User talk:Pickle UK

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Archives /Archive 1 (2006)

Contents 1 Useful Links 2 Trident replacement 3 Math not Maths 4 Dungeness railway station 5 London to Ashford to Dover Line 6 Re: TWP tage on various Kent (UK) railway related pages 7 Kent project 8 Edits by Alphachimpbot 9 TFD Stn art lnk 10 Motorcycle Clubs sourcing 11 Are you... 12 WP:TRAIL 13 Dover 14 WP:TRAIL mk2 15 T:SEML 16 T:BML 17 List of tourist attractions in Kent 18 Collaboration 18th - 25th March 2007 18.1 Results 19 Gillingham 20 Creating WP:TRAIL 21 {{Rail line}}

[edit] Useful Links

• Railway electrification in Great Britain
• Category:Rail_transport_templates
• WP:TRAIL
• User talk:Pickle UK/Motorcycle trials manufactures
• Template:WP:Kent
• User talk:Pickle UK/sandbox

Co-ordinates

Canada Heights - 51.398637° N 0.208601° E
Cwmythig Hill 52°19′34.06″N, 3°29′26.01″W and {{coor title dms|52|19|34.06|N|3|29|26.01|W|}}

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Motorcycle_Trials

[edit] Trident replacement

Hi Pickle,

I saw your message at Talk:Trident missile about the contradiction between the US and the UK policies for replacing Trident. I am currently working on International Court of Justice advisory opinion on the Legality of the Threat or Use of Nuclear Weapons, with a view to improving the legality sections of all nuclear weapon articles. I have nominated the article at WP:ACID (perhaps you might like to vote for it?), but I was also wondering whether you would like to help improve the quality of the article? I thought your background in International Relations might be a help in this. Cheers, --Jim (Talk) 19:16, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I wrote my history dissertation on the UK nuclear weapons project and I'm probably going to write my master's dissertation on trident replacement. Have to admit I haven't got around to putting some of the knowledge and sources at my disposal to the stuff on Wikipedia. On the topic of legality, I'm not a legal bod, and stay away from the international law side of the debate. I personally don't think that if it was decided that they were "illegal" that the nuclear weapons states will give up their weapons (and the 4 unofficial NWS won't!). IMHO this is the area of top level statecraft..... But if you've got any questions about it I've got lots of stuff about the systems and the history. Pickle 19:55, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Math not Maths

Thank you — it is singular. When I was there, a contemporary was put in detention by the fearsome head L T Waddams for referring to it as the "Maths" --Cunningham 19:58, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't remember it being quite that draconian (LOL) but its the little touches like that that matter;) Pickle 20:20, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dungeness railway station

Main article: Dungeness railway station

I have added a bit to you dungeness but neds a bit of copy editing -if you can try to add a bit of info to the articles rather than just saying ' is a railway station in .... Cheers Ernst Stavro Blofeld 15:49, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, infob creating, so filling in the red links. Pickle 16:02, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] London to Ashford to Dover Line

I've put this up for WP:RM to South Eastern Main Line. Simply south 19:20, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Cheers, it's been bugging me for a while ;) Pickle 19:30, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: TWP tage on various Kent (UK) railway related pages

Hey cool. Thanks for noting them in the first place. I've been working through Category:Unassessed rail transport articles this month making quick assessments and scouting for ideas to add to the Did you know section of Portal:Trains. Slambo (Speak) 21:26, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Kent project

Hi fellow WikiProject Kent Member, you may have already seen this on our Kent project talk page. We are planning a small drive on the Kent article this week, 19th to 25th Feb. All we are asking is for you to read the page and talk page carefully. After digesting that information, then we would like you to make one edit. This edit can be to either the main article or to the talk page. Something as small as a spelling, grammar or punctuation correction is all we are asking. Alternatively, make suggestions on the talk page. Which sections need a rewrite, is the section order logical, are there any questionable facts. Anything! In the words of Wikipedia, BE BOLD. MortimerCat 19:34, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Edits by Alphachimpbot

I see that you have caught some of the edits to the motorcycle article's talk pages too. Well spotted. He seems to have applied it to the motorcycling stubs which is a large category but should be checked, unless the Alphachimpbot contribution page would be a better way of tracking the changes. Cheers ww2censor 19:02, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] TFD Stn art lnk

note to self - respond at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion#Template:Stn_art_lnk

[edit] Motorcycle Clubs sourcing

Hi... I had been starting to go through the full list from the "List of..." article on afd at this page that I copied, to verify them all with sources. I hadn't gotten too far before I got sidetracked. I was going to get back to it this week sometime if you wanted to grab a few. Nothing fancy... just adding some sources and little bit of clean up on each. let me know! - Denny 16:29, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Most of the clubs in the list of clubs, are not "my" sort of clubs - ie organising sporting events (the only one really is Dungannon and District Motorcycle Club - which User:Ww2censor would be best at tackling), of which there are around a thousand in the UK, and countless former club - which IMHO could be considered "notable". Anything UK side (hell even Europe or sporting) give me a shout Pickle 17:21, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

ok, thank you. I'll go through all that I can as time permits this week and will touch base with you (or the other individual) if I get hung up on any UK/European ones. - Denny 17:53, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

Nice one mate;) I can look over them but the grief I've had trying to edit the motorcycle club article with some American editors I'm avoiding the North America area! Pickle 17:58, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Are you...

Jamie Clarke? Grunners 13:00, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Shockingly I am (it's not that well hidden). And with whom do i have the pleasure of conversing with? Pickle 13:46, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Ah, I had to guess, only fair you do to. We don't really know each other, though we have a lot of mutual acquaintances. I only sussed it when I saw your facebook photo! Grunners 20:14, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Narrows it down to any one of the 9,000 odd students at Keele (or the recently graduated), although your contribution to the Owen Meredith non article narrows it to those aware of KUSU politics (a guess). Alternatively looking at your contributions and user pages, you are footballing friend of Andy Quayle. Either way you are from east Hampshire area. Quite where this takes me from there I'm a bit stuck - an enigma for me to toil with. Pickle 20:41, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WP:TRAIL

WP:TRAIL test by me on Sheerness Line --Pickle 19:38, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Done OK ish, still not perfect --Pickle 20:21, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Wow, Pickle you are really making great progress (3 in one day - brilliant) with WP:TRAIL, I am very impressed with the Sheerness line diagram, but a little confused by the end of the Ashford via Maidstone East Line, I don't know the line that well, but should the last two entries be swapped over, so that Marshlink leaves then the line is SEML? Dannyboy3 22:52, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Ahh thats lazy students for you! The problem with Ashford is that is a very large junction. While there is a symbol for 3 lines into one (which i should have used before Ashford), there is the issue of space on the right to show the numerous lines (the break tags didn't work well). After Ashford there are 4 lines forking off simultaneously (or 5, we haven't solved the Kent Coast Line dilemma yet). Its a style compromise really. Sheerness doesn't really look like it does on WP, but it was a compromise to make it look right in a 3 column table - see http://www.kentrail.co.uk/Kent%20&%20its%20Railways.htm and http://www.kentrail.co.uk/Sheppey%20&%20the%20Hoo%20Peninsula.htm. This templates allows us to make editable and usable line diagrams, and i can't draw on computers so its a good compromise. Pickle 23:07, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dover

How does this look? A little juggling of the columns gets it all in, but not sure about whether the junction movements are correct. User:Chriscf/Kent Coast Line -- Chris cheese whine 11:40, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for that, that broadly solves it, needs a slight fiddle though - will do in a bit. Pickle 13:24, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Only query I have is that Margate SER and Ramsgate LCDR are shown currently as "closed stations without passenger service" as opposed to "closed stations formerly with passenger service". Is this correct? Chris cheese whine 14:09, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

I see what i've done wrong, the rails have been taken up long ago so they should be "closed stations formerly with passenger service" Pickle 14:15, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Aye, the hollow circles are apparently for things such as depots, staff halts and freight terminals. I must say these do look rather smarter than the old sidebars, especially when it came to routes which branched severely. Chris cheese whine 14:51, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Cheers for the help ;) Pickle 14:52, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WP:TRAIL mk2

note to self to edit other articles (cref with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:BS-header)

see also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Whatlinkshere/Template:UKrail-header and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Railways/TRAIL

• South London Lines
• User:Chriscf/Kent Coast Line
• Bexleyheath Line
• Cross Country Route
• Birmingham Cross-City Line
• West Coast Main Line see Template:West Coast Main Line
• East Coast Main Line see Template:East Coast Main Line
• Channel Tunnel Rail Link
• Midland Main Line see Template:Midland Main Line
• East Coast Main Line
• Chase Line
• Esk Valley Line
• Vale of Glamorgan Line
• Leamington to Stratford Line
• Cherwell Valley Line
• Coventry to Nuneaton Line
• Newcastle and Carlisle Railway
• Hayes Line

[edit] T:SEML

Well, i have just created Template:South Eastern Main Line. Would you say it is okay? Simply south 18:23, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I'll have a butchers Pickle 18:36, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Do you think all the stations between London Bridge and Orpington should be included, or would that complicate things too much? Simply south 22:32, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Ouch, that's very long. Perhaps that should be expanded and used only on the SEML article, and a shorter one again used on each of the station articles. Chris cheese whine 23:19, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

The template seams to be specifically designed for showing copious amounts of detail, we in the UK haven't (yet) been using the milepost column but i can see editors using it soon. The German high speed line also have very long tables. Thus I've proposed over on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Railways/TRAIL about the main line (WCML< ECML, et al) - if we want a template for every station's page then it could be very simplistic showing major stations, while the line page shows another that is very complex. Pickle 12:30, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Done!, i think Pickle 17:10, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] T:BML

Same again, bit more detail but do you still want to have a go at anything else. Tunnes and viaducts i don't know the name of and theres prob other details. See Template:Brighton Main Line. Simply south 13:03, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I'll have a look ;) Pickle 14:02, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I would advise against use of "same", in reference to junctions. Chris cheese whine 15:10, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Thats not me, that Simply south, but i'm (very) slowly going through the SEML WP:TRAIL, and am then going to try the BML. Pickle 15:12, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I've just changed it. Simply south 16:47, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Might have a look tommorrow or some other time, SEML took a long time! Pickle 17:10, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm trying now to work on what i can of the Brighton Main Line, although it will be of current layout and not the historical sapect. Even so, i don't think i can work everything out. Do you think i should include all stations served between all three of these terminals - Watford, Victoria, London Bridge...? Maybe the latter two.

SEML does look complicated but good. Simply south 17:17, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I am now saying i acknowledge that for the moment, the Brighton Main Line template is in a bit of a mess. I will sort that out soon. Simply south 18:21, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

a) thanks for thanks ;)

b) IMHO the BML is London Bridge and Victoria to Brighton. Watford is the WLL, and Thameslink is well Thameslink. I'm inclined for lots of detail but the interactions with the various south lonon lines could cause real issues! Thats why i started on the smaller lines!!! Nice work

Pickle 18:35, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

OK, i have done it but i had to change things due to technical reasons.

1. The main branch goes to the right i.e. the one from London Bridge.
2. I have included all the stations from Charing Cross to East Croydon as some services which come to and go off the main line start from there. Therefore it may may not be true to scale.
3. Possibly not a good idea now but i have deliberately made some minor branches different from others to try to emphasise where the trains come from towards Gatwick and Brighton. I have also included Blackfriars. Unfortunately the emphasis also shows to West Croydon.

Do you think this is all ok? I think i will leave the rest to you. Simply south 21:06, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

It's a great effort, its going to be very hard to cram much more detail into it. I'll do a few tweaks to it tommorrow. Nice work ;) Pickle 22:45, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I now keep wondering whether Charing Cross shoould be included. The main services are from London Bridge and Victoria (and Blackfriars due to the trains from Thameslink [Which is not a secret organisation with Napolean Solo]). Erm..... however, the local services on the BML start from LB and CR. (Sorry for the above joke. I don't know why it reminds me of UNCLE). Simply south 23:03, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Southern services do only to London Bridge on that side, its only South Eastern stuff that goes beyond (and the old southeastern lines to Tatenham Corner and Catterham), so for the purposes of the BML, it could reasonably stop at London bridge. don't worry the humour is appreciated ;) Pickle 23:08, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Anyway, i have included Blackfriars still but omitted Charing Cross now. Simply south 23:39, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

OK, i given it a good go, with msn maps open, its very hard to make the details fit with only 3 columns! and some key symbols missing. Pickle 20:32, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] List of tourist attractions in Kent

Thank you for the rating Talk:List of tourist attractions in Kent, should this be a Non-article class=NA or could you rate it and add comments for improvement. I hope to keep the page away from AfD - Olive Oil -_ŢάĽɮ - 11:57, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I thought you was being brave letting that reappear again!!! Will do ;) Pickle 11:59, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Any ideas for making it more valuable - Olive Oil -_ŢάĽɮ - 12:11, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Collaboration 18th - 25th March 2007

For your info, as I know you've used the template - Olive Oil -_ŢάĽɮ - 14:11, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Cheers, i've done a lot TWP tagging for my sins Pickle 14:27, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Results

[edit] Gillingham

Thanks for the contact. Sorry about that - I'm using an automated editting function; it's about 95% accurate, but seems Gillingham was unfortunate enough to be in the other 5%. Apologies. Hope you like the new infobox however! Jhamez84 23:56, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

No problem, i know what you mean ;) Pickle 14:30, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

You may wish to comment at this deletion proposal page, or take part in discussion at Template talk:Infobox UK place. Jhamez84 19:38, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Creating WP:TRAIL

I was just wondering your opinion. For long lines and main lines, do you think it is best to put them in a template on a seperate page e.g. Template:South Eastern Main Line, or on the main article page e.g. Island Line (sort of)? Simply south 21:53, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

While we haven't used the Brighton Main Line, SEML and Chatham Main Line (did that one today) as templates at each station (which is what has been done on the ECML and WCML) on the smaller lines (like island line) I've put them on the page. i think it hides code that is complex from new users and vandals, people who want to edit can work out how to edit the template (although a v-d-e might be nice). The only thing is that the template will only be sued by one page and there might be some anti orphan policy? Pickle 22:15, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] {{Rail line}}

I completely disagree with your view regarding the {{rail line}} template. I have seen how complicated the s-rail template is - I did a count of how many individual templates were required to set up the routes that had already been set up, and it came to over 80. Is this a reasonable use of resources in your opinion? I don't believe it is, especially given that individual templates need to be set up for individual routes, leading to multiple templates for each TOC. By contrast, the rail line template, and its half-dozen or so variants, can (and has) been used for any route of any operator. My further objections include the fact that the s-rail template does not sit comfortably on pages - because most of the National Rail station articles are stubs, they have a lot of white space at the bottom of the page due to the station infobox. the rail line template adapts itself to fit into the white space left by this, while the s-rail template cannot adapt itself due to the way it is set up, and so it sits at the bottom of the page leaving a large, ugly white gap. Also, s-rail is being added in apiecemeal fashion - if you are going to do this, it needs to be done to the whole network. Your argument appears to be that everything needs to be standardised. Fine, then standardise it. Do the lot, all at once, not one little piece at a time. The excuse from the individual who started all this the first time this came up was "I like to edit Wikipedia". That's fine. So do I, but I like to edit with the purpose of adding something to Wikipedia. To me, this just seems to be editing for the sake of editing. There is no valid reason I can see why s-rail is better than rail line. Saying "it's on other rail systems" is akin to saying "he's doing it so we should too". Why? If there is a valid reason why rail line should be replaced by s-rail, then please try and convince me. I am open minded and am willing to be convinced if the argument is valid, against what some people may have led yo to believe. However, I have spent the last few days editing stations on the Iarnrod Eireann network successfully using rail line - this template works, of that I am convinced. If you think I am wrong, convince me otherwise. Hammersfan 29/03/07, 12.22 BST

see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject UK Railways for a reply Pickle 01:35, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

responded at the above page. A seperate note regarding London Bridge - Services to Orpington via Grove Park generally depart from either Charing Cross or Cannon Street; London Bridge is only used as a terminus for Southeastern services after Cannon Street closes for the evening. Also, both Grove Park and Orpington are on the South Eastern Main Line. I realise that a large number of trains do terminate at Orpington (because I use Southeastern every day, either from Cannon St or Charing Cross), but I don't think having a seperate entry for this one route is necessary. All that should be needed is a box on the Orpington page stating that it is a terminus. Hammersfan 30/03/07, 09.56 BST

The inner suburban workings are a nightmare to figure out! I haven't really worked out how to grapple with "stopper" or "local" trains on main lines. Over on the WCML there are separate articles for the stopper services into Manchester from Stoke and Crewe, as well as services into Birmingham. I have no problem taking the "London Bridge to Orpington" out as the SEML article covers them. Pickle 15:44, 30 March 2007 (UTC)