Talk:Plot hole
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[edit] Dodgy example
In Superman II isn't the regaining of powers explained by the fact that Superman removed the key crystal from its rightful place to show it to Lois Lane and she left it laying in the snow, so when all the crystals were destroyed the important one survived, allowing Superman to later regain his powers? Also isn't the On Her Majesty's Secret Service example is more a minor goof than an actual plot hole? Asa01 22:29, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
- As for the James Bond thing - there's the idea that "James Bond" wasn't an individual character, but rather the official codename assigned to a top operative; thus Blofeld did not recognize the new James Bond. DS 14:07, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
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- It is a mistake because the novels were filmed out of sequence. Their first meeting is in the novel of 'OHMSS' so Blofeld does not recognise Bond. When the novels were filmed out of sequence in the films, they had already met in an earlier film, however, the "first meeting" scene was adapted from the 'OHMSS novel in error. Asa01 19:48, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
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- The "James Bond is just a code name" argument doesn't really hold any water. It's never been stated or even implied in the novels or films that "James Bond" is just a code name for British agents. The fact that Bond and Blofeld never recognize each other despite a previous meeting is inarguably a plot hole. DT29 20 September 2006
To belatedly come back to this: Superman regaining his powers in Superman II is a classic plot hole, evidenced by the fact that you need to construct a line of reasoning yourself to justify it since nothing in the movie will. There's no indication in the movie that the crystal left is the "key crystal" or "most important one", but even if it was, how would this explain Superman regaining his powers, especially after being told explicitly that the process is irreversible? So maybe there's a loophole, fine, but then that loophole needs to be explained, since Superman regaining his powers is absolutely crucial to the plot.
This is a good example of a plot hole because it's very likely to make viewers stop and go "Huh? How did that happen?" Compare this with the minor plot holes of the now powerless Clark managing to get himself and Lois back to civilization from the North Pole, and later hiking all the way back himself to regain his powers... Is there a bus stop nearby, or something? 82.92.119.11 20:24, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Definition of plot hole
I always thought that a plot hole was an inconsistency or a self-contradiction in the plot. What this article describes (ie, the criminal making a left turn into the alley to escape the police) is more like an unlikely occurence, which is common in storylines for the sake of advancing the plot.
Incidentally, the examples do indeed fit my supposed definition of plot hole. Viltris 22:06, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
- What this article describles is an unlikely occurence given the already known, established rules of the story's world/characters/backstory or plot. Therefore, it can and DOES describe an " inconsistency or self-contradiction in the plot". If a journey takes six weeks in one novel, and a later sequel has the same journey take place in six hours, if you don't explain how it got so much faster, it's inconsistent, self-contrdictory, and describing an (given the previous information the reader got) "unlikely occurence". If an unlikely event is left completely unexplained in the story, it's an inconsistency of plot, therefore, a plot hole. Make sense now? 169.139.190.6 21:13, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Better example
Ever since questioning the examples here I've been trying to come up with a better example because I think what we've currently got really aren't plot holes as such - merely conventional mistakes. The only thing I could think of is the Doctor Who adventure The Invisible Enemy where people are taken-over/possessed by an alien and they become villains trying to possess more people. There is no easy way of curing the possession. When the Doctor is possessed, himself and companion Leela are cloned (it is explained that clones created in the method used die after a few hours), shrunk, and injected into the Doctor a la Fantastic Voyage to kill the possessing parasite. The clones are created, and the clone of the Doctor proved to be not possessed, and all goes to plan. Then a possessed villain arrives, has himself cloned, shrunk and injected, and goes after the clone Doctor and Leela to stop them in their quest. So how come the cloned villain remained possessed but the cloned Doctor was not possessed? Plot hole. But maybe it is a bit obscure for the page?! Asa01 19:35, 23 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Another plothole example?
I remember from one movie... Tiny Toon Adventures: How I Spent My Vacation or something along those lines... One climatic (or is that climaxic?) scene near the end of the movie came to a somewhat anticlimatic end. Basically, the main characters were falling off of a cliff to their certain doom, but ended up falling through some sort of wormhole that deposited them safely back in their hometown. The characters referred to it as a plothole. and poked fun at the (script)writers, commenting that they (the characters) were wondering how they (the writers) were going to pull this one off. Keep in mind that it's been several years since I saw this, though, so my memory is probably a bit fuzzy. Kalo 14:54, 5 April 2006 (UTC) (Edit: Fixed title, added wikilink. Kalo 15:00, 5 April 2006 (UTC))
- The word is "climactic", I believe. This would not quite fit with the other plot holes given, since Tiny Toon Adventures sort of ran on plot holes. It is, however, a good reference to the Plot Hole phenomenon, and might be worthy of a reference in the article if sources can be cited properly for it. 169.139.190.6 21:16, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] What, no war of the worlds?
Theres heated discussion between fans of the movie and those who think its ridden with plotholes, one quick look at IMDB forums of the movie and there would be at least 1 or 2 topics about a plothole discussion.
[edit] The Big Sleep
I'm going to say right out that I haven't seen the film or read the book. However, I find the following section to be a little confusing:
"Howard Hawks' The Big Sleep is a Film Noir classic that has been revered for its overly convoluted plot noted for a major plot hole that has baffled both audiences and the makers and even the writer of the source novel, Raymond Chandler. In the film, a chauffeur is found dead in his limousine which is fished out of the docks. In a later scene, a character admits to knocking the driver in the back of his head and escaping with a roll of film. However, this still doesn't explain how the driver and his car was mysteriously found in the bottom of the sea. This plot hole was present in the source novel as well and when he was asked who killed the driver, Chandler's reply was, 'Damn! I don't know either.'"
As far as I can see, the plot hole in the film concerns how the car ends up in the sea (while the death of the driver was explained), whereas the plot hole in the book concerns 'who killed the driver'. Either this difference should be mentioned or one of the examples needs to be corrected. Branfish 01:14, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
