Talk:Petronila of Aragon

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.	Biography Portal
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the Project's quality scale. Please rate the article and then leave a short summary here to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article. [FAQ]
	This article is supported by the Royalty and nobility work group.

Spain Portal This article is part of WikiProject Spain which aims to to expand and organise information better in articles related to the history, languages, and cultures of Spain. Please participate by editing the article, or visit the project page for more details.

Isn't "Petronilla" the more common spelling of her name? -- Jmabel 04:13, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I've seen lots of spellings for it. I suggest we keep it Petronila (sounds better). Where did see "Pétronille"? -- Apoivre

Mostly in French-language sources. Do a web-search, you'll find it. -- Jmabel 17:46, 8 Mar 2004 (UTC)

So we're talking about modern spellings? Then we'll have to include them all, in every language (Aragonese medieval lexicology used to be pretty strong in Finland - shall we add a Finnish version, then?). I thought we should only include spellings in Latin/Spanish/Catalan and a common English one (it's en.wikipedia, after all, not fr:). BTW, I uploaded a list of counts of Urgell - care to have a look and check names (Armengol/Ermengol/Ermengarius, Sunifred(o)/Sunyer/Suniarius)?

And another question (I'm totally new here): is there some project to coordinate efforts on Catalonia/Aragon medieval history? -- Apoivre

No, though if someone wants to start one, I'm in. Do you read Catalan? A lot of material in the English-language Wikipedia about Catalonia/Aragon medieval history originally came from the Catalan-language Wikipedia. Any such project should probably try to rope in some of the contributors there and should probably cross over at least English and Catalan, and maybe Spanish. -- Jmabel 08:23, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I read both modern and medieval Catalan. However, there's next to no use translating stuff from :ca as there's lot of incorrect info there (like stating Peter the Catholic died on the next day after the battle of Muret - he died on the battlefield early in the battle). I might actually pitch in and correct everything which is wrong in :ca. -- Apoivre

Cool! Sounds like you have quite an advantage over me. My Catalan is just barely OK for reading. I have near-fluent Spanish (and pretty decent Romanian), and I spent enough time in Barcelona and painfully plowed through museum wall texts and copies of Avui to start learning some Catalan. Also, in the last few years I've put in what adds up to maybe 50 hours of more systematic study and maybe another 50-100 hours of attempted translations. And I bought a decent dictionary. At this point, I read it pretty decently, but still hesitate to try to write in the language. I get very confused by any misspellings and bad grammar. (I also get very confused by the pronouns, but that's another story.) As for the medieval history, my knowledge is not at all strong. I would probably not catch any Catalan out in a mis-statement; I've simply been relying on the people writing in Catalan to know their own history.

If you do want to start a WikiProject on this, I will gladly join. And help out. I'm not ready to start another myself, because I'm already not giving adequate attention to the Ethnic Groups WikiProject and the Translation project, both of which I started. -- Jmabel 22:42, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)

I majored in medieval Aragon at the University so I should be the man for the job. OTOH, if projects are for streamlining content presentation then we probably don't need on for the Corona de Aragón. Might as weel just go along and add bits of info on everyone. And I do like your Ethnic Group Project. Let's see if I can do something there as well apoivre 09:44, 10 Mar 2004 (UTC)

On the spelling: I think in this case "Pétronille" is useful because a lot of the searchable web content about her uses that form of the name. I don't by any means advocate reproducing all international forms of a royal name, but I find that it is useful to give ones that might aid someone in doing basic research. Maybe these should be identified by language, though. I've done that elsewhere, didn't think to do it here. --Jmabel 08:26, 9 Mar 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Seeming contradiction

Recently anonymously added "The kingdom was inherited only by males, thus Petronila's succession was an exception at the time… Petronila's succession created a new case in succession custom in Aragon." Given that Petronila did, indeed succeed to the throne, the first phrase here seems inherently false. I am editing it to "The Aragonese monarchy had previously passed only to males…" If that is not what was meant, could someone please reword more clearly? -- Jmabel | Talk 22:38, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Extenuating circumstances?

"Petronila came to the throne under extenuating circumstances." This makes no sense. "Extenuating circumstances" are those which tend to excuse a crime or mitigate its severity. Ascending to the throne is in no sense a crime. What is meant here? -- Jmabel | Talk 07:56, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

I would guess "unlikely" or "complicated." john k 18:02, 14 November 2005 (UTC)

The editor in question changed it to "special". I still don't think it adds much (the facts follow immediately), but this isn't the sort of thing worth fighting over. -- Jmabel | Talk 06:14, 15 November 2005 (UTC)