Talk:Phillips Academy

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To-do list for Phillips Academy: edit  · history  · watch  · refresh
  • Create a "See also" section.
  • Incorporate images into the Sports section.
  • Determine the admissability of Residental Facilities section.
  • Incorporate information about School Year Abroad, which was founded in 1964 at Andover.
  • Incorporate a section detailing the schools connection to the Andover Theological Seminary.
  • Incorporate information about athletic facilities.


To discuss any of these tasks, or for more clarification, the Suggestions section on the talk page.
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Contents

[edit] Deletion

I think it seems pretty clear that this article is made up. I move that this page should be deleted.

          I second that.
I'll third this one. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.147.98.231 (talk) 04:55, 2 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Preppy

I've moved the "preppy" stuff here, since it really has no connection to Phillips Academy in particular, and someone who has more to say about it it may want to recylcle it for a "preppy" article.

"Phillips Academy's impact extends beyond education into fashion and literature. The fashion style "preppy" is derived from popular fashion tastes of alumni and students of prep schools, such as Andover. Many brands have emulated and clothed prep school students, such as Ralph Lauren, L.L. Bean, Patagonia, and Brooks Brothers. These fashion trends and power are clearly, if unflatteringly, described in J. D. Salinger's The Catcher in the Rye. "

I would add that I don't remember any fashion trends described in Catcher in the Rye... -- Someone else 07:04 Jan 27, 2003 (UTC)

[edit] Persistent vandalism

Some people seem to be making a game out of vandalizing this page - I would guess Phillips Exeter Academy students among them, going by the vandalism. The page has therefore been protected, and will remain so until they give up and go away. (In other words, once it is finally unprotected again in a couple of weeks, I will immediately re-protect it for several more weeks at the first instance of vandalism, ad infinitum.)

If anyone has any real changes to make, please post them here, and I (or another admin) will add them to the protected article page for you. Thanks. Noel (talk) 16:11, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

To think, a bunch of vandals making the claim that they're going to a superior educational institution. Extraordinary. Applied Irony on the syllabus at Phillips Exeter? Sockatume 16:06, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Much of the vandalism comes from college students, particularly those forced to deal with the outrageous arrogance of Andover graduates. However, if the blue ones want to believe in a delusional rivalry with the red ones, go right ahead. Applied Narcissism on the syllabus at Phillips Andover?

Delusional rivalry? Speak to an Andover or Exeter graduate and you'll find that the rivalry is anything but 'delusional.'

I think that anyone making blanket claims to the 'outrageous arrogance' of PA students (or Exeter students for that matter) has no clue, I mean absolutely no clue, what they're talking about. Once you have attended, you can make claims of that sort. Yurtian 22:22, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article fixes

Perhaps an admin could add Senator Lincoln Chafee (graduated 1971) to the list of notable alumni, and also correct the spelling of "Abbott Academy." It's actually Abbot Academy (see http://www.andover.edu/about_andover/overview.htm). Thanks. -- User: 67.101.40.119 07:32, 26 Dec 2004

Done and done. (Good catch on the "Abbott" - my face is somewhat red as I attended Andover, and didn't catch it!) Noel (talk) 12:05, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)


Perhaps you could also clarify the following, with dates or some definition: "Phillips Academy (PA) is the oldest private high school in the United States." I mentnion it because right on the Wikipedia Schools Portal page Hopkins School is listed as "the oldest continuously operating secondary school in North America." (It was already 118 years old when PA was started). Maybe there is no problem, but it sounds like one of the two is wrong. 130.132.185.161 16:31, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Exeter more rigorous?

Since when is Phillips Exeter considered more academically rigorous? The presence of the Harkness system at Exeter has nothing to do with standards of the institution when comparing it with it's sister school in Andover. PA is at least Exeter's equal from an academic perspective, and the clause in the article indicating otherwise is simply the opinion of one person.

Then Wikipedia:Be bold. Remove it. --DropDeadGorgias (talk) 15:08, July 25, 2005 (UTC)
Exeter has always been considered more academically rigorous and an all around superior school. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.147.98.231 (talk) 04:54, 2 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Andover alumni

Somone mentioned this on my talk: page:

I was looking through the Andover "famous alumni" and didn't recognize many of them. The unrecognizable ones also don't have their own Wiki listing. Perhaps alumni who haven't yet warranted a page should be deleted. Thanks <John> —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.188.117.11 (talk • contribs) 17:09, 25 July 2005.

Seems like a good idea to me. Anyone up for it? Noel (talk) 23:02, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

Good idea, bad implementation. A quick web search shows that many of the ones who were just deleted were in fact mildly (or more so) notable. The most notable was Donald Klopfer, who was co-founder of Random House, but most of the rest aren't nobodies either (Hafsat Abiola seems to be some sort of African political activist; Jeffrey Garten served as the undersecretary of commerce for international trade in the first Clinton term; John Lardner was the son of Ring Lardner and a noted journalist (I'm dithering on doing a page for him); James Hardy Ropes was a noted theologian; etc). I'm doing a page for Klopfer. Noel (talk) 01:54, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
I added a link to the Andover homepage section "Notable Alumni," and it made me think...who is considered "notable" here and who isn't? I cleaned up the section a little just now, but the only addition's I've made have been Britton Keeshan and Olivia Wilde, and then only to include some members of more recent classes. There are so many "notable" alumni that perhaps it was a good implementation. Maybe only especially notable alums (Bush, Bush, Bush, Scooter, just to name a few names that are in the news a lot right now, but obviously more than that can be kept) should be kept and some of the more obscure ones dropped? Or we can let it stand as is, but I feel that the list will only grow and grow and eventually be far too long. Anyone else?jfg284
Possible solution:
A split of the Notable Alumni section to a "List of Phillips Academy people page, similar to many colleges. Some high schools claim notable alumni and list three or four people, but the list here takes up close to half the page.jfg284 21:50, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

I went ahead with this solution sometime within the last week. Theres now a link to the List of notable Phillips Academy alumni page in place of said list on the PA main page.

[edit] Irrelevancy

I just took out two things: "Andover and Exeter have a long standing rivalry. This year Andover won" under Sports and "Dormitories: West Quad North" under Facilities. I felt they were irrelevant, but if you really think there's a case for them, i'm more than happy to hear it. The way i see it with regards to the first one...the rivalry's already mentioned earlier on, and who won this year is not that notable. Perhaps a new section on the rivalry with a history as well as recent results would be in order, but not one throwaway statement. And as for the second one, it was just two headings and no info under the facilities section.jfg284 you were saying? 12:04, 20 November 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Non-Interscholastic

   * Activity-specific Basics

Are there still activity specific basics? They stopped them in the past couple years, i thought...was i wrong?jfg284 you were saying? 06:44, 24 November 2005 (UTC)

Yes, they still exist. There are actually quite a few, though they are not featured on athletic rosters. You kind of have to be recruited/invited to join them, but they do fulfill the athletic requirement.
Akiora 17:59, 24 November 2005 (UTC)
There are indeed activity-specific basics, take Fencing as an example. It's counted as a basics sport, although we compete outside of Andover individually (but usually go to the competitions as a whole). I think there might be a dance basic as well, but I could very well be wrong. 22:27, 16 October 2006

[edit] Andover-Exeter Rivalry Subpage

I'd be interested in writing an Andover/Exeter sub-page, similar to the one on the English/Latin Rivalry, but I can't find the scores anywhere. Anyone who's still at school there have any way of finding a list of the final scores of each of the games? I've begun a rough draft here, and basically what's missing now is a long-term history with all 125 scores. jfg284 you were saying? 15:31, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

I might be able to. I'll let you know if I can get my hands on them, but I don't think I can do so via the web...I might have to check the school archives. --Akiora 16:05, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
Wasn't there a shirt with them at some point? Though that probably wouldn't qualify as a source, it's a start...also, if you can figure out which two years they didnt play - and why - that'd be awesome too.jfg284 you were saying? 16:10, 3 December 2005 (UTC)
Ya...there was a shirt, I was thinking about that, but it'd be better for a print source...the term finishes up soon, so I might not be able to actually figure anything out 'til January... --Akiora
Yea, a shirt clearly wouldnt hold up as a source, it just came to mind if someone had one lying around they could start entering the scores because there are over 120 unentered scores, and that will probably last some time. Anway, whatever you get done and whenever is cool. jfg284 you were saying? 17:43, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

The Exonian published a booklet with all the scores that I can get my hands on and submit when school starts again on January 5th.67.49.164.23 21:04, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestions

Some suggestions for the article, i'm trying to see who agrees with me.


  1. A "See Also" section. See below for specific discussion.
  2. Images in the Sports section. Right now its a long, long list of sports without anything interesting on the right half of the screen. If anyone could get their hands on a good, free liscense photo of anodover sports (taking one yourself works, if you're still in the area), thatd be awesome.
  3. A more critical eye on the residential facilities section. See below.
  4. Incorporating Information about School Year Abroad, which was founded in 1964 at Andover. Yea, I didn't know that, and it's an interesting thing to note.
  5. A section detailing the schools connection to the Andover Theological Seminary. For a while the seminary was a department at Andover, and a lot of the names that are connected with the school were a part of ATS (Harriet Beecher Stowe lived at the school, for example, because her husband was teaching at the seminary).
  6. That's all i got right now. If i come up with anything else I'll add it.
  7. Athletic Facilities was also suggested. Also see below.

I would like to see pictures of the new science center...poor Evans...

[edit] See Also Discussion

What should be in said section? First things to come to mind are "Independent School League", "Prep School" (or "boarding school)", "yale" "Groton", "St. Pauls", "Deerfield", "Loomis Chafee" (etc etc etc, basically just other new england prep schools), "Preppy" (maybe)....any other suggestions? any opposition to what i've already listed? Those are just what I get off the top of my head, what do others think?

[edit] Facilities Discussion

In my opinion, the information on the dorms is inadmissable, as most of it's unverified (outside of the stuff on Ahouse and stowe house.) Furthermore, not much of it is really notable...theyre dorms. Theyre all pretty much the same, all over the place. If theres a reason for it to be included (like ahouse and stowe house), then by all means include it. But you need to back it up with a source. Other than that, I'd say we should take the rest of them out.
Athletic facilities: I think this is a good idea, as long as the descriptions don't get too specific. By that, I mean that I'm not sure we'll need a seperate section on Borden, the New Gym, the fitness center, the pool...that could all fit under "Main Facility" or something.

--jfg284 you were saying? 18:07, 17 December 2005 (UTC)


Just a thought about this: This doesn't seem appropriate from a security point of view. The dorms are not listed on Andover's own website, so I don't think they should be listed on Wikipedia unless they have historical signifance. The amount of residents and class should be left off. Paul Revere and America House are definetely significant and should be on the page. So before I or others delete the majority of this section, please state what you think about this.

Thanks

67.49.164.23 20:56, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

I don't see how it's a security risk, but even so..."French House is a small freshman dorm on Bartlett Street" is a pretty weak description of a pretty unimportant building. Besides, the classes tend to change from year to year - French House could be upperclassman housing again next year. And not just to pick on French House, like I said above - theyre all dorms. What's special about them? Except for AHouse and Stowe House (And Paul Revere? What makes it significant? I'm curious, I just can't think of anything that makes it encyclopediac), I think the rest should be left off. --jfg284 you were saying? 10:56, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Took them out. Really weren't worth having in there, the vast majority was stuff like "a small freshman dorm." and the like. --jfg284 you were saying? 13:10, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pictures of Sports

I have a few I have taken with my point and shoot camera, but they are only of fall sports.67.49.164.23 21:08, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Over-emphasis on Sports

I personally believe the list of sports is over-emphasized. I simply don't think a list of individual sports is nessesary. Perhaps it would be beneficial to create another page for this. --198.140.202.1 01:28, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

I like it, but i can see where your coming from. on the other hand, theres no way such a page would be notable. There's no substance to it, its just a list of sports played at a high school. only place it's worth including is this article, and while you may be right it's not necessary, is there any real reason why its necessary to remove it?--jfg284 you were saying? 14:25, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

And I like it even better now, it's been condensed into a 4 column structure instead of the hulking list it was earlier. --jfg284 you were saying? 15:02, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Yorkies

I recently ran across this stub, probably written by a PA student. It qualified as a nn group under CSD A7, but I decided to merge it into this article instead, creating the new heading ==Notable student groups==. I'll leave it up to an editor that knows about the school and this group to decide whether the material is worth keeping. Canderson7 (talk) 22:11, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

It's now been removed by 212.158.254.131 (talk • contribs). Just so you know. Canderson7 (talk) 22:36, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Phillipian Newspaper

In the current article, the sentence "The Phillipian, the school's student-run newspaper, is the oldest secondary school newspaper in the US." appears. This claim is also made on the front page of every Phillipian published. However, Phillips Exeter Academy's newspaper, the Exonian, also makes a similar claim. A few years ago, the trustees of Phillips Exeter brought Andover to court over this issue. It was discovered that Andover did indeed have a newspaper before Exeter, but it was not called the Phillipian and it only ran for a year. After that one year of publication, there was no student newspaper for ten years until the Phillipian began. However, at the time the Phillipian began, the Exonian had already been publishing for some time. Therefore, while the Phillipian is the oldest non-continuous secondary school newspaper in the US, the Exonian is the oldest continuous secondary school newspaper in the US. Cceleung 19:58, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

The problem with "oldest" claims is that everyone makes them. (Compare the English/Latin rivalry with the A/E rivalry.) Another problem is, which is it? Is the Phillipian the longest non-continuous running newspaper, or is the exonian the longest continuous running newspaper? I think the best solution is "one of the oldest secondary school newspapers in the nation."
Even though that grammar's wrong. 82.82.179.97 09:35, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Another notable fact is that the Phillipian is not read by any adminstrators or faculty members before it goes to press each week. I don't think many other schools can claim that.

[edit] Abbot Academy

I think we might be able to incorporate something more about PA's former sister Abbot Academy. Currently the school is listed a grand total of once in the article. (Which is a link to the Abbot Academy article in wikipedia... which is redirected to this article again. (I would fix this but I can't figure out how to edit a redirect >.>))

24.128.122.132 23:09, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Olmsted references

I have downplayed the Olmsted reference. The only role his firm seems to have had in the campus layout was determining the placement of the campus's four "cottages" (Andover, Eaton, Pemberton and Draper) in the 1890s. They were subsequently moved anyway. The shaping of the current Andover campus, made possible through the largesse of Thomas Cochran in the 1920s and 1930s, was overseen by New York based architecht Charles Platt. The foregoing information all comes from "Youth From Every Quarter: A Bicentennial History of Phillips Academy Andover" by Frederick S. Allis (University Press of New England, 1978). Cbmccarthy 18:30, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Most noteworthy alumni?

I was tempted to delete the references to four Medal of Honor winners. Although their achievements are impressive, by singling out these alumni for reference in particular, does it give an impression that Andover is a military academy? If you want to give indicative alumni, instead list Samuel F.B. Morse, Oliver Wendell Holmes, Walker Evans, Jack Lemmon and Bart Giamatti.

Cbmccarthy 03:25, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Do we really need to prominently mention the Kamehameha Schools and Governor Dummer Academy by name on the face of the introduction section?

With all due respect to Hayford Peirce, Exeter class of 1960 (1961?), putting this information right into the text of the first paragraph seemed stylistically weak. Giving the name of another school with a larger endowment, or the name of another school that is older, detracts from the essential identifying characteristics suitable for an intro. In particular, the almost random insertion of a clause about the year of Governor Dummer's founding made the sentence, and the whole paragraph, very choppy. It started to be all over the place. I rewrote the paragraph to summarize essential information about Andover. The asides about GD and K schools are now in footnotes. Alternatively, they can go somewhere in the body of the article. They just shouldn't be here in the intro.Cbmccarthy 16:10, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm class of '59 -- we Exies graduate young. Whether callow should also be used is debatable.... Hayford Peirce 17:11, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

PS: I am not saying this information should be omitted. In fact, I was the person who added to Sam Phillips' biography the fact that he graduated from Governor Dummer, therefore drawing attention to greater age of that school. I also toned down the inaccurate claim that Andover's campus was "laid out by Frederick Law Olmsted". So I agree that the article, like all articles on Wikipedia, should be balanced. But any such information does not need to be in the introduction.

PPS: On the Exter page, I would suggest you move the Kamehameha Schools sentence into a footnote as well.

I see your reasoning on this point but I think the $8 billion of Kame. is so extraordinary that it should stay where it is. But I wouldn't argue the footnote replacement very strenuously. Hayford Peirce 17:11, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Catboner"

This is clearly not encyclopedic, and doesn't belong here. There's no sourcing for it, and sounds like a juvenile addition with little value. I want to delete this section entirely, are there any objections? Scharferimage 05:22, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Also, the IP that keeps adding "catboner" is from somewhere in Massachusetts, I just geolocated it, so I'd assume this is just some local person adding it in for his own amusement. Scharferimage 05:26, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
It's obviously a particularly dumb vandal. That particular source has been blocked numerous times -- some Admin. should step in and block it again. Hayford Peirce 16:28, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
Okay, it's been deleted Scharferimage 18:23, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

I've blocked the IP which was also adding this catboner stuff to other articles. Unfortunately since it's an IP I'm not allowed to slap more than a 24-h ban on it. 23skidoo 14:56, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Catboner is a necessary piece of this article. It has actually been a large topic of controversy within the school and the surrounding area for about the last 5 years. Do any of you even live in the area? Maybe you should think next time before deciding that you are always right and eliminating the opportunity for others to contribute. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.147.98.231 (talk) 04:58, 2 February 2007 (UTC).
First of all, even if it were true that local youths were shouting "catboner" at passing PA students all the time, I don't think that would be encyclopedic information of the sort wikipedia is supposed to be accumulating. Secondly, I graduated from PA in 2004. I've been back many times since, and have friends still there. I had never heard of this catboner thing until I saw it on wikipedia. If it does exist as a fad of sorts, it is so limited in scale that it does not belong on this page. Anybody disagree? Scharferimage 06:07, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
Me
Try taking your school a little less seriously. This does actualy happen. This is wikipedia not your school website, and this is an interesting peice of the modern culture. Let other veiws be expressed. It is a tradition, more than a fad. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.147.209.246 (talk) 04:38, 3 February 2007 (UTC).
Find an appropriate reference for this tradition if you wish it to be included in this encyclopedia. --ElKevbo 04:41, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
And maybe register for Wikipedia as well, since you seem so insistent on contributing to the project. Scharferimage 06:39, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
Just to finish this absurd discussion, if you do a Google for "+catboner +andover" you will get absolutely *zero* hits. 'Nuff said. Hayford Peirce 18:57, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
Mr. Peirce, I find it hard to believe you would oppose including information about the catboner issue when you find it necessary to create an article about yourself. Seriously, look at what is included on this site, it just makes sense. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.147.98.231 (talk) 01:21, 5 February 2007 (UTC).
In terms of citing material, take a look at what else is on the page. Since when was "it is rumored that students who attend this program and apply the following year..." meet wikipedia standards. In the mean time, I'm deleting that line. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tblan (talk • contribs) 04:57, 5 February 2007 (UTC).
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