Talk:Pittsburgh Penguins

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Contents 1 List of Penguins players 1.1 Alternate Logo? 1.2 Captain ´94-´95 2 Lemieux shoots L??? 3 unknown aquired dates 4 Aleksey Morozov or Alexei Morozov? 5 It's Aleksey 6 Jack Riley 7 Other Notable... 8 Rivals 9 HOFers 10 Captain 11 Owner 12 Penguins Sold 13 Casino Bid Failed 14 Realignment, Red Wings move 15 Pens Fans 16 Writing the names 17 What was the decision? 18 Ronald Petrovický 19 Relocation overdone?

[edit] List of Penguins players

There is a List of Pittsburgh Penguins players. when you add players to the main Penguins page, could you also add the players to the list? thanks! Masterhatch 10 August 2005

[edit] Alternate Logo?

Are they actually using that streamlined logo as an alternate these day? Yeah, it was the primary during the 90ies, but I thought they *rightfully* put it to bed. ccwaters 12:40, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

I'm going to rename that to something along the line of "Old Logo (1992-2002)" unless there are objections. I don't see any evidence of it being in use anymore. I'm fairly certain that there is a jinx story related to it in Pittsburgh. Maybe we should get a updated photo of Mario as well? ccwaters 19:22, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

This logo hasn't been entirely retired; it's still on the shoulders of their current jerseys. So "old logo" isn't really accurate. wthrw 18:45, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Captain ´94-´95

Wasn't Francis captain during the ´94-´95 season when Mario didn't play? Killer 01:56, 14 October 2005 (Swedish Time)

Yes. RGTraynor 01:02, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Curious Reader: I beg to differ, although Ron Francis did indeed wear the 'C' that season, while Lemieux sat out ,to recover from his injuries. Lemieux didn't retire, or resign the captaincy, thus Francis served offically as Interim Captain, had Lemieux returned during that season ,Ronnie would have worn the 'A'. In other words Lemieux was still 'Offically' Team Captain. Therefore Ronnie shouldn't be listed as captain of the Penguins ,for the 1994-95 season. Lemieux's captaincy should read: 1987-97 & 2001-present. PS. if a player(s) on every team ,who wore the 'C' while the captain was out of the line-up ,was listed as a captain ,then there'd be hundreds of names listed in each Team site.

Francis was listed as the team captain in 94-95 by the NHL Media Guide, which is about as "official" as you can get. RGTraynor 04:50, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

O.K. RGTraynor, If the NHL Media Guide say he was ,then he was. I can't argue with the facts. Thanks for the clarification RG, you've put my hockey-mind at ease. Plus all the better , for I'm a big fan of Ronnie Francis (Hall of Famer defintely in 2008). 23 October 2005

[edit] Lemieux shoots L???

Dosen't Lemieux shoot R? And Sid shoot L? In the current squadlist is says that Lemieux shoots L and Sid shoots R. And almost all the players are wrong do (in the shoot list)Killer 00:12, 2 November 2005 (CET)

Lemieux does shoot right handed, and Crosby shoots left handed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dr. Pizza (talk • contribs) 16:03, 8 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] unknown aquired dates

I noticed that there are several "unknowns" in the aquired dates. I have to leave for work now and I don't have time to fix it, but here is the site with all the aquired dates tsn Masterhatch 03:05, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Aleksey Morozov or Alexei Morozov?

which is the correct way to spell his name? Alexei Morozov seems more common but i see both spellings. hockeydb.com uses Alexei Morozov while tsn.ca uses Aleksey Morozov. Masterhatch 05:39, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] It's Aleksey

When he was drafted in 1995, the media used Alexei because that was the more common form of the name, and Russian names weren't very well-known at the time. He formally changed it himself after his rookie season to the correct spelling. Penguin media guides from 1998-1999 and later have him listed as Aleksey.SportsEditor 02:10, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Thanks!! Masterhatch 03:12, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jack Riley

Is the Jack Riley born in 1935 that was the GM of the Pens at their start ?

I think it's quite strange because in his bio, there is no mention of the team.

No; the Pens' GM was a former hockey player born in 1919. It's not an unusual name. RGTraynor 05:47, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Other Notable...

SportsEditor- the section you added is certainly valid in its intention. However: we have had similar lists in all the NHL team articles before under the heading "Not to be forgotten". These lists quickly became useless short sighted fan favorite listings (IE the Flyers listing was 75% players from the late 90ies-to-present). We at WP:HOCKEY decided a while ago that the lists were too problematic to maintain (I can look for the archived discussion if you wish). That is why I kindly ask you to remove the section and if you feel there is someone that lacks a deserving mention, please intergrate them into the article copy. ccwaters 13:34, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I've just removed it myself; that's a can of worms we definitely can't afford to have reopened. I've also reverted the HHOF section to conform to the Team Pages Format once more. RGTraynor 16:47, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

The article copy is too brief to mention each and every one of those names without the size getting completely out of hand...You might as well attach a media guide. That's why I favor the condensed list. For instance, in 39 years of Penguins history, Patrick Lalime's rookie start amounts to a mere blip on the radar, especially given that he only played one season here. But I felt that he deserved at least a footnote. As does future Hall of Famer Luc Robitaille -- he only played here in the strike-shortened 1995 season (not to mention a cameo in the worst hockey movie ever produced by an actual hockey owner, Sudden Death). And Herb Brooks, with just a partial season as Pens head coach to his credit. Yet the copy points out such luminaries as Milan Kraft, Kris Beech, and the other parts of the Jagr trade. Why not Rico Fata while we're at it? Looks like the WikiNazis win...I won't try to add anything that anyone might possibly find helpful. Perhaps the Wiki buzzword should be "delete." Funny how those "cans of worms" can work for the team pages in other sports.SportsEditor 03:55, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

In which case perhaps they weren't worth mentioning in the first place; this is an encyclopedia article, not a full-length book on the Penguins' history. As far as other sports go, the other Wikiprojects tend to their knitting, and we tend to ours; I have quite enough on my own dinner plate without provoking cross-sport crusades. In any event, I'm sorry you feel the need to characterize as "Nazi" the general consensus here on WP:HOCKEY for more concise articles than you yourself prefer. RGTraynor 05:45, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Alas, my point has sailed over your head higher than the space shuttle, or you didn't even bother to read my opening statement. Saying something like "That's why I favor the condensed list" obviously means to you that I'd prefer to write a book. One person tells me to include those players in the article copy, while another tells me it's not a full-length book. For what's supposed to be a general consensus, you guys certainly can't agree.

Point two: You might say that the Nazis had no room for creativity. Regardless of how many people are active at WP:HOCKEY, it seems like it's controlled by only a few people, similarly with no room for creativity.

And one more thing, RG...Herb Brooks was elected to the Hall of Fame today. Uh-oh, is he eligible for inclusion in the Hall of Fame section? Unfortunately, he spent only a partial season as the Pens' head coach and is therefore nonexistant in the eyes of WikiNation. Sorry, Herb...the self-important powers-that-be have judged you to be irrelevant. In the words of RG, "not worth mentioning in the first place." Maybe you can make it on the strength of your scouting career.

Maybe you should spend more time patrolling the team rosters to stop people from changing the players' birthplaces to completely inaccurate locations, instead of deleting genuine resources. I'm pretty sure Joe Melichar isn't from Southern Bohemia, and that's been posted on there for quite a while.SportsEditor 23:23, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Melichar is from Southern Bohemia the same way Malone is from Pennsylvania.

Perhaps you should take a look at WP:CIVIL while you're at it. That being said, while you mention Brooks, you're right: he wouldn't be cited on the Pens' HHOF list. Nor on that of any other NHL team, because based on his NHL career, Brooks wouldn't have come remotely close to induction. But based on your preference, would Bobby Orr and Gerry Cheevers be on the Hartford/Carolina list, because they were hired by the organization as consultants at some point? Should Wayne Gretzky be on the Phoenix list? Vladislav Tretiak on the Chicago list ... he's been a coach/consultant for the Hawks for about fifteen years? In any event, they're all cited in the general HHOF list. The point with team lists is to include those players and builders who are significantly associated with the teams in question, and we've not felt a need to associate every HHOF member with a current NHL team list just to pad the totals. If that bothers you enough, feel free to hit the Team Pages Format talk page and try to change consensus to your POV. (And, by the bye, it doesn't look like Josef Melichar's birthplace cite troubled you enough to correct yourself.) RGTraynor 07:12, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rivals

Is there a source listing the rivals of the Penguins? I see a rivalry in the Flyers and the Devils. The inclusion of the Rangers and Capitals may be more of an opinion, in my opinion.

[edit] HOFers

I wanted to add in Herb Brooks, seeing as he had a couple years with the Pens organization, even though he was only coach for such a brief time. But this raises a question...what makes a Hall of Famer on this list? Should we include only those players/people who had a significant impact on the team, or should we include everyone? For instance, Tim Horton isn't listed, but then he didn't really make much of a mark in Pittsburgh. In another regard, Red Kelly isn't mentioned...although the argument is that he's in the Hall as a player and not as a coach. Will Luc Robitaille be included when he gets inducted? Anyone have any thoughts on this? Exoterrick 15:51, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

That's what I get for not reading previous paragraphs, will take Brooks out. But am still curious about other HOFers that aren't listed (Bathgate on there but no Boivin?) Exoterrick 16:04, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Bathgate was at least the first leading scorer for the team. I wouldn't say Robitaille would qualify; he played a single season in Pittsburgh, was 4th in team scoring that year, and had no other significant accomplishments there. With Kelly, that's the argument exactly: the criteria is that a player/coach/builder's time with the team must have reasonably had a material contribution to his election to the Hall. Leaving aside Kelly's painfully mediocre record as a coach, he was inducted before he came to Pittsburgh. RGTraynor 18:36, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Captain

Unless you can provide a reference, please refrain from listing Sidney Crosby as the Penguins captain. Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Geoffrey Spear 13:49, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Penguins have announced, they're not naming a captain this season (2006-07 NHL season). This thus ends all speculations. GoodDay 20:56, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Owner

Research in Motion didn't buy the Penguins, a RIM CEO Jim Balsillie did.

[edit] Penguins Sold

I'm just curious: you make the future of the team in Pittsburgh sound more bleak than the other sources I've seen. For instance, I'd heard Balsillie cooled on a move to Hamilton when "financial guys" crunched the numbers for him and projected an annual loss of 8 figures for a number of years (can't recall where I read that, though). And the league, it seems, has made it pretty clear they won't allow a move anywhere unless all possible funding sources for a new arena fail to materialize. EdinPasCA 19:21, 9 October 2006 (UTC)eaheup

[edit] Casino Bid Failed

The Isle of Capri slots bid was denied. I commented out the now out of date paragraph regarding them and the arena offer. I would hope to here a comment from the NHL or the Penguins about how they plan on moving forward, before rewriting that paragraph. ccwaters 17:22, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Official statement: http://www.pittsburghpenguins.com/team/press/arts/2212.0.php ccwaters 17:41, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

That paragraph has been updated, but I'm not particularly happy with the wording. If "The Penguins fate rested" with the decision, does that mean we should expect Thursday's game to be cancelled and immediate dispersal draft be held to let the rest of the league take their players? Certainly the IOC plan would have been the easiest way for the Penguins to get a new arena, but the way it's worded now is rather crystal ball-ish. Geoffrey Spear 18:30, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Ditto. They're not dead yet. Its not an obit. ccwaters 18:34, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Realignment, Red Wings move

I've removed the sentence about a Penguins move causing a realignment and rumors that the Red Wings would move to the East to replace the Penguins. The NHL is considering a realignment, but it's completely unrelated to the Penguins; it has more to do with the complaints by Western teams that the current alignment is unfair because they have to travel further to play their games (and, of course, that they get Crosby and Ovechkin in their home arenas once every 3 years)[1] Geoffrey Spear 16:32, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

It's just as well (removing that sentence), as the Penguins haven't relocated & re-alignment is merely in a proposal stage. GoodDay 03:52, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pens Fans

Hi everyone
first of all, I must say that I'm French and I don't speak english very well so excuse my writting.
I'm working a lot on the pens articles on the french wikipedia and I had nominated the Pittsburgh Penguins de Pittsburgh page to be Featured article. Some users ask me facts about Pens fans but I can't find anything. Can anyone could help me ?
TaraO 12:48, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Writing the names

Although there is an ever ongoing debate about the spelling of the names also at it's own page, I would like to remind that there is certainly no consensus for writing such names wrong. It is naturally acceptable, when an author without sufficient knowledge of the affected languages uses more familiar "A-Z" ways of spelling, but pushing this way also against the more correct spelling is simply wrong - personal names are not translated in the English language (and Latin names are not transliterated). -Mz55 23:04, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

When the English language begins to use diacriticals, when the NHL begins to use them, when the teams begin to use them, when the media begins to use them, and when the European Wikipedias conform to English usages when rendering English-language proper names, then perhaps an argument about how "correct" such spellings are will hold some weight. Right now, in the English language, they are incorrect, and no amount of implication that English language users are ignorant for using the English language alters that. RGTraynor 03:14, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

The English language DOES use diacritics, take café, rosé, résumé, frappé, soufflé, exposé... as examples. Words of foreign origin, surely, but so are these names, too, indeed. I might agree to it being ignorant to demand wrong spelling for personal names when not necessary, but also then it would still be equally ignorant towards the English language (a language rather full of loans from other languages, just as the NHL is enriched by the players in question) as well.

As I have pointed out, to me it is perfectly acceptable that a North American user (or journalist) writes about Jagr, Selanne or Hasek, but to actually oppose the correct writing when it is technically possible, as said, easily creates some unnecessary thoughts about the ignorance of the other. -Mz55 03:42, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Due to the attempts at other articles (where this specific talk page is by some apparently not considered to apply) I also opened a discussion at the more chaotic project page. I expect that to apply to all NHL related articles. -Mz55 15:53, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Just to let editors know, a consensus was reached at Talk:Colorado Avalanche concerning all 30 NHL team articles. The consensus is? No diacritics on the 30 NHL team articles. Consensus on NHL bio (particularly Player bios) articles, has yet to be reached. GoodDay 22:44, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] What was the decision?

According to the Future of the Penguins section and TSN, on January 2nd, it was reported that within 30 days a decision would be made that would ultimately decide the Penguins' future in Pittsburgh. Well, 30 days has long passed on since then, and I haven't heard anything. What is going on?Ohyeh 01:34, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

They are trying all options now, it looks very grim in Pittsburgh because the team is probably going to move now to Kansas City or Las Vegas. but id be really happy if they moved to Las Vegas *IF THEY CAN'T STAY* because i plan on living there someday. And i would still be a fan of the team. And i may still be one even if they move to Kansas City, but if anyone deserves a team in the NHL, its Winnipeg. --Dr. Pizza 15:59, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I hope that section gets cleaned up once this is resolved. A concise summary of the issues and the resolution is much more encyclopedic than the current daily log of media reports (confirmed and unconfirmed). ccwaters 14:00, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reported this morning the rumor that, improbably, a deal was actually coming together. [2] Film at eleven. RGTraynor 14:16, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ronald Petrovický

Petrovický isnt czech! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Olco polco (talk • contribs) 16:34, 8 March 2007 (UTC).

       You are right he is Slovak.

[edit] Relocation overdone?

True Pens fans will remember that in the mid-70s the Penguins went bankrupt, almost were sold and almost were taken over by the league, disbanded or shipped out to another market. In the mid 80s right before and during Mario's arrival the team was almost sold and relocated, in 1991 during the victory parade no less we had the owner (DeBarolo Jr.) telling some in the crowd how much money he lost and that he should move the team, and now the 2005-2007 debacle. In light of all this I feel that an article that deals with all the Pens history should footnote each one since this current one is no worse then the mid 70s or mid 80s maybe even the early to mid 90's. I think way way way too much info is given on the history of 2005-2007 crisis (isn't this what external links are for?). I didn't want to erase other peoples work without throwing out my reason why, but I think it does a disservice to the trials and triumphs of the franchise to focus so much article space on something that is now history and NONE on the other times the Pens went through trouble but were utimately saved. Thanks and look forward to other comments. 208.0.121.248 22:42, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

above comments were mine Hholt01 22:42, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

The worship of the recent is a syndrome common to Wikipedia in general and the hockey articles in particular; what sticks out in my mind was that at one point the amount of space devoted to the Rangers' most recent Cup win equals that devoted to every other Rangers' Cup in history combined, that the Flyers' 2005 season has more space devoted to it than Philadelphia's Cup wins combined, and that the section in the Whalers' article about the relocation of the team was greater than that devoted to the 25 years of team history up unto that point. RGTraynor 01:12, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

So I guess that means we are cutting this thesis down to size with the equal time for the 75 and 83-84 crises? 65.33.65.109 03:53, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm all for it. RGTraynor 14:09, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Ditto. Thats exactly what I has asking for up 2 sections. ccwaters 14:25, 14 March 2007 (UTC)