Talk:Potters Bar rail crash

The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Potters Bar derailment → Potters Bar rail crash — According to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (events), articles should use the common name of an event if there is one. A Google search for "Potters Bar rail crash" returns 12,100 results whilst "Potters Bar derailment" returns only 1,140. Admin assistance required as new page name is currently a redirect. Adambro 19:02, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Survey

Add  # '''Support'''  or  # '''Oppose'''  on a new line in the appropriate section followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~~~~. Please remember that this survey is not a vote, and please provide an explanation for your recommendation.

[edit] Survey - in support of the move

1. Support. The move to derailment was made after the Grayrigg derailment page was moved from Grayrigg train crash by the same editor without prior discussion on either page. He cited a weak claim in the edit summary as follows: moved Grayrigg rail crash to Grayrigg derailment: "crash" implies one vehicle hitting another. This page was Potters Bar train crash and then moved by the same editor minutes later. However, the Hatfield rail crash (another derailment) hasn't been moved as of when I posted this, and nor should it be. Lugnuts 22:08, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
2. Support. As discussed on the Grayrigg train crash page, the standard naming convention is to use (quote): "..a particular common name for the event ... even if it implies a controversial point of view", and that "The spirit of these guidelines is to favour familiar terms used to identify the event." In view of this, it is clear that the term "rail crash" has been significantly favoured in common parlance. As regards the point that the above convention applies solely to 'controversial' events - the overall principle outlined in the root of the naming conventions section at WP:NAME is: "Generally, article naming should prefer to what the majority of English speakers would most easily recognize, with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity, while at the same time making linking to those articles easy and second nature. This is justified by the following principle: Names of Wikipedia articles should be optimized for readers over editors; and for a general audience over specialists. The preceding would also seem to address and resolve the argument made by the editor that terms like "crash" are not what industry officials may use. - HTUK 01:54, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Survey - in opposition to the move

1. It's clear from the first page of those search results that "...derailment" is the title used in all the formal reports and by official bodies. Andy Mabbett 19:44, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion

The article you cite appears to be concerned with the uncontroversial naming of "events and activities such as military conflicts and terrorist incidents", such as "bombing " vs "massacre" or "terrorist outrage"; not the accurate naming of events whose name is politically uncontroversial. Andy Mabbett 19:52, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

As per my comment above, note that WP:NAME states: "Generally, article naming should prefer to what the majority of English speakers would most easily recognize, with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity, while at the same time making linking to those articles easy and second nature. This is justified by the following principle: Names of Wikipedia articles should be optimized for readers over editors; and for a general audience over specialists. - HTUK 01:53, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

"...derailment" would seem to meet all of those criteria, particularly ...ambiguity. Andy Mabbett 09:39, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Even though the train derailed, it eventually crashed into the station. Whilst i am in support if this does move, wouldn't it make more sense to put this as "Potters Bar railway accident"? Simply south 23:49, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.