Talk:Point-to-Point Protocol over Ethernet

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You have new messages (last change).

I have added content from the German article to add to this one. The following points need clearing up:

  • The first paragraphs of both articles are very different, and so I have left it alone - but that does not mean it could modified....
  • There are no references, although I suppose the RFC's define it ( ? ) .
  • The usual caps / technical terms issue.

Regards

ACH 17:00, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Article title

Why is this article titled PPPoE, when every other protocol in the Internet protocol suite has its name spelled out? I propose that we move the page to Point-to-Point Protocol over Ethernet, to match the article for PPP. — EagleOne\Talk 20:55, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree - in the interest of consistency. One could just put a redirect at PPPoE. ACH 10:21, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
I posted a similar request on Talk:PPPoA today. If no one objects in a coulpe of days, I'll move the pages and fix the redirects. — EagleOne\Talk 17:58, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] PPPoE and atm

ADSL is afaict atm based yet some providers use PPPoE rather than PPPoA or even allow both. How exactly does this fit in? Plugwash 01:45, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

"Fit in" in what sense? Yes, ADSL is ATM-based. Some providers run bridged Ethernet over ATM, and then run PPPoE over that. Some providers run PPPoA, and avoid using Ethernet at all. Some providers run bridged Ethernet over ATM and don't bother running PPPoE over that. Guy Harris 00:42, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Password

How does the use of passwords in PPPoE links differ from the alternatives? Just what alternatives are used on DSLs where PPPoe is not? Jim.henderson 15:03, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Some ADSL connections use bridged Ethernet over ATM without running PPPoE, and don't use passwords at all. Guy Harris 16:32, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Ethernet is atm based and can use a variety of schemes for transmitting IP over that, including PPPoE (i don't entirely understand how this works, i guess it uses atms ethernet like emulation layer or something) PPPoA and a variety of older protocols. Both PPP variants handle passwords in the same way as any other PPP variant (e.g. pap or chap), most of the other schemes afaict don't do passwords at all.
Ethernet is not ATM-based. See the Ethernet article to see how Ethernet works.
To understand how PPPoE works, see the PPPoE article and the RFC for PPPoE. It doesn't use anything about ATM. (ATM's "Ethernet-like emulation layer" is "LAN Emulation" or "LANE". It emulates an Ethernet or Token Ring LAN over ATM.)
PPPoA doesn't involve Ethernet at all. That's what the "oA" prt of "PPPoA" indicates - it runs PPP directly over ATM without Ethernet being involved.
The standard scheme for transmitting IPv4 over Ethernet doesn't involve any protocols other than Ethernet, ARP, and IPv4 itself; see RFC 894. The standard scheme for transmitting IPv6 over Ethernet involves Ethernet, IPv6 itself, and assorted other protocols.
Bridged Ethernet over ATM doesn't involve PPP at all, and doesn't use passwords. See RFC 2684.

Well, thanks, everybody, especially the ones who remembered to sign their names. My problem with a relative's two years old Verizon DSL connection was fixed by calling the toll free help number and the guy in India talked me through putting the password in correct places, namely both the Actiontec router and a place in XP Networking. In my own Verizon DSL installed this summer (one computer under WinMe and one 98SE) there is no password. No security measures in the link, router, or computers that I can see. Whether either of these ADSLs have ATM or bridged Ethernet or both or neither, I have no idea.

Why someone at Verizon two years ago thought consumer DSL needed the security, verification, compression etc features of PPPoE, I may never know, but fortunately they changed their mind and no new users are afflicted with security that makes insecurity. Ought the article say whether PPPoE is rare or common, new or obsolete, in consumer DSL and CATV Internet? Jim.henderson 05:24, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

ADSL always has ATM. Whether it has bridged Ethernet over ATM without PPPoE, bridged Ethernet over ATM with PPPoE, PPPoA without any Ethernet, or whatever, is up to the provider. I've no idea what Verizon have done over time; the page at [1] suggests that "ADSL Data Network Release 1" might have used either bridged Ethernet over ATM without PPPoE ("IP over Ethernet over ATM") or bridged Ethernet over ATM with PPPoE ("PPPoE over ATM"), and that "ADSL Data Network Release 2" might have used either bridged Ethernet over ATM with PPPoE or PPPoA ("PPP over AAL5"). Perhaps there's a "Release 3" that went back to bridged Ethernet over ATM without PPPoE. (That document says "Bell Atlantic", which indicates how old it is. :-)) Guy Harris 07:01, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
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