Talk:Portuguese verb conjugation

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[edit] Closed deletion listing

This article was listed for deletion on 10 April 2005. The discussion was closed with the result of keep. This article will not be deleted. You can view the discussion, which is no longer live: Wikipedia:Votes_for_deletion/Portuguese_verb_conjugation. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 15:08, 24 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Move

I suggest that this should be moved to Portuguese conjugation. "Portuguese verb conjugation" is redundant. — Chameleon 08:25, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Haver, ter, ser, etc.

Is there any real need to list the conjugations of so many verbs? Any online conjugator will provide them. In my opinion, the entry should focus on general conjugation paradigms, and on the singularities of Portuguese with respect to other languages. By the way, I also see no need to explain notions like 'infinitive' or 'subjunctive' here. There are specific entries in the Wikipedia for them.

There are specific articles in the Wikipedia about e.g. Spanish and French verbs that include far more detailed/extensive conjugation tables than their Portuguese counterpart. Contrary to what you propose, I believe the article should be actually expanded, rather than trimmed down. 161.24.19.82 17:21, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
For a comprehensive overview of Portuguese verb conjugation, I suggest dividing the article into 4 sections:
  1. Strictly regular verbs (model conjugations: falar, bater, partir) plus (regular) vowel-alternating verbs of the first, second and third conjugations (model conjugations: apostar/acertar; comer/meter; dormir/ferir; Note: show IPA transcription for vowel-alternating verbs).
  2. Anomalous or otherwise highly irregular verbs: ser, estar, ter, haver; pôr, ver, vir; querer, fazer, dizer, saber, trazer, caber, poder, dar, and their compounds.
  3. Verbs with irregularities in the present tense only: perder; medir; pedir; ouvir; valer; frigir; subir (sumir, sacudir, acudir, bulir, fugir, cuspir,consumir); agredir (prevenir, denegrir, progredir, regredir, transgredir); odiar (mediar, ansiar, incendiar); destruir (construir); ler (crer); sair (cair, rir); incluir (and other -uir verbs except destruir/construir); frear (and other -ear verbs), etc...
  4. Otherwise regular verbs with irregular past participles only (e.g. escrever, abrir, cobrir) or with two past participle forms, respectively regular and irregular (e.g. prender, acender, suspender, imprimir, eleger, morrer, aceitar, entregar, pagar, ganhar, pegar, gastar, etc...).
Mbruno 14:21, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vowel Alternation in Portuguese

The issue of vowel alternation in Portuguese present indicative verb forms has not been sufficiently emphasized in the article. For example, one cannot simply list a conjugation table for "comer" and ignore that the stressed "o" is pronounced differently in "como" (closed, high-mid ?) and in "comes/come/comem" (open, low-mid ?). Likewise, in many 3rd conjugation verbs with "o" or "e" in the stem (e.g. "dormir", "cobrir", "ferir", etc...), there is a regular vowel change pattern (compare e.g. the pronunciation of "durmo/dormimos/dormis" with the pronunciation of "dormes/dorme/dormem"). Those vowel alternations are fully grammaticalized in Portuguese and an important feature of the language that applies also to noun and adjective morphology (contrast e.g. the pronunciation of "ovo" and "ovos" or "novo" vs "nova/novos").

I would add that the IPA transcription of "absorvemos" and "absorveis" in the article is IMHO wrong. At least in Brazil, we pronounce both "absorvo" and "absorvemos" with a closed (high-mid) unstressed "o" in the root. "Absorve" and "absorvem" on the other hand have an open (low-mid) "o". 13:49, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
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