Talk:Pontifical High Mass

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[edit] Query

Isn't a pontifical high mass a mass celebrated by any primate or patriarch? Fishhead64 22:23, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

Eastern Churches don't really use the "high" and "low" distinction, and wouldn't typically call the Liturgy "Mass" either. If I understand your question, the answer is that I think this is a fairly distinct western phrase. Gimmetrow 23:00, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

The Eastern Churches, in fact, do draw the distinction [between pontifical and non-pontifical Mass -ed], but refer to the equivalent as "Hierarchical Divine Liturgy." It, too, has its own unique ceremonies given the presence of a bishop/metropolitan.patriarch, or many of the same.HarvardOxon 02:54, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

In the Anglo-Catholic version of the Anglican tradition, in any event, I have attended masses celebrated by metropolitans and a primate which were designated "pontifical high masses," which is why I ask. Fishhead64 04:06, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

The article is about a form of Tridentine Mass. The 1970 reform of the Roman Missal abolished the cut-and-dried distinction between High Mass and Low Mass. So if the word "high" is removed from Fishhead's question and "Latin" added ("Isn't a pontifical mass a mass celebrated by any Latin primate or patriarch?"), the present-day answer is: "Yes, even if the bishop celebrating the Mass does not have the rank of primate or patriarch." (I presume Fishhead is not asking about Anglican practice, which he knows best.) Lima 15:45, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

And thus the trouble with synonymous expressions. I pulled out my Ritual Notes and there was a whole section on the ceremonial associated with a "pontifical high mass" in the Anglican tradition, in this case referrring to a mass celebrated by a diocesan, metropolitan, or primate from his/her throne. Given the current ambiguous title of the article, I felt it was appropriate to append a brief explanation of this alternative use of the expression. Fishhead64 16:07, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What are you guys doing?

Why did someone remove Eastern rite from the pic comment? Please don't remove, if you don't know a thing aobut the subject.Smith2006 10:26, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Gimmetrow simplified on the grounds that the ordinary reader would be unable to "note" the presence of Eastern-rite clergy in the picture. Smith2006, who claims to "know a thing about the subject", implies that he can easily distinguish the Easterners from the Latins in the picture (can he really? - by the way, I can, being in almost daily contact with Eastern-rite clergy, and so I suppose I do know some little thing about it); but the article must take into account readers who in Smith2006's judgement "don't know a thing about the subject". I agree with Gimmetrow. Lima 12:56, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that was my reason. If you want to add text explaining what identifies the Easterns in the picture, that would be fine (at least in this article, where it fits); my attempts to do that made the caption too long. Gimmetrow 13:50, 26 June 2006 (UTC)