Talk:Politics of Cuba

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Cuba To-do: edit  Task list New article announcements Requests: Sport in Cuba, Yaguajay Stubs: Dollar store (Cuba), Celia Sánchez Verify: History of Cuba, Fulgencio Batista Update: 2006 Cuban transfer of presidential duties NPOV: History of Cuba, Delfin Fernandez Copyedit: Bay of Pigs invasion, Julio Antonio Mella, Fabio Grobart Wikify: Merge: Cleanup: Bay of Pigs invasion, History of Cuba, War Against the Bandits, Abelardo Colomé Ibarra, List of Cubans, Máximo Gómez, Antonio Maceo Grajales Style: Fidel Castro Expand: Cuban-Soviet relations, Chivatos, Baseball in Cuba, Religion in Cuba, Havana's International Book Fair, Cuba-Venezuela relations, Antonio Sánchez de Bustamante y Sirven

Wow! Much correction is needed to convert this article to NPOV. El Jigüe 1/29/06

Indeed! And I shall begin the work. WGee 00:29, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 Legal system 2 Factual accuracy 3 Moving material 4 Critics say 5 New comments 5.1 2 6 Recent addition issues

[edit] Legal system

It is not correct to refer to the legal system as a "branch" (as in America), because the courts are completely subordinate to the dictator-for-life, Castro. --Uncle Ed 16:19, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Wow, Uncle Ed, "dictator-for-life"? Is that neutral point of view or truth? Perhaps a better way to make your point would be to cite article XIII[1] of their constitution which does not identify a 'Judicial Branch'. BruceHallman 16:43, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, Bruce. I was confusing Calvin (from the comics) and Castro for a moment. I was obliquely referring to Castro's imputed intent to remain in power in Cuba forever. The assertion that he intends to hold power for the rest of his life comes from a U.S. government source (on the page). --Uncle Ed 17:36, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Then perhaps you can cite the source for that claim as I requested earlier? BruceHallman 13:28, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

How about President and Prime Minister for Life? lol

Well, the header for the legal system is just "Judiciary" now in the article, so it's no longer referred to as a "branch", so this dispute is resolved, right? Jack Waugh 20:46, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Factual accuracy

Is the entirety of this article in dispute, or only certain sections? It is quite a large article - perhaps the tag at the top should just be put over the sections that are disputed. --DavidShankBone 15:58, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moving material

Noe that I moved the election material the elections page where it should be.Ultramarine 16:41, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I've noted that you've been moving a lot of things around lately. None of it accompanied by discussion, consensus, consultation in accordance with policy. None of it justified it my view. But it'll all come out in the wash, and I'm not going anywhere in a hurry. Please explain why you are making these changes, some of which set a precedent for nation pages? --Zleitzen 16:51, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I have provided edit comments for all changes. Regarding detailed information on elections, I though it better to present on the election page which is created for that purpose. However, alternatively we can instead also on this page present the views of the critics.Ultramarine 16:54, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

The 'moving' was accompanied by unexplained deletion of material. BruceHallman 17:23, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

What material? Ultramarine 17:39, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Check the edit history of the page, the answer is self evident. BruceHallman 18:20, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

No it is not. What exactly are you objecting to? Ultramarine 18:22, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

This diff [[2]] deleted information. BruceHallman 19:06, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Again, as noted above, I moved it to the election page.Ultramarine 19:58, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Look again, you deleted material and only moved a portion. BruceHallman 20:13, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

What portion was deleted? Ultramarine 20:15, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Critics say

We must have something more substantial than the archetypal weasel words "critics say...", a random quote based on original research and a source slapped onto the page from some website or another which isn't attributed. Clarifying nothing.--Zleitzen 15:38, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New comments

216.178.51.235 added these comments on 15:03, 1 December 2006, which I am moving here, to be clearer. -- Beardo 23:56, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

I accidentally added my discussion to the description page. my thoughts are: (this is NOT part of the summary, but a question: the summary sounds biased as I wonder why it is important to note that the civil constitution forces people to support socialism, when it seems the u.s. forces people to support democracy or be considered a traitor...what about the u.s. treatment of "communist" individuals during the cold war? so the cold war is over, but look at those who disagree with the white house, i.e., Valerie Plames' career ruination? what are the u.s. laws about what constitutes a treason? and how may the civil rights be affected...and, ahem, look at the treatment of muslims/muslim clerics/guantanamo--no TRIALs, no charges, and no habeous corpus for those detained...the u.s. wages a war to "defend democracy" and yet the defense of socialism is any different?! (user: christine g, 12/1/06)m

[edit] 2

This page is a real discredit to Wikipedia. I came here to find out about the Cuban electroal system not to read a pile of inaccurate anti-Cuban propaganda (e.g. Fidel Castro is head of the Armed forces - not true). I won't bother to make corrections, I think the page is lost. If you want to read about the system try here instead [3] Db 12/23/06 - —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.138.129.255 (talk • contribs) on 21 December 2006.

Fidel Castro is the Commander in chief of the armed forces and has been since 1959. If you need evidence of this please see the English translation of Castro's statement concerning his 2006 transfer of duties. [4] --Zleitzen 09:02, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Recent addition issues

Teemu's latest edit refers to Raul Castro's complaints about the Cuban economy, corruption and the poor infrastructure, back in December. It was accompanied by the announcement of a process of national debate. Raul is quoted here to have said "In this Revolution we are tired of excuses" etc.[5] This is reminiscent of the Rectification period of the late 80s and I believe Fidel Castro has been saying similar things over the last 10 years or so, therefore I don't believe the statement is especially significant. I'm not sure which translation Teemu heard - the wording of his addition seems a little off the mark to me.--Zleitzen 03:39, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree that Teemu's wording may not correctly reflect the original. But I do think that what was said was important, and want to try to find something more definitive to quote. http://tvscripts.edt.reuters.com/2007-01-25/3656caa7.html has a number of quotes from Raul which indicate an unhappiness with the current situation - a desire to change:

17. (SOUNDBITE) (Spanish) CUBAN INTERIM LEADER, RAUL CASTRO, SAYING: "How can we have food if the majority of the producers - that is 65 percent of the production - aren't being paid? It has been months now and even though it is hard there is no remedy left than to face these problems and to see if we have finished resolving them."

HAVANA, CUBA (FILE - DECEMBER 22, 2006) (TV CUBANA - ACCESS ALL) 23. (SOUNDBITE) (Spanish) CUBAN INTERIM LEADER, RAUL CASTRO, SAYING: "I believe that we are already tired of the justifications in this revolution, one just has to analyze how the things are and tell them how they are - to tell the truth."

-- Beardo 14:04, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Please call me formally with my full name. This is to avoid all the expected power struggles from Zleitzen.

I dislike the talk page, which is unnavigable and a forum for politizing. Refer to the history on Cuba: Talk page, if you can find it. Since you have already begun, I will comply to avoid accusations of trolling from Zleitzen et al, which he is sure to love.

I wrote:

Political Issues On 3th of february 2007 the finnish public broadcasting company YLE, channel TV1, broadcasted a Finlands Svensk Television´s documentary OBS, which handled the issue of recent Fidel Castro´s appearance on television. In OBS there was film material in which Raúl Castro said at the Assembly of the Communist Party that, "it's time to face it, our time is beginning to be over". He continued, "I'm fed up with the excuses of the Revolution... everything about Fidel Castro is meaningless, unless you take the charge", pointing at the National Assembly. OBS also stated the Raúl Castro has refused to take over the chairmanship of the National Assembly, and the subsequent position of a head of state.

It's good that Beardo has it more accurately: "In this Revolution we are tired of excuses" etc.[6] or "I believe that we are already tired of the justifications in this revolution...", neither way, it's necessairy to add the politics on to the politics page, not just amateur estimates about the structure of the political system. It's true, my wording was not accurate, but then again, which one of yours is? What comes to the other quotes, I believe they are exact, and they are worth of mentioning in the article. Now we know what the article needs. Perhaps the added facts will even moderate the anti-Castro attitudes. Teemu Ruskeepää 15:32, 5 February 2007 (UTC)