Talk:Phi Gamma Delta
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Phi Gamma Delta is part of the Fraternities and Sororities WikiProject, an effort to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Greek Life on the Wikipedia. This includes but is not limited to International social societies, local organizations, honor societies, and their members. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, visit the project page, where you can join the project, and/or contribute to the discussion. |
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[edit] Restrictions on Lettering
The article states the FIJI is the only fraternity that limits the use of its letters. This is not true. Chi Psi, for example, limits public exhibition of its letters (which is why it is referred to as "The Lodge" at most universities, instead of by its letters)--Velvet elvis81 20:52, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
- Okay, but is Chi Psi actually required to limit the usage of their letters by international by-laws? Several fraternities actually have terms for their organization that are more used then their actual letters for one reason or another, but I'm still under the impression that Fiji's the only one that specifically has it written down that the usage of our letters is prohibited to certain locations. RPH 21:33, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
I would imagine that most fraternities that do limit it do so by tradition, not through any written code. But the article states that FIJI's limits are based on tradition. If there is some written bylaw, then change the article to reflect that. That said, the bylaw vs. tradition seems to me a dubious differentiation--a distinction w/o a difference. I think info about limiting the letters is article-worthy, but I don't think we should put that FIJI's the only one to do it. --Velvet elvis81 10:00, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
I went ahead and edited the use of letters section since no one responded. If you think it would be more appropriate to say it's the only one to do it through bylaws instead of saying it's one of the few to limit the use, feel free.--Velvet elvis81 23:17, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
- I did exactly that. Also the Greek letters for the chapter designation can be used anywhere and I clarified the language to avoid any ambiguity. The fraternity's international bylaws prevent the members from using Phi Gamma Delta but not other fraternity related Greek letters or slogans. Ekspiulo 06:47, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Complete List of all Chapters?
- The edits done by 149.149.150.56 made me consider the possibility of listing by time of foundation all the currently active Fiji Chapters in the United States and Canada. As there are over 100 such chapters (and colonies), I realize that this would be a difficult task, yet I believe that this change would improve the quality of the article greatly. As it is though, I'll just add the DePauw Chapter to it and make changes as the time becomes available. RPH 20:53, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Actual greek letters
I know that FIJI only allows its members to use their greek letters in seven places. Wikipedia is not a member of Phi Gamma Delta and there are no legal measures to protect the use of your letters here. We are legally allowed to report on the facts. I have placed the actual greek letters on in the article, phi gamma delta. This is not the first time I have done this, my user page has been vandalized twice by what I assume to be a FIJI member because I put your greek letters on wikipedia. This is not going away. There is much wikipedia precident that all relavent content be placed on wikipedia, just look for pictures of Mohammed. In the interest of conformaty, you cannot avoid this. --metta, The Sunborn 18:42, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
- While I was one of the people that disagreed with the idea of putting the actual Greek letters in the article in the past, I am more inclined to agree with your point of view in this regard. However, that article should make mention that Fijis (such as myself) are limited by tradition from placing their Greek letters in more than six locations. I'll make such an edit to the article shortly. RPH 04:35, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
I've put the Greek letters back, not least because the editor who removed them messed up the formatting of the Infobox! Before anyone says it: yes, I am a complete outsider (I'm not even American), but actually that's the point: Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a community resource, and should not be biased towards (or against) a specific group's wishes, however important to them personally. There are apparently no legal restrictions on the use of these Greek letters here, nor are there any privacy concerns, so they should stay.
Sunborn makes an excellent point about precedent: we have pictures of Mohammed, and I think that's right, despite it being something which millions of Muslims object to in principle. That being so, it just looks silly for a fraternity, no matter how strongly held its members' feelings, to be given special treatment. I think RPH above has found the most sensible solution: to retain the Greek letters, but to include a prominent explanation of the convention in the main text.
Finally, I'll not that the intro to this article seems overly long and rather POV in places ("For over 158 years, the Phi Gams have lived by their values of Friendship, Knowledge, Service, Morality, and Excellence" reads as though it were taken from an advertising flyer), but I'm not doing anything about that as I don't have the required knowledge. The only edit I've made is to the letters, as explained above. Loganberry (Talk) 23:36, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
I will address two points: Use of the greek letters, and content of the page overall. Yes, the comment about "158 years of blah blah blah" may sound like an advertisement, but it is essentially true. The values of the Fraternity are indeed Friendship, Knowledge, Service, Morality, and Excellence, the fraternity has existed for over 158 years now, and those values are pretty much the same now as they were at the inception of the fraternity. Now, more importantly - use of the greek letters on the Wikipage for FIJI. The greek letters are not what we use in order to be recognized, nor do we use them as our name officially in any capacity. The official name of the fraternity is "The Fraternity of Phi Gamma Delta, Inc." For purposes of identification, we use "FIJI," "Phi Gam," and "Phi Gamma Delta." Outside of the seven places mentioned in the article, we NEVER use or mention our letters. Our jerseys read "FIJI." And though the chapter house will almost always have the greek letters on display, they also tend to have "FIJI" or "Phi Gamma Delta" in a similarly elegant and obvious place, because for the most part when people see the greek letters they do not recognize what fraternity it is, and only when they read the letters one by one do they (maybe) then say, "Oh... FIJI." I do not think putting the greek letters helps in any way, and actually would suggest that for the purposes of people seeing what our letters look like, maybe we could include pictures of the flag and badge, for instance. What I don't agree with is the assertion that all fraternity greek letters are up. FarmHouse, for instance, doesn't HAVE greek letters (publicly, at least). Oxfordcomma (Talk) 18:24, 18 May 2006 (EST)
for the NPOV stance of wikipedia, "158 years of blah blah blah" may sound like an advertisement, but it is essentially true. if something is true, then it can be sourced. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia that doesn't operate on heresay.
As for the letters, as long as the fraternity house has them, the world sees these greek letters as a symbol of the fraternity. All fraternities accord a symbolism to their letters and that is why the infobox has a slot for it.
However, that said, I have created a phi gamma flag, and placed it in the position of the letters in the infobox. this should solve the problem.--metta, The Sunborn 23:18, 18 May 2006 (UTC)
- Replying to both of you... firstly, the flag solution seems reasonable, and actually I think it's rather an elegant solution; I like it. The letters are clear, but on the flag, which according to the article is one of the "allowed" locations for said letters, so hopefully all sides will now be satisfied. Secondly, though, the "158 years of..." section is a claim, not a verifiable fact. It may very well be "essentially true", but that is not enough in itself for an article on Wikipedia, where a a neutral point of view is a non-negotiable (Jimbo Wales' word [1]) requirement.
- I'm not going to do any more editing on this article, however. As I said in my previous comment, I'm not knowledgeable enough about this fraternity, or indeed about the whole culture. After all, the fraternity/sorority system is essentially non-existent in UK universities. (Google testing for "university fraternity" gives 35,200, but adding "site:uk" reduces that to just 40, of which none at all refer to an actual UK-based fraternity... because they don't exist!) I just happened to stop by one day and felt it might be useful to have an outsider's perspective. Loganberry (Talk) 00:32, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
The Greek Letters for FIJI are legally trademarked. Thus, the fraternity's wishes over this issue should be met. Nevertheless, the current solution with the flag is a great way to resolve the issue.152.1.159.146 17:47, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Meaning of "FIJI"
Obviously Fiji is an island and the fraternity sponsors "island"-themed events. However, I doubt that the alternate name FIJI was used from the inception of the fraternity. The article needs to be stated when "FIJI" began to be used and for what reason. Also, it needs to be stated exactly when in the fraternity's history the use of the Greek letters was limited. Badagnani 08:32, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
I added partial information about the nickname. However I cannot find any sources that tell exactly how New York University came up with the nickname so I have not posted an origin to that.
FIJI is a shortened version of the Fraternity's full name. "Fee Gamma Delta(Phonetic)" is shortened to Fee-Gee (FIJI). The pronunciation of the greek letter 'Phi' has changed from "Fee" to "F-eye" in the American lexicon making the derivation of the FIJI nickname less obvious.152.1.159.146 17:47, 12 March 2007 (UTC) --Savagemonitor 01:06, 15 January 2007 (UTC)
