Talk:Pomegranate

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[edit] Lythraceae or Punicaceae

Dear Author of the article on Pomegranate

The Wikipedia article on Punica granatum mentions recent evidence due to which Punica granatum has been reverted to Lythraceae from its original family Punicaceae. It will help if this recent evidence could beeither cited or a specific reference or authority for the same is also given. To my understanding, Punicaceae family has been a long recognized taxonomic entity with aspecial status that it is a monogeneric family in having just a single Genus, Punica.

I am interested in pomegranates as a subject of study for biodiversity and biosystematics aspects, and I will greatly appreciate any inputs on these aspects of pomegranates. Hence this query as above about reference for the "genetic evidence" that was mentioned.

Shirish A. Ranade, Scientist, NBRI, Lucknow 226001. India (E-mail: removed) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 194.94.136.34 (talk • contribs) 09:09, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

I've added some referenced material to articles Punica and Lythraceae. I think the references discuss the specific evidence used. Melchoir 19:26, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] chinese apple?

Dont some people refer to this fruit as a chinese apple? I know arizona sells pomegranate tea and under pomegranate it says "chinese apple" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Krappie (talk • contribs) 08:42, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Yep, my Italian side of the family in Brooklyn all calls them chinese apples too. They have no idea why. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 199.43.32.86 (talk • contribs) 13:32, 7 October 2005 (UTC)
I have heard them refered to as persian apples also. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.83.48.21 (talk • contribs) 02:09, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Granada

I'm a bit doubtful of the assertion that Granada was named after the fruit. Pomegranates are called "Rumman" in Arabic. If it was named after the fruit, it would be called Rummana not Ghurnata (Granada's arabic name). HiJazzey 11:17, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Well, "granada" is the word for pomegranate in Spanish. Maybe that should be clarified in the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.217.230.106 (talk • contribs) 16:40, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

Granada is the name of the fruit in Spanish and the pomegranate is on the heraldic shield of the city according to the Granada article in the Wikipedia. But the name of the city in Arabic given there is (Arabic غرناطة Ġarnāṭah). I think the belief that the city comes from the name of the fruit is probably a Folk etymology. Curiously, there is one for another city in Spain, Leon, which is commonly believed to come from the identical Spanish word for Lion, but in fact comes from Legionis, or legion, as in Roman legion. If I was 100% sure, I'd edit it out myself, but if someone has a source for the Arabic name, please do so. I suspect it's probably in Corominas Spanish etymological dictionary, but I can't be sure, and don't have access to it at the moment. mnewmanqc —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mnewmanqc (talk • contribs) 16:59, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

I do not know if this is relevant, but the hebrew word for pomegranate, pronounced Ree-Moan (emphasis on the moan) also means grenade. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.106.110.148 (talk • contribs) 04:15, 20 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Roma?

"In Portuguese, its name is romã, from Latin (mala) romana, meaning roman (apple)." Arabic rummân sounds like a far more plausible source. Anyone have a reliable Portuguese etymological dictionary? - Mustafaa 17:29, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Folk Etymology

The derivation of "pommie" from "pomegranate" is Folk etymology. The OED has "pommie" as "derivation unknown". Mikeplokta 18:58, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] deciduous/delicious

while the pomegranate may be delicious, the word at the beginning of the article was deciduous. this was not a typo.--Alhutch 15:29, 6 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Recent changes to 'Greek Mythology' Section

This is my first edit to a Wikipedia entry and since I really don't want to step on anybody's toes, here's what revisions I've made and my reasoning behind them.

Removed comment about the Isis/Osiris myth. No relationship to pomegranates shown

Removed statement about Mycenaean goddess and her relationship to the Persephone myth because statement is too subjective; should be cited

Removed Redundancy about the origins and cultivation of pomegranates and unrelated statement about Ishtar/Cybele

Fixed improper capitalization of the word ‘goddess’

Rearranged a few sentences to keep information about different myths together

Used this quote “In her hand she may bear the pomegranate, emblem of fertile blood and death and a substitute for the narcotic capsule of the opium poppy (Ruck and Staples 1994).” From the Hera entry to replace “According to mythographers Carl A.P. Ruck and Danny Staples, the chambered pomegranate is also a surrogate for the poppy's narcotic capsule, with its comparable shape and chambered interior.”

Removed a few "peacock terms"

Moved comment about Mary out of the ‘Greek Mythology’ section

Removed statements about “Mother Goddess” and “Triple Goddess” as they appear to reference the neo-pagan concept of Deity and not any particular Greek myth including pomegranates

Overall, attempted to give the section a more appropriate tone for an encyclopedia. I felt that the orginal text had too much bias and too much information that should have been either removed or cited. (Anonymously contributed, 02:27, 13 November 2005, by User:24.247.68.200.)

It's still a bit muddled. I espedially don't understand this sentence:
Indeed, in the Orion story we hear that Hera cast pomegranate-Side into dim Erebus — "for daring to rival Hera's beauty", which forms the probable point of connection with the older Osiris/Isis story.
"cast pomegranate-Side into" should that be "pomegranate seed"? MKV 02:23, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
"The Titan Orion was represented as "marrying" Side, a name that in Boeotia means "pomegranate", thus consecrating the primal hunter to the Goddess." That sentence comes earlier in the paragraph. The "probable point of connection with the older Osiris/Isis story" is simply a bridge to text that immediately follows. --Wetman 07:40, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Edits

  • Pomegranate is a shrub, not a species of shrub. The species is Punica.
  • Removed "

The fruit is typically in season from September to November in the Northern Hemisphere, or March to May in the Southern Hemisphere." Pointless local boosterism, unless some factual statement can be offered.

  • etymology: pomum + granatum = "seed-apple" not "grainy". I also shifted a sentence for continuity of thought.
  • In China: added possibility of the Silk Road; dropped unnecessary "assuming the pomegranate was not native to the Pacific coast"
  • So America: whyu the missionaries particularly? "during the 1700-1800's" is oddly late (a random guess?)
  • " As far as pomegranate extracts go, however, it may be advisable to stick with ingredients standardized to native constituents, as these are absorbed into the body, and have benefits backed by clinical research." Removed: Wikipedia does not give medical advice.
  • Symbolism: I have eliminated the introduced sub-sections artificially dividing Hebrew and Greek
  • Persephone: the "six months" are a deeply founded error, but apparently they can't be stopped. The Greek year was divided in three seasons. Oh well....

The rest are Englishing and requests for sources. --Wetman 02:07, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Other mythology

This is a total cop-out on my part, but I would recommend including more on the pomegranate in Persian and Indian culture and mythology/symbolism/religion (as opposed to the presently unbalanced examples from the occidental traditions). I know I've come across the pomegranate many, many times but have nothing to cite at this moment off the top of my head. Just a suggestion if anyone's interested (and if not I hope I remember this article the next time I come across a specific verse of scripture, etc.). One thing I can direct the reader's kindly attention to, is the Pakistani version of the ill-fated lovers (e.g. Romeo and Juliette, Tristan and Iseult, Layla wa Majnun, etc.): the legend of Anarkali. Khirad 23:45, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good idea to me. The "Pomegranates and symbolism" is a good section but it is very heavily weighted towards the Ancient Greeks. Nunquam Dormio 09:25, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
One-sided articles are always improved with additions. But the subject is pomegranate,. --Wetman 08:56, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Estrogen?

The pomegranate seeds are reputed to be high in estrone content (see the Greenbush page/http://www.greenbush.net/morthanyouev.html). I have not been able to confirm that claim. Any input? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.228.228.134 (talk • contribs) 05:47, 19 November 2004 (UTC)

I saw a post somewhere that said pomogranate was high in plant estrogens. Anyone know anything about this? --Gbleem 19:17, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cancer citation

The citations for #5 on references should be changed to the actual scientific studies, and not the media reports on those studies. thanks

I've separated and improved these refs: they're now #5 and #6. Haven't got the time to follow to the source. Nunquam Dormio 08:55, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mistaken Revert

Whoops, reverted the wrong way, somehow got my diffs messed up. Thanks to the person who fixed my mistaken fix :). MKV 01:00, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] number of seeds Persephone ate...

I always thought that Persephone ate SEVEN pomegranate seeds... The association between 6 seeds and 6 months seems to be an ethnic myth. Greek growing seasons are not the same as nothern Europe. High summer is seens as a dead season where nothing grows. This was when Persephone spent her time with Pluton in Hades.

[edit] Question about symbolism

I read on the Italian wiki at http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madonna_del_parto_(Piero_della_Francesca) (sorry, in Italian only, there's no cross-link...) that the pomegranate is also a symbol for the Passion of Christ. Can anyone confirm? If so, can anyone update the section? I'm no native English-speaker...

[edit] Pomegranate Juice May Clear Clogged Arteries

http://www.webmd.com/content/article/102/106690.htm Crocoite 22:40, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tree

Anyone else having trouble seeing the picture of the pomegranate tree in the cultivation section? No matter what I do I can't seem to view it, even out of the Pomegranate page. WLU 17:33, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Categories

In my opinion, some of the following categories recently added are a bit much - the article is about pomegranates in general, not specifically their use in religious services. I'd like others opinions on the following:

  • Category:Christian liturgy, rites, and worship services remove
  • Category:Eastern Orthodoxy remove
  • Category:Death customs remove
  • Category:Religious objects keep

What do others think? All this aside, I can't say I'm familiar enough with categories yet to be 100% certain. WLU 16:30, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

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