Talk:Polynesian mythology

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Note: polynesian mythology is complex and does vary from region to region. Much has been lost because of contact with missionaries et al. Probably the most intact mythology is that of the Maori of New Zealand. Te Rangi Hiroa's works on Polynesia are very valuable. He was an anthropologist and native Polynesian.

I hope I can do some work on this page, but the few sentences written, and pointed to in the tentative area, are not at all adequate.

A. Perey

A number of the "[culture] mythology" pages are currently little more than a few lines of introductory text followed by a selection of links (even ones like Egyptian mythology that have been fairly influential on Western culture); additions and assistance from contributors familiar in these belief systems would be greatly apopreciated. -Sean Curtin 21:48, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 List removed, items categorized 2 In progress 3 The deleted text 4 Trading and sweet potato

[edit] List removed, items categorized

I removed the list, and this article's placement in Category:Lists that should be categories. All pages that were in the list are/were in Category:Polynesian mythology, or its subcategories, with the following exceptions:

• Areoi - appears to have been a real society, so I'm not sure it's link to mythology. Couldn't find much definitive information on google about it.
• Ati (mythology) - originally had link to Ati, a disambiguation page.
• Haole - which apppears to have nothing to do with mythology
• Kanakas - which also appears to have nothing to do with mythology
• Mauri (soul) (doesn't exist, linked from Mauri disambig page)

The following pages are categorized only have a brief explaination on a disambiguation page, with no link to a detailed article.

• Bulu
• Kapo
• Kiwa
• Lona
• Oro
• Pili
• Rimu
• Ru
• Rua
• Wananga

Other notes:

• Rata - disambig page with brief description, but no seperate article (and not in a category)
• Tutu - same asRata
• Tonga (disambiguation) mentions several topics relating to Polynesian mythology, but none have seperate pages.

Some of the important mythological beings/places/ideas should be mentioned on this page, with a brief explaination of their significance. --Mairi 03:54, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] In progress

I'm working on this. Any help would be greatly appreciated...there's no way I can write the whole article, but I can definitely get it started. Verloren Hoop 13:42, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

I'll be glad to help. Where are you at, what help can I give? How do you want to approach it? Kahuroa 00:09, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The deleted text

One of the other editors added this text, then deleted it. I thought it was extremely useful, so I'm putting it up again, under my OWN name. Other editor is relieved of all onus for ever thinking any of these things. It's all bad Zora.

• If someone is going to rewrite this article, they really should have an understanding of how oral tradition works. They should have read and understood Albert Lord's The Singer of Tales (1960) for a start.
• It's important to understand that in the real world there is/was no such beast as Polynesian mythology. Each culture/island group/island had its own mythology which was unique. What those mythologies shared was a common (but distant) origin and history, but Polynesia never functioned as a unit in terms of generating an oral tradition. Hence it is wrong to combine the traditions of different areas. You have to keep them separate if your writing is to have any validity.
• You need to have a good understanding of at least one (preferably more than one) Polynesian people and their culture and history.
• Older sources, and books that derive from them, tend to be romanticised.
• Generalised collections of mythology (new or old) are likely to be inaccurate. Especially if they are written outside of Polynesia
• You have to make sure that what you read is accurate - and that it gives its sources, and that ideally the original text in a Polynesian language can be identified. Studying the mythologies of the Polynesians is filled with traps for the unwary

That's a little daunting, but fair. I just haven't had the time for this. I speak Tongan, have a smatter of Hawaiian and have some background in Hawaiian and Tongan mythology. It's been years since I read any of the material for Samoa, Tahiti, New Zealand, Marquesas, etc. But I think I can recognize New Age woo-woo kukaebipi at twenty paces.

Giving an overview of Polynesian mythology could be approached two ways: island group by island group, OR, taking one motif, like Maui fishing up islands, and showing how it is treated in different groups. I'd say we do mainly the first, and do the second only when it's an important myth and there is lots of material.

Listing reference books and useful websites might be a start. Zora 00:32, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Of the two approaches you mention, the first I think is much better in terms of being true to the material. I think that is what needs to be done first, then the other later if at all. That is what I and others have been trying to do with individual articles on the subject. Quite a few articles (like Māui (mythology)) refer to multiple traditions, and I am not too comfortable with that long-term, but at the moment there isn't enough there in a lot of cases to warrant splitting it up just yet. I have tried to keep the individual cultures carefully separated within the article. There is also the article Laka - which brings out a problem with having combined articles - why should the Hawaiian form of the name be used for the article - most of the material relates to other cultures and the Hawaiian form of the name is pretty divergent from the rest.

Tangaroa is another case in point. In Māori he is the god of the sea, as in other areas of Polynesia. In Hawaii however, he seems to be only marginally associated with the sea, and is the god of the underworld, an evil fellow. I wouldn't want someone to come away with the impression that 'Tangaroa' is the Polynesian god of the sea and the underworld' because that would not be true. But those are things to worry about long term.

In Rangi and Papa I have tried to keep it pretty much focussed on Māori - for the simple reason that nowhere else do the two names occur together, and 'equivalents' in other areas seem to be rather different as well.

I speak Māori and can read quite a lot of the other eastern polynesian languages. I am pretty familiar with the Māori traditions - did my thesis in that area. Am not so hot on the Western Polynesian stuff, so your knowledge of Tongan balances that out nicely.

The idea of listing sources is great. Will add some when in the mood for that. I don't remember being very impressed by Malo tho. Seems a little non-trad if I remember. Beckwith is pretty good for Hawaiian material. Kahuroa 06:07, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

You're right about the Malo, really. He touches on mythology only glancingly, and immediately says that it's wrong. He was a missionary man all the way. I just couldn't think of anything else that would approach primary source status. By the time you get to Fornander, it's all so contaminated with Biblical mythology as to be greatly suspect. Perhaps the Kumulipo as a primary source ...

Darn, I've forgotten a lot of this stuff. I've been reading Islamic and Persian history, plus books about Bollywood and ethology, of late. Nothing like WP to widen your horizons. Zora 06:37, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Trading and sweet potato

I removed this material added by an unregistered contributor because it I think it is too far off the topic, and has nothing to do with mythology. It may be better in another article:

Recent research on sweet potato varieties in the Pacific indicates that some Polynesians made contact with the coast of South America (or people from there), and returned, but there is no evidence of Polynesian societies in South America. At the same time as some Polynesians were exploring to the east, others were re-discovering routes to the west, establishing maritime trade and raid relations between locations as far apart as Tonga and Uvea (Wallis), Tonga, Anuta and Tikopia, or Samoa and Ouvéa (in the Loyalty Islands).

Kahuroa 05:01, 23 August 2006 (UTC)