Talk:Poultry
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Discussion moved from user pages re categorisation of, interalia, Phasianidae, Anatidae and Dove.
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[edit] Reverted today
an anonymous user changed the bottom paragraph relating to different cuts of meat. It related dark meat and it's higher muscle mass to that of African-Americans and their ability to flee from the police better.
[edit] What's happened to geese?
Are geese a type of poultry or not. They have been domesticated since ancient times (Geese saved Rome from Celtic invasion). I suggest they be included.
Regards
John D. Croft 17:04, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
- I wouldn't categorize geese as being the first thing that comes to mind when we think of poultry. I'm going to try and find a different picture of an actual chicken to place on there. It makes sense.--WaltCip 14:00, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
I've reverted several of your category additions. Poultry refers to domesticated birds, and is appropriate for say Chicken or Helmeted Guineafowl, but not for eg Phasianidae. Most birds in this large family are never domesticated, and many are rare, protected or little known, like the Himalayan pheasants. jimfbleak 05:17, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
- Hi, here's the reason for inclusion of pheasant, from the opening two paragraphs of the poultry article itself:
- Poultry is the class of domesticated fowl (birds) used for food or for their eggs. These most typically are members of the orders Galliformes (such as chickens and turkeys), and Anseriformes (waterfowl such as ducks and geese).
- The word poultry is often used to refer to the meat of these birds. In a more general sense, it may refer to the meat of other birds, such as pigeons or doves, or game birds like pheasants.
- I have seen pheasant in markets at various times; the pheasant is definitely involved in the poultry industry. --McDogm 15:15, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
- Much more than pheasants, doves are poultry. In the middle east, including Egypt, the dove is the main domesticated bird used for food. Have you read Lawrence Durrell's Alexandria Quartet? The dove industry is featured, as a universal presence in Durrell's Egypt. One recurring image is that of the doves which, having escaped from their cage in the market, don't escape or fly away but just stay there where the cage broke. I really hope you reinstate pheasant and especially dove. The two species are eaten every day around the world. More specifically, doves are very heavily domesticated and should not have been removed from the list in the first place. Thanks for reading. --McDogm 15:21, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
The point I was trying to make was that individual species like Common Pheasant can appropopriately be classed as poultry, but not the Phasianidae family as a whole. I've never heard of anyone in the west at least eating any other of the many pheasant species, and some are extremely rare and difficult to find.
Similarly with dove. I would accept that say Wood Pigeon, Turtle Dove and some others might be classed as poultry, but not all 300-odd species. If you know the African species, cat that, and I have no problem, but I do have a problem with all members of the pheasant/dove/ducks, geese and swan families being so labelled when only a handful are verifiably actually used as poultry. jimfbleak 17:12, 10 July 2005 (UTC)
Looking again at your note on my talk page, I think the confusion is between the species and the family. Pheasant is commonly used to refer to the widely eaten and very tasty Common Pheasant, but the Pheasant article refers to the whole family - similarly with dove, only more so.
- The thing of it is, that because pheasants are poultry, and because pheasants are phasinadae, then logically phasinidae are closely linked to poultry. Rhetorically, is not the article birds included in the poultry category?--McDogm 05:32, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
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- And since birds are vertebrates then all vertebrates are poultry.... ok, do you see the flaw in your logic? Poultry refers to specific birds that are prepared, cooked and eaten. Individual bird species should be tagged as poultry, and if a higher order (genus or larger) contains only birds tagged as poultry, then that higher grouping may also be tagged as such. If the higher grouping includes species that are not poultry, then that higher grouping should not be tagged as poultry. - UtherSRG 13:17, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
Come in a bit late on this one - to add to the above, 'poultry' is domesticated, farmed birds only, not gamebirds - so Wood Pigeon (a gamebird) and Turtle Dove are not poultry, but Rock Dove (in respect of domestic pigeons) is poultry. Common Pheasant is farmed, but other pheasant species are not, so aren't poultry. - MPF 23:37, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
Ive moved duck to domesticated duck.
Ive added goose but I dont know that much about them so could someone else fill it in?
- I would have thought that domesticated geese in the west are derived from Greylag Goose, and in the east from Swan Goose jimfbleak 18:53, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
[edit] diet section?
Why the section on diet in the chart? All four birds have the same items listed, and they are thoroughly unclear: is a seed not part of a plant? Does this particularly refer to leafy plant matter? And what is the diet of the modern mass-produced chicken (a large percentage of the global chicken population)? Not insects or leafy plants, or even seeds, unless soybeans be included in that category. Do we include cattle in the chicken diet? I don't know enough to say, but I think that a minority of American chickens are raised on diets free of livestock parts.
I suggest that the diet section be removed until it can be cleaned up. --Zachbe 15:27, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Discrepancy on chickens in the chart
In the chart of "Types of Poultry" for chickens, the "Domestication" columns states that chickens were domesticated in China in 3000 BC. However, in the article for Red Junglefowl, it states that chickens were domesticated from the Red Junglefowl in India. So which is it? These two articles appear to conflict.
[edit] Vandalism
Someone changed the names of types of poultry to those of several politicians. The whole thing is not only stupid but also offensive with sick racist overtones. Whoever is in charge of this, please revert.70.118.242.240 23:23, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
