User talk:PKM

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You have new messages (last change).

Thanks for the links in the clothing article. I rewrote the article extensively, realized that links or articles were needed, and then never followed up. You've fixed a big problem! Zora 20:03, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Haute Couture

Any help is appreciated. That is what Wikipedia is all about. Thanks. Ted Wilkes 11:43, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)


Thanks =]; it does annoy me when users can't accept NPOV, especially over something relatively trivial like underwear, which is the reason behind my edits. Ralphael

[edit] Skirt and dress

Yes the last section could be improved as there are some today who push shorts and trousers as better than skirts and dresses. 211.28.226.101 07:27, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Hard work!

I just looked at your contribs and noticed that you've been doing a LOT of work. Thank you so much!

If and when you have time, take a look at the Sari article I just rewrote. You may find some errors, or have some good ideas about what else is needed. Zora 2 July 2005 01:24 (UTC)

Thanks for smock-frock. That was needed, and the illo is perfect. Zora 2 July 2005 19:37 (UTC)

[edit] Help on sari

I rewrote sari, thinking it was an abandoned article. It seems to have been the pet project of someone I am guessing is a South Indian male with strong ideas about links between the Indus Valley civilization and Tamil culture, the antiquity of saris, etc. He has restored much of his wretched prose and refuses to discuss matters (though it could be that he just checks in once a week or so to make sure that "his" article is still there). I would appreciate some help in pulling the article back towards a female and textile artist perspective.

BTW, this is the "bad" side of Wikipedia. I kinda hate to introduce you to it so early. Many editors are great collaborators. They don't hold onto their prose, listen to new ideas, make good suggestions, etc. However -- there are the fuggheads who have an idee fixe, who can't write worth beans, and resent any challenges. They will revert to their own version and refuse to discuss.

The usual wiki career is something like:

  1. I can make a difference in the world! I can fix this article!
  2. Sigh. So many damn idiots.
  3. I can't take it any longer. It's like shoveling dung. I quit.

I am approaching number 3! I think I have to just do what I can and realize it's going to take a long time for Wikipedia to mature.

Usually the clothing articles are fairly safe from this sort of thing, unless you run into a male with a fetish. Zora 6 July 2005 04:15 (UTC)

Don't worry about disillusioning me; been around online communities since 1991. When it stops being fun, I'll quit.
I don't know anything about saris, and really don't feel qualified to edit someone else's work there. Sorry.
Let's expand Jacobean embroidery instead! PKM 6 July 2005 23:22 (UTC)

[edit] Belted plaid

Thanks for the touch-up and photo in the Belted plaid article. Actually, I made a special point of trying to get a suitable image at the most recent Highland Games gathering which I attended, but could not find anyone wearing one with appropriate period accessories! I will continue looking.

I will attend the U.S. Highland Dance championships in Mount Vernon, WA (Skagit Valley Highland Games) this weekend and try again. I will also get some pictures of the dance outfits for a forthcoming article on the Aboyne dress, a female highland dance outfit. There is a Scottish highland dance article, much expanded by myself recently, but it still needs a section on hgihland dance attire.

JFPerry 6 July 2005 17:29 (UTC)

In addition to material for the Aboyne dress article and Highland dance photos, it looks like I will be able to get some photos for another upcoming article - on the Inverness rain cape. Sigh! JFPerry 8 July 2005 22:32 (UTC)


[edit] Kilt-skirt definiton

In the Skirt article, I re-cast the definition of kilt-skirt (I forgot to log in, but it was me). It is difficult if not impossible to define this term so as to diferentiate it from a traditional (man's) kilt without resorting to artificial (registered with the Lyon Court) or societal (fashioned as women's wear) conventions. The main differences are that the kilt is pleated to the sett or stripe (requiring a lot more fabric). This would affect how it hangs (pleats hang straight down or flared). Also, the kilt will be made of twill woven worsted wool, the kilt-skirt could be made of a variety of fabrics. Tartan is a word which used to refer to a type of fabric, but its current usage refers to a certain plaid pattern (repeating and reversing, warp and weft identical, registered with the Lyon Court). The kilt pin is not fastened through both aprons, only the front. I do not know how girls wear the kilt pin on a kilt-skirt (through the front apron only, or through both).

There is a really funny picture of what is mis-identified as a kilt on Wikimedia Commons. The filename is Kilt.JPG. It is also "copyvio" tagged. I hope it will be deleted. It is that sort of photo which gives open-source work like the Commons or Wikipedia a bad name.

JFPerry 17:24, 17 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] How to destroy a Spanish village while searching for El Dorado

You added this to Walter Raleigh: "Raleigh was released from the Tower in 1616 to conduct a second expedition to the Orinoco in search of El Dorado, in the course of which he destroyed a Spanish town." If you have more information about this, it would be interesting to know how, why, and where he managed to destroy a Spanish town while searching El Dorado. Rl 07:11, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Well, "Spanish colonial outpost" might be more accurate. Sources:
http://www.bartleby.com/65/ra/RaleighW.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/historic_figures/raleigh_walter.shtml
http://www.britannia.com/bios/raleigh/america.html
Hadn't remembered that Raleigh's son Wat was killed in the sack of San Thome; should probably add that. PKM 00:39, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Help with Clothing requested

Hullo PKM, we've got an editor named Andycjp who feels that a quote from Genesis is necessary in the section on the history of clothing. He's added it twice, I've deleted it twice. He may well add it again -- he's feeling aggrieved and opines that if I don't like the Bible getting special treatment, I should add quotations from all other human mythologies to balance it out. Oy! Please help me keep him reverted. Zora 07:59, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Mourning

Thank you for your note. There's a reply at the place where people leave me messages Quill 07:10, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Campo de Cahuenga

Great work on Campo de Cahuenga. Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia. -Willmcw 21:46, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

My real goal is to get a good article going on Directoire/Empire/Regency styles that would provide a lot more information than the current skimpy and illustrationless Empire silhouette article. I have a site at http://www.pemberley.com/janeinfo/ppbrokil.html , but I'm rather unsure what to copy over, and how to adapt it to Wikipedia requirements. See Talk:English Regency. Churchh 15:41, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for work on darning

You really finished off the article in style! Thanks so much for the good edits!

Hmmm, as I wrote that, I had an idea. Darning in literature? I know that the heroine of Charlotte Bronte's The Professor takes up the profession of lace-mending. I don't have refs, but as I recall, Victorian novelists made a point of describing faded gentility as wearing darned clothing -- but it was carefully darned. Indicative of self-respect. You have any other thoughts? Zora 19:17, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Expand net darning and pattern darning as much as you please, IN the current article, and if they start looking ungainly, then move them out.
I'm glad you have the old book to scan. I have a lovely edition of Therese de Dillmont's Encyclopedia of Needlework (the reason I know about pattern darning) but it's modern edition of the 1880s book, so there are copyright issues.
I'm on a Victoriana mailing list (which seems to be on hiatus now) and when it starts up again, I'll ask re literature and darning. Those college professors love finding cites.
We also need an article on patching, yes? Zora 20:09, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Costume blog

If I haven't already recommended it (forgive me if I have), I'll take the liberty to mention a blog called Demodé [1]. The author belongs to a costume guild and is fascinated by movie costume design. Why, I even rented The Affair of the Necklace at her instigation. I ended up "watching" it with the sound off and the movie on fast forward, so I could skip the plot and acting and focus on the costumes <g>. Anyhoo, she has a long section on costume in cinema. You'd love it. Zora 20:35, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] I think you'll enjoy this!

Play a Victorian dress-up game. [2] Zora 22:47, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Where angels fear to tread (kilts, etc)

In the spirit of being bold, I have just created and posted an article with the somewhat convoluted title of Kilt, kilt-skirt, and skirt: what's the difference. Meant originally as an article on kiltmaking, with illustrations showing in detail the construction of the kilt and the process of making such a garment, I decided to address the more general question of just what is, and what is not, a kilt. This comparison method allows certain common misconceptions to be discussed, but also runs the risk of POV problems.

I am not entirely satisfied with the photos. One major project of mine this year when the Highland Games season gets under way is to build the Highland dress and Highland games photo libraries on Wikimedia Commons with quality high resolution images.

Please take a look at the article. Leave any comments thereon on the talk page of that article. JFPerry 14:48, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Men's 1795-1820

There are some relevant pics at commons:Category:1810s_fashion - Churchh 02:32, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

  • Excellent editing in European fashion! --Wetman 14:23, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Better Scan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:1833_fashion_plate.jpg

Can you scan this in high dissolution? The line is smal in the original.Håbet 22:27, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

I didn't do the original scan. Let me see if I can locate the original. - PKM 16:48, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More excellent stuff!

You continue to turn out ells of excellent yardage! Wikipedia at its best. --Wetman 20:18, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Thank you! - PKM 20:31, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Commons category

Unfortunately, the category commons:Category:1600s clothing you established on Commons is redundant with the existing category commons:Category:17th century fashion - Churchh 03:59, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I guess I corrected the commons category on commons:Image:Metsu virginal.jpg witrhout even noticing that it was uploaded by you! Churchh 08:35, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
All moved to commons:Category:17th century fashion. Thanks. - PKM 02:34, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Editrix categorization foofaraw

Maybe you can weigh in on User talk:TheEditrix -- user "Editrix" created a European clothing (historic) category, and moved about half the items from History of fashion to her new category (completely randomly and arbitrarily, from anything that I can figure out), and is going around to a lot of clothing articles and replacing general categories with often inappropriately narrow ones (as I explained in the linked talk page discussion). Churchh 04:19, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] E-mail

My e-mail isn't working too well nowadays -- I have about three accounts, and they're all basically immobilized by spam... Churchh 23:28, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Interested in another project?

I have just started a new wiki at Craftacular.com. It runs on the same software as wikipedia, but the goal is a little different.

I am working to make it a central resource for all things related to crafts. A central, on-line repositiory of patterns, techniques, tutorials, tip & tricks, etc that people can use as a resource. It will be a place that encourages opinions. I'm (obviously) just getting started, but I'm reaching out to crafters to ask them if they'd be willing to contribute some of their expertise or help me get the word out.

I appreciate any help that you can lend. From the article you've written here, it's clear that you know a lot about fashion and costume design. It's going to take a lot more people than just myself to get this baby up to its full potential.

Also, please let me know if this comment is unwelcome. It's my understanding from reading wikipedia's rule/terms of use that this would be an appropriate place for a post like this. Thanks!

Thanks for the heads-up. At the moment, I am facing cutting back on Wikipedia for a short time to work on another project, but I will certainly take a look at what you are up to, and quite possibly contribute where I can. - PKM 18:36, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Identity query

Are you by chance a rasseffer of my acquaintance? If not, just delete this cryptic note and pardon the intrusion.--Orange Mike 03:18, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

A rasseffer is an habitue or inhabitant of the Usenet newsgroup rec.arts.sf.fandom. Your fields of interest match a couple of such folks I know, and I wondered (though PKM are not the initials of either of them).--Orange Mike 00:41, 20 November 2006 (UTC) (In the Knowne Worlde since A.S. VI.)

[edit] Chaperon

Hi, Time to update that User page, as you are clearly no longer "new to Wikipedia"!

Do you know if there is an article on the medieval chaperon? - French/Burgundian name for the male head-gear - round hat (bourrelet) with two long wide tails (cornettes). I can't see one, but there are probably more names for it than I am aware of. Thanks Johnbod 14:39, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

It's at Chaperon (headgear), though it could use some expanding. Do you know things about Burgundian etc. costume? We could use some of that! - PKM 18:41, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Ok thanks - I can add to that. Do hats not count as clothing then? Wimple & snood are so categorised, so I imagine I should change this. I come at clothing from the art history angle - the description of the Arnolfini Portrait is my main effort on the subject so far; clothing as such is not really an interest of mine. Johnbod 19:00, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Things that go on the head seem to be subcategorized as headgear rather than clothing - it was that way when I got here. I come at art history from the clothing angle. Just read your Talk pages - nice work you've been doing. Let me know if you need any images, especially 16th-19th century. - PKM 19:06, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks - I will! Johnbod 19:08, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Well actually, these two would be very handy:

Van der Weyden in Brussels Bibliotheque Royale:[3] - just the miniature ideally; here's a poorer version (I think - maybe just bigger?) of the same work: [4]

Pisanello in the NGA,DC (although there would be other copies, but Google finds none online): [5] or, sharper: [6]

The V d W would be the most useful by far. Many thanks if you can do anything. Both artists have Commons categories. I have got on quite well with the article off-line Johnbod 03:55, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Let me do some digging. - PKM 17:54, 30 December 2006 (UTC)
Many thanks for your help - it's now up. Do have a look & change anything Johnbod 16:23, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Middle-earth invitation

Hello, PKM!

Thank you for your contributions to a Tolkien-related article. If you are interested, feel free to join WikiProject Middle-earth, a WikiProject focused on improving Tolkien-related articles in Wikipedia. We would be glad to have you join in the effort!

Here're some good links and subpages related to the WikiProject.


WikiProject Middle-earth subpages

Project:

Front page - Main discussion - Standards - Things to do - Assessment - Templates - Images - Watchlist (Recent changes)

Other:

Middle-earth Portal (Recent changes)

If you have any questions or concerns, don't hesitate to ask on our talk page.

Thank you for your contributions and have fun editing! Uthanc 06:48, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Which bastard...?

Many thanks to both you and John for your help with the paintings of Antoine, bastard of Burgundy. Both the van der Weyden and the Memling are such superb paintings, I am left only with the embarras du choix!

Having been extremely interested in Burgundian dress of that period (the 1470's), I must have a look at your contributions...

With all good wishes, Nick Michael 09:44, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I clicked on 1400-1500 in fashion and was amazed to see - nothing! But it would be an intimidating task to cover such a huge period and subject, and although I have studied the subject for many years, I have really only covered the 1470's: rather too specialised for Wikipedia I would think. Furthermore, I've never really written on fashion and don't think I am quite qualified to do so. So it'll have to wait for a better man (person, sorry) than me... Nick Michael 20:59, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Heh, intimidating is the word. I am tempted to trun it into a redirect to something. Thinking... - PKM 22:23, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes, as I said in my edit summary (having linked to chaperon), it is really irresponsible to set up an article like that. I'm afraid I can't see myself doing anything much - I know less than Nick. The only useful thing I think to be done until someone properly qualified gets involved is to turn it into a list of links, with brief descriptions, to other articles with relevant info. This would actually be something, as there are a lot of articles in the category & I & most people won't really know which have anything on that century. Otherwise, is there anywhere to redirect it to? Johnbod 02:06, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Scans of Tolkien-related book covers

I noticed your scans of book covers, and your addition of some (all?) of them to the Images page at the WikiProject. Thanks for that. I was going to do some scans, but you beat me to it! :-) I wonder if you had any thoughts on where the line should be drawn on Tolkien-related books in terms of which should have articles? It might also be possible to do a list of the 'lesser' books, with a short stub on each and a scan of the book cover. What do you think? It would be terribly easy to go overboard, but I think something tasteful could be done fairly easily. As for book articles crying out for covers, what about these ones?

I suppose one problem is whether to use scans of the covers of US or UK editions? I have UK editions. Carcharoth 22:47, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't have all of those, but as it happens the Legendarium is sitting here next to the scanner... Some images can be found on the publisher's sites as well (and at http://www.tolkienbooks.net), and uploading those should be acceptable under US Fair Use. I would suggest (as a rule of thumb) UK covers for volumes first published in the UK (or by UK authors in the case of simultaneous editions), US for volumes first published in the US or by US authors. I also think we should follow the practice of Wikiproject:Novels and use first edition covers where available.
All of my Mythlores are antique! We should really use a recent cover for that - or at least a post-fanzine phase cover - will see what the MythSoc site has on offer. The dust jacket for my US copy of Letters is too well-worn to use.
I've been thinking about where to draw the line on reference books as well - it's going to be tricky. I would say we can include individual articles on books by the major scholars (Flieger, Shippey, Anderson, et al.) if anyone wants to bother to make them, but we should have complete infoboxes and possibly site critical commentary. We should include "popular" references if they are historically significant (which is why I did both editions of Foster), best-sellers, or otherwise influential (yes, that's fuzzy). The Tolkien's Ring article is pretty slim and I'd agree to merging it into a list unless we can cite some critical significance or later influence. But we should probably have an article on Tolkien and the Great War (and add it to the biography list on JRRT page?), which would be easier if I actually owned a copy.
Anyway, assume I will work on book covers as time permits, between clothing articles.  :-) - PKM 23:18, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks! I have a copy of Tolkien and the Great War, but I think an article will need to be done first! :-) Carcharoth 23:49, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
I meant "cite" not "site" up there. I do know the difference. - PKM 02:28, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Additional criterion: We should have an entry for any JRRT nonfiction book that won the Mythopoeic Scholarship Award for Inklings Studies or a Hugo, etc. -PKM 03:40, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Agreed. There are 16 of those so far:
I have some of these (marked above with *), but not all of them. Carcharoth 13:49, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
I have the ones marked + and I can probably do stubs on some of the ones we don't have, over time. I'll certainly do Beowulf and the Critics - was thinking about that earlier today before I read your note, in fact. Real life may infringe on my wiki time for a while, but I'll work on things as I can. - PKM 18:28, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
PS I have moved this list to the Things to do page so we can track them there. I can't do them all! - PKM 22:53, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject?

Hi Paula Kate, it's Willow again. How've you been? I see that you're still doing wonderful things for fashion! :) I've been a little distracted from knitting and fashion for a few months myself. :(

I'm thinking about starting a WikiProject for Textile Arts, and was wondering if you'd like to join. My main reason is that it'd be nice to take advantage of this great automated system for tracking the progress of articles, the Mathbot. Disclaimers nonwithstanding, I get the impression that the resulting quality and importance ratings are used for judging the progress of fields and deciding whether articles should be included in print editions. Also, untagged artices are apt to get tagged by less appropriate WikiProjects, e.g., Talk:Sweater curse.

All we need are five editors who contribute regularly to textile-related articles to say that they'd like to form a WikiProject. It might grow into something nice, too, something that might attract other interested editors to Wikipedia. Please let me know if you're interested, and if you know of others who might be as well — perhaps Churchh? His nemesis seems to have departed. ;)

Thanks for your help and keep up the good work, which makes many of us happy, Willow 01:19, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

PS. In case it matters, I'd be happy to do the technical stuff, like making templates and setting up the Mathbot.

I'm in! Soon I will have no life (three projects not counting clothing!)
But yes, I still want to do a lot of work on embroidery and I want to learn more about lace, so I would be happy to join the textile arts project.
And then one day - WikiProject:Clothing - PKM 03:37, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi PK, thanks very much for the quick reply! :) I know what you mean about "no life". It's probably the worst time for me to start a WikiProject, but I've been brooding on it for some time; a little alarm clock went off in my head, saying "Time's up! Start doing something about it." ;) Luckily, I have a little experience from my wonderful friends over at Wikipedia:WikiProject Molecular and Cellular Biology; I plan on plagarizing their hard work without the smallest compunction. ;D We'll see if people are interested; I sent out several messages this morning. Indeed, if enough people become interested, we could split off the clothing and fashion design parts into their own WikiProject. My only thought is that we're stronger together, less likely to suffer attrition, which seems to be the bane of WikiProjects. Besides, it would be a pity if the weavers and knitters didn't hobnob with the clothing mavens, don't you think? :) Talk to you soon, Willow 10:47, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Good point! Works for me. BTW, I think Wikipedia:WikiProject Lace has died, and we should pick up where they left off. - PKM 20:28, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I totally agree; their work will help pave a smoother way for us, and we can carry on their work in turn. I started a proposal here; if you would sign up, that'd be great! Thanks muchly, gotta dash off to work, Willow 14:20, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Signed up. PKM 18:06, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Hi, guess what? The bird is aloft! :) Check out this page and have fun adding your own articles. :) Willow 13:27, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Excellent!! - PKM 17:48, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] science fiction studies

Hi PKM -- I just started Science fiction studies and Category:Science fiction studies, so if you've got relevant stuff to go there, please do. (Nice to meet you, btw; I hope to be a northern californian myself, again, soon.) --lquilter 02:33, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Great! Nice to meet you too. I mostly only wiki on weekends, so it may be a week or so before I do much ... - PKM 03:39, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 1300-1400 in fashion

Hello! I recently started the article 1300-1400 in fashion. I've seen some of your work with the other articles in the History of Western fashion, so I just wondered if you might want to help out with this one. I've got a decent start, but it has still got a ways to go. Thanks!--Tabun1015 03:28, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Good start. This isn't precisely my period, but I will be happy to help. - PKM 07:03, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks--Tabun1015 13:54, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reply

I don't see any recent vandalism, so I wouldn't worry about it. Just keep up the good work maintaining it. John Reaves (talk) 07:42, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstar

The Original Barnstar
I hereby award you this barnstar for your continuing and invaluable help with the 1300-1400 in fashion article--Tabun1015 02:16, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Why, thank you! My first ever Barnstar! - PKM 02:18, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 14th century

Someone has {facted} my bit about the rich being sewn into their clothes & unsewn at night. I thought this was from Barbara Tuchman;A Distant Mirror, 1978, Alfred A Knopf Ltd but can't find it via the index. Do you by any chance have a reference? - I'm pretty sure it is right, though maybe for parties etc rather than all the time. The Bal des Ardents and the death of Charles the Bad of Navarre both certainly involved sewn-on clothes, though they are special cases.

Also you might add Laver's thing about the C14th start of fashion to the lead.

I've been doing some picture research, adding to the C15th commons fashion categories. Johnbod 16:09, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I am sure about the rich (women anyway) being sewn into their clothes later on, though I am not sure about this early. Will dig.
Great
Do you have a source for wood block printing on fabric this early? I know wood block is your area, but none of my costume or textile books supports that - what I have says that attempts at wood block printing on fabric were not successful in Europe because they couldn't figure out how to keep the dyes from running. Fast-dyed floral calicoes were a "revelation" when the East India Company brought them to Europe and they were quickly outlawed under pressure from the silk-weaving guilds, but by 1670 wood block printing on mordanted cloth was being practiced in Holland, France, and England. (Thus Tozer, Fabric of Society.) Janet Arnold writing on the 16th century says "printed" fabrics at this time were stamped with hot irons, not printed as we think of it. So. Would love a reputable source that says otherwise.
Will add; but no washing settings in my sources. If they could keep plain colours fast, then why not ....?
issue is the colors running - if the whole fabric is woad blue, it doesn't matter much if the dye runs.
I assume we're both channeling Blanche Payne, but I wish I had a more recent scholarly reference on this period. She relies heavily on Norris, which takes us back to the late 1920s, and I know some of what she says about 16th and 17th centuties is outdated, so that may be true of 1300-1500 as well.
I expect I've seen Blanche Payne. I get confused with all these glamorous web-mistresses & their glamourous names. This] looks the business.
Thanks for populated images for the next period; there are so many to choose from I am overwhelmed. - PKM 02:27, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
I'll try to get some more. These are turn of the C13/14th - nice clear images, with social mix. All boys.

Johnbod 02:54, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Oooh I want to use some of those! Thanks. - PKM 03:00, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
On the dyes, they may not have washed them very often, of course. The C15 (I think) Italians used flock-printed fabric (print in glue, springle on tinsel) for kids clothes for weddings etc - quite cheap imitation brocade, but it all came off when you washed it (or by bed-time).

I've added the b-p refs now. Johnbod 03:35, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks. - p.
The text of the Hunting Book is 13whatever; this MS is Paris 1405-10 (it was a bestseller, as you can imagine) Johnbod 03:48, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
Rats,have to move it then! - PKM 01:50, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Tolkien book covers

Hi there. I've been ferretting around Tolkien articles again, and I keep coming across ones that you've uploaded. Do you have a list somewhere, as a couple of them are a bit faded and yellowed (like the The Atlas of Middle-earth one), and I've been considering scanning and uploading some of my scans. Well, unless Wikipedia ditches fair-use images, which would be a major pain... Have you been following the debate on that? Carcharoth 16:58, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I have not been following that debate. Poor idea IMHO.
I don't have a list; scanned some of mine and grabbed some from the Tolkien bibliography site in the UK. -= PKM 04:22, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 1400-1500

I don't know if you noticed but this

on commons is a version of #5 in the mens 1400-50 gallery with I think much better/truer colour - needs cropping though.

It's shaping up nicely, i think Johnbod 03:24, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Oooh, thanks, yes, much better color. I'll do the crop. More fun than running through the Yorck project in the commons and slapping fashion tags on things. (Note to self:left off at Antonio Pollaiuolo...)
I think it's shaping up nicely too. - PKM 03:45, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
I've done all the Italian Renaissance painters on Commons (by that category). The frustrating thing for me is that there are lots of great prints from this period, but the images here & on the web are nearly all of appalling quality. A crop from Image:Van der weyden miniature.jpg - Philip the Good presentation (from Chaperon etc) could go into the earlier mens gallery - 1447-8. Johnbod 03:56, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
New higher-res can, just for you, John. Making crops now. - PKM 17:02, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
great thanks Johnbod 20:29, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
PS going on a business trip - may be scarce between Monday and Saturday - PKM 17:13, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
For an upper-working-class look, how about one of these gondoliers, or both?
. Good tips I guess. Johnbod 20:10, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Perfect! Added. Now we need a good clear image of poulaines that I can crop for footwear...
The Duke Of B's presentation (right) has some with pattens worn. or there's a print in 1460s commons cat with pattens alongside. I'm sure there are others. Johnbod 20:50, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
arnolfini, of course! Johnbod 20:53, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
That crop was already in the commons. Convenient. I saw your comments on Image:Franko-flämischer Meister 002.jpg - I knew there was something off about that image, but not the history (not my period!)- let me know if you think we should replace it with something else. -PKM 21:15, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
No - It's only above the hatline it can't be trusted, so I think it's fine. Another thing earlier restorers did is overpaint the chain of gold beads on the dress, now cleared off. The face has also been repainted a fair bit, but that is hardly at issue here. Johnbod 22:57, 25 March 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Congratulations on this one!

I went and assessed all your unassessed fashion articles (the history ones). Your work paid off as all but one made B-Class.

The one that didn't, 1400-1500 in fashion, got the first A-class I've handed out and only the second in the whole fashion project after someone else gave my work on Anna Wintour one. It's comprehensive and very well-cited. I think you should take it to peer review and prep it for a GA nom ... it would be nice for the project to have one. Daniel Case 05:30, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

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