of Charles dickens. Wincoote 17:23, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Historic value of the pound

Any idea on what 10 pounds in 1668 is worth today? I'm writing the article on Mumbai which was leased for the figure back then. Nichalp 19:27, Mar 12, 2005 (UTC)

and I wanted the answer for the same question in 1740. Does anybody have access to historic "value of the pound in your pocket" figures going back as far as possible? --Red King 00:12, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
eh.net has some good calculators. I'd advise reading their advisory notes on what the numbers actually mean, since it can vary a lot depending on what measure you use. Shimgray | talk | 00:19, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Legal tender

SPICe have quite a good briefing paper on this - (PDF). Among other things, "£1 worth of 1p coins is legal tender but £1.01 is not. £1 and £2 coins are legal tender in Scotland to unlimited amounts." (it's a weird system up here, but there you go - God only knows what the legal basis in NI is like). Shimgray 01:08, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

I'm now delving into the Stair Memorial Encyclopaedia, and goodness it's weird. SPICe seem to be wrong; we're told that -

The quantities of coins which are legal tender are as follows:
  1. gold coins are legal tender for payment of any amount, provided the coins do not fall below the minimum weight specified in the Coinage Act 1971, or in the proclamation under which they are made, as the least current weight;
  2. the £1 coin is legal tender up to any amount;
  3. cupro-nickel or silver coins of denominations of more than 10p are legal tender for payment of any amount not exceeding £10;
  4. cupro-nickel or silver coins of denominations of not more than 10p are legal tender for payment of any amount not exceeding £5;
  5. bronze coins are legal tender for payment of any amount not exceeding 20p.

However, this seems to be a bit out of date - it doesn't mention the £2 coin, except as regards "legal tender by proclamation" for oddities, and cites things like the 1980s commemorative £2 coins. Will investigate further; it's possible that when the £2 was declared legal tender they altered the criteria for what number of coins could be tendered at the same time, but I suspect it's more likely SPICe got it wrong. I don't know, them in their comfortable offices down at Holyrood, it's shocking... ;-)

One note, though - they later mention that:

The Bank of England is permitted to issue notes in denominations approved by the Treasury. These notes are legal tender in England and Wales and notes of less than £5 are legal tender in Scotland and Northern Ireland. This is not affected by the replacement of the £1 note by the £1 coin.

So were the Bank of England to decide to issue a £1 (or £2?) note again - which is implausible, but not impossible - then it'd be legal tender in Scotland, thus confusing this whole matter even further. (Existing English £1 notes, of course, are withdrawn by the Bank and thus don't count). I think my head hurts, now. Shimgray 01:44, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

I'm thinking it might be best to remove this whole section. Misinformation keeps creeping in and there's a lot of information missing. The Royal Mint Site has the correct amounts for legal tender of coinage. I could re-write the section, but the whole subject is already covered correctly and in detail here. --ascorbic 11:39, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] £ symbol

Does anyone know when the £ symbol came into use? Am I correct in thinking that it was formed by analogy from $ ? --Carl 11:10, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

No, it is much older than the $ symbol. It is simply an ornate letter L for 'libra' (Latin for pound). That dates back to the Roman libra or pound (hence lb for weight) and so a pound of silver.

It is comparatively recent in general use, though - until the last century or two, it was common to write "4000l." rather than "£4000" (similar to what would be written for a given number of shillings). Might be worth noting that, though not sure how to work it in. Shimgray 12:22, 29 May 2005 (UTC)

The article currently says "The pound sign is derived from the original german 'L'". I was about to change this to "...derived from the blackletter 'L'", but then I got to wondering if this is really true. The only mention I've been able to find so far of the £ symbol's history is at http://www.exeter.ac.uk/~RDavies/arian/dollar.html, which just says it's a "cursive capital L with a stroke through it" (though it also mentions that this origin is "well established"). So unless anyone can back this up, I think I'm going to take the "original german 'L'" bit out completely. —Steve Summit (talk) 03:59, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Empire and Commonwealth use of pound

The article ought to mention Irish pound, Australian pound, New Zealand pound and suchforth, and when these (a) changed their names and decimalised or whatever, and also (b) when they de-pegged, and why. Morwen - Talk 15:47, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] U.S. dollar and 5 shilling coin

The article on the "Pound sterling", under the section "Following the U.S. dollar", claims, "The U.S. dollar itself was derived from a 5 shilling coin used in the American colonies in the 1700s, hence the value of US$4 per pound sterling in use until then."

This contradicts the article "United States dollar", under the section "Origin of the name _dollar_" (a misleading title since the section describes the origins of both the name and the coin itself), which states, "The United States dollar derives from the Spanish 8 reales coin which was composed of just under one ounce of silver. This coin was popular among American colonists who called it the Spanish dollar, the name having derived from a German coin of similar size and composition known as the thaler. The first dollar coins issued by the United States mint were of the same size and composition as the Spanish dollar and even after the American Revolutionary War the Spanish and U.S. silver dollars circulated side by side in the United States."

I lean toward the Spanish 8-reales version. Comments?

Can't see what "which strictly speaking refers to basic currency unit of sterling, now the pound," means or adds to the definition.

Yes, I don't understand the sentence either, so I removed it. AxelBoldt 16:48, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

I was taught in college that the American dollar is based on the Spanish dollar which was divided into 8 equal pieces (Pieces of 8). With the American dollar, these 8 equal pieces came to be know as "bits", therefore 1 bit = 12.5 cents. This is why sometimes you hear of a quarter as being referred to as "2 bits".

  • The spanish milled dollar is considered a "crown-sized" coin which is probably the origin of the confusion here. Caerwine Caerwhine 17:44, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reasons for decimalisation

The article says:

"The multiples involved in the pre-decimal currency were such that amounts such as a pound or a shilling had many factors into which they could be exactly divided. However, as these monetary amounts decreased in spending power, and their subdivision therefore became a less important issue, it was decided instead to introduce decimal currency in order to simplify arithmetic."

The implication is that the ease of subdivision, which had previously been an argument against decimalisation, became less important due to inflation, and that this was a notable (or even major) reason for the decision to decimalise when we did. Is this really true? It sounds rather unlikely to me. If no-one objects then I may take it out and state that the primary reasons were to simplify arithmetic and to bring the UK into line with other countries. Thoughts? Matt 00:07, 2 December 2005 (UTC).

I don't think that can have been the reason - the decision to decimalise was taken in 1965 or 66, and inflation didn't really take off until about 1974. I can certainly remember going to Woolworths as a kid and seeing the sweets assortments for 3d and 6d, packets of KP peanuts were still 3d at the time of decimalisation (decimalised to 1p - just about the only thing I recall which actually became cheaper after decimalisation!). I remember packets of Smiths' Crisps going from 3d to 4d. I think decimalisation resulted in some awkward changes - having to feed payphones more frequently for one thing, as you had to use 2p's instead of 6d's! -- Arwel (talk) 12:28, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Question

I don't think it's mentioned in this article, but how many £ equal US$1? I'm just curious. --68.37.116.234 23:33, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

It depends on when you ask the question. See Economy of the United Kingdom#Exchange Rates for the history or a website like xe.com or oanda.com for today's interbank rate but lose 5% for tourist cash rate. --Red King 23:49, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
It depends on when you ask. The reference at Economy of the United Kingdom#Exchange Rates gives the average exchange rate for the last 10 years, where £1 has varied between $1.51 and $1.82. For most of the independent history of the US dollar, £1 was worth about $4.50 - $5, though it reached $10 during the American Civil War.
In 1800 - 1810 £1 was worth $4.34 - $4.55
During the War of 1812 it went down to about $3.50 - $3.70
Between 1815 and 1861, it never varied between $4.75 and $5
It hit the high point of $10 in 1864, and in the late 1860s it was worth $6.66
1870-76 it was $5.55, before the dollar got back to $4.80 level in 1877, which was fixed until 1914, when it momentarily hit $5 before going back to $4.80 between 1915-1918.
After the First World War things got a little unstable as Britain was off the Gold Standard, and the pound reached a low of $3.70 in 1920, before getting back to $4.80 in 1925.
During the Great Depression Britain left the Gold Standard again, so the rate got worse from 1931, hitting $3.45 in 1932, but by 1934 £1 was worth $5 again, where it stayed until 1939. WW2 weakened the pound again, with the rate set at $4.03 in 1941-48.
In 1950 the pound was devalued to $2.80, and in 1967 (we're getting into my memory now!) to $2.40.
in 1974 the Bretton Woods system of fixed exchange rates broke down, and since then the exchange rate has varied from day to day, usually depending on economic crises in the various countries - since 1980 the pound has been pretty consistently worth less than $2, and I remember it his a low of $1.08 in 1985 or 86, though it bounced back fairly quickly.
This site will let you find average exchange rates for the the dollar for different historic periods for various other currencies - for the pound it's 1791-2000, although in terms of $1 = so much of the other currency. -- Arwel (talk) 02:19, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

"Libra" is Latin for "scales." "Liber" means "pound." I'm correcting the second paragraph. BrianGCrawfordMA 00:47, 31 January 2006 (UTC) Actually should say "Libra", not "Liber" Moofresh 15:50, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Exchange rate WalrusMan118 22:38, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Status of Legal Tender.

Contrary to the article you cannot force someone to accept settlement in legal tender.

From the Bank of Englands website, 'Legal tender' has a technical meaning in relation to the settlement of a debt. Simply, it means that if a debtor pays in legal tender the exact amount he or she owes under the terms of a contract, he or she has a good defence in law, if they are subsequently sued for non-payment of the debt. In practice the concept of 'legal tender' does not govern the acceptability of banknotes as a means of payment. This is essentially a matter for agreement between the parties involved.

This is accurate, and can easily be verified; updated main page to reflect -- Nuwewsco 7th April 2006

[edit] Subdivisions

Jmabel had added The smallest unit of coinage was the halfpenny (pronounced "hay-p'ny") referring to pre-decimal coinage. This isn't true. Immediately prior to decimalisation in 1971, the smallest unit was a penny. The halfpenny had been withdrawn in 1969 (see History of the halfpenny), but was preceded back in time by smaller units, including the farthing, half-farthing and so on (see British coinage article). This is all rather much to put in a single sentence, and as it's discussed at British coinage, I've linked to there instead.

[edit] More Notes

Does anyone have any pictures of the £5 and £50 notes? I think the full currency set would be nice for this article :) Also, is the "Specimin" stamp on the notes required by law for all images depicting UK currency or just because the image is from another source? So next time i come across a 5 or 50 note (not bloody likely!) i'll try and get few pics to stick up here, unless anyone objects. -Benbread 10:46, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Please read http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/banknotes/reproducing_banknotes.htm
For Image:Bank Of England10.gif and Image:Bank Of England20.gif I went through the proper procedure and obtained permission to display them on Wikipedia (until 29 July) /wangi 11:02, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
Cool. Could you put them on Commons instead of en? --Chochopk 08:45, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Status table

Wouldn't it be nice if there's a usage/status table to explain the complex situation of all different pound sterling? This is not meant to replace the text completely, but to eliminate some by a condense table.

Attributes:

  • L – legal tender, L – non legal tender
  • W – widely circulates, R – rarely circulates (but sometimes seen), N – does not circulate
  • A – people accept it, F – few people accept it, M – most people accept it
English notes British coins Scottich notes N. Irish notes Manx £ Jersey £ Guernsey £ Gibraltar £ St. Helena £ Falkland Is. £
England, Wales LWA LWA LR? LR? L?? L?? L?? L?? L?? L??
Scotland L??* LWA L?? L?? L?? L?? L?? L?? L?? L??
N. Ireland LWA* LWA LR? LWA L?? L?? L?? L?? L?? L??
Isle of Man L??  ??? L?? L?? LW? L?? L?? L?? L?? L??
Jersey LW?†  ??? LW? L?? L?? LW? LW? L?? L?? L??
Guernsey L??  ??? L?? L?? L?? LW? LW? L?? L?? L??
Gibraltar L??  ??? L?? L?? L?? L?? L?? L?? L?? L??
St. Helena L??  ??? L?? L?? L?? L?? L?? L?? L?? L??
Falkland Is. L??  ??? L?? L?? L?? L?? L?? L?? L?? L??

*Bank of England notes of under five pounds value are legal tender. But such thing doesn't exist anymore
† See contradiction 1 below

Quotes from individual wiki articles

Laws of legal tender are uniquely complex in the UK. In England and Wales, banknotes issued by the Bank of England are legal tender, meaning that they should be accepted in payment of a debt. In Scotland and Northern Ireland, no banknotes are legal tender, and each bank which issues banknotes does so in the form of its own promissory notes. Scottish and Northern Irish notes are sometimes rejected by shops when used in England. Scottish and Northern Irish notes' designs are also different from the English notes' designs. Northern Irish notes may be printed by the Bank of Ireland — mistaken by many English shops for the former Irish Pound, even though they say "sterling" and are regularly accepted as such in Northern Ireland. Other Northern Irish Pound Sterling notes include those issued by the First Trust Bank, the Northern Bank and the Ulster Bank. The one pound coin also has many varied designs on the reverse side, which differ from year to year with new designs appearing; however, all of these are Royal Mint coins and of equivalent legality.
The nature of legal tender is even more restricted in Scotland — only Royal Mint coins are legal tender, and even then the use of smaller coins is limited (the five and ten pence coins are only legal tender to a value of five pounds, for example). However, one and two pound coins are legal tender to an indefinite amount. This was not always the case, as during World War II the Scottish banknotes were made legal tender by the Currency (Defence) Act 1939; this status was withdrawn on January 1, 1946.
To complicate matters further, some notes of the Bank of England were until recently legal tender in Scotland and Northern Ireland. This status only applied to notes under a value of five pounds, so following the withdrawal of the Bank of England one pound note in 1985, no circulating notes were covered by this clause.
All commonly circulating British coins are legal tender throughout the UK, as are the rarely seen five pound and twenty‐five pence ("crown") coins. Several gold coins issued by the Mint are still legal tender, though as they have a bullion value far greater than their face value they are never used in circulation and tend to be kept by collectors.
Gibraltar and the islands of Guernsey, Jersey, Saint Helena, the Falkland Islands and the Isle of Man, which are not part of the United Kingdom, also issue their own currencies, which are fixed to the value of sterling. None of the regional currencies are legal tender in England or in other regions (contradiction 1), but they are commonly accepted by large businesses and banks, or are sometimes accepted unknowingly — for example, many vending machines cannot distinguish between British coins and those from outside the UK. An exchange commission may be charged if used at a bank or a large business.
Bank of England notes are the only banknotes that are legal tender in England and Wales. Scottish, Northern Ireland, Jersey, Guernsey and Manx banknotes are not legal tender in England and Wales. However, they are not illegal under English law and creditors and traders may accept them if they so choose.
In Scotland and Northern Ireland no banknotes – not even ones issued in those constituent countries – are legal tender, although Bank of England one pound notes were when they existed: Bank of England notes of under five pounds value are legal tender. Scottish and Northern Irish notes are 'promissory notes', essentially cheques made out from the bank to 'the bearer', as the wording on each note says.
  • British coinage
Coins from British dependencies are sometimes found in change in other jurisdictions, but are not legal tender in the United Kingdom and tend not to be accepted by UK traders and banks. Since they have the same specifications as UK coins, they are sometimes tolerated in commerce, and can readily be used in vending machines.
In the United Kingdom, Manx notes and coins are generally not accepted, and travellers are advised to exchange them before leaving the island. Many banks and Bureaux de Change in the UK will convert Manx notes to British notes at no cost. To assist those travelling, the ATM machines at the Sea Terminal, Douglas, and at Ronaldsway Airport (IOM) both issue British notes only. The Manx coins do, however, sometimes creep into general UK circulation as they have identical size and shape to the corresponding UK coins.
Both Jersey notes and Bank of England notes are legal tender in Jersey and circulate together, alongside the Guernsey pound and Scottish banknotes. (contradiction 1)
The Guernsey pound, the pound sterling (including Scottish and Northern Irish notes) and the Jersey pound may be used in Guernsey.
The Guernsey pound is legal tender only in Guernsey, but also circulates freely in Jersey.
Since 1927, Gibraltar has issued its own banknotes and, since 1988, its own coins, although British coins and banknotes continue to circulate and are widely accepted.
Gibraltar notes are not legal tender in the UK, but are exchangable 1:1 for British notes.

See also

v • d • e
Types of British coinage
Falkland Islands · Gibraltar · Guernsey · Isle of Man · Jersey · St Helena and Ascension · United Kingdom
A friend of mine visited Northern Ireland, so I updated the table above. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 08:33, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] rarely_used_coins

When I designed the infobox, I intended this attribute to be used for coins that you can demand from a banks for their face value, even though they are rarely seen. Like US$2 and $1 coins, or for coins that are phasing out because of low value. But it was not intended for coins that for commemorative coins which the only way to obtain is to pay a premium. I'm not sure about 25p & £5. Can someone verify? --Chochopk 00:04, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

25p are obsolete - none have been minted in over 25 years, and you can't get them from a bank. You can get £5 coins from a bank for a time when a new commemorative issue is released. -- Arwel (talk) 02:30, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
For face value? --Chochopk 03:07, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
I would guess so as the £5 coin issued to commemorate the Queen's Golden Jubilee appears (albeit very infrequently) in general circulation. The [80th Birthday £5 coin] is currently for sale from the Royal mint for £5 face value. Of course, some vendors may apply a premium for presentation or packaging. --Bazza 08:31, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I've had two or three different £5 coins recieved in change as part of the general circulation. Shimgray | talk | 15:37, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I think the last 25p coin issued was in 1982 for the royal wedding of charles and diana. Its the old pre decimal "crown" denomination, and indeed was still referred to as a "commemerative crown". Though as said before they are obsolete and were replaced by the commemerative £5 coin. Bensonby 11:43, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Formatting glitch

The vertical alignment of the pound coin and £20 note graphics is wonky. These are supposed to be attached to the "Legal tender and regional issues" section, but when you show or hide the TOC, they jump about, overlaying other parts of the text, or leaving a spurious big white gap, or breaking in some other way. I don't know how to fix this... any ideas anyone? Matt 22:18, 31 July 2006 (UTC).

[edit] "Green pound"

I'm surprised to find that there is no article for the green pound that used to exist in the Common Agricultural Policy before the euro. Does anybody know enough about it to write one? --Red King 20:01, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Australia should adopt the pound.

I think Australia shoud adopt british pounds because they're worth more, buying a pint of soft drink costs $2.70AUD rather than just paying a pound.

[edit] £100 note

I removed the reference to a hundred pound note in the "rarely used" bracket. It does not exist, put it back in if yo0u can prove it does... see: [[3]] Bensonby 11:43, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

British banknotes#Scotland --Chochopk 11:53, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

ah, apologies... how could I forget the scots!? Bensonby 12:18, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Alternate Design

I might sound like a pratt, but when I learnt to draw the pound sign, it looked something like this[4]. Now, have I either just learnt it wrong? (most likely) Or is this actually an alternate style, that is simply outdated? Help plz 01:16, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] plural

The plural of sterling is sterling correct? One would never say 5 pound sterlings, right? If so this should go in the article. -Ravedave (help name my baby) 22:37, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

"A sterling" isn't used on its own anyway. It's always "pound sterling", whose plural is "pounds sterling". Bazza 13:16, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
How can this be worked into the article? Not all of us yanks know how to say it properly. ;)-Ravedave (help name my baby) 15:00, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
It's the same principle as "courts martial". I've added it to the introduction. I've also clarified the usage of "sterling" on its own. Bazza 13:08, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "the oldest currency in use"

This claim is incredibly bold considering no citation is provided. I will remove it in a few days unless we can find something. —anskas 21:32, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm no medieval currency expert, but consider Russian, Swedish and other Scandinavian currencies. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 23:04, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Principle of quoting exchange rate on an arbitrary date

A table has been added to the article, giving the exchange rates as at an arbitrary date.

IMO, it is not a good idea in principle to quote exchange rates as at some arbitrary date. It is not sustainable and not encylopedic. An annual average is far more useful.

  • It is not sustainable because it is unrealistic to expect that it will be revised for all currencies every day. Anyone who needs to know the actual daily rate will use a reliable source like XE.COM or OANDA.COM
  • It is not encyclopedic because, by capturing the rate on an arbitrary date, no useful understanding of long term price is conveyed to the reader.

The historical exchange rates (since 1990) that are given in Exchange rates section of the Economy of the United Kingdom entry, are far more useful. Spikes are smoothed and the reader gets a far better idea of the relative prices and how they move over time. It only needs to be updated once a year and the exact date is not critical.

To discuss, please use template talk:Exchange Rate --Red King 16:42, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Printer

I'm not sure if these banks are really the printer. The article of De La Rue says De la Rue prints notes for Bank of England, the Royal Bank of Scotland, Bank of Scotland, and the Isle of Man Government. If that is true, shouldn't we eliminate those from the infobox? --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 10:20, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Conspiracy theories

I deleted the wonderful statement Despite the collapse, the country's monetary authorities have chosen to continue to strengthen the pound's relative price. Evidence of this can be found in the reserves section of the Pink Book, the official Balance of Payments. . This is a really basic error of economics. For details, see Central bank#Limits of enforcement power "Since most Western economies are now considered "open", this essentially means that central banks may target interest rates or exchange rates with credibility, but not both at once." The Bank of England has an inflation rate target, which it controls using interest rates. The exchange rate is a side-effect of this policy, not its purpose. Investors choose to hold deposits in pounds because they get a better interest rate and they believe that the value of their money will not be lost. This demand pushes up the price of the pound on the markets. --Red King 21:26, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Darwin on the 10 pound note

Hi, I am from Russia. Recently, in a debate over Darwinism/Creationism, a creationist mentioned that Darwin's image is to be removed from the 10 pound bill because some officials decided that he is a disgrace to Britain, for his theory was proven false. Personally, I think it is a lie. I searched the web and failed to find any mention about that. None the less, I would like to ask the experts, if it is at least partly (even for the smallest part) true? ru:User:Alexei Kouprianov/User:Alexei Kouprianov. PS Sorry I have no time to log in. 83.149.3.147 18:34, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Hello from Russia. UK banknotes change from time to time - the next change is the £20 note[[5]]. There is no plan announced here (UK) about replacing the £10 note as well. New banknotes are very expensive to design and undergo lots of research to make sure they are fit for purpose. There has never been a case here of a note being completely withdrawn just because someone did not like the design. From the Bank of England site: Who decides who the historical figure should be on the back of a new note? It is the Governor who makes the final decision. The Bank have celebrated the lives of eminent British personalities on the back of their notes since 1970. It is usual practice to consider a number of probable candidates all of whom have been selected because of their indisputable contribution to their particular field of work and about whom there exists sufficient material on which to base a banknote design. Bazza 13:30, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, that's more than I need. I suspected that the whole thing about replacing Darwin is some sort of a hoax. Alexei Kouprianov 13:56, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
The Darwin £10 is the second design of this denomination in Series E, and was introduced in November 2000. The Bank of England tends to change the design of its banknotes every 8 - 12 years. The first denomination of the new Series F, the £20, is scheduled to be released this coming spring, and judging from the experience of Series D and Series E I would expect a new £10 note to be introduced in 2 to 4 years' time. -- Arwel (talk) 23:42, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Laws of legal tender are uniquely complex in the UK

"Uniquely" means that no other country has complex legal tender laws, is this true? --jmb 11:54, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Origin of "quid"

I have deleted the statement that quid derives from 'quid pro quo'. There is no evidence, to the best of my knowledge, that there is any connection and in my opinion it is highly unlikely that popular slang would derive from Latin (though not impossible). My own dictionary and Wictionary agree that the origin of 'quid' is unknown. My own suspicion is that the origin may be somehow connected indirectly with the word 'guinea', seeing as quid was used previously for guinea. And do we need to include other slang for pound: nicker, sovereign and sov come to mind? Emeraude 16:42, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

would be great to find out where 'quid' comes from. I've not heard sovereign or sov as slang for pounds - where is this used? In the south east of England some old boys used to refer to 50p as "half a bar" though. --82.133.79.7 11:43, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Scottish Bank Notes

Should there be a mention that the one pound bank note is still in use in Scotland? If it is in the article then I must have missed it. --jmb 01:48, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

  • By the way, is it "bank note", "bank-note" or "banknote"? The OED has "bank-note" --jmb 01:48, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Regarding Scottish £1 note, see Banknotes of the pound sterling. --ChoChoPK (球球PK) (talk | contrib) 06:20, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
I just wondered whether a brief comment should be incorporated into the discussion on coins and notes. --jmb 10:31, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] World War II debt to USA

This was finally paid off in the 2006-07 financial year and the intriguing back-story explained in some detail in the BBC documentary Mortgaged to the Yanks. I am unable to cite written sources, so I will leave the editing of the main article to those who can. EatYerGreens 20:48, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

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