Talk:Peter Roskam

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[edit] A suggestion regarding article structure

It seems somewhat awkward to place Section 3 (Congressional service) before sections 5 and 6 (1998 Congressional campaign and 2006 Congressional campaign). Section 3 occurs last (chronologically) so it might make sense to make it the last section. Patiwat 19:33, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Archive

I have archived the contents prior to 10 March 2007 of this talk page to Talk:Peter Roskam/Archive5. If you wish to recommence a discussion prior to 10 March 2007, visit the appropriate archive and cut and paste the entire conversation over to this page.

I have also placed the archive links in an infobox to the right.

Kind regards,
anthonycfc ^[talk] 06:18, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Good Article Nomination

Good morning (GMT time); I have reviewed this article on 13:24, Tuesday April 3, 2007 (UTC) in accordance with the Good Article (GA) criteria. There are seven main criteria that the article must comply with to pass:

Well-written: Pass
Factually accurate: Pass
Broad: Pass
Neutrally written: Pass
Stable: Pass
Well-referenced: Pass
Images: Pass

I have concluded that, in my opinion, the article has passed all categories and I therefore award it GA status. Congratulations to the lead editors, and keep up the excellent work!

Kindest regards,
anthonycfc ^[talk] 06:18, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GA class?

A few problems yet, despite recent GA rating. 6(c). any non-free images have a fair use rationale. Image:Roskam-Cheney.jpg has no fair-use rationale and is likely to be replaceable fair use. References are also inconsistent in their style, there are many citation templates like {{cite web}} and {{cite book}} that can help. I would say a bare minimum would be <ref>Author. [http://en.wikipedia.org Article name]. Accessed [[March 11]], [[2007]].</ref> There are also a few paragraphs in Personal history and elsewhere that don't end with some kind of citation making the reader wonder if they are cited as well. --Dual Freq 14:28, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Also, 5 sources have the word "blog" in them, they might want to be verified as reliable sources per WP:BLP#Reliable sources. --Dual Freq 14:35, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

I also question the "critical commentary" fair use rationale for Image:Salvi Roskam Maher.png. There is no critical commentary about the advertisement in this article. --Dual Freq 14:55, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree with you that the Image:Roskam-Cheney.jpg may no longer be appropriate for inclusion in the article; however, I think a strong case can be made for retaining Image:Salvi Roskam Maher.png. The image itself is subject to criticism that is included in the article, with reliable sources cited.

Roskam supports tort reform. The Chicago Tribune noted that Roskam earned over $615,000 in 2005 as a personal injury trial lawyer. Terrence Lavin, the former president of the Illinois Bar Association, said that Al Salvi and Roskam promised, "We will never, ever vote for tort reform", when they asked Lavin for a $25,000 donation to a political action committee. Roskam has been accused by political opponents of soliciting frivilous lawsuits via his Yellow Pages ads. ^[1]

I hope we can all be in agreement on this issue. Thank you. Propol 15:47, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

That still doesn't seem to be commentary of the advertisement. Although I haven't looked at the rationale's used on Apple Inc. advertising that page looks like a good example of commentary on the advertisements and would require a fair use illustration of the advertisement. This article only needs to explain the conflict of a lawyer who supports tort reform and link to a reliable source. It doesn't need an image lifted from a blog to make this point. --Dual Freq 16:49, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Dual Freq. I think Propol misunderstands what is meant by "criticism". It does not mean to use an image to criticize someone or something else (like, in this case Roskam), but it is referring to criticism of the image itself, which isn't what this is being used for. Also, let's say that I create an ad for myself, then buy space in some publication, then some blog scans it and publishes it online, don't I retain copyright to the ad? Not the blog, not the publication, but the author. --rogerd 19:35, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I understand "criticism" perfectly well. What Dual Freq and rogerd both seem to miss is that the image itself (Image:Salvi Roskam Maher.png) is a subject of the criticism, not just Peter Roskam. The image originally appeared as an advertisement in the Yellow Pages, the Chicago Tribune then under the fair use doctrine copied the image. It appeared in the print edition of the Tribune - I have seen it. rogerd seems overly concerned that the source cited is a blog -- it's not. It's an article that appeared in the Chicago Tribune, which was subject to fact-checking and editorial review. The hyperlink to the Tribune includes the term blog only because readers can post a response to the article. The original article is a reliable source (whereas I would not consider a reader's response that did not appear in the print edition of Chicago Tribune to be a reliable source). Going back to the fair use issue, if the Chicago Tribune's editorial staff and legal department were comfortable with the image qualifying as fair use, then I think that ought to satisfy our concerns. Dual Freq or rogerd do you think your opinion of fair use is more authoritative than the attorneys' for the Chicago Tribune? Propol 21:16, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, our standard for fair use is more restrictive than the Trib's (or most other paper's) is. --rogerd 21:36, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I have reviewed WP:FU multiple times. Really the only additional requirement is that there be no freely available comparable image. In this case, there is no free alternative. (If you find one, I welcome it.) The inclusion of the image is appropriate. Propol 21:49, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

The Trib doesn't need to worry about international mirror sites, and the article referenced is a blog, it says right on the top of it: Eric Zorn, Change of Subject, A Chicago Tribune Web log. I'm also still not seeing where in this article the ad is being critiqued. --Dual Freq 23:28, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Yes, how is the ad itself criticized? I don't see it either. I don't see that it adds anything to the article. --rogerd 18:20, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

I also agree with the removal of GA, this article needs a bunch of work, citations are not consistent, just looking at the tort reform paragraph shown above. I understand that the point of the author and the blog is to show that Roskam is misleading on his support of the tort reform issue, but this article was vague on dates. It begins saying he supports tort reform, but provides no evidence or examples then it references an incident from the mid-1990s and offers no date leaving the reader to assume it is a recent quote. Even the biased source blog / opinion piece tells that information. I suspect this article is full of similar problems. This article seems long on criticism, and short on biography. Perhaps Barack Obama's article, could serve as a template for this one, with its balance of criticism and biographical detail. However, it's tough to find much criticism in that article, or mention of contributors. No words beginning with "contrib" or "donat" there. At least it doesn't have the extensive blow by blow contributor list like Jerry Weller has. --Dual Freq 23:28, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Removed biased content

I've made clear edit summaries and thoughtfully removed content that was either biased, deceptive or repetitive. Several times sources were not properly represented or only the side of political opposition was given. --Dual Freq 21:12, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm willing to clarify the edits if the edit summaries were not clear enough, but wholesale reversion, especially considering I added a few cited items, is not acceptable. --Dual Freq 21:40, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I support your changes per your reasoning. --rogerd 18:20, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External links

I think its safe to remove the campaign video links since they are old as well as the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee attack page, no added value and no additional information is provided by it. The Congresspedia link also seems to have no additional value as it appears to be a dupe of this article and the vote smart, Wa Post and open-secrets links cover the links provided by Congresspedia. --Dual Freq 16:37, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Agreed --rogerd 18:20, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dead links

I was trying to update refs and standardize them, but there are many dead links and other unverifiable ones. Any idea how to handle those? --Dual Freq 20:22, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Illinois State Representative 40th district

I haven't had much luck finding election details, but I did find that in November 1992 Roskam defeated Democrat Pat Cullerton, brother of Illinois state senator John Cullerton, and in 1996 he defeated Democrat Kevin Schuele (29.2% to 70.8%).[1] I can't find much for 1994 perhaps he ran unopposed. I wanted to add this to the electoral history, but I have no percentages to use for 1992. Anyone have any additional details for 1994 or numbers for 1992? --Dual Freq 23:39, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Chicago Sun Times, November 5, 1992. DISTRICT 40 (100%). Peter Roskam (R) 26609 61% Pat Cullerton (D) 17355 39% --Dual Freq 23:50, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

November 8, 1994 edition, the Sun Times issued no endorsement for the 40th district while listing most other districts in Illinois, so I assume this means it was unopposed. Any problem with adding these totals? --Dual Freq 00:13, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Contributors section.

I have replaced this entirely proper section. If you think there needs to be some sort of balance, go add a list of notable contributors to the similar Democratic politician's pages! --BenBurch 12:27, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Landfill

I don't think the landfill bit belongs in an encyclopedia, biographical article. Doing a LexisNexis search, the only article that comes up for the full text terms Roskam and Molen or the terms Roskam and landfill, relating to this topic, is the Daily Harald article cited, "Roskam challenged on environment Duckworth says challenger is pro-'green'", Eric Krol, Daily Herald Political Writer. The link between Roskam and the landfill seems tenuous at best and seems only to have been used as a typical campaign year smear taking advantage of a 2006 lawsuit. There is no significant national news on this under General news and only this one story under Midwest news sources or Illinois news sources. Since Roskam is not responsible for his contributers alleged actions any more than Duckworth was responsible for her contributors actions. I propose removing this and placing lawsuit details, excluding Roskam since his is not responsible for the landfill, in the Forest Preserve District of DuPage County which makes no mention of the landfill, Mallard lake or the lawsuit. --Dual Freq 15:51, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Make it so. ;-) --BenBurch 17:36, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

I've created a section Forest Preserve District of DuPage County#Mallard Lake County Forest Preserve for the lake and forest preserve / landfill information. I've also removed the Roskam bit from it as noted above. --Dual Freq 19:01, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Biography

In an effort to find some more biographical material for the article, I was thinking of including a small paragraph about father / mother siblings, etc. I consider that to be basics of a biography. What I have so far is Father, Verlyn R. "Swede" Roskam, (age 77 in Oct 2006, originally from Fort Dodge, Iowa), Vice-President (Agriculture division) Oil Dri Corporation of America and mother Martha (Jacobsen?), former school teacher / EAL / retired, unknown age. Father graduated Knox College, Illinois in 1951 (ROTC, 10 months in Korea), mother graduated Knox in 1952.[2][3] Roskam claims to be "brother of 5 doctors".[4] Potential sources include, 1988 award for parents, Roskams contributors P-T lists Mother, father, probable brother Stephen and a Phyllis and Dick Roskam (unknown relation), The Ogden Reporter 2007 - Interesting story about father, perhaps a start of a stub on him. What I'm still looking for is where mother is originally from, just to note it and siblings names or at least how many, brothers / sisters. Possibly a bit more about his wife, not too much just the basics. Any ideas, sources etc? --Dual Freq 23:10, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

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