Talk:PlayStation 2/Archive 2

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have new messages (last change).
Archive This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page.
← Archive 1 |
Archive 2
| Archive 3 →


Contents

PS2 record-setting

I've noticed that the PS2 "setting a record" paragraph has appeared and disappeared several times by different users lately. It was my understanding that the majority consensus was that we were going to keep it in both the upper and lower paragraphs. So could we possibly get some discussion going here? I'm fine with it either way, getting a consensus would keep it from ping-ponging back and forth between revisions. Daniel Davis 11:56, 27 December 2005 (UTC) (Doom127)

The thing is, it's not factual. The PS2 is not the most sold gaming console. The Game Boy line is. Xizer 19:30, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Comparing the PlayStation 2 with the Game Boy family is somewhat biased. Either compare the PlayStation line with the Game Boy line, or a single console from the family with a single console from the other family. It appears to be the best selling home console, though, although I believe Sony says PS sold 100m, while PS2 shipped 100m. PS2 broke the record of reaching 100m shipped consoles first, but I am not sure if they sold as many PS2 as PS yet. -- ReyBrujo 19:40, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Seems that the blurb should be kept out then, it appears. The guy who last reinserted it hasn't put down a comment, so I have no idea what his reason for putting it in is. Daniel Davis 23:38, 27 December 2005 (UTC) (Doom127)
I'm here and agree with ReyBrujo. Gameboy isn't a home console, it's a portable console, so, keep the information. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.29.241.105 (talk • contribs) 02:54, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
The only person who has been deleting that paragraph is Xizer. First of all he needs to source his claim, second the PS2 is the fastest selling console, period. It hasn't yet sold as many as the PS, but it reached a shipment of 100 million units almost 4 years quicker than the PS, thus it is the fastest selling console. Yes, the PS2 has sold even quicker than the Gameboy, which launched in 1989 and Nintendo stated in 1998 that they had sold about 66 million of them[1]. Dionyseus 07:55, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
I was always under the impression that the GBA sold more than the PS2, but if the opposite is true, then that is indeed an interesting fact. Daniel Davis 01:41, 30 December 2005 (UTC) (Doom127)
GBA sold around 70m worldwide. I don't believe Sony would ship 100m units if they had sold less than 70m. -- ReyBrujo 03:39, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
Actually only around 35m GBA, and 32m GBAsp have been sold worldwide, Nintendo likes to combine sales of the GBAsp with those of the GBA to make the numbers look more impressive. Also note how they don't list GBC in the sales charts, it's because they combine its sales with the Gameboy's. [2] Dionyseus 04:01, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
Combining GBA and GBASP sales (or Game Boy and its cousins) is just as valid as combining sales of both versions of the PS2. Either way, the Game Boy is the highest-selling gaming machine ever, followed by the original Playstation. PS2 comes in third, followed by (IIRC) the NES. 128.226.230.60 21:39, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Excess fair use images

There were too many fair use images on this page, especially the gallery of game screenshots which are probable copyright infringement on this page. Please keep fair use images to a minimum. -Thanks Nv8200p talk 22:24, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

What is the problem with screenshots? You removed from Xbox article too.. Screenshots is totally fair use compilant and use widely in Wikipedia articles. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.29.32.208 (talk • contribs) 18:14, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
A limited number of screenshots is ok. This is just copyright paranoia. See Wikipedia:Screenshots#Copyright_issues. K1Bond007 19:55, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
Thank you k1bond now these guys need leave article live with screenshots —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.29.11.234 (talk • contribs) 21:42, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

Unmarked screenshots are acceptable to use by anyone. I should know, I'm a video game journalist. Wikipedia should have no trouble acquiring an account at the vgamin.com network to acquire screenshots. You can also check to see if a publisher has a press page with media for use. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.19.147.38 (talk • contribs) 05:00, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Special Edition models

Any mention of special edition models like the white GT4 Prologue or the gold Z Gundam Hyaku Shiki edition late in 2003 WilliRennen 3 January 2006 (UTC)

See PlayStation 2 Special Editions —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.8.108.22 (talk • contribs) 14:47, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

USB Compatability

I noticed a note was added about the compatability of USB devices. In reality, *most* USB devices do not function with the PS2. And although it is true that USB storage devices cannot be used in the manner noted (For uploading homebrew apps), they can be used in GT4 for storage of pictures taken in game, and with some Gameshark or Action Replay type products for transfering game saves. In my experience working with people to get their PS2 connected to the internet on various forums, I have found that many people are supprised that most USB devices don't work with the PS2, or that they can't do something like this:

[USB WiFi Device]--USB Cable--[USB-Ethernet Adapter]--Ethernet Cable--[PS2]

I usually have to explain to them that the USB they know is from their use of Windows XP or an Apple, and their implementation of Plug and Play. The PS2 however does not include drivers for their USB devices, they only work if their game includes support for them.

I don't know how much, if any, of that can be used in the article, but what is included currently could use a revision. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by HeavyD14 (talk • contribs) 17:51, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

Pretty much *ANY* non-pc device acting as a usb host is going to have this problem. Its easy for devices for which there is a standard device class (mice,mass storage devices etc) but anything that doesn't is only going to work if its explicitly supported.
Btw am i right in thinking that USB device support on the PS/2 is basically a function of the game itself not of the console?
As for
[USB WiFi Device]--USB Cable--[USB-Ethernet Adapter]--Ethernet Cable--[PS2]
that wouldn't be possible if it was a PC on the end either! USB (with the exception of the on the go variant) cannot be used for connecting two perheripherals directly together period. Plugwash 03:57, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

I noticed somebody stated that slim ps2's have USB 2.0 capability, I edited this to read USB 1.1 because that is what slim ps2's have just like the old big ones. In reality the whole comment seemed useless as it was pointing to the ability to use USB hard drives, which is possible however USB 1.1 is really too slow to make it worthwhile. Also that whole section on revisions seems like it needs a general cleanup, it looks like it's been edited into incoherence. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.46.210.206 (talk • contribs) 19:03, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

update request

update this "PS2" redirects here. For the similarly-named PS/2 computer system and its derived uses (including the PS/2 keyboard and mouse connectors on most PCs), see IBM Personal System/2.

Not anymore ps2 redirecs here, now a webpage shows giving 3 options, playstation 2, ps/2, and another option. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 201.124.129.251 (talk • contribs) 19:18, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

I was the person that added the disambig line. I don't believe that a separate disambig page would improve things at present.

If "PS2" was a disambig page, the "Personal System/2" would still take two steps to reach, "Playstation 2" would require 2 steps instead of 1, and we'd have another page to look after.

If there were three or more plausible disambig meanings, your suggestion would merit consideration. However, since "another option" wasn't specified, let's keep things simple until we outgrow the current setup.

Fourohfour 13:03, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


Development information

The article mentions homebrew development. I think it should also briefly describe professional development, since the PS2 is such a unique architecture. What tools and compilers to they use? Metrowerks? GCC? Something else? 130.233.173.8 14:35, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

USB Mice

Hi.

I'm basically just wondering, since the Playstation 2 has a USB port, and you can get a lot of USB mice for the PC, is it possible to use a USB PC mouse when you're playing mouse-compatible games on your Playstation 2? Or do you need a mouse that has been specifically designed for the Playstation 2? Thanks. Doom jester 13:11, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

ever consider just trying it? Plugwash 13:15, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
I tried it with the Playstation 1 version of Final Doom, which supports the mouse for the Playstation 1. That didn't work. I don't have any PS2 games that support the mouse though. I was hoping to find out before I buy one- Half-Life, specifically. Doom jester 14:17, 19 January 2006 (UTC)
I seem to remember watching a video on one of the first PS Underground disks for the PS2 that said you can use just about any USB mouse. If yours happens to be one of those cool ones with all sorts of buttons, I doubt they will all be functional.

However, to the best of my knowledge, there are verry few PS2 games that can take advantage of the moue. The only one I can think of right now is Silent Scope, one of the launch titles.HeavyD14 05:57, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

I took a chance and bought Half-Life. It turns out my mouse works with it. If you're wondering, my mouse is a Logitech pilot mouse (corded, optical). So from this I guess we can say that at least some PC mice do work with the Playstation 2! I thought optical ones wouldn't, being fairly modern, but they sure do. It's a pity you can't use them with Playstation 1 games, though. Doom jester 13:39, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
why would the game care if its optical or not its just a usb human input device as far as software support goes. Plugwash 15:10, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

DVD Playback on 4:3 TVs - Always Zoomed In?

Hi.

I've been trying to play some DVDs on my Playstation 2, and I've noticed that when I put in a DVD that is in the 1.85:1 aspect ratio, my PS2 always puts a zoomed in image of the movie on my TV. BTW, my TV is an old square 4:3 one, and my PS2 is an old, European model (I bought it when the PS2 first came out). Does anyone know of a way to correct this, so that I see the full, wide image? I've tried changing all the options on my PS2 and on the TV, too. Cheers. Doom jester 15:23, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Hello.

There are a few tricks for changing the way DVD's are displayed with the PS2. What you need to do is put in your DVD movie and when you reach the DVD's menu press the select button and select stop from the onscreen PS2 menu. Now, from the same onscreen PS2 menu look for a settings button and select either 16:9, Pan Scan, or 4:3 letterbox. You will need to play around to see which setting works for your DVD and TV combination. You may also need to go into the PS2's browser and alter the display setting in there as well. Eventually you should find a setting that works. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.19.147.38 (talk • contribs) 04:54, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

I've tried changing all the settings in the start up menu, but nothing has any effect. I'm just wondering if anyone else has noticed this problem when using a PS2 with a 4:3 TV because it's kind of annoying. It's difficult to notice at first, but it's definitely for real- with my Playstation 2 and TV, at least. By the way, my TV is a 28 inch Matsui. Has anyone else noticed this problem? The easiest way to check, obviously, is to get a stand alone DVD player and compare what you see to your PS2's output. Cheers. Doom jester 11:13, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

DVD-R and other backup media

It was stated that DVD-R and other type of "pirated" media actually damages the laser and lens...

In order to supply an accurated information regarding this, more details are requiered like generation of modchips, console versions, voltage levels. One cannot simply claim something just because one heard it from someone. Furthermore people who install modchips usually add some circuitery(resistors) to prevent laser burns, it is then debatable the fact that in modern consoles, using modern modchips with additional resistors, there will be laser/lens burns/damages. C trillos 19:10, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Sold vs. Shipped?

In the section for the record of PS2 sold, it states it broke the number of PS2s sold, with 100 million shipped. Shipped would just mean putting them out on the market, and not actual sales. I'm not sure if this was how the record was recorded or not, but should it be altered here? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.128.101.21 (talk • contribs) 20:47, 16 February 2006 (UTC)


Emulation?

How about adding a section concerning emulation of the PS2? --193.11.124.244 17:52, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Baised Listing

the games section on this thing must have beeen writen by an x-box owner or somthing cause it says that all the ps2 games are crappy and good ones like GTA or Timespliters are really crappy. i think some one should change that cause its not like that on the x-box articile —The preceding unsigned comment was added by R.D (talk • contribs) 23:17, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Polygon Fillrate

The 7 million polygon figure for the PS2 is incorrect. According to the SCEE article HowFarHaveWeGot in 2003. Some developers were already pushing the boundaries of 7.5 Million Polygons or 125K polys per frame at 60 frames per second in a gaming environment. The 7.5 Million Polygon figure equates to about 13-15 Million polygons at 30 frames per second. According to a document published by Tramell Ray Isaac of Sony Online Entertainment for Gamasutra.com the Playstation 2 is capable of rendering 50 million polygons per second peak (48-pixel quads, 24-bit color, Z-buffering, alpha blending) in a real world scenario. According to another article written at 1up.com in 2005, the Playstation 2 is capable of rendering about 13 Million Polygons in a gaming environment. Finally, another document published by Dominic Mallinson, Director of Technology, R&D Sony Computer Entertainment America proved the Playstation 2 could render between 10-16 million polygons in a gaming environment.

It should be safe to assume that the Playstation 2 is capable of rendering 13-16 million polygons in a gaming environment. Far more than the 7 Million polygon figure listed.

--66.19.146.157 11:16, 4 March 2006 (UTC)````GameGaia.com

I agree that the numbers need to be increased. I upped the numbers under gaming condition to 10-16 mil, but editors lowered to 6-9 mil. Those numbers would make the PS2 weaker at polygons than the Sega Dreamcast.
The Dreamcast can generate 3-5 million in a game, but because of the tile based architecture (which elimnates overdraw, or rendering polygons which aren't in view) it ends up being equivalent to at least twice as much. PS2 isn't as efficient with polygons (overdraw wastes polygons), meaning it needs a higher polygon output to produce the same effect. 6-9 mil on the PS2 would be as blocky as the Dreamcast which isn't the case (meaning the number is wrong).
I'm updating the numbers to a very conservative (should probably be higher) number of 9-13 mil.
--Person —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.252.179.26 (talk • contribs) 17:05, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Profit

At what point did the ps2 finally sell at a profit? what hardware revision? ~~frank~~ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.141.128.47 (talk • contribs) 12:52, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Well Sony doesn't like giving exact numbers so we don't know exactly when. It was somewhere around a year or two or even three years ago. Jedi6-(need help?) 17:19, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
The price wars and game bundles make it tricky to determine exactly, if ever. Some have suggested that the GameCube was perhaps the only console of this generation to make a small profit, but that was likely before they slashed the price and threw in games. GoldDragon 03:39, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Best-selling game

Though that Grand Theft Auto San Andreas would have sold more than Vice City, although the Hot Coffee mod might have potentially cut into sales (but that would more likely be the PC version which could be hacked easier). Another alternative is just to list the Grand Theft Auto series in the slot, rather than a particular game, since GTA III was the best-seller in 2001 and runner up in 2002 and still keeps selling as part of the Double Pack. GoldDragon 03:39, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

No its definitly Vice City, though San Andreas is getting closer. Vice City is actually in the top 25 best selling games of all time. Jedi6-(need help?) 03:44, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
As an aside, Vice City (PS2) might have sold more than San Andreas (PS2) since Vice City was the first game under the Sony-Take2 exlusivity deal for the GTA series. At the time Vice City came out for PS2, there was uncertainty at whether there would be a PC version and the Xbox was out of the question. By San Andreas's release for PS2, everyone knew that the PC and Xbox would be getting their own version next year. GoldDragon 17:32, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
Actually, neither of them are the best-selling PS2 game. Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec is. Refer to this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_selling_game

Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec (14.36 million)
Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (13.70 million)
Both of these figures are backed up with sources. I'm going to fix this mistake. Phediuk 05:32, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

These figures make sense, GT3 sold like hotcakes. Dionyseus 16:10, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
The top game was Vice City. You can't use Wikipedia as a source for itself. Jedi6-(need help?) 01:10, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
I took a look at the supposed source for the 14.36 million figure for Gran Turismo 3, and it does not mention 14.36 million, instead it mentions 11 million. I have thus edited it to the proper figure of 11 million. GTA: Vice City is apparently the top selling game for PS2. Dionyseus 06:56, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

50cent bulletproof is the best game ever

For your info, 50 Cent: Bulletproof is horrible. It is the most bottom-of-the-barrel shooter ever concieved. Sure, it may have the most incredibly soundtrack ever forged, but it sucks, and to prove my point go read the March GameInformer issue and look at the review score. In my opinion, even Daikatana is better.--TraceTheKriken--71.145.162.231 18:41, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Ironically, there is not one source cited as Vice City being the top selling game. I am going to site a non wikipedia source that says GT3 is the top selling game. Here: [3]. This seems more recent then this link: [4] which is very reliable. Unfortunately, this link refers to the sales in June 2005. Nonetheless is says San Andreas is the top selling game not Vice City. Until someone site 2 verifable sources it will be changed to GT3. Valoem 17:10, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Changing Top game from RE4 (less than 2 million sold) to GT3. [5] [6] ~~Glitched~~ 30 August 2006 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 165.189.41.11 (talk • contribs) 18:20, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Clashing Info?

I was just wondering, has anyone noticed that on this article it says that Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas was the 'top-selling game' but the List of Best-Selling Computer and Video Games declares that the killer app for the PlayStation 2 is Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec. Can someone please verify which of these sources is correct? --RedZion-- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.145.162.231 (talk • contribs) 16:45, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

To the anonymous person putting the "Xbox outsold PS2 5 months in 2004"

Don't keep putting it in, it is unsourced. Saying that "according to the NPD group" does not make it a source, you need a valid citation. Anyone can say "according to Sony," "according to Microsoft," "according to God," it doesn't confirm nothing if you don't provide a source we can read. Dionyseus 21:45, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Mentioning "PStwo"?

Actually, I'm not 100% sure if the name was even official by Sony/SCE Most of the gaming community refers the slim PS2 as "PStwo" in relation to the first Playstation slim "PSone" console. Anyone wanna consider this(PStwo) to main PS2 article? I know someone has added "PStwo" on Wiki as a redirect to this article. Maybe just a brief mention about it? At least it's an easier way of mentioning the slimmer models by typing out "PStwo" than "slim PS2"
HighEnergyProtons 14:57, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

  • It's called a 'Slimline', people. RedZion71.145.208.158 21:49, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Units shipped/sold

In the infobox for this article, it declares that the PS2 sold 103.6 million units as of March, 2006. The May 10 Wall Street Journal has an article stating that the PlayStation 2 sold 101 million units. Could somebody please verify which of these numbers is correct? --RedZion-- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.145.199.45 (talk • contribs) 00:49, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

The 103.6 million figure is straight from the E3 2006 Sony conference. Dionyseus 01:29, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Slimline and Initial look

When the PS2 was first advertised, it was slimmer than the original PS2, and was vertical. Later on, it was twice as thick as advertised, and you needed to buy the vertical stand seperately. Even later, they came out with the slim PS2. I think this info should be included in the article. 71.250.35.123 19:41, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Didn't it just look thicker because it was horizontal rather than verticle? You don't need the vertical stand for it even on the slimline. Just much easier to fall over. Citizen erased 23:13, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

AFD of PlayStation 9

This article, PlayStation 9, is undergoing AFD at this time, 14:13, 25 May 2006

It should probably be merged into the PS2 article.

This article is to be merged with and redirected to Playstation 2 as a result of an Articles for Deletion debate. The discussion can be found here. -Splashtalk 21:32, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Article was merged into PS2 132.205.45.148 17:57, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

PCMCIA

PCMCIA support was in japanese consoles SCPH-10000 SCPH-15000, SCPH-18000. You give out the arbitrary number "v0" which doesn't make sense because:

> No one refers to the first three Japanese launch editions as v0, the SCPH codes are used.
> It implies there was only one "japanese launch" hardware design (there were three and they are all very different from one another because the 0day Mars2 chip needed to be blocked)
> So many of these consoles got out that sony marketted an external Hard Disk and PCMCIA -> DEV9 adapter to allow the many many people with these early consoles access to later addons. Your article as currently written makes it seem as though not many of these early models were released.

I'd edit myself but this seems to be an important article, so i'll leave it up to the frequent contributors to decide what to do.

71.224.246.205 03:14, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Question to ps2 freaks

Does the PS2 support 5.1 Surround Sound in DVD movies? And will a PS2 purchased in one region play DVDs from another? If not, what does it take to make it play? A modchip? --Idleguy 06:47, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes (needs a certain cable). No. - . For Example --84.184.88.31 21:47, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

You can use a ps2 as a universal dvd player if you buy an Action Replay Max, no hardware modifying necessary. I own one but havent tested the feature yet. Mr toasty 03:46, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Immersion Lawsuit

Sony is appealing for the third (and final time) at this point and it seems they will lose again. Consequences (such as ps2 hardware and software being pulled from stores in US) notwithstanding, does anyone want to add a section mentioning the suit? This issue seems to get little to no coverage despite it's importance. Tani unit 05:20, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Top-Selling game

The Top-Selling game was not Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec. The Top-Selling game will be Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City. Gran Turismo 3 only has 150 cars. In Gran Turismo 4, they have over 600 cars. I'll say that Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City will be the Top-Selling game. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 196.42.61.61 (talk • contribs) .


the real top-selling game

i went to sony's official website, and looked under top selling games. kingdom hearts 2 is without a doubt the topseller because it is ranked #1 on the list. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Carbonox-infernox (talk • contribs) .

Please, give us the link. It is possible you saw the 2005 best selling game only. -- ReyBrujo 04:14, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

okay you want a link? well here it is http://www.us.playstation.com/GM just copy and paste it on your web browser. when you get to the page, look for a collumb on the right that says top selling games. kingdom hearts 2 is on the top of the list. this is straight from the official site for sony, so i don't want to see someone changing the top selling game because this is solid proof. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Carbonox-infernox (talk • contribs) .

Have you noticed that in no place it is stated they are the top 10 best selling games? Those are currently the "hottest" games, but that doesn't mean they are sorted by amount of sold games. -- ReyBrujo 03:40, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

oh my god seriously. do you have any idea how they do sort out the hottest games? they call them the hottest games because they are the ones that sell the most, meaning they are the most popular games, which is the same thing as hottest games. and well since they are the top sellers that means they are the top games. obviously, they all mean the same thing. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Carbonox-infernox (talk• contribs) .

Hottest game means it is currently selling the most, not that they are the best selling of all times. Don't you find it curious that, curiously, 7 of those 10 games have been released in 2006? Just curious, do you think a game could break all record sales of a 6 year old console with over 5,000 titles selling only for 3 months in Japan and USA, without having been released in Europe? That is pretty hard, you know :-) -- ReyBrujo 02:13, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

you're really giving me a hard time about this aren't ya? i don't really care if its beating 6 year old console games because maybe those old ones just weren't that popular. theres really no way to prove what the top selling game is then if theres no list, it would all be based on opinion which would just start world war 3. so maybe this top game thing should just be changed to hottest game because thats the only one anyone can prove. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Carbonox-infernox (talk • contribs) .

ya know what? i'm willing to call a truce between us ok? if you can get solid proof on what the top game should be we'll leave it at that and i will create another tab on that for what the hottest game should be. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Carbonox-infernox (talk •contribs) .

A clarification: Just add ~~~~ at the end of your posts to sign them. No need to copy the unsigned stuff, that is actually a reminder for others about who had written a comment. If you have been the one writing it, you should delete all that stuff and replace it with ~~~~. I will take myself some minutes to consider a reply, if possible finding sources to backup me. -- ReyBrujo 02:45, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
Ok, how about this? On May 24, 2006, Square Enix released the Financial Results for Fiscal Year Ended March 31, 2006 PDF document. This document informs that:

During this fiscal year under review, conditions in the Japanese market were generally harsh, however, such major title releases as “FINAL FANTASY XII” for PlayStation2 (2,380 thousand units in Japan as of March 31, 2006) and “Kingdom Hearts II” (1,150 thousand units in Japan and 1,260 thousand units in North America, ditto) achieved robust sales.

In other words, according to Square Enix, the company that created the game, Kingdom Hearts 2 sold "2,410 thousands" (that is, 2.4m) units as of March 31, 2006. Now, if we take a look at Take-Two Interactive Software press release on March 3, 2005 [7] (that is, released over a year before than Square Enix statement), they state that:

The Company's life to date sales of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas through the end of the first quarter have exceeded 12 million units.

Note that both are official information from game developers. I guess that makes them qualify as "solid proof". Grand Theft Autho: San Andreas sold 12m units until March 2005, while Kingdom Hearts 2 sold 2.4m until March 2006. Is that proof enough for you to probe that Kingdom Hearts 2 is not the best selling game for PlayStation 2, existing at least one title (Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas) that has sold more than it? -- ReyBrujo 04:27, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Just to clarify things on the official website for sony they stated that kingdom hearts sold 7.5 million units in just the usa. look it up on that link i gave you and click on kingdom hearts 224.15.154.181 15:23, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Yes, the link states The KINGDOM HEARTS series has sold over 7.5 million units worldwide. In other words, adding up Kingdom Hearts and Kingdom Hearts II. And even adding both up, they don't match Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas sales, do they? Are you convinced now that Kingdom Hearts II isn't the best selling game for PlayStation 2? -- ReyBrujo 22:19, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

hmm, well it looks like i'm beat... or not. lets take a look at sony shall we? assuming they know the difference between top game and hottest game, they would know what to name the list. all that matters now is the list, now wrap your mind aroud it while i say this. the name of the list, the great list of sony, is titled topgame. ya know what? so is the tab we're arguing about. because right now, nothing either of us have said matters. the only thing is sony. even if there is a difference between topgame and hottest game, then sony knows. so i suggest we should just take sony's word for it and stop poking our heads around in conflicted data. And if you don't believe me, i will send an e-mail to sony and get this straightened out, ok? i will then post the e-mail here and it will automatically end this discussion, no more arguing, because from now on, sony's word is law. either i'm wrong, you're wrong, or we're both wrong. we could argue about it for ages, or we can settle this.Carbonox-infernox 13:57, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Unluckily, sending a mail to Sony to get a reply is original research, and can't be accepted as reference as it lacks a reliable source (Sony is a reliable source, wikipiedian editors are not). I have given you the proofs, documentation from the game developers and links where it is stated that KH2 is not the best selling game. Must all this information be found in the Sony page so that you would consider it valid? ReyBrujo 16:45, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

no, thats not what its about. we just have so much conflicting data that i think instead of sticking around with the smaller companies, we should just go right to the top, because like i said, sony is the best way to go. obviously, these other companies are going to say their games are better than the rest. sony is on neither side and obviousaly they won't have conflicting data. i'm sorry but like i said, we can't base our opinions on these smaller companies. if sony said kingdom hearts 2 is the top game we should take their word for it. and yet again like i said if you still don't believe me and sony then there must be a way to settle this.Carbonox-infernox 22:58, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

alright since i havn't heard from you for a few weeks now i declare this disagreement settled. unless anyone else has any info they would like to argue about, stop changing the top game. i have already made my point.Carbonox-infernox 13:21, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I have been considering what to do. Obviously you don't believe statistics and third parties, only Sony official word. We need a consensus to settle the matter, but it is hard to come with a good idea when being so restrictive. My two solutions are either adding "Gran Turismo 3" as best selling with a {{DisputedAssertion}}, or adding two sentences stating that "Gran Turismo 3" is the best selling game, but "Kingdom Heart 2" is the hottest one. -- ReyBrujo 06:51, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Argh, people keep changing this. It was changed to Kingdom Hearts 2 and Gran Turismo 3 in the last 24 hours. It's actually Grand Theft Auto: Vice City, yes? Ace of Sevens 22:34, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Not really. Vice City is stil a few millions away. -- ReyBrujo 06:51, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

come on guys, it saya it right in the link. what more could you want? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.201.64.87 (talk • contribs) .

Vandlasim

Yesterday I removed the vandlasism from this talk page (see history). I don't know if any further action needs to be taken but I thought I would point it out. Oli 17:23, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

One wonders if you're capable of reverting such vandalism without creating too much in the process. Seriously, don't profess to be a help when you can't even spell the word. On either attempt. Deusfaux 06:25, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../p/l/a/Talk%7EPlayStation_2_Archive_2_ba49.html"