Talk:Polyvinyl chloride
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Sorry for the bad ASCII "drawings". I'll try and improve that in a while ;)
Should mention phthalates controversy.
Lest this page be forever alternately edited by User:Daniel C. Boyer and User:Maximus Rex, adding and removing the "Pipe Dreams" link, I am (perhaps ill-advisedly) registering my opinion.
- I agree with MR that a material is not notable simply because it has been used as artistic medium; and PVC's notability is certainly not for its role as an artistic medium (unlike, say, paint or bronze). So I am disinclined towards noting PVC's use in art within the article. If we were to list all the applications in which PVC is used at least as much as it is within art, we would have a very long list.
- However, the "Pipe Dreams" link is an interesting 'squirty' link that is tangentially related to PVC. Someone looking for more information on PVC itself would not want to follow it, but someone merely browsing might very much want to follow it. It was not appropriate (as was originally the case) as the only "PVC-related" external link, but it might be appropriate as an interesting link among several links more intrinsically related to PVC, as could happen now.
- However, DCB's personal involvement with the "Pipe Dreams" exhibition makes his repetitive restoration of the link rather akin to self-promotion, so even if the "Pipe Dreams" link belongs here, it is unclear that he should be the one to put it here.
- It may be appropriate to conduct a straw poll to gain a more broad-based sense of whether the link belongs here.
Shimmin 20:29, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)
I changed the atomic structure as none hydrogen ions are conventionally drawn at the bottom
[edit] Dangers
perhaps this section should be titled "Alleged Dangers" of PVC? --Discordian 00:47, Apr 9, 2005 (UTC)
"Health and Safety" - nice choice. --Discordian 13:10, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)
[edit] 1835 or 1838?
When did Henri whatsisname find white stuff floating in his flask of vinyl chloride? Anyone have references on the matter? There seems to be a disagreement between the websites I'm finding; hopefully someone will have an authoritative book on their shelf.--Joel 02:45, 29 September 2005 (UTC) help
[edit] Lead in PVC?
I've heard reports of lead leaching from PVC.
Should these be added, and does anyone else have independant verification?
User:Orange & Viridian 2/15/06 11:11 am
- Aside from the word "plumbing", I've never heard of a link between PVC and lead. Dioxin, maybe, but not lead. --Joel 19:17, 15 February 2006 (UTC)
- I have seen a warning poster about lead in some vinyl lunchboxes. Also, some electrical cords (probably insulated with PVC) have a warning label about lead, but I am not sure if the lead is in the plastic or as the metal in part of the wire. Also, the cadmium page notes that some cadmium compounds are added to PVC. Anyone have more info. on this? --24.16.148.75 23:02, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Lead is widely used as a stabilizer for the PVC insulation around romex, extension cords, Christmas lights and other electrical conductors. It is not well bound to the polymer and hence can be released in dust over time.
Lead is also used as a stabilizer in other PVC applications - Tom Lent 17:00, 21 September 2006 (UTC) (guess i should post this, eh?
[edit] Where are the good points of PVC?
I came to this page because I wanted to find information about the ways PVC is used. Instead, I found an article almost totally devoted to the (possible) health problems of PVC. This could well be useful, but I wish someone would explain why PVC is used before explaining why it shouldn't be used. -- Eric-Albert 23:42, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Dangers vs. Uses
I agree with Eric-Albert. Although information about dangers is useful and necessary, I was looking for uses.
Concur. Environmentalist POV. The dangers section is longer than the uses section for the second most widely used plastic on earth. 59.94.139.28 13:10, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
[edit] PVC vs. UPVC & RPVC vs. FPVC
It should definantly be noted somewhere in this article that the plasticizers which may leach out of some PVC products is only used in UPVC (aka FPVC, flexible pvc, ect.) The purpose of the plasticizers is to make the PVC flexible, like polyethylene. Rigid PVC (used for cold water piping in many homes, construction etc.,) containes no plasticizers becuase it is a product that must remain rigid. With all the health concerns this article mentions it is really essential to make this designation.
I would change it myself but I am not sure where to put this information. It seems to me like it should be in the beggining of the article, but it could be placed at the start of the health concerns sub-topic. CoolMike 17:43, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
UPVC stands for "Unplasticized" PVC. It would help to distinguish PVC types with plasticizers and those without; I'm confused as it seems that unplasticized PVC is the type which does contain plasticizers which seems back to front. EdDavies 12:38, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
I'm glad you mentioned my earlyer error Ed. Somehow I had mixed up the two over the course of writting my comments. UPVC indeed stands for unplasticized PVC, and is the same as Rigid PVC, while FPVC stands for flexible PVC and is the type which contains the large amount of plasticizers. CoolMike 14:51, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
I made a distinction in the article after the environmental point is mentioned.Stu42 17:43, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Uses of PVC
I have a classroom text used to introduce engineers to plastics engineering that lists many common products that are frequently made of PVC...Those folks who talked about uses of pvc, would you find this information usefull? Very few products are made out of only one material, so it would just be a general guide. CoolMike 17:43, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Unrecyclable?
That raised an eyebrow for me. I work at a UPVC pipe fitting plant and all leftover / loose pieces are sent back to be reground and repressed, with the exception of those that have chemical defects. It seems to me that the biggest reason PVC (piping, at least) isn't recycled would be that once you install PVC plumbing, you rarely ever take it back out. At the very least, PVC can be recycled. Since the Greenpeace claim has been uncited for about a month now, i'll take it down in a few days if no one disagrees. SReynhout 20:03, 20 August 2006 (UTC)
- Not so much unrecyclable as difficult to recycle I should think. Widespread infrastructure does not exist (in the US), and PVC is very much a different beast from HDPE/LDPE(, PS and PETE). Offhand I'd think PVC is closer to polycarbonate which is diffcult to recycle itself. --Belg4mit 03:16, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
- I thought the main problem was, that PVC was mixed up with other chemicals (plastifiers, etc.) to make it easy to handle. If yuo have one 'type' of PVC, there is no problem, but if you mix all the 'different PVC's' you get to something that is almost impossible to handle. I think that is saw in NL a scheme where they ground old PVC (all sorts of it), and made it into a solid form, and used it for things that would not need a high-quality plastic, and also would not need replacement for the next so many years. So, I do agree, it can be recycled, reword to 'difficult to recycle', and give some (preferably referenced) reasons? --Dirk Beetstra T C 07:36, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
I have gone ahead and removed statement that Greenpeace says that PVC is unrecyclable. The statement that PVC can not be recycled is rediculous. PVC is a thermoplastic, meaning when subjected to heat it softens, and can be reformed to make usefull products. It is a common practice to compound PVC in a twin screw extruder, then pellatize the PVC and use those pellets in a secondary extrusion opperation to make finished gooods. When getting information from a special interest group such as greenpeace one must take into account their bias towards advancing their own agenda. In this case the mis-information was so far from reality that I see no option but to delete the statement. Thanks. CoolMike 15:10, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] the batch
as well i want to make a trial on a pvc cast for my sculpture project. is there any simple list of media that i can use to make a media such a media for vinyl toys that increase lately...
please send me an email if theres somebody know about it
mail me at budiadinugroho@yahoo.com
thx alot
[edit] Advantages and Disadvantages
This is pretty much standard on all the other polymer pages but I must of just lucked out. Can you guys please put an advantages and disadvantages section up, lots of school kids like myself will be looking at this and I want them to not have to go searching in other places like myself. 211.31.112.16 23:51, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Link to lists of cancer clusters
Is there any reason that a link to lists of cancer clusters should be at the see also section of this page? I didn't see any reference to cancer clusters in the article... Will delete it after a second search through the text on the grounds that it has no real connection to the article. Feedback would be appreciated. CoolMike 01:14, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Statistics
I am currently doing a lot of research intp PVC, and the statistics in this properties table seem to vary significantly to other sources; I have found that the properties of PVC do vary depending upon the small amount of plasticisers added, but who knows where these stated properties are taken from?
[edit] Blue Man Group?
I can find no reason for a link to the Blue Man Group in the See Also section. I'm removing it. It can be put back if it's supose to be there. I'm putting it here: * [[Blue Man Group]] SadanYagci 02:33, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] References for PVC properties
Could whoever put the properties of PVC on this page give the reference for where they took that information from? At the moment it looks like those numbers were pulled out of the air, excluding the last one, and I don't believe there's any policy that says physical and chemical properties shouldn't be properly referenced like any other highly specific detail in an article. 58.168.115.92 05:23, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
