Talk:Peter Hudson

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[edit] "arguably the greatest..."

Huddo was great, but to say "arguably the greatest..." is hard to conclude. I mean Coventry, Pratt, Todd, Wade, Lockett, Dunstall, McKenna, and yes of course... Ablett Snr... were all prolific full-forwards...weren't they? Someone was the selected full-forward in the AFL Team of the Century and he had a red stripe on his jumper...someone who could fly like a bird...—The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jaker5 (talk • contribs) 23:47, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

... and here you are seemingly arguing whether its true or not, hence the phrasing seems to have proved its point.  :)

The text in the introduction gives ample detail of Hudson's prolific scoring. As you posed a query about some other great forwards and offered a comment re the AFL TOTC as a criterion perhaps I can help you a little with your comparison.

Hudson: 289 senior games for New Norfolk, Hawthorn and Glenorchy 1963 to 1981, 1,721 goals at an average of 5.95 goals per game;

Lockett: 281 games with St Kilda and Sydney, 1,360 goals - average of 4.84 goals per game

Coventry: 306 games, 1299 goals - average 4.25 goals/game

Coleman: 98 games, kicked 537 goals - average 5.47 goals/game

At least in the Hudson article's introduction the word "arguably" appears. I note that the entry on John Coleman says in part "Confirming his status as the greatest full-forward to play the game, he was named as the full-forward in the AFL's team of the century." - relying upon the AFL TOTC committee's judgement from the VFL/AFL competition only to bestow such a definitive title. Quite rightly they were only looking at the one League's history. No mention or consideration of other greats such as Ken Farmer (SANFL, 1929-1941, 224 games, 1419 goals - average 6.33 goals/game) or George Doig (WANFL, 1933-1945, 223 games, 1165 goals - average 5.47 goals/game) entered into the AFL TOTC deliberations, nor would they have considered Hudson's Tasmanian football career.

I think you have proved that the point could be argued, but you basis for argument is limited to say the least if you rely only on the VFL/AFL. Hudson was a great player in two States and to me the wording seems appropriate.

There is of course a separate argument altogether over whether or not descriptors such as "Champion" or "greatest" should be used at all in Wikipedia. But that was not the point of your comment as I read it.

Pudgey 22:03, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Use of the descriptor "champion" serves a purpose...it defines one who has played the game at a level over-and-above the ordinary. It could be number of goals, marks, kicks, effectiveness in play, tagging opposition, and so on. It differentiates players. But the use of the term "greatest", well that could mean many things. It could mean the best average as in Hudson's case. However, it could mean the most goals kicked in a season - Pratt's 150 was in fewer games played than Hudson, or it could mean the highest number of goals in a finals series or a grand final i.e. Ablett's 1989 finals performance, or it could mean the longest sequence of centuries scored - Ablett's hat-trick 1993-95, or it could mean the most number of goals in a game (or perhaps 'all' of the goals in a game) as in Doig's case. And the circumstances under which the player is playing football should be taken into account as well. Hudson and Coleman played in champion teams that won premierships, so is this the same as Lockett's situation with St Kilda or Sydney that did not win premierships when he played? Better footballers around Coleman and Hudson ensured that more opportunities to score goals would become available. If Lockett had played in those teams at Essendon or Hawthorn of that ere, he may have had an even more prolific career. So it is not conclusive to say the "greatest", but more appropriate to say "one of the greatest". But if I had to pick a FF, I would phrase it like this:

...once upon a time a champion walked on onto the turf...to do what no other full-forward has ever done...to kick goals...to kick a hundred goals...to do it three years in a row...and to do it all in his thirties...Jaker5 04:28, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I've edited the intro to read "one of the greatest" and we'll all seemingly be quite happy with that. I couldn't quite bring myself to the lyrical phrasing you suggested. :) Pudgey 05:50, 24 March 2007 (UTC)