Talk:Pittsburgh Steelers

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have new messages (last change).
 This article is part of WikiProject National Football League, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to the NFL on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.
A Wikipedian removed Pittsburgh Steelers from the good article list. There are suggestions below for improving areas to satisfy the good article criteria. Once the objections are addressed, renominate the article as a good article. If you disagree with the objections, you can seek a review.
Removal date: No date specified. Please edit template call function as follows: {{DelistedGA|insert date in any format here}}

herodecks URL? Should the herodecks URL be included, do not see much history on that page, but you can buy a deck of cards Stmoose 19:38, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Sorry if I'm doing this wrong, but should the "John Gillam" listed as taking Bradshaw's QB job really be "Joe Gilliam"?

For God's sakes people, if you're going to vandalize it and congratulate them, at least spell it right!!! bob rulz 03:57, Jan 12, 2005 (UTC)

It might be prudent to wait until the Super Bowl is actually played, as well. Khanartist 05:37, 2005 Jan 12 (UTC)

Bob rulz, in all fairness, "Roethlisburger" was the only real mistake there. To any native speaker of Pittsburghese, "Stillers" is the correct spelling. 10:05, 24 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Astroid vs. Hypocycloid

I'm no math expert, but doing a quick google clearly shows that the steerlers logo is made up of three astroids, which themselves are made up of hypocycloid arcs. Just look at the article for an astroid and tell me it doesn't look like the Steeler's logo. Charles 16:51, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

  • I called the Steelers office and asked them. Hypocycloid. Revert. Khanartist 18:21, 2005 Feb 17 (UTC)

What would someone in the front office know about it? According to http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Hypocycloid.html a hypocycloid describes an equation which can form astroids, deltoids, and an infinite other number of shapes. Unless you're willing to argue that this deltoid (curve) is what the Steelers logo looks like, I think astroid is the most accurate description of the logo, and I don't care if Emperor Noll himself says otherwise. Charles 18:59, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

  • Fine, Khanartist, you win. The Steelers inaccurately refer to the symbol as a hypocycloid, and until they change their mind, you're not going to accept any other authority on the matter, the truth be damned. And if the Steelers someday change their mind and start calling the symbol an apple pie, I'm sure you'll be there to "correct" the article to refer to the astroid as an apple pie. Charles 19:05, 24 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Duly noted. Khanartist 04:37, 2005 Feb 25 (UTC)
  • In answer to your query, I insist on changing it because the "source" you refer is is wrong. inaccurate. not correct. The steelers logo is and always has been three astroids. You refuse to debate the issue. You revert back to your version despite efforts at both discussion and compromise. Whatever. In a few months someone else will notice the mistake and try again, and perhaps by then you'll have moved on. Charles 15:59, 25 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I note that shortly after the above comment was written, an anon user appeared and changed hypocycloid to astroid as his first edit. Interesting. Khanartist 21:08, 2005 Feb 26 (UTC)
Don't look at me. I've never used a sock puppet, and I certainly wouldn't over such a stupid issue as this. I'd sooner suspect it's someone who's been following the debate (one-sided though it's been). After you rejected without comment my last attempt at compromise language, I said I was done, and I meant it. In fact, in the spirit of wikipedia, I apologize for suggesting that you held some blind allegiance to an arbitrary authority. My ridiculous apple pie comment was made in frustration. I also appreciate you actually calling the Steelers front office to see what their take is on the shape. I think we just disagree on the relative importance of the Steelers "official" nomenclature versus the mathematical term. One reason the Steelers might refer to it as a hypocycloid is that the term astroid might cause more confusion given it's similarity to asteroid. Better for them (albeit less accurate) to use a more obscure sounding term than one likely to cause confusion every time someone asks. Charles 14:45, 28 Feb 2005 (UTC)
The shape is clearly either an "astroid" or a "hypocycloid of four cusps". It's no more a "hypocycloid" than the overall shape of the logo is a "conic section". --Carnildo 19:29, 2 Mar 2005 (UTC)
I would say Carnildo has hit the nail on the head. The figure in question is a hypocycloid, but the term hypocycloid is insufficiently precise. It describes an infinite number of possible constructions, only one of which happens to resemble the figures in the Steelers' logo. Either astroid or hypocycloid of four cusps accurately and precisely describes the figures.
(Forgot to sign—the above comment is mine. TenOfAllTrades | Talk 16:13, 5 Mar 2005 (UTC))
Completely agree. – flamurai (t) 15:35, Mar 5, 2005 (UTC)
The most recent edit works for me. Charles 15:08, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, fellas. You're all wrong. The Steelers logo as it is currently constructed is based entirely on circular arcs. The astroid-like or hypocycloid-like shapes are constructed of overlapping arcs exactly one-half the radius of the inner gray border. You can prove this to yourself by copying the Wikipedia image (Image:PittsburghSteelers 100.png) to your computer drawing program (Paint Shop Pro or what-have-you), enlarging it 2x to 3x, then drawing a circle of appropriate size over the image to use as a gauge. It's a bit fuzzy due to the low resolution of the original, but without a doubt the curves are circular arcs. They didn't even follow the original 1930s US Steel "Steelmark" logo design accurately. Examples of the original logo [1][2] can be found on the Web in black & white where it is clear that the shapes were originally made by something more nearly resembling two hyperbolas superimposed at 90°. --QuicksilverT @ 07:23, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm not familiar enough with editing to make the change myself, but within the article the shapes are referred to as "asteroids", not astroids, and the link goes to the celestial body rather than the shape. If someone could correct that I would be much obliged, because all I would do is screw it up. Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 157.160.144.193 (talk • contribs).

Change made. Accurizer 19:42, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copyvio section

Copyrighted material from http://secure2.steelers.com/tradition/teamhistory/ has been posted twice onto portions of this article by 68.35.79.2 (talk · contributions) and has thus been reverted [3] [4]. If the author's permission is obtained later, the text can be restored. See Wikipedia:Copyrights for more information. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 05:58, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Improvement drive

National Football League is currently a candidate on WP:IDRIVE. Vote for it if you are interested!--Fenice 20:39, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The helmet

There's a BIG mistake in the helmet found in the infobox. It should be solid black, with no logo. Reason: The logo only appears on the right side of the helmet. The visible side is the left. Dale Arnett 03:55, 28 August 2005 (UTC)

That's a good catch. I think the best thing to do would just be to have the helmet pointing in the other direction. I actually did that and uploaded it, but when I looked at it, I noticed that the numbers were backward on my version, which was even worse in my opinion so I reversed it. The image was given by these folks: http://www.nationalchamps.net/Helmet_Project/ and in fairness to them, it does mention in their notes that the image is on the wrong side, but ehy wanted to be consistent with the rest of their helmets. The up-shot is that someone will have to do some photoshopping to fix the backwards number on the version I uploaded or create a new version. Alternatively we could just add a note to the image that it's on the other side. Charles (Kznf) 04:20, August 28, 2005 (UTC)

  • Yes, I was the one who uploaded all of those helmet images from the Helmet Project, because at the time that was the only source I found that had good quality images, including the new updated Arizona Cardinals helmet. I have since found another source and I am now considering replacing the Helmet Project ones with those. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 05:13, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
  • In addition, the image of the helmet links to the Philadelphia Eagles entry. I can't fix this, would someone else, please?

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.183.185.133 (talk • contribs) .

    • It seems to be your computer or web browser. It is working fine on my end. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 20:44, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Jerseys

I removed the parenthetical remarks about home and away jerseys. The NFL does not have specefic home and away jerseys. Although the steelers, like most other teams wear dark colors at home, it is only tradition, not mandated. They wear black on the road when playing teams who choose white at home, like the redskins and cowboys.

[edit] Tradition

Should the Immaculate Reception be mentioned somewhere in this article?

[edit] Protection?

Should this article be protected for a while? It seems all necessary updates have been made, and it may be in the best interest to prevent vandalism. Just a thought.MPD01605 03:55, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

As an outsider, I would say protect this thing. There might be conspiratists out there angry at the refs. BTW, Congrats Steelers and Steeler fans everywhere!! Dknights411 03:19, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Dknights. Article has already been vandalized.

I also think we should protect the Seahawks and Super Bowl articles, and possibly some others involved with the Super Bowl (incl. Bettis and Roethlisberger) only because if people can't edit this article as they wish, they will probably go to those others.MPD01605 03:55, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

No, this article is currently listed on the main page. As per WP:PP, "Articles linked from the main page should NOT be protected (full or semi) except to clean up vandalism. Protection should be kept to 10-15 minutes in these cases." Zzyzx11 (Talk) 04:00, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Protection now? This is getting a little ridiculous. Just my opinion though. MPD01605 03:47, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

There is not enough vandalism over a period of an hour to warrant protection yet. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 04:55, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article removed from Wikipedia:Good articles

This article was formerly listed as a good article, but was removed from the listing because no refrences -- —This unsigned comment was added by Tarret (talk • contribs) .

[edit] Notable moments

Looks like someone added a "Notable moments" section here. However, it suffers the same problem that National Football League lore#Honorable mentions and Super Bowl#Notable Super Bowl games suffer: What is the criteria for choosing which notable games to include here without making it POV or original research? Zzyzx11 (Talk) 05:34, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I uploaded the notable moments after taking a gander at the Cowboys page, as far as the POV, I am open to suggestions on it, however how could one possibly rank some of the greatest moments if one didnt have some sort of POV on the topic, at least enough of a POV to realize the heritage and pathos of the organization. I agree it is not something you want to encourage in an Encyclopedia but if you are going to list the notable moments I would think you would need someone that understood or lived the pathos of the topic, there is nothing notable about something you have zero pathos for, and yet to have the pathos immediately means you have a POV. I think the best result we can hope for is to balance it out and talk about a few that might be better for the history page for the Steelers.
As far as the references I will add the pages to my edits right now but these are my 3 main sources (besides memory),

As well as SuperBowl.com for factchecking and http://www.jt-sw.com/football/ for date checking.

Thanks and interested in opinions on this! Hholt01 07:39, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

The following notable moment listed on the wiki page seems to be incorrect:

"November 3, 1985, Cleveland Browns

Played in a driving rain storm the game was a slugfest. The long-time Steelers kicker Gary Anderson booted a 25 yard fieldgoal in a downpour with :09 on the game clock to win it 10-9 for Pittsburgh. It is of note that the best kicker in Steelers history had this as his SOLE last minute game deciding field goal of his long Pittsburgh career."

I recall that Anderson beat the Houston Oilers with a 50 yard field goal in overtime in a wildcard game in 1989 or 1990. Not sure how you definte "last minute game deciding," but I think pretty much any overtime winner should count as last minute. Also, even with a narrow definition of "last minute" that excludes the first 14 minutes of overtime, I still find it hard to believe that he only had one of those over his 12 or so years in Pittsburgh.

Agreed, this strikes me as pretty improbable. I *do* remember when Anderson was in contract negotiations with the Steelers him (or his agent) saying that Anderson had never missed a game deciding field goal in his career, though I don't have any reference for that either. Charles (Kznf) 18:52, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
Interesting point, I concur with the OT with the Oilers in late 89 early 90, I took that from the Mcmillenandwife site under the VHS stuff, I would be loathe to disagree with them since they have loads of experience with that but the Oilers game is curious, I think the "last minute" thing is as time expires the Steelers are down (not tied and not with another 14 minutes to make something happen). As far as his agent goes, agents are notorious for taking one isolated stat and forming a statement around it that appears as something it is not, (i.e. Bradshaw has never lost a game vs. Joe Montana . . . even though they only played against each other once). If someone can find a stat I would be more then happy to see it changed, but I would invite you to check out the McMillen and wife site under VHS. Hholt01 01:39, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I can guarantee you Three Rivers didn't "literally explode" after the Immaculate Reception; I saw it imploded years later. This writing is hardly encyclopedic. Geoffrey Spear 00:33, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree completely. This section reads as if it's being discussed by some buddies over beer. In addition, it's a little lengthy. I'm against inclusion of this section to begin with because of Zzyzx11's previous comments, but if you guys insist, maybe we can pare it down a little. Maybe limit it to 5 notables? Then we can concentrate on improving the writing. CPitt76 03:51, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
I went through and touched up this section, trying to make it a bit easier to read and adding links, etc. I think it's a good section to have, but agree that it should be cut a bit. I have only been a fan for twelve or so years, but I think there's too much on the Browns rivalry (nine out of nineteen games) and not enough between 1985 and 2006 (three out of nineteen). Martini76 17:50, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
Re: Notable Moments. That November 20, 1977 game against the Dallas Cowboys was definitely played at Three Rivers Stadium. I cite Abby Mendelson's book, "The Pittsburgh Steelers", which lists the dates, sites, and scores of every Steelers' game from 1933 to 1995 as one source. I have also seen NFL Films' highlight of Franco Harris' 61 yd touchdown run from that game, and the absence of markings on the field clearly indicate that the game was played in Pittsburgh. If it had been played at Texas Stadium, either that or the name, "Cowboys" would have marked the end zones. Aquarian6 20:36, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Not ONE game from 1985 to 1998 is defined as "memorable"? How about the Steelers beating the heavily favored Oilers in Week One of the 1992 season with help from a fake punt and a new blitzing role in Bill Cowher's first game? The 3-0 sweep of the Browns in the 1994(?) season that finished with a great playoff game where the Steelers used a play I had never seen before, the swinging gate? How about the 1995 AFC game with Aaron Bailey and the catch that wasn't?

The notable moments section is an editorial type addition - an does not belong here. Perhaps a reference to the Immaculate Reception is appropriate since it is often commonly acknowleged as one of the greatest plays in NFL history. The rest of these moments are only relevant to Steelers fans. Besides...don't you think that the other three superbowl victories are notable moments???

[edit] Requested move

You guys might be interested in a requested move I've recently proposed that's nearly finished: at Talk:Steelers. Patstuart(talk)(contribs) 20:29, 2 December 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Lack of cheerleaders worth noting?

A notable item that seems to be missing from the article is that the Pittsburgh Steelers are one of the few football franchises without cheerleaders. It would be an interesting item to add to the "Traditions" section of the article, assuming someone can find a good reference to cite. Dugwiki 21:00, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Good idea. Added -- Knobunc 01:19, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

I added info on the Steelerettes. I'm still looking for mascot info. They had a mascot once, and then continued to use a stuffed mascot that looks like a young boy steel worker. --Write On 1983 00:31, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mike Tomlin and other prospective coaches

The Steelers have not officially announced a head coach today, as per this message and the lack of news on it from their official website, "At this point and time, the Steelers have not concluded a contract agreement with a new head coach, nor do we expect to do so today. There will be no other announcements from this office today." [5] Darthgriz98 00:44, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

The website now states that Tomlin will be introduced as the new head coach at the press conference today, but I find it odd that the edit summary the last time he was added to the page said "It's official" and then cited the 49ers blog on AOL sports, which in turn cited a rumor repeated on fox sports. So much for WP:RS. Geoffrey Spear 17:03, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
I added this, it said on several websites he had accepted the offer to the Steelers, this was just the first site I could find to explicily stated that. The only thing they had to work out was the contract, but, I stress, he had officially accepted the position of head coach for the team. I'm sorry if it was not reliable enough alone, but this was on many other news sites. --WillMak050389 03:27, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Simon Eccleston?

I'm deleting him from the coaching staff because I'm not sure he exists. There is no mention of him in the post-gazette.com archive or the Steelers' official site, and a google search for "Simon Eccleston" and "Steelers" turns up mostly wikis. Bongwarrior 09:13, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Move season records?

I'd like to move the season records to a new page, similar to the featured Chicago Bears seasons. I'd be happy to color-code it, etc. Comments? Kermitmorningstar 12:54, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name change from Pirates to Steelers

The name was changed in the 1940 season, not 1941. Some citations for this (forgive me; I'm not familiar with Wiki formatting): Obiturary in Post-Gazette for man who chose the name, Professional Football Researchers Association. The best evidence I have seen for the 1940 date is published in The Steelers Reader, edited by Roberts and Welky. It contains several articles from Pittsburgh newspapers dated 1940 which call the team the Steelers, not the Pirates.

I don't know why the NFL has published information giving the 1941 date for the name change. It may be because that was the year that Art Rooney sold the Steelers to Alexis Thompson, starting off a sequence of events where a lot of franchises changed hands, but Rooney ultimately ended up once again back in Pittsburgh with a team named the Steelers before the 1941 season started. (The Professional Football Researchers Association article I posted a link to has more details on this.) But there seems to be ample evidence that the team was called the Steelers, not the Pirates, in the 1940 season.

[edit] Unsourced

I added the unsourced tag as this article doesn't have inline references or cite it's sources well enough. See the Chicago Bears for a good example. Tayquan hollaMy work 19:30, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../p/i/t/Talk%7EPittsburgh_Steelers_878b.html"