Talk:Pentecost
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[edit] Day of the Pentergram
I have removed the reference to 'The Day of the Pentergram'. Firstly, I don't think that 'pentergram' is a word. It is not in the Oxford or Merriam-Webster dictionaries and it does not appear on Wikipedia. The only occurrence of it in conection with the Pentecost that shows up on Google is on this page. I suspect that what was meant here was 'pentagram', but I can see no other reference to 'the day of the pentagram' or any reliable connection between the Penecost and the pentgram.
If anyone wants to put it back, please provide some evidence of the connection. Seth ze 00:47, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Cleanup needed
Yikes. This little article needs a lot of work. Mkmcconn 06:26 3 Jul 2003 (UTC)
- better Mkmcconn 19:58, 20 Feb 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Remove cleanup tag?
I believe that this article may be sufficiently cleaned up now that we can remove the clean-up tag. If a few others could read over it and make sure that you're happy with it too, then that would be great. -- Jarich 10:49, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
I didn't read the entire article; however, I came here to comment on how clear it is. I've been surfing christian terminology (like ecclesiology, catholicism, orthodoxy, etc.) and most of the articles are so complicated that they left me more confused than when I began. I still don't have a basic understanding of most of what I read. This article alone clarified this term to the point where I believe I have a basic understanding now, finally, of Pentecost and Pentecostal. If it needs cleaning up, that would be for technicalities only, as the article is already very clear and helpful. Please spay/neuter; it saves lives! 06:40, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Pentecost traditions
Where was the Pentecost service that traditionally had a (paper? white silk?) dove descend on a ring sliding down a long slanting wire? Wetman 20:58, 3 Mar 2004 (UTC)
[edit] The {} sign/s
One or more of the sign/s: {{NPOV}}{{expansion}}{{Cleanup}} placed on this page without any discussion, explanation or reasoning have been removed pending further discussion. (The category Category:Bible stories is now up for a vote for deletion at Wikipedia:Categories for deletion#Category:Bible stories) Thank you. IZAK 08:23, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Passover & Pentecost
In terms of actual christian theology this is weak. I teach a second grade class that already knows the ideas here. Is this written for adult christians? Show me the words of Jesus or the apostles about this. This is the second most important event in christianity after the advent of Jesus. Is this actually all you can say about it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Engr.student (talk • contribs) 11:31, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
- Who is "you" ? If you feel this needs more, please go ahead and add it. -- Beardo 03:55, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Hi Sam, just wondering what the point was in trying to disambiguate Passover from Pentecost. Passover or Pesach is the Jewish holiday, and Shavuot occurs 7 weeks later. Pentecost is the Christian holiday that occurs seven weeks after Easter. I'm sure you know all this, so I'm simply curious what your intentions were. JFW | T@lk 17:39, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- Pentacost used to redirect there [1]. Since you opposed the disambig, I redirected it to Pentecost, and placed a disambig there. I find your reverts and the reasoning for them unhelpful. Sam Spade 17:43, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Thank you for fixing the redirect. It obviates the need for disambiguation at the top of Passover. JFW | T@lk 17:59, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- We still havn't resolved the issue of your reverts regarding the disambig header @ Pentecost however... Sam Spade 20:02, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I agree that the reader should be able to "find what they are looking for", but the previous version was misleading and incorrect.
Old version:
- Note: This article is mostly about the Christian holiday of Pentecost. For the Jewish holiday of "Pentecost" see the articles on Shavuot, or passover
My version:
There is only one small difference between these disambiguation lines, namely the mention of Passover. The article itself makes it abundantly clear that Pentecost is a Christian holiday, and as I stated quite clearly in my edit summary, the term "pentecost" only bears distant causal relationship and should certainly not be disambiguated at the top of the article. As far as I'm concerned there is nothing to resolve, Jack. JFW | T@lk 21:59, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
- Pentacost used to redirect to passover. Now it redirects to pentecost. Seems obvious to me that a link to passover be handy in the disambig. I agree that may not be perfectly precise, but disambigs arn't ment to be. They are rather a resource to help people find the article they are looking for. Sam Spade 22:03, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Well, the pentacost redirect was erroneous, and we should not be promulgating that error. This page is about Ford, the American car manufacturer. See also Mitsubishi. Can we please just leave this alone now? JFW | T@lk 22:21, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Whit?
There are contradictory statements about the origins of the term "whitsunday" in the introduction and body of this article. I am not sufficiently learned in the subject to judge which is correct, but it is a rather glaring error.
- User:65.96.215.51, you must be referring to this edit: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pentecost&diff=15623538&oldid=15569099 by User:195.93.21.67. Thank you for pointing this out. I'll go get help from Wikipedia:Pages needing attention/Religion. -- PFHLai 00:27, 2005 September 8 (UTC)
[edit] Version of the Bible
I'm just wondering if use of the NIV would be better than the version used for the scripture verses here. The NIV, in my opinion, is alot more "readable" and easier to understand. So I'd like to change the verses to NIV for clarity purposes. Are there any objections? (Cabin Tom 19:58, 22 January 2006 (UTC))
- Present version appears to be King James. No objections to changing it from me. -- Jarich 10:49, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
- To: Cabin Tom --- The NIV is a "Conversationally Edited" Bible version, and is not an accurate translation. If you have difficulty reading and understanding a genuine translation of the Bible (Like the KJV), get yourself a New American Standard Version (NASV), for that is the most technically accurate translation into modern American English.
- The NASV is a linguist's joy and an etymologist's delight.
- Read the Preface to the NASV to discover the motivation and rationale responsible for its production, because it is directly related to the appearance of the NIV in the 1950s... And, it's a good story. --Hankdm 07:28, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Chode
I've just removed a link to Chode since it was, ahem, rather inappropriate. I can't find any mention of this term in a theological context so maybe someone would like to create an article for it, or just remove the reference (just "50 days after Easter" is fine surely?). Hairy Dude 13:47, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
49 days after Easter. (7 weeks). It's the 50th day (that means Pentecost in Greek), if Easter is the 1st. And the 8th Sunday (if Easter is the first). --Lagarto 15:31, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Whitsun
It is still contradictory as to whether Whitsun is white or not. And I think the bold Whitsun should be mentioned in the first paragraph. --Henrygb 22:41, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Most sources (including Meriam Webster) give white. -- Beardo 07:00, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
As noted first sentance in :
"The name "Whit" does not come from use of white robes/garments worn at baptism. This tradition of wearing white started after Pentecost was called Whit Sunday. The word "whit" comes from the word "wisdom", one of the gifts of the Spirit at Pentecost. Hence the varying names for Pentecost in other countries, individually signifying various gifts, attributes and signs of the Holy Spirit. ( F Noy -Dorchester)"
conflicts with other parts of this page.
The second sentance - what names in other languages. Anyone have examples.
And this "F Noy - Dorchester" - is that a reference. The only F Noy I could find in a google search linked to Dorchester is a firm of car repairers.
-- Beardo 14:45, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
Brewer has:
Whitsunday.
White Sunday. The seventh Sunday after Easter, to commemorate the “Descent of the Holy Ghost” on the day of Pentecost. In the Primitive Church the newly-baptised wore white from Easter to Pentecost, and were called alba’ti (white-robed). The last of the Sundays, which was also the chief festival, was called emphatically Domin’ica in Albis (Sunday in White). 1
Another etymology is Wit or Wisdom Sunday, the day when the Apostles were filled with wisdom by the Holy Ghost. 2
This day Wit-sonday is cald. For wisdom and wit serene fald, Was zonen to the Apostles as this day. Cambr. Univer. MSS., Dd. i. 1, p. 234. (Compare Witten-agemote.) 3
We ought to kepe this our Witsonday bicause the law of God was then of the Holy Wyght or Ghost deliured gostly vnto vs.—Taverner (1540).
This day is called Wytsonday because the Holy Ghost brought wytte and wysdom into Christis disciples … and filled them full of ghostly wytte.—In die Pentecostis (printed by Wynken de Worde).
http://www.bartleby.com/81/17457.html
-- Beardo 14:47, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Whitsunday?
It appears that there have been some edits that removed all references to Whitsunday until you get to the middle of the article: "...elsewhere in Italy Whitsunday is called Pascha rosatum." I can only surmise that Whitsunday is the same as Pentecost because a search on Whitsunday redirected me to the this article, but there needs to be some language explaining it. Rmesler 21:04, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
Now included a mention in the first paragraph. -- Beardo 01:58, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Concerning: "When is Pentecost?"
The Wikipedia section "When is Pentecost?" begins: "According to Church tradition... "
However, would that one prefer to eschew mere Church tradition and adhere, instead, to an authentic Biblical date for Pentecost:
There is only one (1) genuinely authentic Pentecost, annually!
There is not a separate "Christian" Pentecost on a different date than the Biblical date God has established for the Hebrew High Holy Day of Pentecost (Shavu'ot).
On the first "Christian" Pentecost, the correct date was determined using the Hebrew calendar, it was neither calculated from nor associated with pagan Easter, for the correct annual date of Pentecost is not connected to the date of Easter.
All of the events surrounding the Pentecost of the New Testament (Acts Of The Apostles, Chapter 2) occurred on a major Hebrew High Holy Day, an Annual High Sabbath Day, which is a "Pilgrimage" Sabbath. (About which, see: Ex. 23:14-17; Lev. Chapter 23; Deu. 16:16)
In the Wikipedia > Pentecost section "When is Pentecost?"... [2]
Pentecost was on Sunday, June 12, 2005 - Not on May 15, as stated in Wikipedia.
Pentecost will be on Sunday, June 8, 2008 - Not on May 11, as stated in Wikipedia.
Pentecost will be on Sunday, June 11, 2016 - Not on May 15, as stated in Wikipedia.
Remember, there is not a traditional "Christian" Pentecost on some different date, there is only a "False" Pentecost on some different date.
Pentecost always occurs on a Sunday, 50 days from the Hebrew's Feast of First Fruits. (Not 50 days from Easter!)
The Roman Catholics established the "50 days from Easter" date 300 years after Christ Jesus, around the 4th century, CE; while God established the "50 days from the Hebrew's Feast of First Fruits" date around the 15th century, BCE.
Whom should one believe to accurately determine the date for Pentecost? God, maybe?
The Feast of First Fruits is always on the Sunday following The Passover.
And, the Sunday following The Passover is when Christ Jesus was resurrected.
And, The Passover is when Christ Jesus was crucified.
But, occasionally (i.e. 2005, 2008, 2016, et. al.), Easter is capricious and falls a month before The Passover. About which, see:
During any given century, a capricious Easter occurs a month before The Passover about 20% of the time. And, Easter was capricious before there was a Christ, or Christians. Easter has been capricious since its institution over 5,000 years ago.
When a Christian counts 50 days from Easter in hope of determining the date for Pentecost, in those years when a capricious Easter occurs a month before The Passover (2008), a false date for Pentecost will occur about a month before the authentic Biblical Pentecost. A month before the God-ordained, God-established Pentecost (Shavu'ot) on the Hebrew calendar.
In 2008, Roman Catholics, Episcopalians, Methodists, and most all other Christian denominations that focus so strongly (and wrongly!) on Easter will be falsely and meaninglessly celebrating the Christian Pentecost on May 11, 2008, while the genuinely authentic, God-ordained, God-established Pentecost is 28 days later, on June 8, 2008.
With this information, why would anyone care to celebrate the Christian Pentecost, in 2008, on a false and meaningless date?
And, you might wish to ask yourself: "How could Christ Jesus be resurrected from the dead on any Easter (2008) that occurs a month before the day of His crucifixion, death and burial on The Passover?" To be resurrected before having died would be one of the greatest miracles, ever! --Hankdm 08:10, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
How does one undo the vandalism? Dawn22 16:23, 26 February 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Removed text
The following text was added by User:Hankdm in January to the Etymology section.
- "PENTECOST" is the Greek word used (ca. BCE 270) in the Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Bible (what Christians call the Old Testament) in reference to the Jewish holiday of Shavuot (also known as the "Feast Of Weeks"), which is celebrated every year in the late spring.--Hankdm 12:10, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
I've removed it. Please feel free to integrate the information contained here into the article.
Jarich 05:32, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
