User talk:PaxEquilibrium/Archive2

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[edit] Luka Jacov

Još mi nisi odgovorio na pitanja:). Luka Jačov 01:46, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Još nisi odgovorio....Luka Jačov 00:20, 3 January 2006 (UTC)


Dobijam dojam da me izbjegavaš? Luka Jačov 17:20, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Kaqi tehnički problemi? Luka Jačov 17:38, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Koji točno lokalitet? MOže neki grad? Inače ne znam dal si vidio Lastovo nakon proširenja? Nisi mi dao mišljenje o SDK. Luka Jačov 20:45, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Mislim na Gudščane. Na kojem su lokalitetu živjeli. Što ne zanima te tema SDK-a? Ili? Luka Jačov 21:18, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

Oprosti ali ne znam na što se odnosi upitnik :-). Luka Jačov 17:40, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Što se tiče Guduščana me je zadovoljio al nisam dobio za SDK. Luka Jačov 12:07, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Kuc-Kuc Luka Jačov 12:24, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Evo danas ču Liku. Inače sad sam na ICQ-u i MSN-u. Luka Jačov 12:40, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Vidim da se IRC treba platit 20$ ajd downloadaj ICQ ili MSN ak moreš. Inače u vezi podjela na Medivial, Industrial and Modern iako je to opče prihvačena globalna podjela povjesti mislim da bi kod lokalnih tema ipak vrjedile neke druge. npr: mediaval, ottoman rule... ili tako nešto. inače u vezi Guduščana zašto ih ne spomeneš u Lici? Luka Jačov 12:58, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Kuc-kuc. Luka Jačov 13:11, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Što je sa četom? Luka Jačov 13:28, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

-( Luka Jačov 13:40, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Da al ti znaš više o Guduščanima. Kako to da nisi zainteresiran za komunikaciju van wikipedie? Luka Jačov 15:58, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Kuc-kuc. Luka Jačov 18:16, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Podrzao bih ti kandidaturu ali nisam bio pri Vikipediji tada. Sledeci put... Nikola 09:39, 30 December 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Ban (title)

The title was first used in croatia in the 1200th century, whereas it was used in Bosnia by native Bosnian bans from the 7th century. Article must be rewritten. Best Damir Mišić 12:27, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Nationality

It matters, HRE, when you start to act peculiar - chudno.--VKokielov 01:04, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Ti ne razumijes da tvoj animozni stav protiv Hrvata i Muslimana ovdje ispada kao paranoja.A paranoja samo obraca ljude protiv tebe.Moj savjet: prvo, pazi; drugo, znaj vlastito mjesto.Nije od znacaja tko drugi zna ili ne zna svoje mjesto.Na kraju krajeva, ti si odgovoran za sve pred sobom - i za provale, i za uspijehe. --VKokielov 20:50, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
Znaci, mozda razumijem da si presao na "vi" zbog moje poruke.Ali to se ne vidi iz tvoga odgovora i mene uvrijeda - upravo jer znaci "nemam za tebe vec vremena".Nemoj tako raditi.Kao nisto drugo, to je oznak lukavosti.Ja se nadam da nisi lukav, ali tako se cini s onog sto si uradio.
A o Hrvatima i Bosnjacima nemoj se prikrivati imperatorskim odijelom sto ga pruze opca izrecenja.Sad necu ulaziti u posebnosti, jer to ce bit uvrijedno i nepotrebno.Dosta je reci da si spreman da ratujes protiv kojeg bilo Hrvata ili Bosnjaka, taman da ne posjeduje bas *tvoj* pogled na stvari.Ja tome ponavljam opet: tvoj pogled je cudan.Cudne stvari zahtjevaju dokaza, a ovi dokazi moraju biti pruzani ne od strane optuzenog, nego od strane drustva kojem te stvari cine se cudnim.Dakle, tvoje drustvo se sastoji od ljudi sa stavima ne manje cudnim od tvojeg vlastitog.Prihvati to kao cinjenicu, hoces li?Prihvati sad, dok nije prekasno.Ja ne znam koliko ti imas godina, i ne znam sto pokusavas da drzis nad nama.Ali pazi: ako ima nesto da otkrijes, bolje je da otkrijes sad, prije nego netko to otkrije za tebe.--VKokielov 08:41, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
Srecna nova godina...Mislim da cemo se ipak sloziti.--VKokielov 18:09, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Na sta se sve ovo odnosi?

And, why should I care about my reputation in the eyes of Asim, Dado and (E)mir? Nikola 11:59, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Happy New Year!

A great new year for you, too! bogdan 19:01, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Matej Ninoslav

Main text isn`t mine,I just did copy/paste when I saw two articles about the same person.Text is made by Branko,But he obviously took it from somewhere(it was written on latin alphabet and has words used in western parts).I will also look through my sources about it and "report" to you what I found. --CrniBombarder!!! (†) 21:14, 31 December 2005 (UTC)


[edit] New article

Great article Emperor, but I noticed a tag on it?. Damir Mišić

[edit] Image:Kulin.jpg

You defined the source for this image, but not its license. Do you know the license for this image? -- Elle vécut heureusement toujours dorénavant (Be eudaimonic!) 01:11, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] links you sent

i am on vacation and don't have time/opportunity for countless hours on wikipedia (that I usually make room for ;) so when I get back, I'll read articles you sent me links for.. I peeked at them, they look nice :)

Happy new year!

Svetlana Miljkovic 15:15, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Demografija

Holy

Radit cu malo na tom clanku kasnije danas. Live Forever 21:12, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hello

Hello Holy, how have you been? Did you have a happy Christmas and a happy new year? Izehar 19:41, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Belated christmas

Of course I don't mind. I hope you had a good Christmas too. Live Forever 21:01, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] sh.wiki glasanje

Trenutno se glasa da li da se sh. wiki ugasi na njenoj Pijaci. Izvini što ti nisam odgovorio za probleme jer ih ima mnogo, pa nisam znao na koji misliš. U svakom slučaju pozivam te da glasaš na Pijaci. Pozdrav, --M. Pokrajac 01:29, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Odgovor

Hej! pozdrav! Da ti odgovorim na pitanja! prvo, i dalje slobodno uređuj moju User Page. Meni ne smeta. Pa ne bavim se ovim iz nekog interesa, baš je zabavno. Kad mi dosadi, uzeti ću odmor... Samo ostavi u tabli da govorim hrvatski (hrvat sam) i nešto malo engleski, ali napredujem. Što se tiče Prijezde I. Pa znaš da se imena vladara počinju brojkama, I,II,III,IV,V... ako sa vremenom (ime,pojam i sl.) Prijezda bude još nešto označavao, može postati i Disambiguation page. I za kraj, pa odakle ti da Prijezda I i Prijezda II nisu članovi House of Kotromanić? Jesu.99% (ništa nije 100%). Pročitaj hrvatsku stranicu o dinastiji ili encikopediju Lekikografskog zavoda (hrvatska enc.). Dinastija je dobila ime po Kotromanu ali je Prijezda I prvi poznati član te dinastije!

Za kraj, mislim da je u stranica o državi Bosnia and Herzegovina u komi. To jest, onaj dio o povijesti. Pa to treba u nekoliko rečenica reći a detalji idu u stranci za povijest...ovo je predugačko. Što se tiče stranice History of Bosnia and Herzegovina...Idi na Talk:History of Bosnia and Herzegovina ak ti nije problem za raspravu o dijeljenju stranice (37. Separate articles). pozdrav! Boris Živ

[edit] Archived

As requested :) Regards -- sannse (talk) 16:55, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] To Boris Ziv

Ali... ja ti nisam dirao User Page!

A to sa Prijezdama, pogledaj Trpimirovic dynasty i Nemanjić. Trpimir i Stefan Nemanja nisu bili prvi iz svoje kuće, al' su prvi iz te dinastije. --HolyRomanEmperor 16:00, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Sukobi

Uglavnom, revert war -- mislim da momak gura svoj PoV o Bosancima/Bošnjacima narodu najstarijem preko prihvatljive mjere. (Talk:Bosnians, Talk:Bosniaks, Talk:Meša Selimović) Duja 16:16, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

I ja to mislim. Zar se pretvara? ;;-) – nisam primijetio. Ako i da, prilicno lose. Duja 13:41, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Croatian_history

I placed a little disclaimer in Category:Croatian history. Most items should still be categorized under Category:History of Croatia. For example, if Duklja, Zahumlje, and Travunia lie within the current borders of the Republic of Croatia they should still be categorized under Category:History of Croatia. This is the standard set up in Wikipedia:WikiProject History. But, yes, Boka Kotorska, Kosovo, and Vojvodina would more accurately fit into the new category because Category:History of Croatia has a nationalist connotation to it. --Thewanderer 20:24, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lika

Eto napiso sam. Luka Jačov 22:23, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question

The magazine has moved. Now you can find it on [1] (English) or [2] (Serbian). You should also take a look at [3]. A quote: "Трагајући даље, Слободан Шћепановић је, на основу докумената из дубровачког архива, раније писаних дјела и сачуване усмене традиције, дошао до закључка да је Руђеров чукундједа, у ствари, Бошко Станишин Шћепановић из Роваца у Црној Гори**. **То потврђује и В. М. Булатовић у веома исцрпној и богатој студији о Ровцима и Ровчанима." You could even wrote an article on his father, who wrote a couple of books and is notable person himself.

Have you seen that a new extension, Cite.php is installed? It's quite nice, and I'd advice you to use it to cite your articles. Nikola 06:47, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

As I see that you are now propagating the myth of Greater Serbia, don't expect any help from me in the future. Nikola 07:22, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] About Ninoslav(finaly)

The author obviously says he was a Serb because of that manuscript you also mentioned.He wasn`t really forced(became catholic or you will be killed),but Magayr gave him the choice either you became catholic or you stay bogumil and we will place someone else instead of you as ban.In that situation he "became" catholic and was catholic as long as treat of Magayars was close when they crossed Sava he return to bogumils.

About your text, I have never seen that he was a catholic and supporter of Magayrs,especially since he became a ban because of bogumils support and he replaced ban Stevan(Kulins only son)who was promagayr and catholic(he spent time in Magayr as captive and there he was probably convinced in catholicism).

I also found mentioning of someone named Ponza as bosnian catholic archbishop after the crusade and that he worked hard on spreading catholicism.I`m going to look up about it as soon as can since my exams are very close. --CrniBombarder!!! (†) 08:18, 12 January 2006 (UTC)


Actually no it is not my dear friend, how come then Bosnian Language is called for example in italian "La lingua bosniaca, (bosanski jezik)" check this dictionary as well http://www.ultralingua.net/yd/ydindex.html?text=bosnian&service=english2french Damir Mišić 20:45, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Serbs of Croatia Image

Hi. I made on here: . I don't think it's necessary to add the population statistics since they are already included in the main Serbs article -- but you can add an image anyway. Antidote 01:07, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Izbrisao sam jer mislim da se zasad nema smisla ponavljati no ako misliš proširit dobro. Inače meni se čini logičnijim prevodom Krajine i Krajišnika Borderland i Borderlanders jer Krajina ne znači granica več granično područje. Luka Jačov 18:59, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Sad sam na irc-u. Luka Jačov 19:52, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Daj mi samo reci onda kad češ bit na ircu i u kojoj sobi. Luka Jačov 15:06, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Show me the image you prefer for Milutin and I will replace it. Also, a statistics box was removed by Elephantus and I agree with that since we already have a statistics box for Serbs. Instead we can just put an image, I suppose. Or whatever else you want -- I just don't like the idea of a statistics box. Antidote 20:06, 13 January 2006 (UTC)
OK, I will replace that image. If you want to show the areas where the populations are plenty, I guess you can use a wikitable like the one found here: Sânnicolau Mare. Antidote 13:55, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Hi. Yes it originally had Boscovic but User:Elephantus uploaded an image over it without Boscovic because he doesn't think he's a Serb. I don't know if I should reupload it again. Antidote 22:39, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

That's the problem, I can't find a picture of Karamata big enough to put in this image. If you could find one, then I will. Thanks. Antidote 23:16, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Also, I see your are fluent in Serbo-Croatian. I am wondering if you could translate sr:Стеван Христић this article into English for me, since we are missing the English language entry. There are other composers who have articles on the Serbian wikipedia but who are lacking here. Whenever you get a chance, and if its not too much work, can you translate these into a rough english version (I will fix for grammar and add images and all that jazz). Thanks. Antidote 01:14, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Amazing job =-0. I can't believe you translated it so quickly. Thank you very much. Right now, we have to find an image that can replace Boscovic in the Serbs of Croatia image. I cannot find a picture of Karamata or Runjanin big/or good enough to satisfy the sizing. I suppose I can simply put Boscovic back in if you wish. Antidote 19:54, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Just to let you know, Boscovic was deleted again. I'll try to find images of Karamata. Antidote 23:18, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Hello, I'm slightly reluctant about adding Marko Car given he was radical, but I don't see any reason not to add Baltazar, so I did. He was pretty famous in Croatia, and well-rounded in accomplishments so I think he's a good choice. Antidote 20:09, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Images

When uploading images scanned from a book or other printed material you should include the name of the original publication and other data. Also, please refrain from tagging images as public domain if you're not reasonably certain that they're indeed in the public domain. It is not some kind of "default" tag to be included when you're not certain what to do; it needs to be backed up by data. --Elephantus 02:54, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Jesi sad na IRC-u? Luka Jačov 23:22, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Ajd mi pliz odgovri, stvarno bih htio porazgovarati o nekim stvarima i mogučoj saradnji. Luka Jačov 23:28, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Just couple of minures. I am in wikipedia-sr room now. Luka Jačov 23:33, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Dobivam nekako dojam da me u zadnje vrjeme izbjegavaš. Luka Jačov 23:53, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Sad sam na ircu pa dođi. Luka Jačov 15:17, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Reci mi kako se točno zove soba.Luka Jačov 23:57, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

Evo skužih, pa dođi u sobi. Sad sam tamo garant:)! Luka Jačov 00:09, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Jesi sad na irc-u? Luka Jačov 13:35, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Kad češ biti dulje vremena na irc-u? Luka Jačov 21:49, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Kad čemo na irc? Luka Jačov 19:44, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Novi nacrt za historiju BiH

Nemam ništa protiv da napišeš članak o historiji Hercegovine, i pomoći ću ti kad mognem. Međutim, što se tiće Bosne to je komplikovano jer taj izraz historijski označava cijelu zemlju, uključujuči i Hercegovinu. Iako su obadvoje regije u imenu savremene države, Hercegovina nije historijski jednaka Bosni u smislu važnosti. Live Forever 20:57, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mapa

"I didn't insist on that map to be included!"

Ako misliš na moj komentar kod izmena članka o istoriji BIH, taj komentar je bio za Nikolu. PANONIAN (talk) 16:44, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your edits

On Talk:Lika you wrote:

When I write something; Elephantus is bound to show up and delete (as he usually does to my contirubtions :) I judged this only by the way that he expresses severe nationalist tendencies. I would much rather write a truthful or at least a nearly-truthful article and feed his nationalist hunger than fight pointless edit wars!

Your words and your actions seem to be in contradiction. Despite proclaiming yourself "...a globalist, an internationalist, an idealist, an anti-nationalist and a cosmopolitan.", you apparently prefer adding nationalist claims, which are bound to prove controversial, to many articles, backing them with literal translations of biased or extremely biased, poorly researched material. I suggest re-reading of WP:NPOV and WP:V. I also recommend WP:NOT, especially the section "Wikipedia is not a soapbox". You should also take writings of one-sided historians and others with a bucketload of salt, or at least let others do that, if you yourself are unwilling or unable to do so. --Elephantus 22:24, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Ok, but if you note the translation is in french and not in italian concerning the Bosniak - bosniaque translation. Damir Mišić 19:28, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

However, I had the luck to escape the war and the bombarding of zadar (where I am from). During the war I was situated in Germany for 6 years before returning to Zadar in 96 which was the very first time after the war ended, In 96 the town was recovering but the traces of war were still noteable. If you are intressted in talking to people who actually lived there during the war I will try to get in contact with some for you, I cannot promise anything but I will try if you wish. Damir Mišić 19:28, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Kad čemo na irc? Luka Jačov 19:44, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Kako to da mi još nisi odgovorio? Luka Jačov 15:04, 18 January 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Balthazzar Bogišić

I will attempt to make an article on him. I'll get to you when its finished. Antidote 17:24, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

OK. I started a little bit Baltazar Bogišić, but unfortunately it needs a lot of work. I'm not certain if there is an article on him on the Croatian or Serbian wikipedias - if so, the information there would help. Antidote 18:50, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Found the Serbian article sr:Валтазар Богишић. Antidote

[edit] Talk:Sima Lozanic

Hi, whenever you get a chance, see how much you can translate from the talk page there. I did the first paragraph but afterwards starting getting lost with some of the wording. Take as much time as you want - there's no rush for this. I will continue to translate as much as I can meanwhile. :) Antidote 05:19, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Kad čemo na IRC? Luka Jačov 13:54, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

Ajmo na IRC sad:-)? Luka Jačov 00:33, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Republika Srpska

There is an ongoing mediation. You can make some comments here. Hope that helps :) - FrancisTyers 09:37, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Nešto sam ti se zamjerio? Luka Jačov 16:33, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mehmed-pasa

Don't worry, I just haven't had the time to respond as I've been very busy. Hopefully by the end of the week. Live Forever 19:40, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Marko Car

Sorry, Emperor, but information on him is actually very difficult to find as I struggle reading some of the SerboCroatian texts. I have searched for this name, and turned up nothing, especially in English texts. I honestly have little knowledge of who this is. :( Antidote 01:48, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Srpska zastava

Ma jok Holy, imao sam wikibreak do danas. Sto se zastave tice, nisam odmah odgovorio, a kontao sam da ces je sam naci na Flag of Serbia – bilo je prilicno ocigledno, zar ne?. Pozdrav, Duja 13:07, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mapa Jugoslavije

Koliko sam shvatio pitao si da li mogu da nacrtam posleratnu etničku mapu bivše Jugoslavije. Mislim da ne mogu, jer nemam dovoljno podataka za tako nešto. Etničke mape Srbije, Crne Gore i Makedonije koje sam radio sam bazirao na mapama opština ovih teritorija i na podacima sa popisa stanovništva o etničkom sastavu svih tih opština. U Hrvatskoj i Makedoniji je formirano mnogo novih opština a ja nemam ni mapu sa tim novim opštinama ni podatke o njihovom etničkom sastavu. Dalje, novu etničku kartu BIH je teško nacrtati bez novog popisa stanovništva. Mape koje radim obično baziram na podlozi jedne postojeće mape (a ne na podlozi više njih). Dakle da bih uradio mapu kakvu tražiš morao bih imati kao podlogu jednu mapu bivše Jugoslavije sa ucrtanim svim (novim) opštinama iz svih republika i podatke o etničkom sastavu svih tih opština (a nemam ni jedno ni drugo). One mape sa sajta www.rastko.org.yu pokazuju samo granice predratnih opština a ne ovih novih, tako da mi to puno ne vredi. Mislim da će takva mapa kakvu predlažeš moći da se uradi tek posle novog popisa u BIH. PANONIAN (talk) 20:37, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

"Mislio sam da je popis za BiH gotov... Barem tako kaže Demographics of Bosnia and Herzegovina"

Gde kaže? Tamo piše samo da su ti podaci procena. Ne znam da je skoro bio novi popis u BIH. PANONIAN (talk) 21:11, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Two people

Holy, can you tell me what you know (if anything) about the following two poets: Kosta Abrašević and Ratko Popovic. If you can, also provide a source. Thanks so much. Antidote 00:50, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Husein i ustanak

Jedan članak je životpis Gradaščevića a drugi je samo o bosanskom ustanku. Za sada su tekstovi maltene identični pa je malo bezveze, ali mislim da bi u budućnosti to mogao postati jedan kvalitetan i zaseban članak. Što se tiče Sokolovića, tek sam sad ovih dana nešto slobodan pa ću ti odgovoriti čim stignem. Live Forever 20:12, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Croatian history, Lika

User:PANONIAN has removed my categorizing of History of Vojvodina in Croatian history. I brought up the fact that Lika is similarly categorized under Serbian history and he says that this is incorrect as well. Now, either I'll have to remove Lika from Serbian history, or hopefully you could work out a compromise with PANONIAN (I don't have time to deal with issues that make me seem like some sort of nationalist, so it would probably be easier for you to deal with this). Thanks.--Thewanderer 17:06, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Do not worry, I already removed Lika from "Serbian history", and all other articles which were in similar wrong categories. :) PANONIAN (talk) 03:28, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lastovo

Pa što ne glasaš kad znaš da je glasanje u tjeku:-)! Luka Jačov 20:52, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Glasanje?IRC?:-) Luka Jačov 18:29, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Pa de si? :-) Luka Jačov 23:58, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stefan Dragutin i Vladislav

Ok, hvala za link, u svakom slučaju koliko sam ja već proučio tu temu, Ugrin Čak je taj koji je vladao Sremom i Slavonijom kao nezavisni vladar, a posle njegove smrti je mađarski kralj te teritorije priključio svojoj državi. Možda je onda mađarski kralj to dao na upravu Stefanu Vladislavu. Međutim, u članku o Stefanu Vladislavu piše da je on dobio Slavoniju 1292. Dakle, nije mi još sve to potpuno jasno. :)

PANONIAN (talk) 03:25, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Ston.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Ston.jpg. However, the image may soon be deleted unless we can determine the copyright holder and copyright status. The Wikimedia Foundation is very careful about the images included in Wikipedia because of copyright law (see Wikipedia's Copyright policy).

The copyright holder is usually the creator, the creator's employer, or the last person who was transferred ownership rights. Copyright information on images on Wikipedia is signified using copyright templates. The three basic license types on Wikipedia are open content, public domain, and fair use. Find the appropriate template in Wikipedia:Image copyright tags and place it on the image page like this: {{TemplateName}}.

Please signify the copyright information on any other images you have uploaded or will upload. Remember that images without this important information can be deleted by an administrator. You can get help on image copyright tagging from Wikipedia talk:Image copyright tags. -- Carnildo 22:23, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Independence

Look, I want full independe of Montenegro but there are other countries that i believe that must be independent because of what they're doing to it.

P.S. What Country are you from anyway? If from Montenegro, Tell me what city.

CrnaGora 20:23, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Independence causes problems, economic problems. If Montenegro secedes, then it may be harder for them to join the EU. --Latinus (talk (el:)) 12:47, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

So, where are you from? --Latinus (talk (el:)) 13:51, 4 February 2006 (UTC) (I'm assuming either Bosnia, Croatia, Serbia or Montenegro)

Why don't you answer me? --Latinus (talk (el:)) 14:43, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

No one knows... I'm sure though, that in about fifteen years, all former Yugoslavia (including Kosovo), Albania and Turkey will have joined the EU (along with Romania and Bulgaria, who will be joining in 2007). As I've said on my userpage, no one knows where I live, so I won't be telling you ;-) I will tell you though, that I am half Greek and half British. --Latinus (talk (el:)) 22:19, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] From Bomac

Hello, HolyRomanEmperor!

Ofcourse it's not true that we Macedonians are serbinized Bulgarians. We are Macedonians, nor Bulgarians, nor Serbs, nor anything else. The Bulgarian theory is a very without-logic one, namely they claim that we Macedonians are torned apart from the Bulgarians "thanks to" Serbs and especially Marshal Tito. Please! And what about the Macedonians in Pirin Macedonia or Aegean Macedonia? They were not under a Serbian influence, haven't they? This is a clear Bulgarian propaganda. You should know about the repressions and tortures Bulgarians do to the Macedonian minority in Pirin Macedonia, due to calling themselves Macedonians.

И свакако да могу (али по мало) разберити Српскохрватски језик! Он је врло сличан са македонским. Поздрав или Во-здра! :-) --Bomac 13:03, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

No. There aren't pro-Bulgarian elements in Macedonia. Bulgarians say like that because, simply, they really want to be like that. Yes, in the past, there was a pro-Bulgarian organisation who came from Bulgaria (it was called "Radko", I think) in Macedonia and made a scandal with statements in Skopje, in which they say (typicall) that Macedonians are Bulgarians. Pardon me, but they've made fools of themselves. No-one did react on that statement and didn't had consequences. Other example (I'd say also with a propaganda behind it), also hapenned long time ago, is the massive import of Bulgarian newspapers in Macedonia. No-one bought them (which was the main reason they dissapeared for a quick time) caus' of the inclarity of the Bulgarian language and, simply - the people were not interested about what is going on in Bulgaria. About Bulg. language, almost all Macedonians (including me) think that it is a very non-melodic and rough-mechanical language, which is not suitable for Macedonia. Поздрав, друже! Bomac 13:43, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Чуј пријатељу, ако се ти осећаш као Србин по националност (мада мислим да у почетку смо сви били исти -Словени), никој нема право да ти тебе казује ко си и шта си. На пример, ја сам Македонац, и не прихваћам неко да ми казује да сам Бугарин, Србин или Грк, јер ја се тако, едноставно - не осећам.

А и штом већ постоји Црногорска држава, не би требало да се она претопи у Србију или било која суседња држава, без разлике из који етноси је састављена. Морам признати да је Црна Гора једна прекрасна земља са врло лепа природа (Био сам ово лето у Бечичи, па зато :-)). То је моје мишљење.

And about the map - Yes, I've seen that map already. Actually there aren't recognised Macedonians there. It is a Serbian point of view (just like the Bulgarian or Greek), where Macedonians are Serbs. You see, Macedonia has always been a kind of a "bridge" between the neighbouring states. That's why (even today) they continue to deny the Macedonians, with different level of intensity. It very well known that Macedonia is "јабука раздора" between it's neighbours. Поздрав! Bomac 15:21, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, most of your statements are correct, but there isn't a large contigent of Bulgarians in Macedonia. Better said, there are no Bulgarians in the Republic of Macedonia. We Macedonians don't know much about Bulgarian culture or history, and vice versa. On the other hand, the Macedonians in Bulgaria are treated very badly, or I should say - they are discriminated. The reason of this is, as Bulgarians (politicians etc.) say - spreading "Macedonism", a movement and ideology which, as they say, is very good paid "by the Serbs". It's non-sense. There isn't any serbian influence. Macedonians are self declaring as "Macedonians".

I think that the Macedonian situation is not quite the same as the Montenegrin. Bomac 21:49, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Look, we (Macedonians) have been a really, really long time under foreign rule. After the liberation of the surrounding countries from Ottoman Empire, Macedonia was still a battlefield for the same countries. So, Macedonians were hoping that Nikola Pasic's statement will mean that Serbia really intends to protect Macedonians (and Macedonia) as a nation with it's national identity. That is the main reason they declared as Serbs. They could not possibly oppose that decision caus' Macedonians were (and I should say - are) repressed form all sides - Greece, Bulgaria and even Serbia.

And about the medeival period, even today we are called by some our dear neighbours (Greece for example) Slavs from Macedonia :-), because obviously, Macedonia is трн у око for everyone around it. Regards, Bomac 00:28, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hvala

Izvini što tek sada odgovaram, bio sam prilično zauzet večeras. Hvala ti za zvezdu. Pozdrav. PANONIAN (talk) 02:31, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

For being a great contributer. --Latinus (talk (el:)) 11:34, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
For being a great contributer. --Latinus (talk (el:)) 11:34, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Hey, thanks for the Barnstar. Take one yourself :-))) --Latinus (talk (el:)) 11:34, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kosovar

Zdravo! When you have a free moment, go and read our little discussion User_talk:Kosovar -- Kosovar 14:43, 7 February 2006 (UTC)


I'll have to say I don't remember, Greetings Damir Mišić 14:58, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mass Translations Needed

Hello Holy. In order to fill up some of the red links on List of Serbs, we need some mass translations to be made. If you ever find the time, be sure to stop by a do some. You can find the list here: Wikipedia:Translation_into_English#Serbian-to-English Antidote 21:39, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Srem

Mislim da je taj "Belgrade in baptized Croatia" u stvari Biograd a ne Beograd. Što se tiče kralja Tomislava, tačno je da je deo Srema pripadao njegovoj državi, ali po ovoj mapi koju su crtali Hrvati, to je bio samo zapadni Srem (jel na onoj mapi što si je ti video tu ceo Srem ili samo zapadni deo):

Inače habsburška pokrajina Kingdom of Slavonia je formalno pripadala i Hrvatskoj i Mađarskoj, a Srem je bio deo Slavonije u to vreme. PANONIAN (talk) 22:06, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lika

What you said on my page is true. However, since that explanation was necessary, we can add a "Population" section, where we can insert the "mix" sentence and your explanation from my talk page. Is that satisfactory? --Zmaj 12:12, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Banja Luka

See Historical population of Banja Luka.Some of the data accuracy was clouded due to manipulation of names that we talked about before.One could not claim that Banja Luka was Bosniak city (nor Serb or Croat for that matter) but the city itself had quoaters that were either Bosniak (Muslim), Serb (Orthodox) or Croat (Catholic).As a city it was always mixed,even in 1991.--Dado 17:13, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

It is not exactly clear who founded the city.One of the first dwellings in the city was the castle Kastel that was supposedly built by Romans in 8th century (some sources state that it was built around 3rd century).There is few or no information about the city before the Ottomans.Some records show that Croats inhabited the region in late 14th century particularly creating the establishment in Petricevac near Banja Luka but this is know only because monks were the only ones who were keeping historical records at the time.Bosniaks were certainly first who significantly developed the city in the 15th century to the point that it became a capital of Bosnian Pashaluk in late 17th century so they can be credited for significant part of founding the city.Their development took place south of and near Kastel

Most of the today's southern part of the city (Donji Seher, Gornji Seher, Hiseta, Mejdan and all 4 renamed by RS authorities) was Bosniak, up to the Crkvena creek and Kastel.Crkvena creek itself is today a bit of an ambiguous border because it was paved over in the 60's and the creek was turned into a channel.For nearly 400 years the old town center was based between Ferhadija and Arnaudija mosques and included many structures most of which were destroyed in the 1969 earthquake but the reconstruction and revitalization was started in late 1980's.Today you can still find some old foundations at the place where shops once stood alike ones in Bascarsija.

Most of the Serbs arrived in late 19th century and settled on the other side of Crkvena what is today a modern city center. This part of town was particularly developed by Austro-Hungarians at the turn of the 20th century and one could had really distinguish it in style from the old town at the time. Serbs also settled areas to the west of the city center including Laus, Paprikovac, Nova Varos.As the town modernized and expanded north into the valley after the earthquake more Serbian population was becoming part of the city including Borik, Starcevica,Budzak etc..

Today's coat of arms suggests that it is a Serbian city which is historically a notorious concoction.It is actually an alternate version of an old coat of arms abstractly depicting Kastel that had no national insignia whatsoever. It does not surprise me although that this coat of arms is in official use given many other things that took place in Banja Luka during the recent war that are still being denied or neglected among current authorities or by those who migrated into the city after it was ethnically cleansed.But that's another story.

I apologize for a long e-mail but you asked a good question.--Dado 21:08, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ?

Brale brale brale, neznam sta da ti kazem. Dje to ja mrzim hrvate?, aha! ako pricam istinu kakva takva onda mrzim hrvate, jeli tako komsiju, jeli mrzim sam sebe? Priznajem nemogu bas bosanske hrvate da "volim/(?)" zar su oni (svi znamo) Bosnjacki katolici ali nesta drugo se zovu, i meni su do glave dosli svi ovi lazovi srpski i hrvatski, dosta! I mene stvarno nije briga ako mislis da sam hrvat, srbin, bosanac ili afrikanac, ja hocu istinu da pricam neovisno o nacionalitetu. Ali ako stvarno hoces da znas oženjen sam sa bosnjakinjom, mozda zato mrzim sam sebe? Damir Mišić

Zašto još nisi glaso za Lastovo:)? Luka Jačov 16:09, 11 February 2006 (UTC)


[edit] History of Herzegovina

I personally have a lot of books on the subject. It does take me a little while to translate the information though. Unfortunately, my personal information doesn't include a lot about Trebinje or other areas of eastern Herzegovina that are largely Serb. There's also a decent amount of stuff to be found online, but it doesn't seem to be enough to make this into a great article. --Thewanderer 21:49, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] catchup

Hi there. I haven't logged into en:wiki in quite a while, so I probably missed quite a bit. Where did we left off? :)

I'm trying to connect the dots from our old talk now. The problem with Tvrtko Kotromanić's religion is quite typical - which of the Churches confirmed his coronation. I didn't actually track hercegbosna.org to be able to verify that they changed their story :) I only read what Mir Harven wrote on the talk pages over here. His story was that there were two coronations, one in Mili and one in Mileševa. I don't really know which is accurate, because I haven't actually seen someone saying that either place was definitely the coronation site - that link you pasted also says probably. Sigh.

I see that the qualification of the number of 140k refugees in .sr is fixed now. Nothing more to intervene in there?

I figure the confusion regarding the 24h block is also long gone now...

I'm not keen on archiving my Talk page, it still works as is, and it gives a nice history as well as deters most frivolous readers :)

Bio sam prije par mjeseci u Dubrovniku pa sam slikavao i uploadao neke zanimljive slike, pogledat cu sto je dalje bilo na tim talk stranicama sad.

U vezi broja izbjeglica - ne znam vise ima li smisla spominjati sva ta natezanja oko brojeva (iako nisam bas vise siguran da li pricamo o istom onom clanku kojeg se sjecam :). Prilicno sam siguran da smo ostavili negdje na jednom od tih clanaka overview: kako je ukupni broj Srba koji nedostaju od zadnjeg popisa na 380k, koji su brojevi spominjani u vezi Oluje (90-140-200-250-300?), a koliko se ljudi registriralo kao izbjeglice u Srbiji. U biti ovo je bio jedan od razloga zasto mi se "Serbs in Croatia" ili "History of Serbs in Croatia" cinio kao dobar novi clanak - na jednom mjestu bi se to napisalo i onda bi ostali clanci polinkali taj a ne da stalno negdje fali ili ima viska ili se vandalizira.

De regno Sclavorum claims that the Serbs built Dubrovnik? Cool. I have to insist on chapter and verse here, of course :o)

I would be interested in reading more about Ivan Gundulić's nationally-relevant stuff. I recall how User:Igor had once upon a time spilled his bile into that article, but there was very little actual rational discussion or corroboration. I had a sneaking suspicion that there must have been something in particular with Gundulić that made him an explicit matter of dispute.

DAI claims that Croats were in Singidunum? Cool. But again, a quote would be nice. That doesn't seem to fit in well with most of the historical maps I've seen, even those that are too optimistic. Overall the whole notion of the Croats being dominant in the whole of Slavonia, Srijem, etc in that time, and at the same time on the Adriatic coast, and at the same time that there were mostly Serbs up to Vrbas or even Una, and Ljudevit Posavski taking refuge with the Serbs in Srb, and ... at times this whole scenario just becomes too fishy.

Reading my talk page further down, I see now you also found new information about the Kotromanić dynasty, that's good :) It seems plausible that the Bosnian nomenclature at the time was first and foremost opportunistic - keeping good relations with both east and west, and profiting from that.

I'll read the article about the Serbian societies in Dubrovnik, thanks for the link. I noticed that in general the historical debates lack context in the sense that we always try to focus on the "important" stuff - meaning we go out of our way to figure out who was the protagonist of some period in some area, but this often causes us to lose sight of everything else that happened along the way.

Phew, that should be it for now. :) --Joy [shallot] 01:26, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

A-haa, znači oba su se dogodila sigurno? Jedno je bilo u zapadnom a drugo u istočnom stilu, čisto da obje nomenklature dobiju svaka svoj domjenak? :)

Hm, nisam skoro nikada ni gledao sr: stranicu "Hrvatska", a mislim da s obzirom na veličinu watchliste na en: nisam spreman uhvatiti se u koštac s još jednim takvim... vrelom zanimljivosti :)

(U vezi idola Tomislava) Zanimljivo! (Zašto se koncentrirao baš na obalu?)

Odlično da ste napravili te stranice. Ovo za kontroverznost nema veze, to se može i treba riješiti u hodu, bitno da je tema na mjestu. Editirao sam malo onu prvu, budem još, sve pet. Nisam još pregledao Talk stranicu i history, ali sigurno hoću ako mi vrijeme dopusti. U vezi Boškovića vidim sad da ima i čudnovato imenovani članak House of Boshko :) ali da, to jest corner case oko kojega se očekivano lome koplja. Općenito na toj stranici vrijedi izdvojiti stare Dubrovčane kao ljude koji se mahom baš ne uklapaju u neke nacionalne profile (i predrasude), ali su sigurno bitni za cijelu sintagmu, ideju, Srba u Hrvatskoj, a ujedno i bitni za povijest Hrvatske općenito, neovisno o tome kakvo netko mišljenje zastupao o tome.

Nisam siguran da je onaj transkript DAIja na wikisourceu precizan u toj rečenici, jer je lako moguće da se misli na Biograd na Moru. Preletio sam sad preko članka o Ljudevitu Posavskom, vidim izložena je i ona kontroverzna priča, da. To me u tom trenutku podsjetilo i na petero braće i dvije sestre, pa sam i to uvrstio u priču :)

Nisam mislio nužno na Gundulićevu nacionalnost direktno vezanu za taj mit, nego općenito na to kako se Dubrovnik-style nacionalna nejasnost odražavala na njegovom primjeru, ako jest.

Imat ću na umu sve ove BiH-related članke, hvala na linkovima, ali dok dođem do toga možda će proći tjedni i mjeseci, toliko toga ima :)

Onaj video-clip site je prilično smiješan, iako se vidi da reporteri baš ciljaju na neuke seljake, a oni su nerijetko više jadni nego smiješni.

Ajme, još linkova za pročitati. Nikad kraja :) --Joy [shallot] 16:52, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lastovo

Zašto ne glasaš za FAC Lastovo dok još imaš vremena. Gusto je. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Lastovo Luka Jačov 16:38, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Samo da te ispravim; 1925 Aleksandar nije bio regent več kralj te kipovi nisu građeni od Pule do Ulcinja več od Sušaka:). Kad čemo na IRC:)? Luka Jačov 17:06, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Kuc-kuc. Luka Jačov 21:51, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Jesi za IRC sade? Luka Jačov 18:48, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

To je vjerovatno Uvouvo. Al čudi me da je odustao od rasprave:-/. Luka Jačov 21:12, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

Dođi na IRC pa ču ti reč. mislim puno je jednostavnije....-) Luka Jačov 00:27, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Kuc-kuc. Luka Jačov 00:49, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Kuc-kuc. Luka Jačov 16:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Nemoj raditi kompromise na uštrb istine! ;-). Luka Jačov 22:11, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Ajd dođi večeras na IRC. Čujemo se! Ja ču od sade bit na IRC-u. Luka Jačov 21:40, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstar

Thank you for the barnstar. I'm busy these days so I don't have much time for wikipedia. Live Forever 22:21, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re:

No problem. Don't hurry with the translations at all, just do any you can when you find time. I will add the image shortly. Antidote 20:38, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re:One more thing

I am also looking forward to discussions with you in order to improve articles. I always argue against content, not persons. Still, when I notice what I perceive as mistakes, I will check other contributions of that person to see whether the mistakes appear elsewhere, but it's nothing personal, really. I admire your extensive knowledge of history and hope we can both learn from each other. --Zmaj 07:38, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] IRC

Pa de si??Šta se ne javljaš?:-). Luka Jačov 22:45, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Kuc-kuc, što me ignoriraš:(? Luka Jačov 23:01, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Kuc-kuc! Luka Jačov 01:14, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Pa kade čemo onda na IRC? Luka Jačov 15:52, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Andrić

Will you please revert the article, I'm near 3RR limit. --Dijxtra 15:32, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rudjer

Ako hoces i ako mi nekako das e-mail, mogu da ti posaljem skenove iz knjiga koje detaljno obradjuju Rudjerovo poreklo. Nikola 19:57, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mehmed Paša Sokolović

I couldn't find any good referance for you. But i have an Ottoman Historian friend when i see her online i will ask her for referances. These are my links, a book by Radovan SAMARCIC he said Bosnian and one more link [4] here it is Serbian. I will ask for real referances to my friend. Cheers--Ugur Basak 22:54, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

Nisam vidio source za Milesevu, sorry. Što se tiče Emira, prilično je tvrdoglav i grub, ali se sa Live-om da razgovarati. Probacu jos malo, ali sam malo kratak s vremenom ovih dana. Pozdrav, Duja 08:25, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Thanks

No problem. Tell me, are you sure that the historian I mentioned actually said what I attributed to him? I'll take a look at the other article - BTW you should archive your talk page; it's really long. --Latinus 21:42, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I've tried something with it - I don't know if it's any good or if anyone'll think it's any good :-/ BTW you told you you are Croatian, but I've seen you described elsewhere as a Serbian nationalist - how's that? --Latinus 22:58, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I did a bad thing - could you keep an eye on Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RR#User:Emir Arven. --Latinus 17:50, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nemoj vise

Ni ti ni Luka.Nisam vama nista uradio da bih to zasluzio od vas.--VKokielov 07:27, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Ja da dodem tebi na talk-page i napisem "HE HE HE HE", a onda moj decko da dode i napise "Vidis a i on se smije."Kako se to osjeca?Kako se to shvata?--VKokielov 17:03, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

O čemu ti to pričaš?! Luka Jačov 20:36, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Editiranje tuđih stranica nije vandalizam zato ih i svako može editirati,a Vadimovu stranicu ja uopče nijesam dirao. Luka Jačov 21:16, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mehmed paša

"Е, да ли можеш помоћи на чланку о Мехмед паши Соколовићу? Много смо се упетљали ту, а колико год ја извора ставим - ништа не значи"

Pa kakva ti konkretno pomoć treba? Ne vidim da je u toku neki "revert war" oko članka o Mehmed paši. Ako me pitaš za izvore, nemam o njemu ništa naročito detaljno (bar koliko ja znam). U stvari, možda nešto i imam, ali pošto imam dosta istorijskih knjiga, to prvo treba negde pronaći. Ako nađem nešto, mogu ti javiti. Koji ti konkretno podatak iz njegove biografije treba? PANONIAN (talk) 17:00, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Holy,

Hvala za povjerenje. Pokusat cu da napisem npov clanak cim stignem. Live Forever 17:24, 26 February 2006 (UTC)


Bi eventualno, al' bojim se da nemam dosta "edits". Live Forever 17:56, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

E jebi ga, pa ja sam gledao ovo:

a ti misliš na ovo:

Mislim da je najveći problem ovde što postoje dva članka, a što se tiče konkretnog spora, Emira znam odavno i jedini način da se nosiš sa njim je da budeš bezobrazniji i uporniji od njega. Ja nemam vremena i živaca da se sporim sa njim oko tog članka, jer imam trenutno dovoljno problema oko ovih članaka koje nadgledam. PANONIAN (talk) 18:27, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Pa ako nema druge pomoći traži arbitražu. Nek Emir proba da dokaže da je paša bio Bošnjanin. :) PANONIAN (talk) 22:51, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Националност

Види, то да смо сви Словени је факт. Меѓутим, исто така је факт да негде у доба просветителства почело је одредено диференцирање Словена (углавно по регионима) и њихови локални говори (језици). Така, у Србији тог периода био је Доситеј Обрадовиќ, Македонији - Јоаким Крчовски, Кирил Пејчиновиќ, у Бугарској - Паисиј Хилендарски (где је доста изразена диференцијација) итд. Али ипак, у суштини ми останујемо Словени. Врло је лошо што си денес ми, Словенске нације, у одреѓени ствари, морамо да признајемо - одмагамо и наштетујемо један на друг. Bomac 14:21, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Въпрос

Здравей! Казваш ми нещо - какво e мнението на повечето хора в Сърбия за Гърция? --Latinus 15:53, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes I was, do tell me... --Latinus 18:38, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Emir

Yeah, I've had a small dispute with him in the past, on the Pan-Turkism page. I hope you guys can work it out, but do you suggest that I revert his edits until then? Should we protect the page? --Khoikhoi 23:41, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Yeah me too. I hope he approves of the new version. --Khoikhoi 23:45, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vojvodina, Montenegro and Kosovo

Tell me something, I can understand why Kosovo and is autonomous, can suspect why Montenegro is autonomous (they used to be a seperate country), but why is Vojvodina autonomous? How do they differ from the rest of Serbia? --Latinus 22:43, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Сръбски език

Здрасти! Сръбски лесен език ли е? Аз мисля че може да е добра идея да уча сръбски, защото кога Хърватска, Босна и Сърбия и Черна гора ще станат държави-членки нa ЕС, ще е значителен език. Проблемата е че аз не зная нищо за сръбски. --Latinus 20:46, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mehmed-pasa

Thanks for the comment. I'll add in the information about him being second vizier, but I'm hesitant about him being beglerbeg of Rumelia because I saw that both a Bosniak and a Serb source disputed that. Live Forever 17:53, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Alright, you've convinced me. I'll add the information about Rumelia as soon as I start working on the article again. Live Forever 21:05, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mehmed Paša Sokolović

I've waited for my friend to give me a source, but she is busy nowadays and she is interested after 18th cent. Anyway she said, "he can be Serbian". But i searched it in encyclopedia, in dictionnaire larousse's Turkish editon's it says "Sokoloviç adlı Boşnak bir papazın oğluydu" "He was son of a Bosnian priest named Sokolovic". I hope this helps --Ugur Basak 15:19, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reply

Zdravo, the problem is that Macedonia is a region which spans four countries, the Republic of Macedonia, Greece, Bulgaria and Albania. Certain Macedonian users have made a portal for the Republic of Macedonia along the lines of Portal:Greece, Portal:Bulgaria etc. The problem is, that they named their portal Portal:Macedonia and this implies that it is about the whole region, while it is in fact only about the Republic, which accounts for only 40% of the whole region. I proposed to rename it to Portal:Republic of Macedonia so as to avoid the ambiguities and to present a neutral POV. Calling it Portal:Macedonia endorses their claims, which are disputed, even at UN level. All users who have voted/partipated in the debate think that it is a good idea to rename it as I suggest, but the Macedonian users disagree. It's a shame, really, because I'm not proposing to rename it to Portal:FYROM or something like that. I (and so far most Wikipedians seem to) think that my proposal is perfectly reasonable. After all, there is a Portal:People's Republic of China - the full name is sometimes needed in contested areas. --Latinus 16:54, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

That's the problem, the Macedonians don't like it. They should, I mean that country is seeking international recognition under that name (still denied) and so we give them an inch (use the aspired name) and they want a yard! --Latinus 22:18, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
I don't know - there's a consensus poll going on, the overwhelming majority having voted for Portal:Republic of Macedonia. When the poll is over, in about 8 days, the portal's location will be whatever the poll's result is. It's become pretty much impersonal now - the discussion stage is over, they don't want to listen (perhaps we are the same), so now it's up to community consensus. --Latinus 22:50, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Зоран В.

Он је сада тренутачно пуштен из затвор.

Да, тачно је то да свештеници не треба идити у затвор, али свештеници који имају "дебеле" финансиске малверзације иза себе (користење црквене пари за купујење свој ауто и сличне такви ствари) - па мислим да је у реду онда.

У Македонији, односно из МПЦ (као што и можда знаш) "Јован" (т.е. Зоран Вранишковски) није признат као "Охридски архијепископ", као што то ради СПЦ.

Знаш, ја уклучујем овај случај са Зораном у оно шта сам претходно рекао - ми, Словенске нације, данас си одмагамо врло више отколку си помагамо. Ја сам цвсто убеден да иза целу ову работу стоји ГПЦ (Грчка Православна Црква), и јединствени проблем је грчки проблем са име "Македонија". Инаку, МПЦ се је изјаснила да уколико Зоран В. побара прошка, она ќе му бити дадена. Bomac 09:06, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Како и да је, он тоа изражава на многу чудан и тајинствени начин. Сепак, ако човек са финансиски малверзацијама обедини сав православни свет (или неки негов дел), тешко сви нама! :-) Bomac 11:32, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

(:-D Bomac 11:54, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Republic of Macedonia in the Article Improvement Drive

Hey Imperator, I recently nominated the Republic of Macedonia article as a candidate for the Article Improvement Drive. The drive is a great way to get articles up to Featured Article Status. I hope you will take the time to visit the AID and vote for Republic of Macedonia! Below is the comment I wrote when I nominated the article. --Caponer 03:50, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

"The Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia makes an excellent candidate for the Article Improvement Drive because it is very close to reaching featured article status in both content and layout. I feel as if we should always be focusing on articles that only require minor adjustments and additions in the AID instead of those that need complete and total reworking, and this is one that will only require a week to make the small adjustments required. Macedonia deserves a spotlight since it is poised to become a member state of the European Union and is a state that we will be hearing much more about in the news in the years to come. Its location adjacent to Albania and Kosovo will also make it a player in the upcoming debate over Kosovo's independence movement. I just feel it will be a fabulous choice and I hope you will think so, too. --Caponer 17:40, 2 March 2006 (UTC)"

[edit] Sorry

Hey, I'd love to, but I'm really busy right now with Iranian-related articles. There's a big dispute going on with them right now. Have you tried WP:RFM? --Khoikhoi 18:41, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps Latinus could do something about it. --Khoikhoi 18:43, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Serbs Articles

Hi Holy. Just reminding you that List of Serbs will almost be complete with it's academic and artists sections if we get the articles translated for the "Scientists and Inventors". Afterwards, we can go through the politicians, militarymen, and entrepeneurs, and the list will be all stubbed completely. Not to rush you; just a reminder. I will help with Bosnian Serbs, but I must know exactly how you want to article to be made. After all this, I was thinking of perhaps moving on an stubbing List of Croats. Antidote

[edit] Отговарям

Аз съм в Англия :-) --Latinus 12:08, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tvrtkova tabla

Vidim da si prepravio tablu o Tvrtku. Ali. ako se ne varam, Tvrtko nije vladao Srbijom. On je uzeo 1390 titulu, Kralj Raške, Bosne, Dalmacije, Hrvatske i Primorja (opća encikopedija jugoslavije-Leksikografski zavod), ali je vladao malim dijelom na istoku. Zapravo, vladao je većim dijelom u današnjoj hrvatskoj negu današnjoj srbiji i crnoj gori. Ili se varam. pa vidi kartu. Po toj logici, možemo ga ubrojiti i u hrvatske kraljeve. Od je vladao kraljevevinom Bosnom, koja je zauzela i dijelove na zapadu i istoku. i to je to. Jednostavno, cijelovita Srbija je prestala da postojiu to vrijeme, nije bila cjelovita, pa je imala više lokalnih vladara. Mislim da ga treba staviti samo kao vladara Bosne. bok! Boris Živ

[edit] Careful.

HRE, please be careful when dealing with Emir Arven. Since it's not fair to block only one participant in an argument, you're both blocked for 24 hours.

You're both very intelligent and erudite; I'd hate for the project to lose either of you.

Try to write sentences that acknowledge the two (or more) sides of the dispute. DS 21:54, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] re: Sokollo

Hi; the links heading Sırp Vatanseveri Osmanlı Veziri means Serbian patriot Ottoman Vizier the text is a abstract of a book as you can see written by Radovan Samarçiç. It's about, Sokollo's hidden Serbian patriotism. Second one: Kökeni Bosnalı bir Sırp olan Sokollu Mehmet Paşa means Sokollu Mehmet Paşa's origins are a Bosnian Serb. Third one: Sırp asıllı Sadrazam Sokollu Mehmet Paşa’nın önünden geçip. means Serbian originedgrand vizierSokollu Mehmet Paşa's "önünden geçip" I can't translate önünden geçip part because sentence is not complete, it can have different meanings. Last one: sokolovic kasabasından alınma bir devsirme. aslen sırp olması ve olduren insanın bosnak olması ilginctir means He is a devshirmeh taken from Sokolovic town. Despite his Serbian origin and to be killed by a Bosnian (is interesting)

I guess you found last one from sourtimes.org. It's not well controlled site, any user (not everyone can be a user) write anything even feelings about anyone. Not %100 accurate and also sentences are not in good form. So translation also meanings are difficult to understand. Also i've found one more thing on that site, again not cited. hırvatlığı veya sırplığı tartışmalıdır. means his Croatian and Serbian origins are controversial

in this site he is mentioned as Croatian. Hirvat kökenli Sokullu Mehmet Pasa.

Hir origins is really controversial --Ugur Basak 22:57, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Boşnak and Bosnalı

About Boşnak and Bosnalı. In Turkish we use both words for every nation. Türk and Türkiyeli etc. Boşnak means Bosnian people (mostly for ethnically) and Bosnalı has two meanings; one who is living in Bosnia(Bosnian citizen) and other Bosnian people.--Ugur Basak 22:37, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Sokoloviç adlı Boşnak bir papazın oğluydu in this text writer uses Boşnak, as explanied above. Sentence is about Bosnian ethnicity--Ugur Basak 23:02, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
Actually that night i try to make a quick response, and it's somehow misunderstood i guess. I actually don't know much, but searched on Turkish encyclopedias. I mean with both are used for all nations. For example if we say Alman (German) it is mostly ethnically German, but if we say Almanyalı it can mean both ethnic German or German citizen. I'll go and add some info to discussion. Cheers--Ugur Basak 22:38, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Montengrin Independence

Hi Holy Roman Emperor. How are you? I just wanted to ask you whether you think Montengro should be independent or not. Also, I would like to ask you if you would like to make a vote whether the page, Montenegrin independence referendum, 2006, should be a "Collaboration of the Week"in Wikipedia. To vote, click here CrnaGora | Talk 2:45, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

Hey, I am really curious (sorry). What does the Montenegrin constitution say? (Unlike Latinus, I cannot read any Slavic language). Please translate just what was so important. I am asking for personal reasons because I am about to start business with Serbia (if it doesn't do you trouble). Thanks. :-) NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 20:11, 18 March 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the translation. The way it was presented in your talk with Latinus, I misinterpreted and thought there were separatistic or nationalistic articles in the constitution. NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 10:22, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] language

Question: Is there still a "hrvatosrpski" or "srpskohrvatski" language? Ilir pz 11:25, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

No - now there are a "srpski", a "hrvatski", a "bosanki" and a "crnagorski". --Latinus 11:29, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
Uhm, not really - Serbo-Croatian still exists and some people still use it. The Montenegrin language on the other hand, isn't recognized/standardized as an independent language - but it has the shapes of it. --HolyRomanEmperor 20:52, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
I was just curious. As I know that now they are separate countries, and I thought they decided to not call it anymore a common language. I know some Croatians were sensitive when I would ask them. Ilir pz 15:48, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
and another thing. No need to write provocative questions in my talk page, as I will not answer to them. Enjoy! Ilir pz 15:51, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mehmed paša

To što tamo piše da je bio Bošnjak, ne znači da nije bio i Srbin, jer je u to vreme Bošnjak značilo "čovek iz Bosne". Zašto ne napišete kao kompromis oba: da je bio Srbin i Bošnjak (Srbin iz Bosne)? PANONIAN (talk) 22:11, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Tvrtko.jpg

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[edit] Bogomils

The bogmils in bosnia weren't ethnic bulgarians who lived there. The bogomil religion came to bosnia along with a few priests from bulgaria (not necessary bulgarian ethnicity). Bogomil religion comes rather more from the ancient lands of thracia and Illyria. The religion was quickly absorbed by the bosnians who allready had a version of christianity similar to the bogomil, in their bosnian church. The bogomil religion was as I said absorbed by bosnians who developed it and the religion had its largest expansion in Bosnia. Furthermore was the bogomil view of christianity very similar to the view muslims have of christianity, that is not beliving in trinity and that jesus is not the son of God. Therefore bogomil bosnians had an easy time converting to Islam, partly because it resembled their already present religion but also because the bogomil bosnians found as well protection within Islam from the pope, serbs and croats. ethnic Serbs and croats did never live in bosnia uptil now. The so called "bosnian croats" are simply catholic bosniaks/bosnians and the "bosnians serbs" are predominantly ortodox bosniaks/bosnians who cahanged their nationality when it benefited them. Bosniaks do not come from asia, they are exclusivly illyrian tribes assimilated by slavs. Therefore I call them slavic speaking Illyrians. Damir Mišić 20:20, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Well emperor don't get me wrong I am not denying anyone's ethnicity, if bosnian catholics wish to call themselves croats, then it is there every right to do so and I respect them as croats. The same goes for bosnian orthodoxs. But to view croats and serbs as illyrians is quite an untrue thing for me to do, I have always stated that dalmatia croats ("black croats") are descendants of asian tribes dwelling from Iran, whereas pannonia croats ("white croats") are predominantly of pure slavic ancestory. As for the serbs, they are closely related to dalmatia croats since the serbs also are from Iranian lands. Finally the bosnians are netiher of that, they are descendants of illyrian tribes from the land of "bosona" (bosnia) (illyrian) that is also the explanation why only bosnians and albanians (illyrians) converted to Islam, furthermore you should now that bogomil religion was founded in bulgarian ruled lands by ancient indoeuropean peoples (thracia/illyria) who opposed the bulgarian rule, that is why the ancient bosnians also accepted this religion because they dwell from the same origin. Also the cathars accepted a version of bogomil religion, these cathars are descendants of celts who used to live in illyrian lands and had a similiar way of living and thinking. Finally I myself think that the bosniaks resemble albanians much more than croats or serbs in apparence and to some extent behaviour as well. Damir Mišić

[edit] Possible Future Administrator

I would like to nominate you to become an administator. If you say yes, I will nominate you and I'm looking forward to seeing you become an adminstrator. Please disregard this nomination if you are already an English Wikipedia administrator. CrnaGora | Talk 00:59, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] wpfy

Eh, da, na tragu onoga sto si rekao, nas nekoliko je formiralo WP:FY kako bismo poradili na tom problemu, na problemu da se premalo pise o nasim narodima. Pa, pogledaj taj projek, mozda ti se dopadne :-) --Dijxtra 20:23, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] re: Thank you for your assistence

Thank you. But I will be honest with you - you helped - but the disputes will continue. But you helped, and that's what matters. Anyway, it seems that it's nearing it's end anyway, and we'll have another happy wiki featured article. :) --HolyRomanEmperor 21:04, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

I hope there wouldn't be any disputes on any article but it's impossible. Anyway if you think i've helped at least a bit i would be happy. Cheers --Ugur Basak 21:16, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Encyclopedia Britannica,

eleventh edition (year: 1910 (!)), Volume IV, page 281,

entry "Bosnia and Herzegovina", subentry (#10) Population and National Characteristics (quote:)

In 1895 the population, which tends to increase slowly... numbered 1,568,092. The alien element is small, consisting chiefly of Austro-Hungarians, gipsies, Italians and Jews. Spanish is a common language of the Jews, whose ancestors fled hither, during the 16th century, to escape the Inquisition.

The natives are officialy described as Bosniaks, but classify themselves according to religion. Thus the Roman Catholics PREFER the name of CROATS, Hrvats or Latins; the Orthodox, of SERBS; THE MOSLEMS, OF TURKS.

All alike belong to the Serbo-Croatian branch of the Slavonic race; and all speak a language almost identical to Serbian, though written by the Roman Catholics in Latin instead of Cyrillic letters.

TO AVOID OFFENDING EITHER "SERBS" OR "CROATS," IT IS OFFICIALLY DESIGNATED "BOSNITCH." ... The Bosnians or Bosniaks resemble their Serbian kindfolk in both appearance and character. They have the same love for poetry, music and romance; the same *intense* pride in their race and history; many of the same superstitions and customs. The Christians retain the Serbian costume, modified in detail, as the occasional use of the turban or fez. The "Turkish" women have in some districts abandoned the veil; but in others they even cover the eyes when they leave home. (end quote)

[edit] The Catholic Encyclopedia, 1917

Bosnia and Herzegovina Population "Excluding some 30,000 Albanians living in the south-east, the Jews who emigrated in earlier times from Spain, a few Osmanli Turks, the merchants, officials. and Austrian troops, the rest of the population (about 98 per cent) belong to the southern Slavonic people, the Serbs. Although one in race, the people form in religious beliefs three sharply separated divisions: the Mohammedans, about 550,000 persons (35 per cent), Greek Schismatics, about 674,000 persons (43 per cent), and Catholics, about 334,000 persons (21.3 per cent). The last mentioned are chiefly peasants."

As we see above there are only serbs and croats in Bosnia al other thing is propaganda. My own Surname is BOSNJAK and that is a common Serbian AND croatian Surname. My surname coms from he village Bosnia wich is in near KAKANJ in bosnia. We have one church and a lot of houses there it is on a mountain and the village is around 900 years old probobly more but on the cementry you can se alla serbs in my family who was living there in the past. and it is a Serbian village and Bosnjak is just a surename not a peoples kind that people think it is today. Bosnjaks re Serbs and Croats. There are also a lot of villages in Croatia where people is named by their village Bosnjak beacuse their villages name is Bosnia.

I ask you people on this page to add that Bosnjak also is a Serbian and Croatian Surname that has been used much longer that the new people group of "Bosnjak" wich is translated in english Bosniak and Bosnjak in Serbian/Croatian. I do not want to change much on this page beacuse i think you would think ive done wrong but you see there are a lot of Bosnjaks that are serbs or croats

Here is the crotian player Ivan Bosnjak [[5]]

http://www.parlament.sr.gov.yu/content/lat/sastav/poslanici_detalji.asp?id=790A serbian who works for the parlament in serbia

http://www.studiacroatica.com/jero/luki2.htm People who helped croats druing 1945 dr. Bošnjak § 8. Redovitim članovima mogu biti samo Hrvati. (only be croats can be members)

http://www.serbianunity.net/culture/art/Olgin/Kriticari/0490.htmanother serb with surname Bosnjak

http://www.zeljko-bosnjak.net/ a croat with that surname

http://www.diskografija.com/sastav/andrea-bosnjak.htm another croatian artist

http://www.im.ns.ac.yu/faculty/bosnjaki/ another serb

http://www.hdzbih.org/index.php?modul=predsjednistvo Rade Bošnjak, Vice president of the Nationalist party in Bosnia the Croatian party BH HDZ

http://vinkovci.gkvk.hr/Grad/poglavarstvo/vijece.html Memebr in croatian nationalist party in croatia HDZ Milan Bošnjak (HDZ)

As we all can see the most of people that has the surname Bosnjak is serbian and Croatian! i want this to be public and not people lying because I am a serb and Croat with that surname and i won give to anyone to push dpwn my surname and call it something else that it isnt!! Im right now writing a book in serbian that is about this very common serbian croatian surname and that show that there is no people who are bosnjak that that is just a surname and it will be in English later and then i will make it public and show everyone about the lies that are wrote here and everywhere else. I just dont know if you have a strong Bosnian MUSLIM lobby here but i just want to make a point and that is that BOSNJAK is a surname more then a nation because the bosnjak surname is older than the nation which is counted to be around 10 years old.

I added this because i saw you are a active member of wikipedia and i think that the things that are on on subject bosnjak need to be changed beacuse they are lies, looak my things down here.

Wow, there! What actually do you want me to do? --HolyRomanEmperor 16:27, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Id like if you have time to try to find out who Bosnjaks really are,as i know from my self it is a serbian and croatian surname because i know my roots and my familihistory. But i need to show people that there actually is not a nation named Bosnjak, it is just like macedonia they are not macedonians they are bulgarians because the real macedonians are greeks.

[edit] Reply

I'm having trouble understanding the relations between the various regions of the state union of Serbia and Montenegro. My question essentially is whether Montenegro is part of Serbia or united with, but seperate from Serbia? --Latinus 16:40, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

BTW you should archive your talk page - it's massive. --Latinus 16:41, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RfA

Just a word of advicie, challenging all opposers in an RfA rarely works out well... based on past RfAs. Anyway, the underlying problem is your lack of project (Wikipedia:) namespace edits.I've crossed out the thing about the block, I tried to find more clarficiation about it before posting, but I didn't see anything. --W.marsh 16:57, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Ah, so you want to be an administrator. Usually, some Wikipedia namespace (project, specifically at WP:ANI) edits are required, but these things usually work on a case-by-case basis. If you've been brilliant elsewhere, you still may succeed. Ако искаш да научаваш още информация, четай Wikipedia:Guide to requests for adminship. Всичко че ще нуждаш е там. --Latinus 17:03, 17 March 2006 (UTC)
BTW do you think it's a good idea for Montenegro to leave the union? --Latinus 17:07, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

See here and here. I don't know - it's absurd to think that I am a Serb nationalist. I'd bet it was Emir Arven - aganst whom have we both edit warred. That was only two articles - when I was edit warring with Duja elsewhere, that doesn't count...--Latinus 18:35, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Holy, мисля че може би е добра идея да оттеглиш твоето назначение. Не мисля че ще е благополучено. --Latinus 21:59, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Don't worry about it. The third one is usually the lucky one. There are certain admins who got promoted after their fourth. User:Moe Epsilon has had 4 failed nominations (I nominated him once) - it's a shame, because users who are good enough don't get promoted over trivial things like edit summaries or project edits :-/ --Latinus 22:43, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

A Sysop is another name for an administrator - they are the same thing. Tell me, now that Milošević has died, what is the general feeling about it in Serbia? Are they happy, sad to lose a "national hero" or no one really knows or cares about it? --Latinus 23:02, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

What about Mladić? Does the govenment have any idea where he is or do the have no idea, The EU has said that failure to hand him over for trial could rock the boat of Serbian ascention talks. BTW you really should archive your talk - it's really long and takes ages to load. --Latinus 23:21, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your message

Hi Holy, and thanks for your message.

No problem with anything, WWIII is just a quip re the level of passion displayed in Serbo-Croat-Bosnian arguments over exclusive ownership of things, which I find slightly non-sensical given their overwhealming similarity, their shared history, the difficulty I have with such crude approach to their origin (and what it had often led to).

I think that given the complexity of the region, commonalities are so significant that they warrant more detachment from the perspectives developed over the last 150 (or even the last 10 years) -- and Bosnia and Bosnians are always a good example of that. I sometimes have to laugh at loads of positivist crap that people come up with, eg Katarina Kosaca was a Croat since she converted to Catholicism and died a Catholic, or all Bosnians are really Serbs or Croats, though some of them have not thought of themselves as such for good few centuries or simply don't think it relevent to their current identity, or Petar Petrovic Njegos was a genocidal thug because he wrote Gorski vijenac, or, or, or ... It's like everyone is terribly offended if all that is good and worth mentioning cannot be described as belonging to them exclusively and in no uncertain terms.

Often, historical figures we would like to see as 'ours' or 'theirs' in the context of our contemporary identity simply didn't -- and couldn't have -- thought of themselves in such terms in the context of circumstances they lived in (thus my example of Caesar and Queen Teuta - who are undoubtedly part of Italian and Croatian herritage respectively, but cannot really be described as "Italian" and "Croatian" with a straight face). But that's what positivism is about -- and Serbs, Croats and Bosnians respectively are strong supporters of this very unsound methodology. These accounts simply don't take into account the context of time and space that certain historical figures have occupied.

That's why my preference is to always examine things from the political and cultural perspective of the time one writes about. As for problems with sources, the easiest way is to say 'it is claimed', followed by 'other sources claim', especially when it comes to strongly contested interpretations. History is not really an exact science, so it pays to establish a bit of distance from what we would like it to have been where possible -- and this is a general comment not aimed at you personally, but at all of us from the Balkans who would like to make things very clear when a simple genetic analysis would challenge the majority of our 'most certain' certainties, :-).Keep your passion. Cheers. Fomafomich 06:56, 18 March 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Serbophobia

Your opinion would be appreciated here regarding the non-deletion of the article Serbophobia. Thanks, Asterion 20:42, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Request for admin

Hi HolyRomanEmperor. Too bad the request for adminship didn't work out too good. Just a question, do you think that i'm ready to become admin? please reply on my talk page. Thank you. Oh and I forgot, I fixed the thing with Zeta. I renamed it Independent Principality of Zeta. Crna tec Gora 22:23, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] No

I'm not annoyed - I have just been very busy lately. --Latinus 19:11, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] House of Boshko

I think that it should be moved to Bošković and rewritten based on Family history section of Rudjer Boskovic article. Nikola 22:02, 26 March 2006 (UTC)


[edit] RE: I'm Glad

The whole conflict was really out of my character really, so thanks for making an effort to make me realize the wrongness of the whole affair...Also, I've noticed your contributions on South Slavic history and I was very impressed...Keep up the good work!!! Pozz, --Bora Nesic 22:54, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] your articles

Hej! I know this is a late respons (I've been finishing my studies, so had to concentrate on that) but I finally got the chance to read the articles you sent links for (3 months ago!;) :Duklja, Zeta (state), Jovan Vladimir, Stefan Voislav, Mihailo Voislav, Lika and somewhat also Pagania, Travunia, Zahumlje and Skadar, and they are really nice! You did a very good job. Of course I am no historian, but articles are very well written and easy to follow without any kind of partisanship.. when you get something new, send links this way, it's nice to read about such stuff!

Svetlana Miljkovic 23:54, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] COTW Project

You voted for History of the World Wide Web, this week's Collaboration of the week.Please come and help it become a featured-standard article.PDXblazers 19:33, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Montenegro

I'll get back to you now -- In my opinion, these regional independence movements are running wild everywhere now. There are the seemingly justifiable ones like Quebec and the weird ones like Scania. I suspect that the May referendum will not result in independence - a Montenegrin state would be much weaker outside of the Union and would probably result in economic crisis; they're not that well off now, are they? Independence would probably make it harder for them to join the EU and as most people there feel like Serbs (and their constitution affirms it), it just proves that any talk of independence is just a minority view. We'll see what happens though... who knows, maybe they will secede. Although, I do think that Kosovo is more in need of it. --Latinus 18:22, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pro-Croat Nazi propaganda corrected--role of Roman Catholic church in genocide made clear

The Bleiburg massacre occurred near to the end of World War II, during May 1945. It is named after the village of Bleiburg on the Austrian-Slovenian border, near where the massacre began.

It involved mass murder of Croatian soldiers and civilians who were fleeing from the defeated Independent State of Croatia, an associate of Nazi Germany.

Although a still undefined number of Croatian soldiers died during a series of battles and skirmishes, it is generally accepted that the vast portion of violent deaths were the result of executions that lasted at least two weeks after the cessation of hostilities. The victims were Croatian soldiers and civilians, executed without trial as an act of vengeance for the crimes committed by the Ustaše regime in Croatian-controlled territories during World War II — frequently in overtly gruesome manner (mass rape and subsequent killing by stoning of Catholic Croat whores and beheading Croatian disarmed soldiers, albeit too few to make a real difference.

Emigration by Croatian Nazis to Canada and Australia with the assistance of the Roman Catholic church unfortunately could not be stopped.

[edit] Template

This user is a member of WikiProject Croatia.




Hey, I made a template for everyone who's a part of this project! Put it on your user page, maybe more people will join when they see how cool it would look on their page!!! --M.B. 01:07, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yes

Edwy (talk) 12:46, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

I got tired of the old one - I thought you were going to change yours. Edwy (talk) 13:01, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mljet

You don't find the following contradictory?

"The island became a part of the unified Serbian Lands under Stefan Nemanja in 1166-1168. In 1222, the Serb King Stefan II the First-crowned of Nemanja gifted his lands and monasteries and church on Krkar to the Benedictine Order of Mljet. After serving as the last Serbian maritime bastion, Serbian Emperor Stefan Uroš gifted the island to the Republic of Dubrovnik in 1357.

The Benedictines renounced their rule over the island in 1345, keeping only a third of the land. The island got a statute and a municipality in Babino Polje. It was formally annexed by the Republic of Dubrovnik in 1410. According to the Contract with the Benedictines, the municipality had to pay 300 perpers each year."

Basically you're saying it was administered by both the Benedictines and the Serb kings at once, and then given as a gift to Dubrovnik, but somehow annexed by Dubrovnik 50 year later? It makes absolutely no sense. And besides, it's highly unlikely, that it could have been ruled by Benedictines and Serbs at the same time, especially if one keeps in mind the that in the middle ages, the Church exercised sovereignty of the Pope over all Church lands. There might have been an agreement of suzerainty, like with Dubrovnik. In any case, you'll have to provide reputable sources before I can allow it to be included in the article. --Dr.Gonzo 15:13, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

While it's certainly possible they were a fief of Serbian kings, I do find it unlikely. Why would Church lands be fiefs to any earth sovereign? I would think their loyalty would be exclusively to the Pope... I'll check out those sources as soon as you provide them so we can sort this out. Peace. --Dr.Gonzo 15:31, 3 April 2006 (UTC)


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[edit] eto me

Zdravo da si HRE :) Nisam jos odgovarao na zadnji niz komentara jer me je prosli put kad sam se vratio bilo lagano odbilo sve to skupa. Ovaj put idem malim koracicima :)

Ispravi to sto ti se cini da je krivo. Ovako napamet ja bih rekao da Neretvu smatraju dijelom Crvene vjerojatno zato sto oni isprva nisu bili dijelom one glavne, Bijele, pa onda valjda kud drugo nego u Crvenu :)

(Kako to da pozdravljas sa "bog"? Ne bojis se da ce te negdje neki ratoborni sunarodnjak prozvati kao izdajicu? :)) --Joy [shallot] 20:11, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Cuj, mislim da to treba sve skupa spomenuti jer je stvarno besmisleno imati nekoliko paralelnih "linija" kroz povijest ovisno o tome koji semi-random set referenci odaberes. Tek kad se koreliraju svi dostupni izvori informacija se zapravo moze nesto zakljuciti iz svega toga (a do sad sam mahom uvijek zakljucio da se o nasoj srednjovjekovnoj povijesti ne moze *precizno* znati skoro nista).
Oprosti sto ne odgovaram na sve to, ali trebat ce mi neko vrijeme dok se prisilim prorostati kroz sve te silne threadove. Znam da nekad pausalno odgovorim na nesto ali to ne volim, puno mi je draze naci vremena procitati sve sto se moze, ali tesko je naci dovoljno vremena za napraviti stvari kako treba.
Manjak slobodnog vremena IRL je glavni razlog zasto me tako cesto nema. --Joy [shallot] 22:37, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anti-Bosniacs

That article is really funny. I sometimes wonder how people come up with such stuff. I don't know whether I should investigate or ignore it. Probably the second, but thanks for bringing it up. Miskin 21:05, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

PS: You should specify an email address (it remains hidden). It can be useful. Miskin 21:09, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Same here. I was about to post: If you mean this I am not aware of it, I have never heard of it, it was never in the news, nobody I know knows about it, and most people I asked replied "Anti-who?-what?". So, the answer is no, but you could think that if there is a supposed special kind of friendship between Greeks and Serbs (for 1000 years since the time of Basil II) then people at some point may have taken sides. You could also think that this is just propaganda, wishing to create a bad image for the Greeks. I am sorry for the less than elaborate answer, but I am very busy with the FYROM article, where strong POV pushers want to exclude the UN official name from the intro. NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 21:27, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
Hi!i've seen that u are asking if there is a strong anti-bosniak feeling in Greece. the answer is definately 'NO'. the Greeks (people,media, even government) are rather friendly towards the Serbs, without that meaning that they are anti-bosniaks...hmmm...maybe this was a confusing answer... --Hectorian 22:37, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

This is a rather interesting case. During the Kosovo War and when NATO was at war with Yugoslavia/Serbia (actually, it was Milošević they were after), Greek public opinion was firmly in favor of the Serbs. While I can understand how this could lead to an anti Bosniak outlook, I can't say I have noticed anything like that and now Greece takes a favorable view to all its neighbors (that includes FYROM and Turkey). Edwy (talk) 21:08, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Islamisation

I don't know where your question came from but to my opinion the word has a conotation of forcing people to convert to islam a doctrine that is forbiden in islam itself.The real purpose of the term is realy to provide a parallel to Christianisation, a well established and confirmed doctrine employed by Christian Europe particulary since the discovery of the new world (15th century on).--Dado 00:38, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


I don't know if I agree with you with the definitive caractherisation of all those terms (Serbs, Croatia etc) as only negative (except for maybe Ustashas).You may also have a bit skewed vision of what Chetnics did in WWII.Some 85000 Bosniak civilians (than Muslims) were killed in WWII almost all by Chetnics.

Also carather of conversions to Islam in Bosnia was a bit different than what you may be thinking.See our discussion of Demographic history of Bosnia and Herzegovina I think I discussed this issue before.Coversions certainly did not resseble the doctrinated Chritianisation methods as were employed in North and Central America over Native Americans and during Spanish Inquisition.--Dado 23:07, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Propaganda

Vidim da izmišljaš (ili iz neke vaše opskurne knjige izvlačiš) podlogu za postojanje Republike Srpske i politiku Velike Srbije uopće. Slušaj, pubertetlijo: To što se ne sijećaš rata pa bi sad reprizu je tvoj problem. Odi psihijatru pa se liječi. Meni je jedan rat bio dosta i radi tvojih istomišljenika sam 1991. kao dijete od 9 godina morao kao pas pobjeći iz svoje kuće da bi se vratio 95. Gadiš mi se i ti i tvoji istomišljenici.

Jakiša Tomić

[edit] Hi

How are you? I'm so busy with some Greek POV pushers at the Macedonian articles so I cannot even reply to the messages in my talk page. Which articles are you interested in? I would really like to minimize somethimes my contributions related to the Macedonian issue and try to contribute in the articles related to Serbia, Bosnia, Croatia... and make friends there Bitola 14:23, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I'd like to too. When you have friends, they help you vote in polls. --LionKing 14:26, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

??? (no comment)Bitola 14:45, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes and when you have enemies you are forced to change identity and start over with a new username :))) --Realek 20:38, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Arhiva

...a mogao bi i ti da arhiviras svoju :-). Pogledaj Wikipedia:How to archive a page. Duja 15:13, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] anti bosiak?

Saw your conmment to NikoSilver. I have never come across anti-Bosniak feelings in Greece. But I have seen in the 1990s trains full of Bosniak children arriving in Greece to spend their holidays with Greek families and I also saw the tears in their eyes when they were returning to Bosnia (and I am not a sentimentalist). Politis 15:51, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ne, nije on

Nije on nego ja :))) Ja sam prilicno nov korisnik. A mislim i da je korisnik Makedonac jos aktivan. Nema veze. Moj komentar se odnosio na korisnika LionKing za kojeg sam siguran da je bivsi korisnik Latinus. On je stvorio dosta neprijatelja tako da nisam mogao odoleti njegovom komentaru o prijateljima. Nadam se da se ne ljutis sto sam tako zloupotrebio tvoj discussion page :))) --Realek 21:15, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Hey

Thanks for the barnstar, first of many I hope ;) I'll certainly take a look at those articles you suggested. Thanks again and see you out there ;) --Dr.Gonzo 23:49, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] User_talk:Ilir pz

I commented (I knew there was something in my talk I had forgotten to respond to, but I didn't have time to really look in the past few days).BTW, I'm not an admin. --Rory096 04:16, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] FYROM or Republic of Macedonia

After extensive edit warring, article protection, and the statement of the extended version supporting side regarding both the name of the article, and the intro paragraph, a poll has been placed. The brief version supporting side is to keep the name of the article AND the intro paragraph free of the UN name (FYROM). Keep in mind that you can select more than one of the options (8! to the moment) that may suit you. Please participate in the vote and ask other editors you know to do so too. Increased participation can make the outcome of the vote as NPOV as possible. NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 16:27, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lastovo

Trenutno je glasanje za featured article pa daj svoje mišljenje ovdje [[6]]. Luka Jačov 19:26, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Under investigation

Please see Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy: There is no excuse for personal attacks on other contributors. Do not make them. Comment on content, not on the contributor; personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Note that you may be blocked for disruption. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Your revert war will be stopped soon. I advice you to discuss in the talk page and not just revert according to your preferences. Before it is too late, and you are banned....Ilir pz 14:15, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I will naturally, follow the wikipedia rules. However, I have no idea where I made personal attacks whatsoever. If I made, (and if I did, I did unintentionally) please, show me. When placing warning messages, it's a necessity to point our where I made a personal attack, otherwise, I am afraid it's just useless, my friend. :) --HolyRomanEmperor 17:24, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
if one looks at your messages written towards me, and whoever is not a Serbian, they cannot be defined otherwise than personal attacks. You have some issues with maybe one Albanian (maximum) and you have all this hatred? why is that, MY FRIEND???No need to attack, as I am still accumulating the offenses you make towards me, and your non-contributing work in Kosova wiki page. regards, Ilir pz 23:07, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Ah, another case of frivolous trollish warnings. Such aggressive behaviour will do you *no* favours, quite the contrary. Personally, I am of the opinion that the wikicommunity should not tolerate such severe trolling and users who contribute nothing, but their sole purpose is to POV push and edit war should immediately be permabanned. --NikX 21:50, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kusma's RfA

Hello, HolyRomanEmperor! Thank you for your two support votes (although only one was counted) in my recent successful request for adminship. If you ever have problems that you could use my assistance with or see me doing stupid things with my new buttons, don't hesitate to contact me. Happy editing, Kusma (討論) 20:05, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Greetings to you too

Hi HolyRomanEmperor. :) Great, our history is really interesting (but Balkan history rules). Any specific period of Swedish history you find interesting? Hahaha yes I know he thinks I'm a suckpuppet to everyone. But I coulden't care less about anything he says after what he has proven to be capable too. He dident even answear my reply to his talk page. I guess he realized how wrong he is. Forgive me if I ask an insolent question but where do you come from? And do you live in Germany now? No, I hope not. It would be sad if you would leave. We how not support nationalism and extremism should never give up and let that side winn. I can't keep up with the article to much anymore but I try to check it instead. There was a program about "Kosovo today" on Swedish TV two days ago, interview both Serbs and Albanians. Really tragic to see what is happening there now. Sorry but I have never made the claim that Nemanja was Croatian. I was very suprised when you said that. :) I must check the Kosovo page alot this weekend.

I posted my answear on my talk page too. I don't know the "rules" about answearing here yet. :) Take care and have a nice weekend my Slavic friend! Litany

Hahaha yes, you understand. Norway has never thanked us for "liberated" them from the Danes. haha ;) The dreams of a Swedish Empire again will never die! ;) Most of our history is pretty interesting. :)
Where are you staying in Serbia and Montenegro, what are you doing there? Which is you hometown in Croatia?
Haha so that is why you claim the throne of the Holy Roman Empire? ;)
I'm only Swedish, 100% (as far back as I know, 16th century), but I wish I was Balkan! :)
Take care my "sockpuppet" ;)- Litany
Aha Krajina! :) Well the Austrian Empire is pretty much older then the German, but many refers to the Third Reich history.
How is it in Zemun? I wanna go to Belgrade, really really much.
How do I get to be a member of the History Wikiproject? Litany

[edit] Straw Poll

U toku je Poll o statii Republic of Macedonia. Ako hoces mozes glasati ovde [7]. Pozdrav! --Realek 01:07, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Listen here, shithead...

Don't fuck (attack) with your words. You can talk with Kosovars just slowly and easy, otherwise, i will call NATO to bomb your house. Is that clear? Aeternus 16:37, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Wow, there; I talk to everyone slowly & easily (at least I think :). Could you point out what you didn't like in my behavour? Also, please note that using vulgar language and those words is a Personal attack, I'm afraid. I've put a PA warning on you talk page according to the WP:No Personal Attacks policy. Sorry for that, but you have to stay cool and be civil! --HolyRomanEmperor 22:52, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article Improvement Belgrade

You may wish to vote for Belgrade at the Article Improvement Drive page, here. --estavisti 21:08, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Serbian lands

  • Banat je bio u sastavu Srbije 1941-1944, s tim što je bio autonomni entitet kojim je upravljala nemačka nacionalna manjina. Dakle, formalno je bio u Srbiji, a faktičku vlast su imali domaći Nemci. Međutim, dva su razloga što sam ga stavio na listu: 1. bio je u sastavu Srbije, 2. najbrojniji narod u njemu su bili Srbi. Inače ne znam službeno ime Banata i Srbije iz tog vremena.
  • Sličan slučaj je i Crna Gora. Pošto je crnogorska nacija službeno priznata tek posle rata, može se smatrati da su većinski narod u Crnoj Gori između 1941 i 1944 bili Srbi.
  • Srbija i Crna gora su bile socijalističke republike samo do stvaranja SRJ 1992. Tada je naziv "socijalistički" skinut i sa Jugoslavije i sa republika. Dakle, 100 posto sam siguran da je između 1992 i 2000 službeni naziv bio samo Republika Srbija (bez onog "socijalistička"). Isto je i za Kosovo i Vojvodinu, dakle, naziv "socijalistička" se nije koristio za ove dve pokrajine posle 1992, međutim, nisam siguran da li se koristio između 1990 i 1992. To treba proveriti.
  • Što se tiče toga da sam ponovio Srbiju, CG, Vojvodinu i Kosovo u istorijskim, misliš na mestu kod SRJ. Pa što se tiče ovog problema sa SRJ-SCG, radi se o tome da li ćemo ih tretirati kao dve različite države ili kao jednu koja je promenila ime. Ako ih tretiramo kao dve, onda treba navesti republike i pokrajine SRJ tamo gde je pominjemo. Međutim, ako ih tretiramo kao jednu državu, onda sve u vezi SRJ treba obrisati iz istorijske sekcije i kod SCG napisati da se između 1992 i 2003 ta država zvala SRJ. Meni je svejedno, ti napiši šta misliš da je tu bolje.
  • Imam i ja jedno pitanje za tebe. Od kada do kada se za republike SFRJ koristio naziv "narodna republika"? Jel između 1945 i 1974? Ako je tako, dopiši to u članak na odgovarajućim mestima ako možeš. PANONIAN (talk) 23:20, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Pazi, što se članka o Vojvodini tiče, ja bih ostavio englesko ime. Latinično ime Vojvodine po meni tu ima dvostruku ulogu: 1. označava srpski naziv u latiničnoj verziji i 2. označava hrvatski naziv. U suštini može se smatrati i da označava samo hrvatski naziv, jer hrvatski je jedan od službenih jezika. Ako izbaciš engleski naziv onda će latinično ime biti napisano većim slovima nego imena na ostalim jezicima i onda bi imali problem: 1. ili bi to značilo da je latinično ime srpska varijanta i prema tome hrvatski naziv uopšte ne bi bio pomenut, ili 2. bi to značilo da latinično ime predstavlja hrvatski naziv koji je napisan većim slovima nego na primer mađarski ili rumunski, a to se kosi sa ravnopravnom upotrebom svih ovih jezika. Dakle, imamo problem i jedino rešenje koje meni pada na pamet je da ostavimo englesko ime. Ako smisliš drugo rešenje reci mi, ali bitno je da svi službeni jezici Vojvodine (uključujući hrvatski) budu tu i da ni jedan naziv na tim službenim jezicima ne bude veći od naziva na drugim jezicima. Izuzetak je naravno srpski, koji je državni jezik, a ne samo regionalni.

Što se tiče skidanja autonomije Vojvodini, 1989 je srušena vojvođanska vlada, a 1990 je to ozvaničeno u ustavu Srbije. Prema tome, upotreba obe od ovih godina je tačna, zavisi na koji od ova dva događaja mislimo. Što se tiče toga zašto se u članku o istoriji Vojvodine spominje Kosovo, mislim da taj deo nisam ja pisao, pa moraš pitati onog ko jeste, a nemam pojma ko bi to mogao biti, jer je članak istorija Vojvodine premešten tu iz članka Vojvodina, a zaista ne znam ko je originalni autor te rečenice. Ako ti to smeta, slobodno promeni. PANONIAN (talk) 23:39, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Pa ne znam što su Milošević i Šešelj koristili naziv socijalistička (verovatno je u pitanju lapsus), ali na mojim ličnim dokumentima piše Republika Srbija (bez onog socijalistička), a dokumenti su na primer diploma srednje škole, na kojoj piše da je njeno izdavanje odobreno rešenjem Ministarstva prosvete Republike Srbije iz 1994 godine, ili izvod iz matične knjige rođenih (isto iz 1994) gde piše samo Republika Srbija. I na uverenju o državljanstvu iz 1998 godine mi piše Republika Srbija i Autonomna Pokrajina Vojvodina (obe bez onog "socijalistička"). Inače kažeš da su se od 1945 do 1963 članice SFRJ zvale "narodna republika", a kako su se zvale od 1963 do 1974?. Dakle, poenta je da ako smo već napisali kako su se te republike ranije zvale, da bar preciziramo od kada do kada? PANONIAN (talk) 23:55, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

E, a što se tiče tog problema oko kosovskih okruga, tom problematikom ne želim da se bavim dok se konačni status Kosova ne reši. S obzirom da je sadašnji status Kosova prilično konfuzan, teško je reći ko je u pravu u ovom sporu. U rezoluciji 1244 se zaista nigde ne pominje Srbija, već samo SRJ, prema tome, status tih kosovskih okruga je zaista nemoguće odrediti. PANONIAN (talk) 00:07, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Ја мислим да је 1990. године избачено оно "социјалистачка" из назива република СФРЈ, јер су тада одржани вишестраначки избори. А то се може видети и по документима после 1990. Alexzr88 19:06, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stop with Vandalismus

You are deletin the peopels work with out any arguments--Hipi Zhdripi 02:35, 9 April 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Barnstar awarded

I award you for your calmness and level-headedness when editing and discussing controversial articles. Asterion 18:01, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
I award you for your calmness and level-headedness when editing and discussing controversial articles. Asterion 18:01, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi HolyRomanEmperor, I think you well deserve this. Thanks, my friend. Best wishes, Asterion 18:01, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but not for Wikipedia. More for Milosevic works.--Hipi Zhdripi 18:09, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Hipi Zhdripi, your time will come. Don't spoil the broth. Asterion 18:11, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Barnstar awarded

Image:Coat of arms of Serbia.svg


SSSS/ Only the Union Save the Serbs,
but this has nothing to do with Wikipedia. I remand you Only the Union Makes Wikipedia a Encikloped.

[edit] Odgovor

  • Pazi, ako pomeneš SFRJ i ako od njenih republika tu navedeš samo Hrvatsku kao srpsku zemlju, to u najmanju ruku izgleda smešno. Dakle, ili navedi sve republike SFRJ gde su Srbi bili narod ili nemoj nijednu. Drugo, ako pominjemo Srbiju i Crnu Goru u okviru SRJ ili SCG onda se moramo ograničiti na period posle 1992. Znači to nisu samo druga imena za ove republike, već su imena u okviru druge državne tvorevine.
  • Za Kosovo mi je svejedno šta će pisati za period posle 1999, ali između 1992 i 1999 je AP Kosovo i Metohija (bez onog "socijalistička").
To nije tacno. Tacno je po ustavom Republike Serbie Kosovo je samo kulurelna Autonomia. To znacida Kosovo od 1992 do 1999, prema Srpski parliamen bilo Albanska, pokaraina, tamo moze da albanci ide u djamiu. serbki jezik je bio jedini sluzbeni jezik. Albanci nemaju pravu da ide u albanski skolo za to je bio razgovori sa Rugovom i Miloseviqu u Grcku. Treba da vidis (ne znam kako se zove u serbski) "Marrveshja për Arsim" "Agreemant for Education in Kosova".--Kanuni 15:58, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Brčko je prema odluci arbitraže kondominijum koji istovremeno pripada obema entitetima, i ništa u vezi njega nije sporno.
  • Što se tiče toga da si postavio kriterijum da navedeš samo zemlje gde su Srbi bili ustavni narod, ne vidim zašto bi samo taj kriterijum morao da se koristi ovde. Ustavna kategorija uopšte nije postojala u srednjem veku na primer, i po tvom kriterijumu bismo morali izbaciti mnoge države iz spiska (jesu li recimo u Beloj Srbiji u Polablju Srbi bili konstitutivan narod kad nisu znali ni šta je ustav?). Dakle primena tvog kriterijuma bi nepotrebno suzila okvire ovog članka, a pojam "srpske zemlje" se na primer koristi u istorijskom atlasu koji imam da označi zemlje u devetom veku kad Srbi sigurno nigde nisu bili konstitutivan narod. Prema tome, ako je članak "Serbian Lands" i ako smo pomenuli Duklju i Travuniju iz 9. veka onda nema razloga ni da ne pomenemo Crnu Goru iz 1941. Ako želiš da pomeneš samo zemlje gde su Srbi bili "konstituvan narod" onda bi verovatno trebao da napišeš nov članak pod naslovon "Lands where Serbs are constitutional nation" ili nešto takvo, jer pojam "Serbian Lands" je mnogo širi od konstitutivne kategorije.
  • Što se tiče Miloševića, on suštinski i nije bio socijalista. On je bio klasičan diktator koji je po potrebi bio i socijalista i nacionalista i demokrata, a 2000 godine se nisu toliko drastično promenile stvari u samoj Srbiji koliko u odnosu međunarodne zajednice prema Srbiji. Srbija na primer i danas ima ustav koji je doneo Milošević. I da se nadovežem na prethodno pitanje, po tom ustavu Srbi u Srbiji uopšte nisu konstitutivan narod, jer je Srbija po njemu država svih građana. Dakle, morao bi i samu Srbiju izbaciti iz spiska srpskih zemalja kad bi konstitutivnost naroda ovde bila jedini kriterijum.
  • Što se tiče naziva area/region, u to se ne razumem pa radi sa tim šta oćeš.
  • Pošto me sećanje dobro služi, veoma se dobro sećam da je u medijima u Srbiji korišćen naziv Sremsko-baranjska oblast za to područje. Jesi siguran da su lokalne vlasti koristile naziv republika?
  • Šta je konkretno pogrešno kod srednjovekovnih država? Gledao sam da to uradim najtačnije moguće, a koristio sam istorijske knjige pri pisanju te sekcije. Dakle, ako nešto smatraš netačnim, ispravi, ali nemoj stavljati NPOV tag. PANONIAN (talk) 18:46, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Latin America won!

 Thank you for your support of the Article Improvement Drive.
This week Latin America was selected to be improved to featured article status.
Hope you can help…

Joyous | Talk 19:01, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Serbian Lands

  • Pa za početak, u uvodnom delu članka sam naveo neke kriterijume na osnovu kojih možemo neku državu ili teritoriju uvrstiti u članak: "Notably, the list include lands and states that were mainly inhabited or ruled by Serbs during the history, as well as lands and states where Serbs were official or constitutional nation." Dakle, NDH zaista ne spada ni u jedan od ovih kriterijuma, dok Crna Gora iz 1941 spada u zemlje gde su Srbi bili većinski narod (bez obzira na politički stav tadašnjeg crnogorskog rukovodstva, jer njih niko nije birao na izborima, već su ih na vlast doveli italijanski fašisti).
Serbian Lands this is wrong. Ovi nisu srbski ovu su bizantiski ili tacno Othodos land in Balkan za ove "Kings" kazes se da su bili "autonom-King" ali to su ipak Bisantinki.--Kanuni 17:53, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Što se tiče srednjovekovnih srpskih država, imam solidnu literaturu o tome, a evo ti na primer citati iz knjige "Srbija Nemanjića i Hilandar" (Miloš Blagojević, Beograd-Novi Sad, 1988): "Do tog vremena (misli se na 9. vek), Srbi su osnovali nekoliko samostalnih oblasti sa ispoljenim elementima državnosti, kao i jednu pravu državu koju Konstantin Porfirogenit naziva Srbijom." To je dakle ta Srbija iz 9. veka, a pored nje su postojale i one 4 primorske kneževine. Posle toga sve te oblasti dolaze pod bugarsku i vizantijsku vlast i prestaju da postoje, da bi kasnije bile obnovljene ili formirane nove. Sledeće, ne znam gde si čitao da neke od tih zemalja postoje od 7. veka, ali zvanična istoriografija uglavnom ne ide dalje u prošlost od 9. veka. I na mapama Euratlasa te zemlje ne postoje u 7. veku:
  • http://www.euratlas.com/
Bolje je kazite crkve drzave i da se vidi razlika izmedju crke i drzave. Ako hoces da vidis istinu--Kanuni 17:53, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Znaš kako, pošto ne znam koje ti izvore koristiš, a ja sam koristio nekoliko, lepo ispravi u članku ono što smatraš pogrešnim kod tih srednjovekovnih država, a ja ću onda prihvatiti ono sa čime se slažem, promeniti ono sa čime se ne slažem, pa onda ti to uradi, itd, i valjda ćemo dobiti neku srednju verziju. Šta bude sporno prodiskutovaćemo, ali jedno po jedno, jer ne mogu sada da diskutujem sve od jednom. Ok? PANONIAN (talk) 20:24, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Not clear

I really do not understand your comments and questions in my page. Ilir pz 21:35, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Peace

HolyRomanEmperor, the revert war is going too far. I can guarantee you that from my side, I am ready to continue with this as long as it takes. Is it worth? no. I propose we go further with a more constructive work and calmer heads. Let us discuss articles we are gonna cite, thoroughly, and in the talk page. Do not just revert. I can do that as well. Try to use your influence with the other reverters that revert according to your taste, and I will do the same with "mine" and we get to compromise. Otherwise, this is getting nowhere, and we are wasting time. It might be late one day, as we will get in a crazy revert-loop that we won't be able to get out of. Kindly, Ilir pz 22:08, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] template

That was weird... I also tried to remove it (and thought I did) when I added it to the user page.Oh well, it worked this time.--ragesoss 01:24, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Поздрав

Hi! How are you? I’m the user that was formerly known as Bitola. I decided to make some changes (changes are always welcomed from time to time). In the last message you sent to me you said that we had met (or read) through our common friend, User:Macedonian, but I don’t have an idea when? I noticed you are mostly engaged in the Serbian articles. I will take some rest from the heated Macedonian issue for some time. Поздрав! MatriX 16:58, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kosovo

See: Talk:Serbia --Hipi Zhdripi 19:44, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] COTW Project

You voted for Demographics of Europe, this week's Collaboration of the week. Please come and help it become a featured-standard article. --Avala 20:43, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re

Dakle, za srednjovekovne zemlje sam ti već rekao, promeni šta misliš da treba promeniti, pa ćemo kasnije diskutovati o onome što eventualno bude sporno. Što se tiče NDH, mislim da teritorijalna rasprostranjenost naroda baš i nije neki kriterijum koji bisno trebali da koristimo (U Kanadi na primer Indijanci žive na mnogo većoj teritoriji nego Frankokanađani, a Frankokanađani su narod, dok indijanci nisu). Znači, jednostavan kriterijum je taj da navedemo zemlje gde su Srbi bili apsolutna ili relativna većina, i po tome Crna Gora spada tu, a NDH ne. Sledeća stvar je opet i da termin Crnogorac može da ima značenje i Crnogorac i Srbin, prema tome ako govorimo o Crnoj Gori u bilo kom vremenskom periodu možemo je označiti kao srpsku zemlju, dok Hrvatsku ne možemo. Što se tiče današnje Makedonije i Hrvatske, u Makedoniji Srbi imaju status naroda ako ne grešim, a u Hrvatskoj status manjine. Mislim da to nije isto. PANONIAN (talk) 22:54, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reply - sorry

No, I was talking to Ilir. He's just been blocked for violating the 3RR on Albanians (POV pushing about Kosovo). --NikX 22:55, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Popup reverts

You simply need to install this: Wikipedia:Tools/Navigation popups. Off to bed now. I asked User:Mel Etitis for mediation on the Kosovo article. I just tried once again to settle down issues with Hipi, at least getting him to accept that even if its final status is still undecided, no one should deny that Kosovo is still part of Serbia (and SCG, of course). I am not holding my breath. Asterion 23:01, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shi'a

To my knowledge there are no "Shi'a Bosniaks".In fact I don't think it it completely accurate to cathegorize Bosniak Muslims as Sunni Muslims either.Although their belief is in line with Sunni part of Islam they do not stem from the same ancestorial line of traditionalism of Sunni Muslims nor do they make a strong distinctions between Shi'a and Sunni as it is usually done in Middle East. (actually in context with other muslim groups I like to describe them as "Muslims Light" :) --Dado 23:22, 11 April 2006 (UTC)


I forgot to mention that Sufism as a branch of Islam was also very influential in Bosnia that made this clear Sunni cathegorisation even less potent. --Dado 23:31, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bosnian Language

First of all, you do not use the template Bosnian Language and should not be claiming vandalism. Trying to convince all of the admin users on your side.

Bosnian Cyrillic is extinct.

  1. Yes, in Bosnia the governemnt recognizes three languages: BOSNIAN, CROATIAN, and SERBIAN, However, Bosnian is not recoginized in cyrillic. All of the cyrillic that is seen in Bosnia is Serbian.

Look at the discussion page of the template:

People do not want it to be changed, not JUST BOSNIANS, but Croatians, too.

Bosnian cyrillic is EXTINCT. SERBS IN BOSNIAN DO NOT VIEW THEMSELVES AS BOSNIANS, THEY CALL THEMSELVES SERBS AND THEY SAY THAT THEY SPEAK SERBIAN. The BOSNIAN LANGUAGE does not use ekav in its dialogue. The Serbs use it and it is part of the Serbian language.

  • At www.google.ba BOSANSKI (BOSNIAN LANGUAGE) is the pre-set language. You can change to Hravatski (Croatian) while still searching www.Google.ba, then if you change it to cyrillic you are searching in Serbian at google.ba (This shows that Cyrillic is part of the SERBIAN LANGUAGE not the Bosnian).
  1. [As a side note] Srpsko-Hrvatski is an extinct language, no one wants Yugoslavia again, espacially the Serbs (starting from Gazimestan). They are the ones that screwed it all up. Give it up!

Do not change a template that you do not want to use or be represented by! WHO do you think you are changing userboxes without asking/talking it over with its users!!!

Thank you, Kseferovic 00:00, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re

Svakako ima više definicija pojma Crnogorac, ja sam imao na umu onu po kojoj su Crnogorci (u smislu narodnosti) smatrali sebe narodom koji je istovremeno i deo srpskog naroda. Što se tiče Hrvatske, ako Srbi i danas tamo imaju status naroda (a ne manjine), treba je dodati u spisak. Pošto ja ne znam šta tačno piše u ustavu Hrvatske, to ostavljam tebi da proučiš. PANONIAN (talk) 00:28, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RFA's

I don't think I have unusually high standards in RFA, but of course I'm POV in that statement (although they do seem to be close to the mode of the statistics).But I have gone back and reviewed some of my recent RFA edits to see if I've become too biased one way or the other to new candidates.

Of the current RFA's:

and of the Recently created admins:

I haven't gone through the recently failed RFA's but apparently consensus would have been with me on any opposes there.

I generally look at the RFA page regularly, but obviously don't weigh in on each discussion.I don't think that adminship is always "no big deal", especially when wheel wars shamefully develop or being involved in fiasco's such as The Great Userbox War of 2006.

To reply to your comment, "You have been opposing quitte a number of requests for adminship and they're most by unexperienced wikipedians"[8]; I do think that experience is important to being a SysOp, in that for an admin, process is important to maintaining the project.

Not sure if this answers your question sufficiently, please talk page me if you have other questions. — xaosflux Talk 01:58, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Got your reply.Having sysop rights generally means you have more work to do, and that's about it.Even if you don't plan in participating in them, being this status also marks you as somone that can determine consensus on deletion discussions, then act on them.This area is very heated with some editors, so demonstrating experience in the process there is helpful to a successful RFA.Additionally admins are expected to follow and enforce certain policies, to do so familiarity and contribution to them is also helpful.Looking at the raw numbers in your contribution tree, I'd say you'd likely get oppose votes from having a lower number of Wikipedia: name space contributions, likely with a similiar comments to your last RFA. — xaosflux Talk 15:51, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
I wouldn't go sofar as to say demands, but my standards do require experience with project realted editing.A list of many edit's standards is at Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Standards (including mine.)If you were up for RFA right now I'd probally skip over you alltogether, but if forced to vote, would oppose on low project work.You may want to join one of the WikiProjects, or just become more active in the xFD's.Village Pump Policy is another good one to get involved with guidelines and policies. — xaosflux Talk 16:05, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
Sounds great, give me a shout in another month or so, or if you have any questions in the meantime. — xaosflux Talk 16:46, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I will ease down... (Bosanski/Bošnjački)

(PLEASE READ ALL OF THIS, I KNOW IT IS TEDIOUS, BUT PLEASE, THANKS)

I was not claiming that you were a Serb nationalist. I put that out to say that at Gazimestan, Serb nationalists began claiming that Serbians (who were the majority, as you know) were being oppressed be the other nations. But I do not wish to go into an arguement over that issue. My only concern is the issue over whether to use latin or cyrillic. I, personally, do not know cyrillic. Therefore, I feel that I am not represented by it. Not every speaker of Bosnian knows cyrillic (especially the ones who were forced to leave due to the Bosnian War, but every speaker, be it a Serbian speaker or Bosnian speaker, knows latin. Croatians claim that the Bosnian language is called Bošnjački. I am not for this title of the Bosnian language. However, I feel as if I have no other choice, but to accept it. Therefore, we should have a template for Bošnjački, to represent us who do not know cyrillic. (I know that you can say that the language does not exist, or cannot be made since Bošnjački Wikipedia does not exist, but what else is there left to do). Let's talk this over and come to a conclusion.

I was not trying to offend you at all. (General statements).

If you look at Wikipedia Bosanski only latin is used (Whether it be fr pratical reasons or not). This does go along with my point that latin is used (MOSTLY, Almost always). If cyrillic was really official like it is in Serbia, then the Bosnian Wikipedia would be both in cyrillic and latin (like the Serbian Wikipedia it is in both). The Bosnian Wikipedia says that it uses the latin script for pratical reasons (such as: people do not have the cyrillic keyboard, etc.) Well this goes along with my point that it is not used as much. People do not have cyrillic keyboards like the people in Serbia.
Offical newspapers in Bosnia are not in cyrillic. They are in latin. (Slobodna Bosna, Oslobodjenje, Ljiljan, Nezavisne Novine (For all ethnicities), neither are their websites. Cyrillic is most commonly used in Serbia.
How are you going to use a Wikipedia Article to prove your point. Now where does it say that it is 100% correct. I had problems with the German Wikipedia on Bosanska Dubica, they claimed that Hrvatska Dubica and Bosanska Dubica were the same town/municipality. This is just crazy. Anyways I will never understand why people, who have no clue about where Dubica is or have never before heard about the town, write about it. My point is that people can write things on a biased level. They showed me websites as proof, but websites cannot be used as refrences in the United States for grammar school projects. Websites can never be trusted.
I mentioned this before, www.google.ba uses Bosnian and Croatian in latin, but if you want to search google.ba in cyrillic then you have to click Serbian to search google.ba in cyrillic.
I also looked at several different translation websites and found that if you want to translate into Bosnian, then you are translating into latin (Bosnian). However, for Serbian it gives you an option (latin or cyrillic).
In the world Bosnian is viewed by Bosnians and by the rest of the world as using the latin script.
Then explain to me why the Serbian template does not have latin and cyrillic.
I would have to say that only Srpsko-Hrvatski should have both, but the languages that have split from Yugoslavia, should be chosen by its users. If you want to changed the Bosnian template than use it. Please do not change something you do not feel represented by.
The country of Bosnia and Herzegovina recognizes the three languages: Bosnian, Croatian, Serbian. Serbian is the one that uses cyrillic and that is how it is offical in Bosnia. The Bosnian language does not tend to use cyrillic.

Hvala, Thanks --Kseferovic

[edit] My RfA

Many thanks for your support on my recent RfA. It was successful. Thanks again, Mark83 19:35, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bosnian Language

I am a fluent speaker of Bosnian,however, I am not familiar Cyrillic, the reason being I have no use for it. I live in the United States, where it is not convenient to use the Cyrillic alphabet, i.e., the keyboards do not have cyrillic letters. Even if I travel in Bosnia, the Cyrillic influence is of minute stature, especially outside of Republika Srpska. Kseferovic 21:37, 12 April 2006 (UTC)


It is a matter of personal choice if user boxes would need to be official or not.Since we are talking about the user boxes I would let users themselves decide if they want to have both variants.You will notice that most who consider Bosnian language their native also only prefer a latin use of the script.I would keep the issue unofficial.If the question was about an article your "official" theory would probably make more sense.

Most of the people in Bosanska Krajina did not simply prefer to use cyrilic but that was the only script available to them for use given the migration of Serb into the region.Keep in mind that at that time only a small percent of population was actually literate. At least in last 50 years since the introduction of SH language both variants were used equally in formal and latin variant almost exclusevly in informal use.I personally have first learned cyrilic and I consider it my "native script".However this was not done because I or my parents prefered to learn it first but it was a matter of chance.I simply ended up in a class that decided to learn cyrilic first (I think it was a flip of the coin that decided it).My friends in my generation in another class learned latin first (but picked it the same way).

I would not agree that Bosnian language is a direct successor of the Serbo-Croatian language.If I am not mistaking SH was established in the mid 20th century.Bosnian language existed before that so it may be the other way around.There is a book "Grammar of Bosnian language" issued in late 19th century as an example of this.

I would agree however that the language in Bosnia has changed its official name from Bosnian to SH and back to Bosnian,while it was and still is the same language with its natural evolutionary process.--Dado 21:49, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] BiH language

You asked me what school I went to. I was educated in Germany. I left in 1992. My educated was primarily in Germany, and then in the United States. I never attended a Bosnian school. This, however, does no mean that I do not know how to speak and write Bosnian. I just had no need to learn cyrillic and still do not see any need. My parents, who grew up in Yugoslavia, know cyrillic. My family comes from the town of Bosanska Dubica, (do not claim that I cannot speak Bosnian, etc.) I am not a villager either. My mom is a doctor in the US, finished the University of Belgrade. My point is that more and more generations are growing up (at least outside of Bosnia) not knowing cyrillic.LOOK AT DADO's COMMENTS ON THE BOSNIAN LANGUAGE TEMPLATE DISCUSSION. Don't ignore his views, he even wrote on your discussion page (above).

I attend a very prestigious high school program. (International Baccalaureate program). Do some research on it, the program began in Switzerland, based on international standards.

--Kseferovic

[edit] Invitation

Hello! I invite you to join the WikiProject Serbia. All the best, --serbiana - talk 02:35, 13 April 2006 (UTC)


[edit] (Late) Reply

What? No, no, no! If you wonder why I diden't answear yesterday I can tell you I was too tired after work and had too spend some time with my girlfriend. :) You also had to follow up other contributions. :) Your description of Beograd diden't scare me, I still wanna go there. I've heard so much about the city, good and bad, so it was no news. I also heard so much better things about other Serbian towns that I want to visit, like Novi Sad, Sombor, Subotica and Nis. :)

I assumed I had too explain that template some time. I diden't accept any other langueges then the Serbocroatian for a very very long time. But for about a year ago I accepted that there is more then dialects. I have both Serb and Montenegrin friends. The Montenegrins think they are their own people but that is their opinion.

Take care - Litany

[edit] The only language is to speek with argumets

If you wont to know how I am and wat I am traying to say to you read this.

How is Hipi Zhdripi [9]

On the eastern banks of the Adriatic, a mere three days journey from Vienna, live an
autochthonous people who for centuries have been fighting for their freedom and 
independence against enemies and oppressors of all types. This nation has clung steadfast to its 
roots through countless wars and the cataclysms of history. Neither the great migrations nor wars
with the Serbs, the Turks and other invaders have hindered the Albanians from maintaining their 
nationality, their language, and the purity and originality of their customs. The history of this 
nation is an unbroken chain of bloody battles against violent oppressors, but not even the most 
unspeakable of atrocities have managed to annihilate this people. Intellectual life has
flourished among the Albanians even though their oppressors endeavoured to cut off all cultural
development at the root. This nation produced great generals and men of state for the Ottoman Empire.
Albanians were among the best judges in Turkey and among the greatest authors of Turkish literature.
Almost all the merchants of Montenegro were Albanian, as were many fine businessmen in the major
cities of Romania. The Albanians played an important role in Italy, too. Crispi was one of them. 
Greece’s bravest soldiers were of Albanian blood.
In the wake of the cataclysms wrought by the Balkan War, the ancient dream of freedom and
independence for this people is now becoming a reality. The Great Powers of Europe have decided to
grant Albania its national autonomy.
But the Serbian thirst for conquest has now found a means of destroying the fair dream of this
courageous and freedom-loving people before it can be realized. Serbian troops have invaded Albania
with fire and sword. And if Albania cannot be conquered, then at least the Albanian people can be
exterminated. This is the solution they propose.

And now Hipi Zhdripis realty is :

Image:Ne Udhetim 132.jpg
The City Center of Prishtina

User:Emir_Arven, a proud Bosnikm has been removing Serbian from the Serbian cyrillic on every article regarding the Serbs claiming that the cyrillic is not only Serbian, but Bosnian too. The fact that the Bosnian language prefers Latin has nothing to do with it. The Serbian language prefers Cyrillic, the same situation.

I can't even understand the sentences you said. It is a complete run-on, making no sense. The only thing I got out of it, was a negative accusation from you. Next time, please make more sense. Sorry, if a misunderstood you, but it makes no sense at all.

--Kseferovic


[edit] POV tag at Boka Kotorska

Hello HolyRomanEmperor. Would you accept the heading "Croatian heritage" or "Croatian heritage of Boka Kotorska" as NPOV? Alternatively, "Croatian historical and cultural heritage in Boka Kotorska" would be very NPOV, but it's a rather long title. Regards. --Thewanderer 18:51, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] re:Bosnian Krajina

Do you know its name in Turkish? I know that it's somthing like Serhat, but I need that in plain Turkish language. Thanks, mate! --HolyRomanEmperor 15:16, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

This time i'm really sorry. I checked online sources, then searched on encyclopedias at home but can't find anything. At least i can tell you Krajina is used in Turkish encs. And about Serhat, it means border, frontier. I guess they only used Serhat word, when i search online Turkish sources on google there are enough references. Again sorry. Take care --Ugur Basak 19:03, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bosnian Krajina

Ok, Serhat is plain Turkish for frontier, actually its meaning is Sınır boyu. Serhat is an old word Ser is Persian and hadd is Arabic :). Serhat is used as person name in Turkey, Sınır boyu is modern Turkish word for Serhat.And to help you i add some references to Bosnia and Serhat
Balkan Yarımadası'nın (batı ucu) serhat bölgesi niteliğinde olan Bosna-Hersek , Balkan peninsulas serhat land Bosnia-Herzegovia [10]
Osmanlının en batı ucundaki bu serhat eyaleti , Ottoman Empires this western Serhat state (eyalet) [11]
I hope this time i could answer your question.--Ugur Basak 15:27, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
I changed Sınır boyu to Bosna sınır boyu (Bosnian frontier) i guess its better. Take care --Ugur Basak 15:39, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reply

Well, even by asking my friends about it, they seem confused about the issue. :) Acctually I can tell you that you can't have the template with Serbocroatian language -1. Its not working on my site so I will just keep it as it is. Just not to exclude any language (which are baisicly dialects).

I'm joining the Wikiprojekt History now. :) Take care, Litany

[edit] Glasovi

Daj još molim te daj svoj glas ovdje[[12]] i ovdje[[13]]. Hvala:)! Luka Jačov 10:50, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks! Ovo drugo je Gagauzia na Article Improvment Drive. Luka Jačov 16:29, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Može onda glas za Gagauziju:)? Luka Jačov 09:47, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Crna Gora

I read the text you wrote on Ilir's talk page. I, honest to God, hope that Montenegro doesn't get independence. I really really hope you are right. Ja sam letovao u Crnoj Gori 13 godina zaredom, uvek smo išli kod jedne iste porodice privatno. Bio je to jedan stariji bračni par, a njihova deca su dolazila s vremena na vreme. Prvih godina kad smo bili tamo, dok sam bio mali, učili su me kako trebam biti dobar Srbin, kako su svi Crnogorci Srbi i kako je Milošević svetinja. Zatim, jedne godine, neposredno pre bombardovanja, počeli su da pljuju po Srbima, kako su to najgori narod na svetu, kako su oni Crnogorci, a ne Srbi... Ja ne shvatam koji je to fenomen, kako mogu ljudi tako iznenada da se promene. Izvini što te smaram sa mojom pričom, ali bih voleo da čujem tvoje mišljenje o tome... --serbiana - talk 19:20, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Project Dardania

Wat tare you doing. Youa are going to be boundit. That is vandalizmus. You dont have right to do such thinks in English Wikipedia. You are destroing my work.In that projek is clerali writeng that you dont have any right only the user Hipi Zhdripi and Iliri Pz--Hipi Zhdripi 23:44, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

You are going to be boundit.--Hipi Zhdripi 23:56, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Serbian

Many people do use the Roman script, but that's a remnant of Serbo-Croatian. Serbian is properly written in Cyrillic. There are many books in what is nowadays called "Croatian" which were printed in Cyrillic, but you don't see the Croatian language userbox with Cyrillic as an alternative script. That said, I'd most like to just have one language (name doesn't have to be SH, just some term we can all agree on that covers SCG, BiH and HR), which can be written in either script. The whole thing is ridiculous, we seem to have 15 names for the same language.... As to my distrust of the EU, that's because I don't think joining it would be good for Serbia, and I can't believe the sort of religious awe it inspires in SCG. А Црна Гора ме занима зато што сам пореклом Црногорац. (Isn't everyone?). Dođi ponekad na srpski IRC ili daj mezendžer kontakt ako ga imaš, it's good to talk. estavisti 14:08, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hipi Zhdripi

I have requested semi-protection for Kosovo, Serbia and Serbia and Montenegro articles. Hipi Zhdripi is simply too much to cope with. He has now started to not just removing content but vandalise articles too. Have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_page_protection#Current_requests_for_protection if you feel like adding anything. Regards, --Asterion 20:22, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

All sorted now. All pages semi-protected now. I can't restore the deleted content in the Kosovo article without going over 3RR myself. I did not request sprotection for Montenegro, if you think it is necessary, simply enter the details in the Requests for Protection noticeboard. I just can't believe how he escalated things after you suggested a name change for his two-people wikiproject. Well, I hope we get some peace and Hipi Zhdripi reflects a little bit somehow... Cheers, --Asterion 21:00, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mape

Pa primetio sam da je neko u članke o Srbiji i Crnoj Gori stavio mape kao da su nezavisne države. Međutim, ne moraju se te mape tumačiti tako, mogu se tumačiti i kao određenje njihovog položaja u Evropi bez obzira na njihov status. Mislim, meni je svejedno, ako hoćeš vrati stare mape, ako hoćeš ostavi ove, kako god smatraš da je bolje. PANONIAN (talk) 20:26, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Kako misliš nema mapa? U tabeli u članku Srbija ima mapa slična onoj u članku Crna Gora ako na to misliš. Inače, nemam sada vremena da se bavim time, kažem ti, vrati stare mape ako misliš da su bolje. PANONIAN (talk) 21:10, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] COTW Project

You voted for Lipovans, this week's Collaboration of the week.Please come and help it become a featured-standard article. -Scottwiki 04:58, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] you know not kosovo you fuck

Kosovo en great land. All kosovo? Albanians - noi serbs. en you find kosovo non-albanin? shquiptar is good, serb is bad; you stupid moronic fuckl must know all serbs must die. if you serb then stay away en kosovo or i call nato to kill yur paronts. Dou yu got? --Hipi Zhdripi

No comment... --HolyRomanEmperor 19:27, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please stop

Could you please refrain from using edit summaries in an uncivil way as you did here? If you have a problem with someone's editing style, please discuss it on the user's Talk page or maybe on the Talk page of the article in question. Using edit summaries for such comments is hardly the best option. Thank you. --Elephantus 15:01, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I'll chill off, naturally, thank you for the warning. But you must admit: your actions are getting very near to those of an internet troll. But only 5,6 of us (for now) think that, so do not take this seriously, but neither take it for granted. Please note that you have been constantly edit warring and tagging around the Wiki. Why would you do that? --HolyRomanEmperor 18:37, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Talking of trolling, you had been exhibiting borderline trolling behaviour for many months, beginning with your anonymous IP edits on the Croatian Wikipedia and later switching to this Wikipedia, apparently hoping to exploit the general lack of expertise on the Balkan topics here. You started promoting nationalistic POV by littering many southeastern Europe articles with obscure and often dubious references to Serbs, backing them by outlandish one-sided history texts and similar references and claiming they're non-biased. You have betrayed an almost complete lack of understanding of basic Wikipedia policies, such as WP:NPOV or WP:V. You also have problems distinguishing vandalism from content disputes. All along, you have tried to portray yourself as a non-nationalist and "a disinterested third party" to those not knowledgeable enough to understand the nature of your edits here. Your recent "laying low" is apparently a result of an attempt to gain adminship. This Wikipedia has several knowledgeable and wise contributors from Serbia or of Serbian origin whose primary goal is to help make it better, but sadly you're not among them. --Elephantus 13:13, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Tvrtko

Referring to anyone as the "greatest" (or "worst", for that matter) is blatantly not neutral. It takes a position on an issue, in direct contravence to the neutral point of view policy. Feel free to quote a historian who claimed that Tvrtko was the greatest native ruler of Bosnia if such exists, but to state as a fact that he was the "greatest" is unnacceptable.--Sean Black (talk) 22:30, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your vote for Celestianpower

Hi, from your vote and the edit summary, I got the idea that you thought it was about an RFA, instead of a Request for Bureaucratship... It might not change your vote, but I thought you should know either way, since your vote may be commented on by others. --JoanneB 18:45, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

I think this [14] is what you're looking for. Regards, --JoanneB 19:22, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Manual of Style

Baci oko ovdje: Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)#Avoid overlinking dates.

Pozdrav, Duja 19:56, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] RFA question.

Although editcountitis is fatal, a contributions tree is useful for seeing the range of areas worked on.(e.g. here is yours:)

Username HolyRomanEmperor
Total edits 4967
Distinct pages edited 791
Average edits/page 6.279
First edit 2005-08-24 16:49:03
(main) 1962
Talk 829
User 98
User talk 1852
Image 22
Template 30
Template talk 4
Category 6
Wikipedia 147
Wikipedia talk 17

When I (and many other) speak as to lack of project related edits, I(we) generally are referring to contributions to Wikipedia (talk), Help (talk), and/or MediaWiki talk.Personally I like this area to have at least a few hundred contributions, as it shows willingness to work in areas that admins are needed (e.g. xFD's, support pages, and Wiki Projects).Of course, quality is much prefered over quantity on all contributions, and is generally heavily considered.By counts alone, your numbers in these areas are a little lower than most successful admin nominees, but not horribly so. — xaosflux Talk 02:58, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kosovo again

It's sad that you no longer find the streght to protect the Kosovo article from all the vandalism. More protection for me and Asterion (and maybe someone more) to do. I found the lack of time for my other works very disruptive and its sad that so much time has to go to the war mongers in the kosovo page. I hope you change your mind and will edit on the Kosovo aricle again in the future. I'm so sure I will NEVER stop protecting the Kosovo article. Now it's about morality for me. I will NEVER let them winn even do they will be too many in the future for me alone to stop. Take care and pozdrav Litany

Uuuu, tough words, Litany. You are not as insensitive and neutral to the issue as you like to claim at times. Impressive. Is it personal? What morality are you talking about? is morality for you = reverting anything pro-Albanian?:)))Ilir pz 15:57, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
Good morality for me is to not write pro-(country) facts of any kind. :) Maybe you could try it? ;) Litany
you say smth different and then do something different. Not sure your "facts" are so neutral. Never seen you "protecting" it from any pro-Serbian editor. Now tell me, "because they are civillized and neutral" and make my day. I need a laugh for today. Ilir pz 16:20, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
Good if I provide you with it. ;) And yes I have. Maybe you only see what you wanna see? I've re-written alot of edits from people with only IP numbers, claiming that the country is called Kosovo i Methoija, etc. BTW why not answearing what I wrote to you on your talk page? Litany
HRE, question, why would you let your two brothers use your account? Ilir pz 19:46, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
This is Edit War you want to have so many faces in Wikipedia. I have only one face with many numbers of IP (Not it!! I am maken a war with argument). If you thik that the edit war is going to be only in kosovo teritor you are naive or stupied. You have make all the pages wats hase do to with Kosovo full with propaganda and serbien mytologie.

[edit] The boring 'ol Kosovo article again

I have to admit I find pointless trying to discuss anything with Ilir and/or his Dardanv heteronym. There must be an interest on dialogue, which is clearly missing at their end. I will carry on restoring any content that gets deleted without consensus or explanation. Nevertheless, I understand how you feel. I am pretty much tired of Ilir's juvenile games too. You should know he has also been Wikistalking me recently, editing or reverting many other of my contributions to other articles. I assume he has got plenty of time in his hands or gets paid for it,a la Major Kahrs' psyops, I guess... --Asterion 19:17, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

inflammatory remarks, personal attacks,threats, and speculations...all ignored.Ilir pz 19:22, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Hey HRE,
Noticed your posts on leaving Kosovo alone. Check your userpage for a small encouragement ;-)
Also, if you (goes for Asterion as well) have any problem with any user, be sure to log the incident somewhere. If users start to behave improperly, they can and should be brought forward in an WP:RFC/USER, and such evidence is very important. Digging such info up after the facts is painstaking work. Perhaps such measures will weed out the valuable contributors and the disruptive.
Cheers, The Minister of War (Peace) 21:03, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
Heya,
Yeah the hotzone can get pretty hot. But dont be too afraid it might damage your rep. If anything, the hotzone is where users have a chance to excel imho! Admins have to enter them all the time.
About logging, indeed thats a good start. Of course I would prefer to talk it over with most users. However, with some there is no talking to be done, and if they violate WP:NPA or WP:CIVIL, we should definitely log that. If they have crossed the line we can immediately sanction them on WP:RFC/USER, or use evidence on WP:RCU. For example, you say that you are sure about some socks, but then the burden of proof is on you. What evidence do you have? For example, check out the post I made about User:WikiMB on KellyMartins talk page: here. Its a long list of evidence proving that WikiMB is a sock of Bormalagurski, and it was hard work.
I dont suggest logging their actions as an alternative to talking, but if you think that certain users are crossing the line and breaking policy, then you need to have evidence at hand if you confront them with that!
Cheers, The Minister of War (Peace) 08:14, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Kraljevina Crna Gora

I would be for another Kraljevina Crna Gora but the problem is that I think a democracy would be better because if you realize, there aren't that many Kingdoms around the world as they used to be and besides, if there was another kraljevina in Crna Gora, maybe Crnogorci would lead a revolt against the Kraljevina. Ever thought of that? CrnaGora (Talk | Contribs | E-mail)

[edit] WikiProject Montenegro

Hey HolyRomanEmperor, i would like to ask you a question. Would you like to start up WikiProject Montenegro, a wikiproject I thought of to help out Monenegrin-related articles. I thought that you may help since you vastly contributed and created many articles involving Montenegro and because we both gre up in Montenegro (Crna Gora). Well, think about it and let me know what you think. Ok, bye. CrnaGora (Talk | Contribs | E-mail)

[edit] Auuuuu

Evo, glasao sam za tebe da postaneš admin, ali sam šokiran da podržavaš nezavisnost Crne Gore... --serbiana - talk 22:50, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Pa Kosovo i Metohija je nasa. Sta hoce ovi turci--HashimLopa 20:23, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] not sure

Can't support your claim that Hipi and dardanv are the same. It is interesting the percentage 60% of certainty that you use :))). I would encourage you not to follow the technique of repulsing legitimate users by calling them sockpuppets. You are smarter than that I think. Ilir pz 23:30, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Mr HolyRomanEmperor, True I’m a new member, but I'm here to contribute to this article, I only started writing after reading the article very carefully with the discussion page included, don’t accuse me of making a throw away account with out even knowing who I am.The reason why I did not enter the discussion immediately is because I wanted to see what people were writing first.I think that all articles need to be neutral and factual what ever the topic is.I don’t see why you have a problem with me?Beharprishtina 14:07, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

HolyRomanEmperor, if you don't know what you wrote about me, than I have nothing to say, but I would like your cooperation, I’m only trying to contribute in a constructive way to the Kosovo article OK.Beharprishtina 18:42, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

DardanV is neither Hipi Zhdripi nor Ilir Pz. He is editing from the UK. I did my research and tracked some of the unsigned edits/sockpuppets to the London School of Economics. If the vandalism resurges in future, I shall be reporting him to their IT department for disciplinary action. --Asterion talk to me 00:09, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Note for admin

An administrator must be 100% neutral. Sorry, but you're not. --Aeternus 15:54, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

thank you Beharprishtina 18:54, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kosowo

Wie ich es sehe du kanns deutch. Wen ich in deine stele were, hate ich weit weg von Kosovo sache zuruck gehalten. Als erstes, du must die vorstelen das Kosovo wird unabhangig seine und alle deine "edits" unter dieser user name werden verloren gehen. Na ja, am ende das ist deine sache, aber du sollst es nicht vergesen ich kenne dich aus deutsche Wiki und beobachete was du machts. --LuneburgerHeide 22:57, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Good day

Hello, long time no see! Anything new?. I would need your help with user:Duja, he is constantly sending me messages where he is treating me, what should I do?. Damir Mišić

[edit] RfA

Hi HolyRomanEmperor, I have supported your nomination and added a note on Hipi Zhdripi's vandalism. --Asterion 11:33, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Corrected

Evo, dodao sam i mali komentar kako bi mi priznali glas, doduše, bićeš izabran svakako. Ipak bih voleo da mi objasniš zašto si za otcepljenje Crne Gore, ako mi daš dobre argumente, možda promenim mišljenje. --serbiana - talk 17:09, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

P.S. Vidim da si stvorio WikiProject Montenegro po mom šablonu WikiProject Serbia. Iako nemam ništa protiv, mogao si makar da prvo pitaš, radi pristojnosti. Pridružio sam se tvom projektu. Mogli bi da napravimo neku vezu između ta dva projekta. --serbiana - talk 17:11, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stjepan Tvrtko

Hi

Pleaes look at Tvrtko discussion page. Regards --EmirA 18:31, 23 April 2006 (UTC)


Hi, just wanted to let you know that I have placed neutrality on article on Tvrtko. Please read my comments. Btw Sretan Uskrs (sa kojim danom zakasnjenja...) --EmirA 21:20, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Userbox

Hi HolyRomanEmperor, I was about to vote on your RFA when I ran into the userbox "This user finds copyright paranoia disruptive". I hate having long lists of questions on RFA pages, so I decided to ask you here: what do you mean by having that userbox on your page? What do you see as 'copyright paranoia'? Regards, JoanneB 21:09, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Translations

In addition to this, the articles for Ogneslav Kostović Stepanović and Đuro Kurepa are greatly lacking, though I can't find their equivalents on other wikipedias. Antidote 21:24, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gracias

Thank you for your support in my recent RfA! 8)--Rockero 00:37, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your RFA has been restarted

Hi HolyRomanEmperor,

Due to the disgusting amount of ethnic-related bickering, I have restarted your RFA. I am also going to keep tight tabs on it. I am neutral as to the outcome, but I AM going to make sure that you are given a fair RFA. Linuxbeak (drop me a line) 02:29, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

HRE: I've added another question to your RFA. It's completely optional, as I've already cast my vote, however my position is rather weak and I'd like some clarification. Thanks. ⇒ SWATJester ReadyAimFire! 06:07, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks!

 Thank you for your support of the Article Improvement Drive.
This week Denmark was selected to be improved to featured article status.
Hope you can help…

Posted by (^'-')^ Covington 07:50, 24 April 2006 (UTC), on behalf of thethe AID Maintenance Team

[edit] My essay

You can download it here: [15], I'm handing it in today, but I might post it on the Macedonian language talk page, so I'd be glad of any further comments... - FrancisTyers 10:32, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your RFA

Heya,

Yeah, I can imagine its giving you headaches. I've been watching from afar until now, and it really is a mess. Linuxbeak is doing his best, but he's getting attacked for it as well. Not an easy RFA to say the least.

But abandon it... well, it depends. On one hand, the controversiality might be an opportunity to demonstrate you really are qualified. However, that will take some hard work, like adding extensive questions yourself on your controversiality or some such thing. But in the end it depends on how much you want it, and what you want to do with it. Being an active admin means dealing with a lot of controversy on a daily basis (not unlike the Kosovo article for example). Personally, I think you might consider the fact that being an admin might give you a headache too, as everything you do will be doubly scrutinised. It really depends on the question whether you would want to deal with that, or whether you would prefer to remain "just another" user.

Hope this helps. Cheers, The Minister of War (Peace) 15:33, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Ah that explains it! I had already seen the strange accusations that you were either a Serb or a Croat or Albanian, depending on the argument :-). Yes, it is rather sad that people would see that as betrayal. This, to my mind, is one of the core recurring problems with Balkans articles; in somebody elses mind, you're always pro-X or contra-Y. Its really tiring. Thats why I dont get mingled in them too much.
But considering your reply, you might want to consider writing your thoughts on the matter into your RFA. Pose your own question to yourself at the bottom, and explain how your seperate edits have gained you enemies on both sides! Show your neutrality, preferably with some good diffs!
Remember, although there are a lot of dicks out there, most of the editors here are good worthwhile editors who can see through all of the controversiality. But you have to show them where to look.
Good luck, either way you choose to go. Cheers, The Minister of War (Peace) 16:47, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
The first thing you should remember: ITS JUST SOME SILLY THING ON ONE SILLY WEBSITE. It has nothing to do with your life. This RFA matters only in the virtual universe of the Wikipedia, and aside from here, it is totally inconsequential.
This means you can easily do a few things. Retreat (cause its just a silly thing after all), just leave your RFA and see where it goes (cause its just a silly thing after all), or try to pull on it a bit and see if that works (cause its just a silly thing after all). Any choice you make is just fine.
And about the contributions: yes it is about your contributions. However, most people dont browse through them as much as they should, and even the ones who do maybe do not understand all the ins and outs of Balkan related topics. All I was suggesting is that one long explanation from your side (perhaps as an answer to a question you pose yourself) might be helpful.
But either way, I presumed you had a good nights sleep on it, and you've probably made up your mind one way or another. You're okay in my book either way. Cheers, The Minister of War (Peace) 08:39, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Hey thanks, and good work on the project, I havent been as active as I'd like on it though...Regards -- Banez 15:53, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please think twice

HRE, sleep over it and decide on this tomorrow. Abandoning would be agreeing with people who think that editing controversial topics make you unsuitable to be an admin. --Asterion talk to me 17:13, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Just revert your last edit on the talk page. Not too late yet! --Asterion talk to me 17:19, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Eng, Srb & Cro wikipedias on the history of S. Dalmatia.

I really can't be bothered to open an account on that public forum software and try to argue about it :) If someone notes something on Talk pages here, then we can talk. --Joy [shallot] 18:03, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re:Reply

As someone who's not familiar with the general conduct of the editor in question (he may quite well be a malefactor) I generally agree with his point on the talk page. The whole concept of the article as it stands, and certainly in its original incarnation, seem decidedly POV in that they intentionally destroy important nuances and qualifications. So I have trouble accepting his argument as pointless; however inappropriately he has conveyed it I would say he is dead-on. Christopher Parham (talk) 18:24, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

  • What came across on the talk page was that you dismissed his concerns as nonsense: "Whatever, I really have no time to deal with this kind of nonsence," "pointless and meaningless arguements." This was not, in my view, an appropriate attitude to take. Christopher Parham (talk) 18:38, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
    • As I said above, far from thinking his argument nonsensical, I think it was a dead-on accurate assesment of the article. Christopher Parham (talk) 18:55, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re:The confunsion over me...

I may not be the most eloquent guy, but I tried my best to be inoffensive by saying, "he is obviously a Serb, or simply subscribes to Serb POV" (bold added). With that said, I offer my apology if you did take offense. I'd rather not discuss the matter any further if possible. --Thewanderer 18:28, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Medule

Thanks for the tip. I really can't understand why this person is still allowed to freely vandalize all our hard work, I've reported him on numerous occasions, but no response from the Admins... I mean, just look at his edit history, every single edit is directed against Croatia related articles, inserting propaganda, factual inaccuracies, and flat out lies. And he doesn't even want to discuss before reverting! It's f***ing intolerable... This is the kind of shit that's destroying Wikipedia, it has certainly been extremely off-putting to me, to the point I've grown tired of logging in and seeing every single article that I contributed to vandalized by this cretin. And I'm absoulutely certain he's using sockpuppets to avoid violating the 3RR, but is dumb enough to slip up at times, so I've had him blocked for 3RR violations in the past.

Well, anyways, if you could help me put a stop to this vandal I would be most grateful, I simply don't have the energy to keep reverting his edits... I think EurowikiJ would be willing to help also, since he has had even more bitter rv wars with the guy than me. Let me know what you think. Thanks. --Dr.Gonzo 21:29, 24 April 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Query about copyright of material added to Stefan Vojislav

Hello, I was going to tag Stefan Vojislav as a possible copyvio, but I noticed that you were obviously an active and very productive editor so thought it would best to check with you first. It appears that the material you added to the article at the time of its creation can also be found at http://www.suc.org/culture/history/Serb_History/Rulers/Stefan_Vojislav.html where a copyright is claimed. I thought I'd better check in case you were the author of the material on the other website (or it originated from another free source, e.g. 1911 encyclopedia. If this is the case, then you may want to consider adding something clarifying this to the article's talk page. I'll watch this page so feel free to reply here (or on my talk page). Thanks for reading.- Politepunk 21:38, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My consolations

Looks like your RFA will probably not be successful. That is a shame--you definitely merit the mop. Still, I totally understand (and can relate with) how losing an RFA can take a lot out of you. If you take a Wikibreak (as you probably should), no one will think less of you. If you leave forever? Well, the project won't be as good, and the Internet will suck more. But whatever . God be with you, and happy editing! Matt Yeager ♫ (Talk?) 22:51, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikistress

I'm really sorry that your RfA is being so stressful.Please do not leave Wikipedia over it!Sit back and relax over some nice Espernaza coffee.Everything will be alright (eventually...). -- Natalya 00:57, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] COTW Project

You voted for Caribbean Sea, this week's Collaboration of the week.Please come and help it become a featured-standard article. -Scottwiki 03:36, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Edit Count

Hi PaxEquilibrium/Archive2,

I'm giving you your edit count, as I thought it might help you in your RfA. I used Flcelloguy's Tool, so the information is correct as of 08:14, 25 April 2006 (UTC).

And now (drum roll, please), your stats:

Statistics for: HolyRomanEmperor
(Permissions: N/A)
- Total: 5123 -
Main: 1978
Talk: 859
User: 100
User talk: 1928
Wikipedia: 172
Wikipedia talk: 17
Image: 22
Template: 31
Template talk: 4
Category: 7
Portal: 3
Portal talk: 2
-------------------
Total edits: 5123
Minor edits: 546
Edits with edit summary: 3005
Edits with manual edit summary: 2492
Percent minor edits: 10.65%*
Percent edit summary use: 58.65%*
Percent manual edit summary use: 48.64%*
-------------------
* - percentages are rounded down to the nearest hundredth.
-------------------

--Primate#101 08:08, 25 April 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Formatting of your RfA

Please remember that to preserve ordering of a numbered list, you must begin each line with a pound (#). Thanks! (Incidentally, sorry about the mess your RfAs have become. I'm afraid you're going to experience this forever and a day on Wikipedia if you choose to retain this SN. It's a damned shame.) —BorgHunter ubx (talk) 13:07, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Babel

In your Wikipedia:Babel is sh and I am sure you know "bs" more then sl and mk, way you diedent put that to.

[edit] Why?

Jesi li ti nešto ljut na mene? Ne odgovaraš mi na pitanja koja sam ti još davno postavio... --serbiana - talk 01:25, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Just another RFA thank you note

Dear HRE, I appreciate your vote and your kind words in my RFA. It has passed with an unexpected 114/2/2 and I feel honored by this show of confidence in me. Cheers! ←Humus sapiens ну? 03:14, 26 April 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Could you please...

..find more and varied sources when writing your current additions to the biographies of medieval Croatian rulers? Your current sources appear to be Serb-centered and you're thus destroying the balance of some articles (like Tomislav). I'm not saying your current additions contain factual mistakes, but just that such additions make the articles wander off their main topic - the rulers of Croatia. --Elephantus 14:28, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

OK. --HolyRomanEmperor 14:48, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
left a message for you at kosovo talk page.10xIlir pz 11:40, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I'm sorry this has happened to you

I'm sorry you've been blatantly attacked at your RFA. An RFA is stressful enough without cruel comments, so I can't imagine the stress it has caused you. Please hang in there.--The ikiroid (talk )(Help Me Improve) 16:54, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

OK, it's just that I've seen some wikipedians become upset about the way their rfa goes, so they leave the project. But I'm glad to see you aren't letting the trolls, vandals, and other sewer crap get to you.--The ikiroid (talk )(Help Me Improve) 17:05, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I want to second ikiroid's concern; I regret that you've been the target of a number of personal attacks lately. Thanks for staying with the project and refusing to become bitter over it. Tijuana Brass¡Épa!-E@ 04:31, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I doubt he's capable of becoming bitter :-). But then, he's maybe just too young... Duja 05:02, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
Heh, that's resilience, baby. Glad to hear it's rolling off your back. Tijuana Brass¡Épa!-E@ 06:14, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] re: list of .hr'ians

Vidi zadnju stavku na Talk:Croatia. --Joy [shallot]

[edit] Re: WikiProject Montenegro

Of course I haven't. In a million years, I would never forget about it. I check it everyday to see how well it's been doing. I even fixed the shortcut CrnaGora (Talk | Contribs | E-mail) 19:05, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I see that you haven't added the Template:User WikiProject Montenegro to your user page. Don't you think you should add it to your user page to show that you are participating to that WikiProject.
Well, I think you should add it.


This user is a member of WikiProject Montenegro.




CrnaGora (Talk | Contribs | E-mail) 05:12, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Duklja_1077.jpg

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[edit] Re: Medule?

Please elaborate, how has he been dealt with? --Dr.Gonzo 13:09, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Ok, let's hope someone will put a stop to this madness at last... I don't want to see him banned though if it isn't absolutely necessary. --Dr.Gonzo 18:00, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Naming in Kosovo article

I am against putting labels such as "Serbian Kosovo" and "montenegrin metohija" or "Albanian Kosovo". That is what I thought we agreed, HRE. Neutrality is not preserved when you put such labels. Hope you discuss FIRST, for Christ's sake, before you add in the future. I really hoped I can find a common language with you and some other.Ilir pz 20:45, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the comments in my talk page. The link, too. I replied there actually to your questions. What I was wondering was, why don't you write any warnings to Manojlo, whom you congratulated me for stopping from vandalising? I think it would help more if his compatriot explainst to him the meaning of wikipedia, and the difference from a forum where all swear at each other on national basis. I rely on your help here. I did my best when Hipi was going too far. Ilir pz 19:12, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
Additionally thanks for wikipedianizing new users, such as Manojlo, that is a good thing you did. Ilir pz 19:30, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Hi, thanks for your contributions. I made a few changes, but I'm not sure if I'm using the proper dialects and the correct flags. Could you check and perhaps sign as the donor. I didn't want to to credit it to the same people who donated them, as I may have written something extremely nationalistic :p I also think that, in the interests of avoiding clutter, to use only one (Cyrillic or Latin) version for each - probably based upon religious lines. Could you tell me if I've done it properly? Telex 17:01, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Хвала лепа на помођи, брате грађанине света. Telex 17:38, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I understand your point...

I understand your point, but I just find it useless for me. I know that many eastern European countries use it, however, I am not going to get anything out of it. Also, many people (Bosniaks and even Croatians (in Hrvatska)) view it as a connection towards Serbia, so they are trying not to teach their children. The point in the last sentence, is not specifically my view. The statement you (most likely) read on Emir Arven's discussion was out of rage, since I was "pissed off" on the whole issue with cyrillic and the Bosnian template. However, I do not want to get into an argument.

P.S. On a more important issue, does "Montenegrin"??? (Crno Gorski) use cyrillic or latin, the language template has been changed.

Thanks, Kseferovic 19:11, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

The Montenegrin language uses the Latin script, not the Cyrillic script. Only the Serbs in Montenegro use the Cyrillic and Latin scripts. Also, while I was reading Kserefovic's talk page, I saw something you put in. Why shouldn't Kserefovic be glad that he doesn't know Cyrillic? He's Bosnian, no duh. Bosnians don't use the Cyrillic script, only Bosnian Serbs do, because they talk the Serbian language rather than the Bosnian language. Have you ever thought of that? CrnaGora (Talk | Contribs | E-mail) 19:48, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
So I guess this means that the Montenegrin and Bosnian texts at my userpage are incorrect :/ Are you sure Montenegrins don't use Cyrillic (they are Orthodox Christians)? According to Bosnian language, there is a Cyrillic script for Bosnian. Telex 19:51, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
Oh my god, Montenegrins don't use the Cyrillic script for their language. I even know. I even heard of that on some websites. Orthodox Christians don't necessarily have to use the Cyrillic script. Also, Bosnian Serbs use Cyrillic and not all the Bosnians. Why, because the Bosnian Serbs actually talk Serbian rather than Bosnian. Who has ever heard of the Cyrillic script being used in the Bosnian language. You (Telex) might be thinking about the Bosnian Serbs and the Serbian language, not the Bosnian language. CrnaGora (Talk | Contribs | E-mail) 05:21, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Montenegro

Tell me, do you support the independence of Montenegro? Telex 20:06, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hej

Tacno, i ja mislim tako.

I looked at Telex's user page and found it funny, how you put "Selam Alejkum" in Cyrillic, not many people would do that. As a side note, from where (in SFRJ) do you hail from, I gave you my education/school information earlier on your discussion page).

Hvala, Kseferovic 20:46, 28 April 2006 (UTC) :)

I agree, why would people put Selam Alejkum, in Cyrillic. It's not a Slavic word, it's an Arabic word used by many Muslims. So, technically, there is no use for putting that word in Cyrillic. Also, Telex, change the Serbian flag to the Montenegrin flag in the Montenegrin translated version of what you said on the top of your page. CrnaGora (Talk | Contribs | E-mail) 05:28, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kosovo

I noticed you mentioned several things related to Montenegro, and how it was unconstitutionally annexed by Serbia, as well as issues related to church. And you justify those mistakes with the right for Montenegro independence. How about recognition of independence in Kosovo's case? I am very curious about your opinion. Ilir pz 20:57, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't like that you got involved in playing with population numbers, based on some facts from Serbian history schoolbooks. Please. You won't contribute much if you do that. That Muller guy you cited in Prizren population, he is mentioned nowhere, besides pro-Serbian sources. I googled for him. Then in the Kosovo population facts wiki, there is tons of fabrication of data, taken from Serbian sources. It is horrible, and not sure what it is contributing to. Propaganda?? Not good. Ilir pz 14:22, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hope you're not angry

...since it's been ages from me having last heard any news from you.

Regardz, nepTune 21:21, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Music

Is it true that one of your interest is music? It seems that your only interest are politics... --Aeternus 14:32, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

I think a lot of people are interested in Music. Probably, HRE can't find enough information on the topic. Also, maybe he's more interested in politics rather than music. CrnaGora (Talk | Contribs | E-mail) 05:33, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Plitvice Lakes (municipality)

Hi HRE, I created Plitvice Lakes (municipality) in order to stop the edit war on the National Park article. Please have a look at it at correct any obvious mistake and/or improve it if you can. Thanks, --Asterion talk to me 15:23, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Holy..

I have asked you. Are you a Serb nationalist. You have sayit NO. But your work in Kosovo artikels is saying :YES, I AM, and that A BIG ONE? - Hipi Zhdripi

You are one big RACIST, Hipi Zhripi. What is with you with Serbs, well, you Shqiptar. I'm not being racist about Serbs nor am I with Shqiptari. Also, how can HolyRomanEmperor be a Serb nationalist since he was raised in Montenegro. I think he's just finding too many Serbian sources and using them. If you have any Albanian sources, than gice him that. Otherwise, it wouldn't seem like he's being a Serb nationalist and a big one. God, what is wrong with you. Haven't you ever thought of that, Hipi Zhdripi. CrnaGora (Talk | Contribs | E-mail) 05:39, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
You direct personal attacks, and pronounce "Shqiptar" very well, CrnaGora. I hope that is not used in an offensive way, like Serbian nationalists address Albanians. If yes, remember to have a little respect, as it might be Albanians those who might help in your reaching independence in the voting soon to be held for Montenegro's independence, which I support. Bear up with people who are different from you, and don't judge them as "having something wrong". That led to several wars in ex-Yug, remember? Ilir pz 20:32, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, but he with his another user account is playen the dirty game. CrnaGora, I dont know who you are, but that is not importen. Importen is that since one and half year I am waching wat is hapend in English Wiki. At firs (Im kosovar) is normal that my interes was about Kosovo. With the time I wantit to know who is maken that. During this time I hawe watchit that is not in quesqion only Kosovo but more. The montenegro aricels wase putit in a darke courner of Wikipedia. With many serbian propaganda. I have watchit that for more than 3 months. During this time I have workit at Albanian Wiki. All the time every night I ave wachit. Nobody was interesting about the cernagora articel. Kosovo article was mostly protect. Beacose so many albanians dont accept the article in that way but they dont wont tolose so much time with Wiki. They see samthing is wrong trait one time and they see this projec als Serbian project and they dont interes more about thate. many of them dont know that this is not a Serbian Projeckt, but from the Serbian Propaganda they think so. We havet so many peopel in Albanian Wiki and they say to as that we are working for the Serbian Project. Beacose they have seet the project in english. I dident workit at Kosovo article , it was he with many user accounts. After I have startt to be preocupetit with this problem in praxis he hase startit to be iteresting for Montenegros aricle to come in the right light, how it belogs. I now he have workit wery well beacose he have another partner agais Hipi. Im not RACIST, you can call me RACIST you can calle me wat you want, I have my point of view ofcorse (I older than 7) but the way in wich I present my point of view I must at first know in wich please I present. Everything wat he has dont and putit ther, nobody is goint to se als serios work. Is stinking from propaganda, In my life I have seen better propaganda from Serbian seite. Sorry again, only wach the hisoris about the articles of the west balkan and at the end you are going to thing sombody wont to present this part of the World als Serbian part. But that is not going to work, not beacos I dont wont but the realty in this part of the world is speeken himself. Not that I am kosovar, but if I was a serb I m going to do samthing agains this PALLAVRA, beacose that is saying that the Serbs know oly to tale the Word "PALLAVRA". Tung -- Hipi Zhdripi. Dont forget I diden workit here, I have traid to finde out who know and who is writeng only to say that I have don samthig. PANONIA is workin and Holy.. is destroing not my work (beacose I diden workit here) PANONIAs work.

Now Crnagora you can see and understand wat is meaning to be a Patriot and Nacionalst. From souch peopel who dont know to make a propaganda but only is saying Serbia, Serbia, Serbia ... I m not a friede beacose for me als Kosovar he is duing a gut job. Is telleing the word Way? it was War in Kosovo? Way the kosovars dont like the Serbians from Serbia. This serbian propaganda is telling the World better than evry rezulution that the Kosovars must be Indipendent beacose nobody dont wont to live in one state with peopel who has lost the REALTY.

The only thing from my last action it was to finde two peopel wich is going to present the west Balkan how it belong in Wiki. Till now the best user account (I can not garantiet that they dont have more accounts) was PANONIA and Ilir, for the part of the Montenegro you was that.

[edit] Strange..

That is rather strange since you haven't crossed pathes that much.. Moe ε 15:53, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wat is wrong with this

Image:000 Serbia dhe Mali i Zi.PNG Kosovo is disputit territory that is realty. Kosovo is acceptyt from UN als disputit territory. Way dont you accept.--Zhdripi Hipi 03:46, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for Choosing Belgrade

 Thank you for your support of the Article Improvement Drive.
This week Belgrade was selected to be improved to featured article status.
Hope you can help…

Posted by (^'-')^ Covington 07:19, 1 May 2006 (UTC) on behalf of thethe AID Maintenance Team

[edit] Your RFA

Hi! Since your RFA netted 50 support and 49 oppose votes, there was no consensus and thus I had to fail your nom. It was controversial no doubt, and I suggest you perhaps try again after a few months when things cool down. Regards, =Nichalp «Talk»= 10:55, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kosovo or History of Kosovo

I noticed that you complained a bit on me removing some part of history from Kosovo wiki page. Since you insist on having all those details, I suggest we merge the Kosovo article with History of Kosovo. It doesn't make sense. There is discussion about Kosovo's economy long only 5 lines, and there are more than 200 lines of history, including how each emperor bred fines warriors, here or there. Just information about their formal dinners are not included. We either reduce the history, or just redirect readers to History or Kosovo, or this page is becoming ridiculous. If you check, there is more history in Kosovo page, than History of Kosovo itself. Let us do something about it, please! Ilir pz 20:28, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Oh and related to Hipi, I asked him to be a bit more tolerant. But I don't see how you are helping him be sending personal attacks like "don't speak like a Native American Chief". Try to refrain yourself from personal attacks. And "pallavra" is used to mean "only empty words". I think it is in spanish as well, "solo palabras" (just words) or somethingIlir pz 21:07, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

"Oh we're back in the Balkans again,

Back to the joy and the pain–

What if it burns or it blows or it snows?

We're back to the Balkans again.

Back, where to-morrow the quick may be dead,

With a hole in his heart or a ball in his head–

Back, where the passions are rapid and red–

Oh, we're back to the Balkans again! "

SONG OF THE BALKAN PENINSULA.

I suggest you read some interesting book by the great English writer M. EDITH DURHAM[16]. She wrote on all the Balkans.

the link above, and [17] also could be a good source for history. international writers, always. Ilir pz 14:13, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Will not be very active I wrote that in my main page today, but I will write it here, as I am having most correspondence with you laterly. I must apologize in advance, but I will be less active in the next three weeks to come, as I will be completing my thesis. I look forward to contributing with my work in the near future. Will drop by at times, to see new developments. But don't expect too thorough answers in this period. I rely on your neutrality, and constructive work.Best regards, Ilir pz 22:49, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Music of Kosovo

Is this Kosovo or Serbian music http://www.kosovo.net/music_kim.html-- Hipi. See this too http://www2.arnes.si/finearts/stibilj/shota.html

Listen the song without text:Marino oro (Mary's dance)

[edit] Montenegrin independence

Holy, how do you know that the Montenegrin independence referendum is going to succeed? I thought it hasn't taken place yet. Telex 22:43, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

It didn't. It's going to happen in May 21st. Don't you ever watch the news or check articles, Telex. CrnaGora (Talk/Contribs/E-mail/Edit Count) 01:17, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] pucam

...odkud?!--VKokielov 00:05, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hej...

Pitanje je malo nejasno frazirano. Ali ovako, ja koliko razumijem situaciju nece biti nekih ogromnih politickih i socialnih problema izmjedzu Srbije i Crne Gore. Isto tako ne mislim da ce doci do exzodusa u ovom slucaju. (It would be really insane if hundreds of thousands of people left after the referendum). Mozda ce se u dalekoj buducnosti migracija dogoditi.

Hvala, Kseferovic

[edit] Your RFA

Heya,

I see it failed. Too bad, though not unexpected. I think it's good you saw it through to the end though, it will prepare you better for a possible next time.

I think this time, many oppose votes had come from people who saw the notice on your userpage. If you remove it, I'll wager that a next time you apply for adminship, you will pass. but I can understand if you dont even want to be an admin anymore.

Anyway, see you around. I'm going on a rather long wikibreak.

Cheers! The Minister of War (Peace) 07:06, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] COTW Project

You voted for Fauna (animals), this week's Collaboration of the week.Please come and help it become a featured-standard article. -Scottwiki 09:33, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] da

zasto si ZA nezavisnost Crne Gore? --serbiana - talk 16:13, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Šta te briga tebi, Borise, što je HRE za nezavisnosti Crnoj Gori. On ima svoje razloge što je za nezavisnosti. Misliš li prvo nego što pišeš? CrnaGora (Talk | Contribs | E-mail) 01:20, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Portal:Montenegro

I agree with you on Portal:Montenegro. Thing is that we will have to work extra hard and keep constant watch on the portal. We will also need participaters. I think the participaters to help in the Portal should be the participaters in WikiProject Montenegro. Well, we're going to need some help though. Oh well, I'll think of some good stuff to put in the portal. CrnaGora (Talk | Contribs | E-mail) 19:01, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi HolyRomanEmperor, I have great news. I have created the Portal:Montenegro, though I think the layout and designs is bad. Damn, we have to work hard on this. Though I've got a lot of info on Montenegro. Bye. CrnaGora (Talk | Contribs | E-mail) 00:51, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
What are you leaving, HRE? CrnaGora (Talk | Contribs | E-mail) 18:56, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Ethnic Groups

Hi HRE.I noticed that you mentioned on the WP:EG Talk page that the Montenegrins are not on the project list.That list is really just a central reference for project members to compare the progress of various articles toward the project goal of featured status.It's not set in stone at all -- I add groups and update the record of different pages all the time! So, by all means Be bold! and add the Montenegrins to the list, along with any other groups you think the Project should include.Consider joining the Project too -- we could always use your expertise. Thanks! -Fsotrain09 20:21, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] hmmm

Jesi odgovorio na pitanje, ali ja nemam dovoljno znanja o toj temi da bih mogao da se raspravljam. Dakle, Srbija je uvek pomagala Crnoj Gori, kad je bio zemljotres u Budvi, i gomila drugih nesreća, nikad nije rekla Crnogorcima "snađite se sami". Kad je Crna Gora pomogla Srbiji?

Zatim, čitava situacija ispada tako kao da Srbija teroriše Crnu Goru, a jadni Crnogorci samo hoće da se odvoje. Videli smo kako su "hitro" reagovali na nesreću u Bioču (valjda sam dobar padež upotrebio). Neka se odvoje, možda će konačno Crna Gora pomoći Srbiji da skine jedan veliki teret sa leđa. Dakle, promenio si mi mišljenje, ali verovatno ne na taj način na koji si hteo. U svakom slučaju, hvala što si komentarisao o tome. Jesi li ti Crnogorac?

--serbiana - talk 22:58, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

Šta ti misliš, Borise? Jeli HRE Crnogorac? A jednu stvar, mora Crna Gora da bude nezavisna, što? Zbog toga svi oni stari republici što su bili u bivšu Jugoslaviju, su dobili nezavisnosti, a nisu Srbija i Crna Gora. I zbog toga, Srbi su slomili Crnu Goru i njenu istoriju. Zato ja malo ne volim Srbi zbog ovaj stvar. CrnaGora (Talk | Contribs | E-mail) 01:27, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Yugoslavia-Stub

Hi HRE, Please have a look as this WP:SFD vote and say what you think: [18] Regards, --Asterion talk to me 07:16, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Стари Влах / Stari Vlah

Hi, while I was looking for information on the Vlachs of Yugoslavia, I noticed that there's a region in Western Serbia named Стари Влах, which has an article on Serbian Wikipedia: http://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Стари_Влах It would be great if you would translate that to English. Thanks :-) bogdan 12:24, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Already started article yesterday. Though I didn't have time to translate a lot so I managed to translate a few things from the beginning. CrnaGora (Talk | Contribs | E-mail) 01:10, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] So...

...are you becoming an admin or not? --Aeternus 17:58, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Obviously he didn't. Didn't you (Petrit Augustini) check his failed RfA? I and a lot of people, well at least the people who support him, think he's perfect for adminship. Don't you? CrnaGora (Talk | Contribs | E-mail) 20:45, 8 May 2006 (UTC)


Hi! Just thought to say that you should not think that I don't care about your messages that you send me at my Discussion page, but the thing is that I don't have the time to answer them. You should therefore take no offence if you don't get an answer. I respect your oppinions; even though I don't agree with them sometimes. Best wishes Damir Mišić

[edit] Yugoslavia Redirects

Please be cautious not to double redirect... There are NUMEROUS redirects pointing to redirect pages you have added today. -- Jon Talk | Message.

[edit] Zastava

Nemam buno vremena da razgovaram svama danas (Holy i Serbiana) ali moj jedini problem je ako budemo razdvojili simbole. To ce samo nastaviti "split". Moramo napraviti grb (i zastavu) koje representiraju sve tri naroda, ali mora da je jedan grb. Vojska BiH-a ima sve tri znaka (simbola) koja su odvojena. To nece rijesiti probleme. Isto tako necu ja da ima grb ikakve "religious" simbole.

  • (The project is a good idea, except what do we get out of it. We should have done it when the flag was changing (we were young)).
  • Yo, the second proposal flags are perfect, everything else is nonsense, except maybe the first flag of the first proposal.
  • I'd rather have a flag from the second proposal than the current day one. What is sad is that when I visited Sarajevo (every year), people, of course, sell flags. I bought a flag that was upside down. Many people (even those who live in Bosnia) do not know the correct position of their country's own flag. That just shows how much people admire and respect their country's flag.

--Hvala, Kseferovic

[edit] Thanks

Thanks for your kind words, HRE. Sorry if I have not been very active recently. I am busier than ever at work at this time, and I have also started to diversify my contributions to wikipedia too. I hope you are well. By the way, I went to Zemun once —but can't really remember much—, when I was in Belgrade in 2001. I took a walk from Novi Beograd along the Danube. I only stayed for three or four days before moving on to Split via Zagreb. It was a good summer :o) --Asterion talk to me 21:51, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Nisam ljut, samo razočaran. Pozdrav, --serbiana - talk 23:43, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Boris, are you talking to me? Asterion talk to me 03:10, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] blocked?

You mentioned in Asterion's page that Ejte and Hipi and 7 sockpuppets were blocked forever. What did you mean by that? blocked how? based on what? could you redirect me to the decision page? greetz,Ilir pz 01:20, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I answered to you in Demographic history of Kosovo talk page. You are doing quite well, but I think you can get even more neutral. You still are misinformed about some things, which having in mind that you live in Belgrade, that kind information would be impossible not to be flooded by. Ilir pz 10:46, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
seems like he is not blocked after all.
Some interesting poll [19] you might wanna take a look at.
I noticed you added plenty in Prizren page. No discussion, no nothing. Or is it better to first add, and then discuss? Ilir pz 01:04, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Stephen

Hey HRE,

I suggest you ask an admin to mediate the dispute. Try going to WP:RFM. Are there any other admins that you know of? BTW, I really apprecaite all the hard work you put into Balkan-related articles. I know it's frustrating and stressful to be editing in such a controversial topic range. Keep it up! :) —Khoikhoi 05:19, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Da

Ja se slazim. Bosna i Hercegovina je prosla kroz jedan teski horor. Nacionalizam je unistio BiH. Ali ti koji su krivi su u Hagu, mrtvi, ili ce biti u Hagu. Tito je pokusao da uvede novi narod "Jugoslovene." Ali kasno je krenuo.

Hej, sta se radi ako imas vandalizam na diskusiji stranici?

Kseferovic 22:36, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

HRE, imao sam visoko mišljenje o tebi. --serbiana - talk 00:46, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Aha, shvaTam. --serbiana - talk 23:18, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Glas

Ajd molim te glasaj ovdje [[20]] gusto je. Unaprijed ti zahvaljujem. Pozdrav! Luka Jačov 10:21, 12 May 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Smile!

Asterion talk to me has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Smile to others by adding {{subst:smile}} or {{subst:smile2}} to their talk pages. Happy editing!

[edit] Čujemo se/vidimo se

Povodom recentne svađe sa userom C-c-c-c, odlučio sam se definitivno povući s Wikipedije. Naime, nakon hrpe njegovih uvreda na račun usera Ilir pz (uključujući user-box na njegovor stranici koji je više nego degutantan) i nazivanja hrvatskih usera ustašama, sinoć sam izgubio živce pa sam ga izvrijeđao. Ipak, nisam učinio nikakvu uvredu na nacionalnoj osnovi i to mi je izrazito drago jer bi bilo krajnje jadno da me je u afektu doveo do razine neandertalca pa da se kasnije moram sramit i da još uvrijedim nekog ni krivog ni dužnog. Budući da mi nije jasno kako još uvijek nije kažnjen iako se oglušuje na upozorenja i sam miče upozorenja sa svoje stranice uz pogrde u komentarima (a ja imam onih upozorenja od prije mjesec dana i najradije bi ih maknuo, ali ne želim jer igram fer, bar mislim), razočaran sam. Nadalje, postoje anonimni ljubitelji fašista i ustaša iz Hrvatske koji povremeno vandaliziraju stranice o ustašama pa mi to samo otežava moju poziciju budući da me oni koji me ne poznaju vjerojatno trpaju u isti koš sa njima.

Sve skupa dovodi do toga da se želim povući pa me zanima kako se to radi? Šta trebam napravit sa svojom user stranicom? Kakvu napomenu trebam staviti?

Inače, budući da se više nećemo čuti na Wikipediji, nadam se da ćeš se javit kad se vratiš u Hrvatsku i nadam se da ćeš to jednom napraviti pa da odemo na kavu/pivu ili šta već piješ.

Želim ti dug i zadovoljan boravak na Wikipediji.

Jakiša Tomić 12:34, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Holy NO

No no no no absolutely NO. I never had a problem with you, and even if I had, it's not my style to be grumpy about it! I'd tell you in the face! Like this: I like you too man! NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 20:22, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hey...

So could you tell me what colors to use for Austria and Switzerland. I put Yugoslavia as gray, but I do not think that Austria and Switzerland should be placed as gray. Maybe a different color?

Newer correction
Newer correction

What colors should I use for Austria and Switzerland?

Kseferovic 21:46, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

There, I think that this should do it. I thought that yellow and pink were too bright for a map like this. So I used a darker tone of gray with some blue-green.
Kseferovic 03:42, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] CamelCase

Hi. Please avoid using CamelCase in articles ("TransSavian") when not directly quoting outside sources or trademarks. From the article on camelcase itself: "CamelCase is rarely used in formal written English, and most style guides recommend against it." Thanks. --Elephantus 08:19, 16 May 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Bosnian croats and serbs

No, emperor you got me all wrong, what I ment to say is that so-called Bosnian Croats and Bosnian Serbs are, in deed, bosniaks of christian religion. However, Serbs from Serbia and Croats from Croatia are "real" croats and serbs - they even stem from the very same place (indoeuropean irania). But the people in Bosona, the bosnians, have a different - much more - complicated history than that. I would say, after having read as much as I have, that about 90% of the bosnian croats are catholic bosniaks; and that about 50% of the bosnian serbs are orthodox bosniaks. We all know for example how the remaining 50%, "real" serbs, came to bosnia; that is when the turks ruled and brought them there to work in mines and such. This is nothing unfamiliar for the serbian people, they have allways been moved around for other peoples' interests; another example is the Austrians who moved the serbs to eastern croatia where they were to establish a "human shield" against the turks further down south. I thought you knew this my friend. These figures are ofcourse generalisations, but in broad outline, this is how things are. Damir Mišić 17:15, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Croatophobia/Anti-Croatian sentiment

Hi, I notice that you already wanted to nominate the article Anti-Croatian sentiment for deletion. I have done so for Croatophobia, which is on the same subject, and has neologism problems. I feel obliged to let you know that there is a debate going on there. I believe that if the article Croatophobia is to be deleted, Anti-Croatian sentiment should go too. Also, if it is not deleted, these two articles have to be merged, since there is no need for two articles on the same subject. Rockie21 00:47, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hey...

Is it true that Albania is ahead of Bosnia and Serbia on the entry into the European Union. For God sake, Enver Hodza screwed them up for soem 40 years by closing Albania's borders. Albania couldn't export nor could anyone inport. Even today if you want to use a cellphone in Albania (i.e. T-mobile). It costs one 4.99 USD to roam (if you are comming from the US) in Albania. Plus you cannot use internet on the phone (One cannot use GPRS (GPS)). In Bosnia it costs 1.99 USD and in Serbia it costs 2.99. Both Bosnia and Serbia have GPRS (GPS) capabilities. Anyways, what I was trying to get with this is that Albania does not have any strong infastructures. There is no way that they can be ahead of the game from Bosnia and Serbia. (Opel, the car company does not even have a website for them in Albanian). They are still behind than us.

Websites:

(Select Country and then you'll see)

(You can see that there isn't any websites for Albania)

[edit] Request for Comments on Borovo Selo raid

Please add your statement on views at the top of the talk page in the designated area. Asterion talk to me 05:32, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hey HRE

Did you see that I did write you on my talk page? Why diden't you become an admin? I thought you had a majority of the votes? Take care - Litany 12:14, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hey...

First to tell you about the map. The map was designed for the article Iron Curtain. As you probably know, Churchill coined the phrase "Iron Curtain". Anyways, the "Curtain" was refered to as in Europe. We are not speaking of different alliances around the world. A map that shows the whole world could be made and placed in a different article (if it doesn't already exist).

Now we should all, if not already, see the links for the films on my discussion page. Not to make this a commerical for Google Video, but their new formats are zipped in order to fit a 2-3 hour film in about 600 mb, not bad huh.

Hey, I also saw the movie the Da Vinci Code. I think it's a great movie, just like the book. Did the movie come out in Belgrade, where you are currently staying, the same day (19 May). It was said that it was supposed to come out on the same day (worldwide).

Now for the Kosovo issue. I take a neutral stance when it comes to the seperation. My reason being is that I need some information on how all the disputes began and why.

It's ok to use my discussion page, since I find it amusing reading from both sides.

Thanks, Kseferovic 14:26, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you for welcome

Will read up on the links provided.

Cheers, croatian_quoll 15:25, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Montenegro

Do you have any idea what's going to happen to Montenegro? --Telex 12:03, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

So you think that there's no possibility of the Montenegrin government falsifying the results (they do that even in the UK). --Telex 12:12, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Crnogorski Referendum

Ja ne zivim u Podgoricu, nego u Toranto, Kanada. Ja bi otisao u Crnu Goru da glasam za nezavisnu, ali nemam vremena da glasam. Ja jesam interesovan za Crnogorski Vikipedija. Ja sam probao da pravim CG.Wikipedia, ali to treba puno vrijeme da se zavrsi sve. CrnaGora (Talk/Contribs/E-mail/Edit Count) 13:55, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nezavisna Crna Gora

Čestitam te na nezavisnoj Crnoj Gori! Puno sreće! CrnaGora (Talk/Contribs/E-mail/Edit Count) 20:44, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

I hope you're happy. --serbiana - talk 22:23, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

A sto se tice crnogorske Wikipedije, najveca glupost koju sam ikad cuo. Pre svega, crnogorski jezik ne postoji, to je samo dijalekt srpskog jezika. To ti je kao britanska, kanadska, australijska Wikipedija - glupost. Samo sanjajte. --serbiana - talk 22:24, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Same here, I'm slightly afraid. I'm currently watching RTCG transmissions on RTV BN. CrnaGora (Talk/Contribs/E-mail/Edit Count) 23:06, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Онамо, 'намо... за брда она, говоре да је разорен двор мојега цара; онамо веле, био је негда јуначки збор.

Онамо, 'намо... да виђу Призрен! Та то је моје - дома ћу доћ'! Старина мила тамо ме зове, ту морам једном оружан поћ'.

Онамо, 'намо... са развалина дворова царских врагу ћу рећ': "С огњишта милог бјежи ми, куго, зајам ти морам враћати већ'!"

Онамо, 'намо... за брда она казују да је зелени гај под ким се дижу Дечани свети: молитва у њих присваја рај.

Онамо, 'намо... за брда она, ђе небо плаво савија свод; на српска поља, на поља бојна, онамо, браћо, спремајмо ход!

Онамо, 'намо... за брда она погажен коњ'ма кликује Југ: "У помоћ, ђецо, у помоћ, синци, светит' ме старца - свјет вам је дуг!"

Онамо, 'намо... сабљи за стара његова ребра да тупим рез по турским ребрим'; да б'једној раји њом истом с руку рес'јецам вез!

Онамо, 'намо... за брда она Милошев, кажу, пребива гроб! Онамо покој добићу души, кад Србин више не буде роб.


IZDALI STE KRALJ NIKOLU,NJEGOSA I MARKA MILJANOVA Dzoni 01:58, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: ?

Cao Holy,

Sta ima? K'o sto mozda znas, bio sam u USA 2,5 mjeseca (nedavno sam se vratio), a posljednjih mjesec dana bas i nemam puno vremena da wikipedisem, nego se tako s vremena na vrijeme zaletim da odradim ponesto. Ne ignorisem te, ne boj se... ostajemo dobri? Duja 07:04, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Ma opušteno. Zna se šta će biti. ;) --Pockey 15:37, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Ma, i bosanski jezik je glupost. To je samo mesavina hrvatskog i srpskog. U Republici Srpskoj ionako pricaju srpski, Hrvati u Bosni pricaju hrvatski, a bosnjaci nece ni jedno ni drugo, pa mesaju. Zvanicni jezik Austrije je Nemacki, a ne Austrijski, Crnogorski se nikako ne razlikuje od srpskog ijekavskog, mozda samo dve, najvise tri reci. Zasto ne bi i Vojvodjani rekli da imamo razlicit jezik, u Subotici se govori drugacije nego u Beogradu, ne kazemo dorucak, nego frustuk (od nemackog), pa niko ne filozofira da se odvoji jezik od srpskog. To ti je citava poenta dijalekta. Dakle, Crna Gora sada hoce da ima sve originalno, nista od Srbije, pa cak ni jezik kojim govore. Ali dobro, uspelo je bosnjacima, zato imaju samo osam hiljada clanaka na wiki, dok srpska ima preko 30,000. A vecina clanaka sa bs wiki je prekopirana sa sr wiki. E sad, uskoro ce se na sr wiki moci menjati tekst iz ijekavskog u ekavski (vec moze sa latinice u cirilicu i obrnuto), cemu poenta stvarati novu Vikipediju koja ce samo prekopirati sve sa sr wiki, pratiti skorasnje izmene i kopirati, pocinjati sve ispocetka bi bilo vrlo sporo, a ISTI JE JEZIK! Ajde makar jednom i ti priznaj da nisi u pravu. Sto se tice Makedonije, nisam upoznat u situaciju i ne bih komentarisao. --serbiana - talk 18:42, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

P.S. definicija en wiki za bosanski jezik: The Bosnian language (bosanski jezik) the official name for the Serbian language in the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina. definicija en wiki za crnogorski jezik: Montenegrin language is the name given to the Ijekavian-Štokavian dialect spoken in Montenegro. Sve je to srpski.

[edit] Re: I'm glad

A šta ćeš kad sam narkoman. :) Jakiša Tomić 18:52, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Oh, for God's sake!

Same here, I've been attacked by Dzoni and C-c-c-c. What's with these people. CrnaGora (Talk/Contribs/E-mail/Edit Count) 19:01, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Funny, I basically got death threats from you.:)) C-c-c-c 21:27, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I još jedna stvar

Zamolio bih te da više ne lažeš mene i druge korisnike na ovoj Wikipediji, mom prijatelju si napisao "Ne slazem se s tim. Ja sam protiv ikakvih mijenjanja granic bivse Yu. --HolyRomanEmperor 15:42, 9 May 2006 (UTC)", a meni si napisao "I am supporting the independence of Montenegro. --HolyRomanEmperor 20:39, 21 April 2006 (UTC)". Mislio sam da si pametan i razuman, ali sad vidim da si običan lažov. Prijavi me za personal attack, ne interesuje me, ja sam rekao svoje. -- serbiana - talk 20:15, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Јел ово истина HRE? ...И ја сам мислио да си ти био против.Значи лажеш.. Krytan talk 20:37, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] KOSOVO i SANDŽAK

Serbia and Montenegro does not exist anymore.. it is over.. we have two countries now - Republic of Serbia and Republic of Montenegro.. Kosovo is a part of Republic of Serbia and Sandžak is part of both R. Serbia and R. Montenegro.. get it? you should really watch news..

User: Cro ed

No, it is not Serbia right now.It is Srbija i Fruška Gora. Krytan talk 23:09, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Heard a true story, something related to what Krytan said at the top. A man was driving in an Audi A6 Quattro (I think this was the car) in Montenegro. The police stops him. He asks him his opinion of the referendum (though I'm not sure if this is what was asked). The guy in the car said that Montenegro will be called "No Name" and Serbia will be called "Srbija i Fruška Gora". Man, I cracked up when I heard this. Crna Gora (Talk/Contribs/Edit Count) 01:57, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] TLD

Hi, at present, the ccTLD for Serbia and Montenegro is .yu. In the future, when Serbia and Montenegro are seperate, do you know what the country code will be? --Telex 11:01, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

.kl for Serbia and .wt for Montenegro

Are you sure about this??? I thought probably Montenegro will change its ccTLD to either .go, .cs, or .me, and Serbia will keep the .yu ccTLD. Not sure, really. Crna Gora (Talk/Contribs/Edit Count) 01:59, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kosovo's history

Hi HRE, I was going to propose that the looooong part of the history of Kosovo we append to the already existing History of Kosovo article. Whenever you add Kosovo article it always complains that is far longer than the preferred size of the document. Instead in Kosovo page we could insert a link to History of Kosovo. What do you think?..oh and I am reading the thing you wrote on my page. I still do not know where you got that info. Are you suggesting I should trust what YOU wrote? there are many facts in it, and I think you should cite a bit, with all respect to your knowledge about those facts. Let me know about the suggestion in the beginning. Regards, ilir_pz 20:17, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

you did not answer my question. ilir_pz 19:59, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Do you read what I suggested above, HRE? You still do not answer to my suggestion. By the way, I commented in a few parts in my talk page. Take a look at it. Some parts were familiar, as I also know plenty about ex-Yug. ilir_pz 21:14, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I had a remark on the Demographic History article. You added some suspicious source. Read in the article's talk page about my suspicion. ilir_pz 21:30, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

HElloooo, HRE?!? Do you read my first paragraph in this section or not? I even made it in bold. What is wrong? ilir_pz 08:41, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please help on Mathematics

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[edit] Vojvodina

I was arguing because some facts were wrong, and others in the wrong concept. I only wished to achive better standard of the pages (which after my discussions had improved). Ceha No:) Honestly I don't remember about what it was:) I think there were some errors about neighbourhoud nations which lived/live in the Vojvodina, and about theirs contribution to its history (for example Croatian ban Josip Jelačić was born in Petrovaradin, and he was un important ally to Serbian Vojvodina in the war of 1848/49. There were also some minior errors, for example, map of banovinas is from 1931 not 1929 (at that time Sremska Mitrovica was part of Drina banovina) etc. But most of it was corrected, so:) Ceha

[edit] For Christ's sake...

Have a look at this. It hasn't taken them long: [21]!EAsterion u talking to me? 23:07, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mapa Crne Gore

Misliš na mapu po opštinama? (U Crnoj Gori ne postoje okruzi). Pa mogao bih nacrtati tu mapu, ali ja nemam podatke u vezi toga. Moraš mi dati podatke za svaku opštinu, pa na osnovu njih mogu nacrtati mapu. Međutim, pošto još nisu objavljeni konačni rezultati, bolje da sačekamo konačne, pa da onda to uradimo ako se slažeš? Jer možda se dotle nešto i promeni. Što se taskbara tiče rešio sam to, to je neki program koji sam tog dana instalirao pa mi je on zezao taskbar. :) PANONIAN (talk) 19:55, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok, mogu to nacrtati, ali tek za 2-3 dana, jer sada imam nešto drugo u planu da uradim. Nego, jedno pitanje, pošto si mi rekao koje su opštine glasale za nezavisnost a koje za SCG, da li je u svim opštinama rezultat izglasan natpolovičnom većinom (iznad 50%)? Bez obzira šta je izglasano, ali me zanima da li je svugde iznad 50% ili je negde recimo 49% za jednu opciju, 48% za drugu i 3% nevažećih listića? Ima li negde takav slučaj? PANONIAN (talk) 22:46, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] CG (Montenegrin) Wikipedia

Hey HRE. I've put up a request for a Montenegrin Wikipedia (CG Wikipedia). If you want the vote, hears the link, meta:Requests for new languages, It'll say Montenegrin (Crnogorski) on the table of contents. Bye Crna Gora (Talk/Contribs/Edit Count) 04:07, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Zastava i grb

Zastava i grb Vojvodine nisu protivustavni. Ustav ih ne propisuje ali ih ni ne zabranjuje. Pošto su trenutno i grb i zastava u službenoj upotrebi na teritoriji Vojvodine, nema razloga da ih i mi ne koristimo na taj način. PANONIAN (talk) 13:57, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Pa stvarno ne znam odakle ti ideja da simboli Vojvodine nisu službeni, ali to je pogrešna informacija. Pogledaj na primer ovaj link:

Odluka o službenoj upotrebi zastave je napisana u Službenom listu Autonomne Pokrajine Vojvodine, br. 2/04, Novi Sad, 02. 03. 2004, i prema tome je službena. Što se tiče mape Paganije, nemam neku detaljniju mapu od one što sam nacrtao. Imaš li ti neku detaljniju mapu Paganije na osnovu koje mogu nacrtati novu? PANONIAN (talk) 16:51, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok, videću šta mogu da uradim sa tom mapom Paganije, naravno moraćeš da sačekaš nekoliko dana da nađem vremena za to. PANONIAN (talk) 14:35, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hipi again

Hi HRE, I noticed your comments on Hipi's talk page. I actually realised he still had that slandering comment about you and me on his userpage. I deleted this evening as it was a personal attack. I hope he will not reinstate it. He is possibly a hard working editor in the Sq.wikipedia but he should do the right thing and leave the English one for good. EAsterion u talking to me? 23:27, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Man. wann wills du Millosheviq line verlassen. Die Millosheviq idiotizem ist zum tode verurteilt, wann, wann wills du das checken. Wenn ihr diese line verfolgen wollt, morgen werdet ihr aufstechen und sehen das "eure Serbia" ist Belgrader Pashaluk geblieben. And stop placen the Millosheviq propagander in Kosovo article. The table it was maket not fom me, but from the competed peopel witch are working in Kosovo. They are maken maken a big project with this table. If you are so interesst in Kosovo articlewhay you are not stoping the serbians vandal [22]. Ah, only Hipis work is for you importen, heheh. Go and take your reserved user name like in Wiki commons --Hipi Zhdripi 23:40, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Hipi, I do not speak German. Are you replying to my message above? I simply ask you not to restore the attacks on me and HRE you wrote on your userpage[23]. You should stop accussing people of being sockpuppets. That link you put above shows an IP from Oslo (see http://www.ripe.net/fcgi-bin/whois?searchtext=129.240.156.72). So if anything, it may be from Ilir pz. So, please stop pointing your finger at other people. What do you mean about "reserved user name"? Have you tried to take it up for yourself in order to impersonate? Sorry, but I cannot think of any legitimate reason of why you would be checking that sort of things. EAsterion u talking to me? 23:53, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

HRE, here goes Hipi again with his attitude problem: [24]. It seems you and me are the same person, according to his last smearing campaign. All because I asked him to behave in a civil way and leave you alone. Isn't that funny? EAsterion u talking to me? 00:46, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

HRE, Essjay does not think it is a good idea. IMHO, it is completely unnecessary, considering that the source of the accussations has been completely discredited because his own behaviour. I would suggest you could also ask Dijxtra for his opinion as an admin. Cheers, EAsterion u talking to me? 13:12, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
HRE, I'm keeping my eye on the situation. If he carries on, please let Dijxtra know too. Thanks, EAsterion u talking to me? 07:20, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

For adding the various dynasties to my user page. :) --estavisti 23:44, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pitanje

Hey HRE. What question did I not answer to you? Also, do you have MSN (I mean MSN or Windows Messenger) or do you have Yahoo! or AIM? Crna Gora (Talk/Contribs/Edit Count) 03:00, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

Thank you, my friend. Bomac 14:54, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hej...

Hvala Vam na poruku. Cuo sam za Bosnjake u Sandzaku ali imam pitanje. Hoceli ovo pokrenuti akcije u Kosovu da se i oni odvoje? Znam da je autonomna pokraina, ali vec sad je pod UN-om. (Is the Montenegrin Referendum official or not) Ovdje na Americkim i BBC World TV-stanicama su najavili da je sve zvanicno proso referendum.

Hvala, Kseferovic 18:00, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mapa CG

Evo, uradio sam mapu Crne Gore, ali sam video da me je neko već preduhitrio i uradio istu takvu. Na prvom linku je moja, a na drugom ova druga:

PANONIAN (talk) 23:30, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

  • E, nego, što se tiče simbola Vojvodine, čitao sam nešto danas u novinama o tome, i simboli Vojvodine i simboli Republike Srbije su usvojeni prema potpuno istoj proceduri, i ni jedni ni drugi nisu još 100 posto službeni. Ipak, pošto se i jedni i drugi koriste kao službeni moramo ih kao takve uvažiti. Drugačije bi bilo da se ne koriste kao službeni, odnosno da se koriste izvan institucija. Međutim pošto ih koriste institucije, oni jesu službeni, bez obzira što procedura njihove službene upotrebe nije potpuno dovedena do kraja. PANONIAN (talk) 12:30, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Montenegrins?

I'm not well familiar with montenegrin history, but I've allways thought they were ethnic serbs and that "montenegrin" term was regional? I will not, however, deny anyone's right to a history and identity but to say that "montenegrins" are a people separate from the serbs is hard to believe. But as I said I don't know much, apart from that montenegro wasn't heard of before 18th century and that montenegro historically is Duklja. Damir Mišić 22:34, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Privlaka peninsula - part of Boka Kotorska or not?

Hi,

I see that you deleted some info I added. You might be right, and if You are, please explain it on talk page. See my edit. --Ante Perkovic 08:58, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

OK. I will make necessary changes to the article. --Ante Perkovic 09:32, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please help on Ancient Egypt

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Posted by Pruneau 18:46, 29 May 2006 (UTC) on behalf of the AID Maintenance Team

[edit] Mapa i popisi

Evo, uradio sam mapu Paganije, stavio sam je u članak Pagania, pa je pogledaj. Uradio sam je prema onoj koju imam u istorijskom atlasu, tako da možda ne izgleda baš 100 posto kako si je zamislio. Što se tiče popisa stanovništva u Boki, pa imam knjigu gde postoje rezultati sa više popisa (na primer od 1857 do 1910), ali su podaci na drugim popisima slični kao i na ovim koje sam napisao u članku, tako da nema potrebe da ih sve pišemo. PANONIAN (talk) 21:39, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Blnguyen's RfA

Hello Holy Roman Emperor. Thank you for your support at request for adminship which ended at the overwhelming and flattering result of (160/1/0), and leaves me in a position of having to live up to a high standard of community expectation. If you need any admin assistance, feel free to ask me, and naturally, if I make any procedural mistakes, feel free to point them out and I look forward to working with you in the future, Blnguyen | Have your say!!! 06:49, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Help needed

Help needed on Zlata Petrović. I am fluent in Russian, and could tell from reading srpskohrvatski google results that she is notable with published albums, but my skills are not good enough to find and include notability info. Would you be able to do that please? - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 16:37, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

While you're at please, please take a look at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Milos Miljkovic to make sure that I'm right. - CrazyRussian talk/contribs/email 16:38, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Шта мислиш....

да направимо Serbs шаблон, по узору на {{Jew}}? Видим да се ради на Serbs of Croatia, Bosnian Serbs etc па било би добро да људи могу лако да "броде" од чланка до чланка. Могли би ту да укључимо и неке српске земље, и земље где су Срби (били) значајна мањина. Уз то, могли би стваити ту све категорије из {{Serbian culture}}. Tell me what you think and I'll make a stab at putting it together. :) Е да, пре но што заборавим, у догледно време требали би имати Serbs of Hungary, History of the Serbs of Central Serbia (ил' слично), да издвојимо Херцеговце из Bosnian Serbs итд. Ал засад, шаблон! :P P.S. Ako ti je lakše preko mesedžera, baci svoju adresu na moj talk pa možemo preko toga... --estavisti 17:43, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Pitanje

Evo mi odgovor za tvoje pitanje. Izvini što nisam dao tebi moj odgovor na tvoje pitanje. Moj odgovor: Njegoši su Srbi, ja mislim, ali su isto Crnogorci zato što su po rijeklo Crnogorci. Ti bih ovo vidijo na Serb clans artikal. Njegoši su Srbi zato što oni imaju veze sa Srbima i zato što oni su Srpski Pravoslavni ko su pristalije "Partiarch of Peć". Isto kažeju na website-ovi da su Njegoši Srbi. Isto ovo vidiš na "Serb clans". Oni su ustvari Crnogorski Srbini. Eto ti moj odgovor. Ovo je šta ja mislim i stavio sam upućivanje da ti pomogne da vidiš ovo šta ja mislim. Ja mislim da možeš ti da ovo vidiš na http://www.njegos.org . Sad mi daj tvoj odgovor na sve pitanje (one pitanje kuje nisi mi dao odgovor) što sam tebi dao onu prethodnu nedelju. Crna Gora (Talk/Contribs/Edit Count) 05:34, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

Nisi dao odgovor na moje pitanje na User talk:HolyRomanEmperor#Pitanje. Crna Gora (Talk/Contribs/Edit Count) 19:06, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pagania

Hi HRM,

I have reverted to my last edit & modified reference to King Kresimir IV reign over the other duchies.I have also read that apparently in the Chronicle of the Priest of Dioclea , it mentions Croatian king Kresimir ruling over his people in White Croatia and Bosna but that he did not aquire Red Croatia until later , and only parts of it.


In the discussion section, I have explained why I have kept the reference to Red Croatia. There are other sources that cross-reference the account of the Chronicles of Duklja vis a vis Red Croatia.In light of conflicting information from different sources, it would be presumptuous to call the Narentians definitively Serb or Croat.

Hence the revrting to my previous edit which employs the neutral term of Slavs whilst accomadating the respective sources that attribute ethnic affiliation.

Please refer to discussion section.

[edit] Re:Referendum

Ja se nesikiram oko Republike Srpske. Ima kao svugdje fanatika, itd. Srbija i Crna Gora su imali drzavnu zajednicu. Republika Srpska je entitet kao i federacija. Oni nebi mogle da se odvoje. Cak i u ustavu pise da nema prava. Ako bi doslo do toga onda bi morala cijela BiH da ide na referendum. Ustav neda referendum. Ali pod clankom 74, cjila BiH bi morala glasati za referendum (actually for the seperation). Nije tek tako lagano. Crna Gora je i prije bila samostalna drzava. Ona ima/imala 100% pravde da se odvoji. Isto tako nije svaki Srbin u Republici Srpskoj za referendum. Ima ljudi (Srba) koji kazu da bi referendum opet doveo rat. Ima budala koji kazu da je bolje ako su 3 male drzave nego jedna cijela!!! Tako se isto desilo SFRJ-u. Lakse svijetu da kontrolise 6 drzava nego jednu jaku Jugoslaviju. Ustavni sud Bosne i Hercegovine je rekao da RS mora promjenuti grb, zastavu, i himnu.

From bs.wikipedia.org (Wikivijesti):

  • 1. juni (2006) - danas - Direkcija za reformu policije donijela jednoglasno prijedlog o uspostavi policije na državnom nivou. Ovim prijedlogom entiteti gube nadležnost nad policijskim strukturama u zemlji.

It is becoming better and better day by day...

Pozdrav, Kseferovic 21:19, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

HRE, видио сам шта мислиш да ће бити на сљедећим изборима у ЦГ, на тоукпејџу Ксеферовића, па ме интересује: Када ће бити ти избори? Знам да су посљедњи били 2002., па ускоро, ваљда?--estavisti 14:09, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mapa

Pa postoji mali problem sa onom mapom. Možda ne znaš, ali ta mapa Srbije po popu Dukljaninu je davno bila na Vikipediji i onda su se hrvatski i bošnjački korisnici bunili da je to velikosrpska propaganda. Zato sam i nacrtao ovu drugu (na osnovu one koju imam u istorijskom atlasu), a pored toga tačnost te druge mape je moguće obrazložiti. Kad bih sad nacrtao ovu po popu Dukljaninu, optužili bi me za velikosrpsku propagandu a i ne bih mogao da dokažem njenu tačnost, jer se pop Dukljanin smatra izvorom koji nije verodostojan. Inače kao što rekoh, ta mapa je bila već na Vikipediji (i to više njih takvih) i sve su ih obrisali, uključujući i onu koju je nacrtao jedan korisnik i koja je bila javno vlasništvo. Znači, ne bih baš da se upuštam u takav poduhvat, ali ako smatraš da ta mapa baš treba tu da bude, probaj sam da je uradiš. Zaista nije teško, samo ti treba Photoshop program i malo slobodnog vremena. Možeš i onu mapu po Porfirogenitu koju sam ja uradio da prepraviš i da je ubaciš pod drugim imenom, samo ti kažem da ćeš ako to uradiš imati problema sa izvesnim hrvatskim i bošnjačkim korisnicima. Ti odluči kako ćeš. PANONIAN (talk) 00:13, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Sori sto smetam, ali sam slucajno vidio i ovo :)
Ono sa cafehome/abd12ct.htm je vec bilo na en: i opis problema je na Talk:History of Bosnia and Herzegovina#pictures_recently_uploaded_by_Jwalker_and_ARD, Image talk:Abd12ct.gif, Image talk:Cpw10ct.gif, ali nazalost kako su slike obrisane, i ove dvije orphaned talk stranice su isto tako obrisane kasnije pa ih se ne moze vidjeti ako nisi admin. Ako je potrebno, mogu sadrzaj pasteati negdje. --Joy [shallot] 17:02, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Sto se tice mape, sugerirao bih ti da sam pogledas sto pise i nacrtas skicu preko neke bianco mape. Ona mapa sa SerbianCafea moze biti poticaj, ali ne i osnova za stvarnu mapu. --Joy [shallot] 20:20, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Pa evo, Joy ti je isto rekao za to, šteta je što su te strane za diskusiju izbrisane zajedno sa mapama, a ako se dobro sećam bilo ih je 4 ili 5 takvih. U svakom slučaju razmisliću još da li da uradim tu mapu ili ne, to mi ipak uzima slobodno vreme, a nemam baš volje da radim nešto tako kontroverzno što će biti predmet sporenja. Ako se ipak odlučim da to nacrtam (što ne garantujem), prepustiću tebi tu mapu da dokazuješ njenu tačnost. Inače, ne smatram da bi oko te mape toliko pravili problem hrvatski korisnici koliko bošnjački (Ipak je Bosna tu u pitanju). :) PANONIAN (talk) 01:18, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re.

Yes, I've red the book. The facts are presented in the rightful way.

About Cvijic - yes, he is respected in Macedonia, since he sees the Macedonians as a distinct group (which they are). Bomac 09:06, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] hint

I've noticed the long list of historical person articles listed on your user page, and I have a wish :) please describe Hrvoje Vukčić if you know something about him. --Joy [shallot] 16:54, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Da, da, svi Kosače su zanimljivi, i Stjepan i Katarina i Sandalj i vjerojatno jos tko god fali :) --Joy [shallot] 20:22, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Ah, vidi, već ima članak od Thewanderera, moram samo redirect napraviti. Nemam pojma je li to ispravan pridjev ili ne, članak izgleda OK sad. --Joy [shallot] 21:09, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Inace sad sam skuzio da i Kosace imaju clanke, ali fali jedan grupni. --Joy [shallot] 23:39, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Zahvaljujem

... na dobrodošlici. --Sannya 11:42, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ilir

Don't worry, every single encyclopedia in the world is wrong, including Britannica, Encarta, Columbia and even the CIA Factbook. Ilir's got to win at any cost, it seems. I wish I hadn't come back but after seeing some bullish behaviour at Template:Kosovo I could no longer keep quiet. Well, off to bed now. EAsterion u talking to me? 00:43, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removing warnings from talk pages

You said that removing warnings from talk pages is not allowed. Can you give me a link to a policy that says that? I'd love to enforce that rule, but I can't find it... Thanks --Dijxtra 16:25, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Mhm... this policy page is changing so rapidly that I can't be sure which version will be online in next 5 minutes. But, even if you take a look at current version, it says that removing warnings might be vandalism. But, what I just found is this: Wikipedia:Removing warnings. This page reflects the current situation which is: there's no policy. But, I'm glad to see that we have a discussion going on and I'll join it right away. --Dijxtra 20:15, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mape

Kao što rekoh, razmisliću još u vezi ove mape po popu Dukljaninu. Što se tiče mape Crne Gore po jeziku, to mogu da uradim pod uslovom da mi daš podatke o jeziku za svaku opštinu, jer ja imam samo podatke o nacionalnoj pripadnosti. PANONIAN (talk) 20:11, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Eh, pa ne bih baš rekao da podaci o jeziku pišu u svakom članku o crnogorskim opštinama. Evo ti samo par primera: Kolašin, Mojkovac, Šavnik. Ja ne vidim tamo podatke o jeziku. Imaš li neki drugi izvor za to? PANONIAN (talk) 14:09, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Renaming

Check here and let me know what you think. Your opinion is appreciated. ilir_pz 00:52, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your Ethnicity

Could you please tell me your ethnicity? User:Nexm0d

Holy is a Zlatiborian and his mother tongue is Zlatiborian ;-) --Telex 18:23, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Are you Serb or Croat?

I'd say it's quite impolite to request that information. --Dijxtra 15:05, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Evergreen montenegro

Well I don't know why I used "", mostly because your user name is something of a nickname. I didn't mean anything bad. And regarding the web site you provided I haven't choosen sides, I just wanted to be open minded towards the new user to get him to express his oppinions in a free way without anger. And sure there are good parts to read at the website but as I said before I am not familiar with the whole deal so how could I possibly say that everything said on the website is true, I can't even if I would like to. And sorry that I forgot to give my oppinion but I simply forgot to - this wikipedia thing is perhaps taking up more time than it should :) Damir Mišić

[edit] "Serb/Croat/Bosniak" History Categories

Could we please stop adding these categories to any topic that is somehow related to Serb Croat and Bosniak history? I have no problem with adding this category to people and events that are strongly associated with the history of a certain people and their development throughout history, but adding them to miscellaneous medieval royalty is, to me, senseless and just opens the door for controversy and needless debate. For instance, I have nothing against posting the category "Serb History" on the articles about the battle of Kosovo and Vuk Karadzic or Bosniak history on the articles about Ef. Causevic and Husein Gradascevic, but posting such categories on every medieval ruler that ever ruled in our region is just unnecessary. I'd encourage you to recategorize articles in those categories, because the current situation seems ridiculous to me. Live Forever 18:04, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

(Also as reply to Holy): I'm with Live here. This is all extremely touchy and will (and did) certainly cause controversy. Without entering into debate who was whose ruler and of which origin (because I don't know, don't care too much, and it's doomed to be edit-warred per each article), I suggest simply removing categories (History of Serbs/Croats/Bosniaks) from all articles where it might be controversial. Category:History of Bosnia and Herzegovina suffices. Duja 09:01, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Montenegro

You are obviously well familiar with montenegrin history, which I on the other hand aren't, but I must admit that I have always thought montenegrins to be a clan of serbs: the so called doclea-serbs (karadzic), opposed to the rascia-serbs (milosevic) - only kidding :) But they are doclea-serbs or at least must of them say so - and the other serbs are rascia-serbs I guess. Damir Mišić

slobodan's montenegrin too? damn those docela-serbs, oh pardon I mean montenegrins. Just joking :) If the montenegrins wan't to be free and separet then everybody should let them do so. Self-determination is every man's right. Damir Mišić

[edit] Re: Ministarka

Mda, javili su i u ovdasnjim medijima naravno. Budale vrlo lako dobiju pozornost. Steta samo sto 40ak posto glasacke populacije nije dovoljno briga za takvu prirodu radikala :/

Ovdje nije bilo takvih izljeva u zadnje vrijeme. Kod nas i budale idu u Europu, i naucili su sto znaci "hate speech" pa se klone toga :) --Joy [shallot] 19:15, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Sto mislis...

Pa, eto, mala sestra se konacno okurazila. Neka ih.

Oni koji se brinu da ce srpstvo propast zbog jos jednog razjedinjenja se ipak prave naivni - svakome tko malo mucne glavom je jasno da je dugorocno to vise kao regionalizacija nego separacija, kad ce za max 15 godina ionako i velika i mala sestra zavrsiti u Uniji.

Inace, zbijaju se vec zgodne sale i posalice na temu nezavisnosti... mora covjek odati pocast Srbijancima na sposobnosti za to, neumorni su :)

--Joy [shallot] 19:20, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Boka

Pa ja ne vidim da se moji i ovi drugi podaci razlikuju. Ono što si ti prevideo jeste da se moji podaci za 1900 odnose na OPŠTINE, a oni drugi u odeljku "Croats" na sama mesta. Dakle, ako je opština Herceg Novi imala pravoslavnu većinu to ne znači i da je grad Herceg Novi isto imao pravoslavnu većinu. Pored toga, austrijski popisi nisu beležili ljude po nacionalnoj pripadnosti već po veroispovesti, tako da je navodni broj Hrvata 1910 godine u stvari samo broj katoličkih vernika, jer ne postoji podatak o nacionalnoj pripadnosti na tim popisima. PANONIAN (talk) 19:34, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Pa kažem ti, broj katolika na tim popisima se uglavnom uzima za broj Hrvata. Tek Jugoslovenski popisi posle 1945 beleže nacionalnu pripadnost. Doduše, austrijski popisi su pored veroispovesti beležili i jezik, tako da se možda može videti broj ljudi koji je izjavio da govore hrvatski, ali ja te podatke o jeziku nemam. PANONIAN (talk) 20:05, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
Pa imaš popis iz 2003 o njima. I to je nešto. :))) PANONIAN (talk) 20:10, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
Pa šta ja tu mogu da uradim? Ja sam stavio podatke koje sam imao, a za ove druge podatke moraš pitati onoga ko ih je tu stavio. Ja nemam sada vremena da tražim podatke o Hrvatima u Boki, ako ti imaš vremena, traži ih, i popravi u članku šta god misliš da ne valja. PANONIAN (talk) 20:33, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re:

Hey HRE. Come where? What are you talking about? Crna Gora (Talk/Contribs/Edit Count) 19:41, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

Never mind0, I see. What is your username for msn though. Mine is CrnaGora12@hotmail.com See you on msn. Crna Gora (Talk/Contribs/Edit Count) 19:51, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
I knew you were twelve...haha.:) C-c-c-c 03:58, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Don't have ICQ, though I have AIM Crna Gora (Talk/Contribs/Edit Count) 20:07, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reply

Iam Montenegrin Australian...i was born in Australia. My grandfather on my dads side came from Perast to Australia but went back and forth few times. His kids including my father arrived in Australia in the 50s. My granfather died here in Australia. Dads side have always been catholic. My mum is from Tivat also catholic and has a blood link with Montenegrin Ivica Kralj, Yugo goalkeeper. They have always been proud Montenegrins and most of all Yugoslavs in Australia. Only after the war in the Balkans broke out did i question what my real background is. I started asking around and quickly found that we were Croatian on both sides. Our granfather told us that Boka region was settled by Croats and that Serbs came later. I have only been twice to Boka once in 1986 and the other in 1988. Both times i found it a little boring haha. Today i say as i have all my life ...Iam Montenegrin background....going back we can all trace our origin to Africa or even Adam and Eve...i just can't see myself changing my identity today by what my blood line was in ancient history, very ancient. I have only taken an interest in the Balkans when i could see the Serbs vs Croats debate on the net. Very silly when you think about. People out there are trying to change history and have come up with some sources that are made up or just pov. Iam living proof and i know what my grandad told me is fact...he lived there and he loved Montenegro. If he was around today he would hate that were even debating origin.


Evergreen Montenegro1 23:52, 7 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] ZAŠTO

Why are you looking for information on Boka??? Ask the Montenegrin people themselves, they will tell you. Most sources are rubbish....trust me ..too much theory not enough fact... The Serbs have gone to great lengths to change the history of Boka and i would say most people have bought it. I guess they had the fear that Croatia sooner or later would try to claim this region back. As silly as it sounds same goes for trying to Serbanise Croat people eg like Ivo Andric and Rudjer Boscovich. Some Serbs have gone to great legths to try to make everyone Serbian and i have seen it first hand here on wikipedia. If you give people power to edit here and freedom to print rubbish in books you finally end up with a wrong historical account with heavy Serbian Pov. When an outsider reads both sides they can only say WHAT THE??? as i often do.

Leave history as we know it. Bosnia was settled by Croats who coverted to Islam. Montenegro was settled by Serbs. Boka was settled by Croats. This is ancient history but today is anotehr story and another debate. and SURE all along you had people who called themselves Montenegrin and Bosnjak..which adds to confusion.

Evergreen Montenegro1 03:24, 8 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Mountain Wreath

What is this ???? Mountain Wreath . Tell me more please or give a link. The one you gave is too long to down load


I love how you're listed a Slavic ancesty..

Evergreen Montenegro1 06:06, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] shocked

Saying that Albanians (living above river shkumbin) are closer to Serbs than Croatians are, in any way is more shocking than anything I have heard from Serbian wikipedians eversince I stepped in this environment. If you must know, the only thing that differs Albanians above and south of Shkumbin (and might somehow connect Albanians and Serbs) is that those in Kosovo (some) still speak Serbian, and those in Albania do not. Your explanations are just....I do not know. I thought you have a more NPOV, but seems like you are just another victim of all sorts of Serbian propagandas, and adopted history books to brainwash Serbs. I am disappointed as much as shocked. I saw in you a more neutral, and smarter editor. Pozdrav, ilir_pz 09:38, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reply

He is a walking contradiction, so what do you mean he has a point?--Jadran 11:52, 8 June 2006 (UTC) whats exactly his theory? that the people within the AVNOJ borders of 1945 are actually all Bosniaks who turned away from there loyalty to illyria?

dont you think its rather naive way of thinking, not only in regards to the obsudidty that illyrians of Dalmatia and Pannonia provinces( which exstended over the modern borders of BiH) would deny there illyrian loyalty for a new"bosniak/bosniak" one? But also the fact that Bosnia province was only 20 percent in size(vrhbosna) of what it is considered today so therefore how can the inhabitants of people within the modern AVNOJ borders of Bosnia herzegovinabe called bosnian..even in a geographic sense let alone a ethnic sense..considering those regions were not even apart of the then much smaller region bosnia..eghum..hercegoviuna? strange dont u think?

[edit] POLL

No, no, no, not what you think! This time is for something that all of us need:

Improvement of the <ref> function.

Please weigh in at Wikipedia talk:Footnotes#Poll! NikoSilver (T) @ (C) 16:52, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ...

Sori, izgubio sam se. Zasto si ono sve meni rekao? :) Usput, neki dan je Jutarnji objavio pola stranice raznih kontroverznih izjava crnogorskih politicara iz 1990ih... ali dobro, valjda nitko nije sumnjao da i tamo politicari ne operiraju po principu sette bandiere. Ne znam, to mi je sve tako tangencijalno, nek rade sta hoce, ionako je to samo par tisuca minor edita da se promijeni ime drzave. :) A i korisno je cisto zato sto sam primijetio par clanaka o povijesti gdje je SFRY bilo greskom zamijenjeno sa SCG, pa je cak dobro da imamo izliku da pregledamo i ispravimo takve stvari. --Joy [shallot] 22:41, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Nemam blagog pojma je li koji od .hr ministara ne-Hrvat. Nije im bitna nacionalnost, samo je bitno da su HDZovci ;)

Ne znam na sto mislis pod ovo postovi i Dujino... --Joy [shallot] 17:08, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Andric, Boscovich

Holyman,

I thik if you look close enough all the posts that support your view are Serbian pov.

1)Rudjer Boscovich is a Croat by his father and Italian by his mother. Now to say he was Serbian is just politics. Don't believe it. Base the view on facts not Serbian pov. Trust me even all the x Yugos are laughing why the Serbs are even debating it. This man had no Serbian blood at all.

2) Ivo Andric was Croat (or Bosnian Croat to be correct). He had no Serbian blood but he had a love of the Serbian people and the language. It's a bit like Nikola Tesla a Vlah Serb but he did say he was Croatian and mentioned it, but we know he wasn't Croat. Same thing. You need to look at blood, i guess...I can say Iam an Alien too, but am I one hahaha.


I ask you why are people out there debating ones origin??? What does one get out of Serbanising all Croats in some shape or form????.... I think this is a huge problem and i have seen it done on wikipedia and countless other sites. Give people the power to print rubbish and edit sites they will do it....

Why ???? Why change the facts???...Why fool yourself??? Man when you think about it this problem will never go away. Some people out there are hell bent on changing historical facts to better Serbian people. Not all Serbs though, just a select few with a creative mind and heaps of time on their hands. Serbs have Tesla why do they need Andric and other Croats...Tesla was a superman.

PS Re Montenegro........who knows 100%..depends who wrote the book...so many takes but in general there is a common view like i said in my old posts. Common view must have merit. New theory is like the DaVinci code...sounds realistic but is fiction for the most part.

Evergreen Montenegro1 23:48, 8 June 2006 (UTC)


Ja sam mislio da je Ivo Andrić stvarno Srbin kad sam ga ja vidio na Portal:Serbs i na famous Serbs. Sada znam da je on stvarno bio Bosnanski Hrvat. Kuku, ovi Srbi su stvarno nešto. Mislite ovo? --Europa22 04:14, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Anti-Serbism

I thought everyone knew! I get my information through either maknews.com, or special coded communiqué's from the Macedonian Ministry of the Exterior. But sssshhh, don't tell anyone! Can't you tell by the way I'm always pushing for the Macedonian POV?! :)) PS. Did you see the vote going on here? - FrancisTyers · 14:16, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kosovo

Dear editor, I removed one of your comments/votes in Talk:Kosovo#Comparison of versions so far, because it was not according to the rules that were clearly stated in the top of that section. Please note that this is not a vote, but rather an inquiry of opinions. Unargumented votes or personal attacks on the writers rather than the contents of their proposal are not allowed and will be removed. Feel free to add another comment, according to those rules, however. Cpt. Morgan 15:17, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

If you feel that I have a negative attitude towards you, I apologize :). I certainly did not have that intention. In this case, I removed not only your comment, but also 2 others (see the Kosovo talk page history). In the earlier comment, I guess I was getting a bit annoyed from the highly flammable discussions, which have been going on for a long time. I am still trying to negotiate a solution though and I welcome any comments on the contents of the proposals and any ideas for solving this dispute. Cpt. Morgan 15:29, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

P.S. In the case of the other removed comments, I posted the almost exact same paragraph in their talk pages. It is just a general paragraph for this purpose. Cpt. Morgan 15:37, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bosnian grammar

See [25] --Dado 15:26, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] House of Petrović

Hi HRE,

While on Recent Changes Patrol, I realised there is an edit war going on about this article. Someone is changing Serbian to Montenegrin. As I am unfamiliar with the subject, I decided to refer the matter to you. Regards, --EAsterion u talking to me? 20:45, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re:

Yeah, I understand that you can't vote on it, HRE. Though, I think it will become a language. Crna Gora (Talk/Contribs/Edit Count) 03:09, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Hello, have you ever heard of other languages having those letters. Also, Wikipedia has javascript letters on the bottom, so you can type: Ś (sj) , Ź (zj) , 3 (dz) Crna Gora (Talk/Contribs/Edit Count) 17:03, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Piracy

Hi, I see you posted on Piracy with some ideas about ancient piracy, I think you should go ahead and add them since you obviously have some good knowledge! --Awiseman 07:33, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] help with Neo-Nazism in Croatia please

Please see Talk:Neo-Nazism in Croatia and tell me if I'm being unreasonable or just beating my head against the wall with people who don't accept compromise. --Joy [shallot] 11:14, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

::: If you have time, pls review my rewrite of this article for NPOV.Note I have requested two other people to do the same just to get a cross-section of peer review. Thank you croatian_quoll 10:30, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Welcome

Um, thanks for the greetings at my discussion page. Although I'm not really that new to wikipedia, I still appreciated the welcome and tips. thanks.

Zastavafan76 21:47, 11 June 2006 (UTC) Flag of Serbia

I see you've met my Serbian/Montenegrin freind, Jatroxoursox (this is the name from a forum we go to). Hehe, this dude and LukaP know a lot about aviation, apparently. He also knows a lot about cars, which I know a little about.

Ok well I guess your right about how everybody needs a welcome. Thanks

Zastavafan76 20:38, 12 June 2006 (UTC) Flag of Serbia

[edit] Thanks!

Hey!

Thanks for a barnstar! Funny thing, I received while being blocked :).

--Ante Perkovic 15:12, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re:

Trust me, we don't look desperate. Even if you did, I doubt anybody would notice. Don't worry about it. Crna Gora (Talk/Contribs/Edit Count) 20:16, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Community Ban

Hi HRE, I would appreciate another opinion on this matter [26]. Thanks and regards, --EAsterion u talking to me? 22:01, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hi

Hello HolyRomanEmperor. May I ask you, from where do you descend from? I'm from Montenegro. Milo 03:07, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Srbi u Bosni

Hm, što se tiče onih podataka iz "Demographic History of Bosnia and Herzegovina", tu opet imamo problem sa teritorijom na koju se podaci odnose, jer tamo piše da su to podaci za tadašnji "Bosanski Sandžak", koji nema nikakve veze sa sadašnjom teritorijom BIH. Mislim da je problem sa tim člankom što neko želi da prezentuje podatke o stanovništvu Bosanskog Sandžaka kao podatke o celoj BIH (a to bih ja nazvao manipulacijom). Sasvim je moguće da je u Bosanskom Sandžaku bilo manje pravoslavnih nego muslimana i katolika, ali Bosanski Sandžak je bio samo jedan okrug Bosne. Da bi se dobila slika o celokupnom stanovništvu onda treba uzeti podatke iz svih tadašnjih sandžaka, pa bi se onda dobila prava slika stanovništva. PANONIAN (talk) 21:44, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

Imaš ovde mapu sandžaka u Bosni u to doba: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Bosnia_17th_century.jpg Iako granice na mapi nisu najbolje nacrtane, možeš videti otprilike šta je bvila teritorija tadašnjeg Bosanskog Sandžaka i koji su delovi današnje BIH pripadali drugim sandžacima. Inače, granice između sandžaka su se često menjale, tako da oni podaci iz "Demographic History of Bosnia and Herzegovina" sigurno ne predstavljaju stanovništvo na sadašnjoj teritoriji BIH, već samo na području tadašnje pokrajine "Bosanski Sandžak". Inače ono tamno zeleno na mapi je "Bosanski Vilajet", dok je "Bosanski Sandžak" bio samo cetralni deo tog vilajeta. PANONIAN (talk) 21:52, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Pa od ranog srednjeg veka su Srbi uglavnom živeli u Hercegovini i istočnom delu Bosne, a tek sa dolaskom Turaka sele se na zapad i naseljavaju Bosansku Krajinu, severnu Dalmaciju, Liku, Kordun, Baniju i Slavoniju. Na ovoj mapi možeš videti da su dijalekti kojima govore Srbi sa tih prostora usko povezani sa dijalektima Hercegovine: http://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0:DijalektiStok.jpg PANONIAN (talk) 00:36, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
Pa dobro, činjenica je da su Srbi u 16-17 veku živeli na području Bosanske Krajine. E sada da li je muslimanskog stanovništva u gradovima u to doba bilo više nego srpskog u selima, to je sasvim moguće. PANONIAN (talk) 22:31, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] NIJE SVE CRNO BELO

Like i said before i have called myself what my family has for many generations. Montenegrin. End of story. Now that we have a county I think i can say it with pride. What we were before Croats, Slavs, Iranians, Serbs, Illyrians, Turks..is a huge ????? Nobody is 100% pure anything let alone Croat or Serb. We're all mixed but we can just point out what people where when they came to the Balkans and how they settled areas. There are records to support this theory of Croats in Boka, it's just Serbian POV to close it and hide it from the public eye. Why I will never know??? I have only discoverd it now. For the record..Please.... Tesla is Serb, Boscovich and Andric are Croats to say anything else is stupid, you know it and I know it. I have debated the origin of Marco Polo, I think he was Croat yet this view is unpopular with Italians. I can understand that some people are fueled with some notion of Greater Serbia, we're all Serbs etc......there is some truth in it after all Croats and Serbs are so mixed it's just like Adidas and Puma..same thing just went a different way...You must agree ay champ. I think we're judging people on ancient things. Let's get along after all i think we're in the same Chroba. Our arguing would be endless and pointless ..neither could win. Evergreen Montenegro1 03:24, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What do you want to know -Boka Kotorska

sure no problems what exactly do you want me to explain?--Jadran 06:36, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Politika

Greed for power - politics - dreaming of being like on tv shows Dallas and Dynasty. This is why Yugolslavia had its problems and to tell you the truth West prefers all little countries than a big Yugoslavia. They also prefer the Soviet Union in bits. When i went to Montenegro and other parts of Yugosavia in the 80s all people got on well, mixed and respected one anothers religion and views etc.... Politika and people at the top made all the trouble...told people lie after lie...and we all bought it...I know there is some truth to "Greater Serbia" but they only wanted what was best for everyone... Belgrade to control all and not have rotation system in politics/rule...and maybe if Serbs got what they wanted in a peaceful way maybe all would be living in agood debt free Yugoslavia.Today we have small counrties, we will all do it tough, but we will be ok. India has 100 languages ...Yugoslavia had 4 and fell apart, tells you a lot about the people. I like what Rade Serbedjia said in one movie -Broken English- playing a Croat he said to a New Zealander "You will never understand it"...refering to why Serbs and Croats don't get on....even i find it hard to understand, how can an outsider.. (I gave you anothe reply on my talk page)

Evergreen Montenegro1 23:51, 14 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] 1914

I read it again.... The view is common. I sort of agree anyway as i said before many times. Montenegrins have a link with Serbs. But flip the coin and you will find some evidence out there that says there is another tribe who came before Serbs to Balkans and later called themsleves Montenegrin and this tribe came 6th Century, way before Serbs who came 7th Century. I guess it's also possible over time those MGs mixed and became Serbs as the Serbs were stronger better organised when they arrived. Much like today Serbia by population of 11 million is much stronger than any other x Yugo country. It would be so easy to force the hand in those days over Montenegro who was weaker and smaller (like today). I have no problem with the theory anyway but i do have a problem when Serbs say they also settled Bosnia and Boka when we all know Croats did. When we talk of Greater Serbia that does include Bosnia and trying to Serbanise all Croats. I guess you can see it first hand when Serb people discuss origin of Andric and Boscovich as being Serb, when we all know they were ethnic Croats etc... but Croats do the same whith Tesla saying he was Croat when we all know he was Serb (or Serb/Vlah to be correct) Too much propaganda and people buy into it as fact. Even this document you showed me, I bet a Serb wrote it.


Panonian recently told me most Croats are Serbs...funny thing is it's also possible that Serbs are Croats as the name Hrvatska (version of name) is older than Srbija (version). Many people believe in the theory that they are the same people..travel was identical ..both slavinised from Iran etc took up new religion at same time.....

PS Sorbs and Serbs and Siberia have no relation... Just simular name.

I think with names like Ivanovic, Markovic, Petkovic etc...which are found all over the Balkans + versions like Ivanov, Ivanovski..proves we're Slavs ...all of us...we're mixed with Slavs...before that who knows...Iran is possible...before that...it goes on forever and maybe back to Africa...it's just crazy. Evergreen Montenegro1 03:59, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Good Luck...i have had enough of the debate over origin. Take Care.. Evergreen Montenegro1 03:59, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Language

Perfectly percolated coffee, Esperanza's own blend.
Perfectly percolated coffee, Esperanza's own blend.

For all the languages you speak have a cuppa on me. And hope you have a healthy and meaningfull life. Bon voyage. Enlil Ninlil 04:10, 15 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Holy man - Good man

My dad is from Perast, mum from Tivat - both Montenegrin Yugoslav. hahha Boscovich Serb ...c'mon some history books also say Tesla was Croat American, but we both know Tesla is Serb in origin and those books have it wrong, don't trust Britannica.Boskovic is Croat by last name and by origin no doubt, take my word for it, to say he is Serb is just bollocks. I did read once that he did lie about being related to Serbian nobilty for some reason but he was found out, not sure of full story but i think this is where the Serbs get the so called facts, but it was proven he was from a poor Croat family and not Noble Serb one. Who cares, Boscovich is known as Croat/Italian..let it go.. I think the main problem is Boscovich name is found on Serb currancy and buildings etc..so Serbs need to push this Serb pov. I see a lot of Serbs on the net trying to come up with Serb Nationalist theory on all famous Croats and Croatia.....These people should be blocked from Wikipedia.

Re Marco Polo...many sources eg Yule and many Italians wrote about him being Dalmatian and not Italian...there is evidence right or wrong..non bias evidence is there...most articles on Marco Polo do mention his possible link to Korcula and Croatian origin, this is no new Croat pov...I mean the reason its come up more in forums now is the fact before under Yugo to say you're Croatian got you locked up. You couldn't call Marko Polo Yugoslav could you hahaha...catch my drift.. The documents are interesting and i will need to study them more before i shoot my mouth off. I knew a Serb wrote them. Like i said many times before there is some truth there.


Something tells me, LOGIC tells me we're all the same people just took up new religion and settled new areas...if this is the case ..why are we debating origin and why are we fighting????

You have made some good points Holy man, they might be unpopular with some but i think they are close to the money

I agree with Panonian I don't want get into Politics.

Iam open to new thoery on anything but i dislike heavy serbian pov passed on readers as some real fact. People need to be fair and go along with what we know now...any new theory is possible....look at DaVinci Code...sounds realistic but is 90% fiction...but still some people debate that its truth...you can't win with people who are hell bent on lies and trying to covert modern thinking.

Re Croatia and Serbia...if you check the Iranian websites (Search Iranian Croats) theys seem to think the Serbs are Croats..the site is Iranian so i giess unbais...it also goes on to say that Yugoslavia burnt the evidence so our people would continue to think of themselves as Slavs and not Iranian in origin....interesting read....also place names in Iran tend to relate more to Croats by name and less to Serbs. I think they could be the same people too...

Re Andric ...why does wikipedia have Andric as Serbian Croatian Yugoslav, yet for Tesla have just Serbian American...after all Tesla was born in Croatia and grew up Croatian....Andric wasnt born in Serbia and has no link to Serbia.... This is what Iam talking about....Serbs have to be fair when editing on wikipedia. Andric should be Croatian Bosnian Yugoslav only...no mention of Serbia should be made until 3 paragraph..right..The editing on Wikipedia is very Serbian pov. I have no problem with Tesla being Serbian American. To be fair if you say Andric is Serb you could say Tesla is Croat as the later is more connected to that country...understandEvergreen Montenegro1 01:50, 16 June 2006 (UTC) i have contacted panonian about this injustice...maybe he can fix it........ i would like to see Tesla as Serb only and Andric and Boscovic as Croat only as this is correct, any other thoery is nationalistic pov Serbian and Croatian.. Evergreen Montenegro1 01:50, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Enough said..Take Care.........

)

Evergreen Montenegro1 23:29, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Question

If Bosnians and Montenegrins are Serbs in origin why do they prefer to use latinica like Croats and not Chirilica like the Serbs??? In the part of Montenegro were my parents are from only Latinica is used and all record books are in latinica only. I think the same goes for Bosnia.

Why???If they are all Serb origin why not use Chirilica text like the Serbs.....

Evergreen Montenegro1 05:50, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Connection?

Hmmmm, Ive noticed something:

Do you see the possible connections?

The name Serbs is one of the old Slav tribal names. This is attested by the traces from Polablje, Velikopoljska, and Pomorje (the three provinces belonging to Poland today). As early as in the mid 10th century the Serbs on the Balkan peninsula were aware of their links with the Serbs living in the north of the Slav original homeland. Even the learned emperor Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus (913-959) of Byzantium and his intellectual circle heard about the Serbs who had been brought from their homeland "White Serbia" by one of the sons of the ruler of the "unbaptised Serbs" in the time of Emperor Heraclius (610-640).

You follow?

[edit] Boka Kotorska and Bosniaks

Holy Roman, you didnt get back to me bout what you meant?

i assume you are talking about my claims of the ever growing Greater Bosniak

BiH traži Boku? http://www.slobodnadalmacija.com/20060616/bih02.asp --Jadran 02:36, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome back!

I heard that you were going to spend little time on wiki - but glad to see that you're back! :) P. S. remember me? --HolyRomanEmperor 12:58, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Half back, but should be back for a few weeks now. I've been back up to maybe 12-15 hours a week; I'm hoping to push that up to 20 or so for the next month or so, but then it will fall off again; I don't expect to be back hardcore until some time in September. - Jmabel | Talk 16:27, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: AGAIN

Na sto mislis? Smiren sam, ne mogu se sjetiti sad na sto bi mogao taj komentar biti :) --Joy [shallot]


[edit] Please help on William Shakespeare

 Thank you for your support of the Article Improvement Drive.
This week William Shakespeare was selected to be improved to featured article status.
Hope you can help…

Posted by PruneauT 00:58, 20 June 2006 (UTC) on behalf of the AID maintenance team.

[edit] problem

Reci :) --Joy [shallot] 21:56, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Mislis ono sa Emirom Arvenom? Da, to sam pustio tebe da mu objasnjavas, ali to ne znaci da ne mislim da bosanski kraljevi ne spadaju u sve tri nacionalne povijesti :) Mozda se ukljucim. --Joy [shallot] 15:23, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Pa, ako se dobro sjecam, verzija na koju si ti revertirao je ukljucivala clanak u nacionalne povijesti Hrvata i Srba, a njegova u nacionalnu povijest Bošnjaka. --Joy [shallot] 15:35, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Odgovor

Znam da se moj nadimak piše sa dva N, ali nisam to znao kad sam registrovao nick (tada mi je engleski bio malo slabiji). Inače neko je već registrovao nick User:PANNONIAN, ali to samo zato da mene zajebava. :) PANONIAN (talk) 15:40, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] vlada u egzilu

Hej,

Ako bi mogao molim te pogledati Republic of Serbian Krajina Government in Exile i Talk:Republic of Serbian Krajina Government in Exile... mislim da si ti cak i ciljana publika :o) --Joy [shallot] 16:31, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Ma predobro... trebalo bi biti losije :)) [ako si mozda gledao novu Kraševu reklamu] --Joy [shallot] 14:49, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Ah, ma ima reklama za cokoladu gdje neka zenska kaze za cokoladu "prelijepa je... trebala bi biti ruznija!" :)

Sto se tice RA, naravno :) --Joy [shallot] 14:50, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re:

Milo Đukanović will not face defeat and will be PM of Montenegro for a second time. Without him, Montenegro wouldn't be a country. Second of all, since Montenegro is a new country, his terms before didn't count, so, he can't face defeat because a lot of Montenegrins (including myself) support him all the way. Alright, then I'll wait until the Montenegrin language will become official, then I'll try to start up the Montenegrin Wikipedia again. Hope the next time, you support it. Also, less extreme circles will face defeat because DPS is the most popular and will always be like that, so there is no chance those other guys will win, only DPS will win. Crna Gora (Talk/Contribs/Edit Count) 17:55, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Neither of us live in Montenegro. You live in Serbia. You don't understand. Albanians and Muslims support him. I bet they forgave him for handing over Muslim refugees. Have any proof of your Serb estimates? no, you don't. Milo is by far nothing compared to Milošević. By the way, you're spreading Serbian Propoganda. Well, stop doing that. How did Milo "violently" take over? Why do you think he handed over those Muslim refugees to Bosnian Serbs?, because he was afraid of Milošević, just like everyone else. Why do you think he support Milošević, because he was afraid of him. How is Milo a sympathizer of Jevrem Brković? Besides, I don't care about that. He can't force the Montenegrin people to do anything for him because the country is free. How is Milo an Italian mafia boss? Why would Montenegro turn over Milo to the ICTY? Only Serbs and other unionists of Montenegro would do that. Why would Milo want independence so that he could more further formalize his dictatorial grip over Montenegro? You've got to understand this, Montenegro will always be free, no matter what now. We all know that Milo is a well known smuggler, who really cares. Bottom line, Milo is not an absolute ruler of Montenegro but has great political power and great support and yet Montenegro is and will always be free. Crna Gora (Talk/Contribs/Edit Count) 18:28, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Ja ne mogu da verujem da ti održavaš konverzacije sa ovim prostakom. Pogledaj šta je napisao ovde. Ja sam mu rekao da više neću da pričam s njim, a on mi je ostavio neku poruku koju misli da me je kao "povredila". Čak i da sad prekineš kontakt s njim, gnjaviće te još danima, veruj mi. Mislio sam da si ti na malo višem nivou, ipak si dobar korisnik, za malo i admin. Drži do sebe. -- serbiana - talk 03:14, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Ej

(Greškom) sam ti odgovorio na User talk:HolyRomanEmperor/Archive5, ali ga ne bih pomjerao odatle, kako bi ostalo u kontekstu. Pozdrav, Duja 09:13, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Demografic History of Pristina

Hi HRE, I agree with your opinion on the ideas behind the article creation. I have added a mergeto tag. As I know for a fact that someone has been wikistalking me recently (both the usual suspect and the newcomer), you may expect this to be removed. I sincerely have not much energy left to fight fanatics. Hope you are OK. Cheers, EAsterion u talking to me? 18:55, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re:

That argument about me being banned from Serbian Wikipedia was something about Boris and me. Boris pissed me off, just like he keeps doing. Just forget about it. Besides, how'd you findUser:CrnaGora/Montenegrin_Books? I got that from my talk page on Albanian Wikipedia. I think Hipi Zhdripi gave them to me, suggesting that I start up a Montenegrin Wikibooks. Those books are actually excerpts from books, I think. There I told you. Bye Crna Gora (Talk/Contribs/Edit Count) 19:02, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Samo da znaš da je CrnaGora izbrisao moj glas sa Mete, iako sam mu napisao da sam napustio SAMO englesku Wikipediju ovde. Kao što vidiš, bio sam vrlo prijateljski raspoložen, a on mi obrisao glas. Ja ga nisam izazvao, sam od sebe je popizdio, znamo zašto. -- serbiana - talk 23:55, 26 June 2006 (UTC)


Znašli zašto sam poludio, eh zbog tebe. I evo da ti kažem ovo opet. Borise, ja nisam znao da nisi napuštio Vikipediju i Meta. Samo sam mislio to zato što si napuštio Englesku Vikipediju. Kol'ko puta moram da ti kažem ovo. Izvini što sam ti nabrisao tvoj glas. Taman sad si prevršio svaku mjeru, Borise.Ja sam ti rekao evo ne koliko puta i još komplaniraš da sam ti obrisao glas, pa sada hoćeš a kažeš svime, e. Ti si stvarno ludna budala. Ćao Crna Gora (Talk/Contribs/Edit Count) 01:31, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hello

Hey HRE! Long time I heard from you, everything okey?

I saw this: "Serbs think they are unfairly picked on by the West; Croats feel they are unfairly portrayed as Neo-Nazis; Bosniaks continue to cultivate their victim status from the Bosnian War and Kosovar Albanians can't think straight whenever they hear the word "Serb"." Based on my own experince of Balkan this is a very good explenation of Balkanization. Is it your own quote? Take care - Litany 19:44, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hey HRE

Do you know what is the problem with Boris Malagurski? He seems like he wants to get every Serbian and you to turn against me. He's got to understand that I have anger issues and can't control my anger when someone really pisses me off. God, what is the matter with him? Ok since he doesn't want me to contact you and since we have major differences, I'll stop contacting you, except for really important things. Ok? Bye. Crna Gora(T/R | C/P) 01:17, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

I would never stop posting messages on your talk page. Sorry for that. I guess we have something in common, both of us are Montenegro and we have been attacked by Boris. Ok, sorry. Bye Crna Gora(T/R | C/P) 17:28, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

cekaj. je li, kad sam ja to tebe napao bre? --serbiana - talk 18:31, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

koliko se secam, ja sam se gorko borio da budes izabran za admina.... a ti mene optuzujes da sam te napao... ili se mozda ulizujes nikoli stevanu banerovicu... --serbiana - talk 18:34, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

a za to sto nikola lupeta da ocu da okrenem srbe protiv njega je cista laz. meni ne trebaju drugi da mi pomognu da se otarasim nekih ljudi, mogu to i sam. mada, ovog sam jedva otkacio, ostavljao mi je poruke i molio me da ga oprostim nekoliko puta. kod mene nema zajebancije. --serbiana - talk 00:15, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] well...

you obviously lied that time, saying that you're against something, and then supporting it... i don't take it personally and neither should you. aggressive and rude? well, duh, i'm serbian :-) --serbiana - talk 21:40, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Stefan Nemanja povelja.JPG

Did you know that you could actually upload this to commons.wikimedia.org, so that all Wikipedias can use the image?--Zanimum 16:08, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

...but it's easier for me as a concentrate to work on this wikipedia solely. If there are any specific desires (Thy wish, perhaps?) I will have no problem in wrapping it up right now... --HolyRomanEmperor 19:24, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
You seem to have misinterpreted my comment. I wasn't suggesting you add it to Commons, and then place the image on every single language's project. I was suggesting you upload this or any future free image to Commons. Once on Commons, any contributor from any project can use it at any time in the future, without directly uploading it to their own project. It takes the same amount of your time as uploading to Wikipedia directly, but it saves time for other users on other projects.--Zanimum 19:28, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The mop

Sceptre would like to nominate you to be an administrator. Please visit Wikipedia:Requests for adminship to see what this process entails, and then contact Sceptre to accept or decline the nomination. A page has been created for your nomination at Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/PaxEquilibrium/Archive2 4. If you accept the nomination, you must formally state your acceptance and answer the questions on that page. Once you have answered the questions, you may post your nomination for discussion, or request that your nominator do so.

[edit] Re:

Yes HRE, we are OK. Don't worry about it. I supported you on your recent RfA. See you later. Crna Gora 16:16, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hello

Bhadani has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Smile to others by adding {{subst:smile}}, {{subst:smile2}} or {{subst:smile3}} to their talk page with a friendly message. Happy editing!

--Bhadani 17:20, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ok

Of course, you know I respect you, even if I don't like some of your actions and opinions. You're an intelligent person and a great asset to this Wikipedia. We're OK. --serbiana - talk 18:06, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: My adminship

Hello! I believe you will be a good candidate, but I can't hide concerns about your limited experience in the Wikipedia namespace. Good luck with your RFA! -- ReyBrujo 20:34, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh, don't worry. I knew you were sincere, that is what you get to learn after interacting with a lot of users. I added my justification for not voting support so that if anyone else arrived here he would not find just a "Good luck!" message, but instead a justified messge. You know, I don't really like the cross talking with single words that may be misunderstood by thirds :-) -- ReyBrujo 20:47, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: That arguement...

And just why are you telling me this now?It's been how long... 2 Months? --Krytan talk 23:02, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Are you serious? --Krytan talk 01:41, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Because it wasn't that big of a deal. --Krytan talk 18:21, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] re:I remembered you were saying...

Yeah, I left for a while, but you know me, I return eventually. :-) — The King of Kings 00:52 July 02 '06

[edit] WP:BDC

I know you meet the requirments... but our leader has to accept you. GangstaEB (talk • contribs • count • ice slides) 01:44, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Incident Log

Hey HRE. Question, did you have to make that Incident Log about me? and why did you make that incident log? Just wondering. Maybe Boris made you do it, maybe not. Don't know what to believe. Don't even bother answering me back on this because I think you should've done this to see what the heck his going on between me and other users or should I say conflicts. Hahaha!!!! Bye. Crna Gora 05:51, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I don't think the incident log is bad, I think it's good a good idea to make an incident log, though it might ruin my chances of becoming admin one day (Per say the part when Boris and I had that conflict on Serbian Wikipedia and then brought it here) Crna tec Gora 05:21, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Smile

Crna tec Gora has smiled at you! Smiles promote WikiLove and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by smiling to someone else, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Smile to others by adding {{subst:smile}}, {{subst:smile2}} or {{subst:smile3}} to their talk page with a friendly message. Happy editing!

[edit] Have a Barnstar...

Hey HRE. Thought I 'd drop in again. I decided to give you a barnstar, though I should've done it a long time ago. Sorry for the wait. Already put it on your user page. Hear's how it looks like, just to get a preview. ...Bye HRE. Crna tec Gora 08:26, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I award HolyRomanEmperor this barnstar for his tireless work and countless contributions to South Slavic-related articles on Wikipedia. Without him, where would we get our knowledge of the far past of Southeastern Europe. Keep up the good work and may we see a lot more from you. Crna tec Gora 08:24, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
I award HolyRomanEmperor this barnstar for his tireless work and countless contributions to South Slavic-related articles on Wikipedia. Without him, where would we get our knowledge of the far past of Southeastern Europe. Keep up the good work and may we see a lot more from you. Crna tec Gora 08:24, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re your msg on my talk page

Thanks fo ryour message HRE. I read everything correctly and stand by my position. A self-reported 3RR blocks is still a 3RR block. Concerns from RfA 3a and and sheet number of conflicts remain important issues. To answer your 2nd question, we have met before once. Someone put up an article in Serbian on AfD and I read it as best as I could given my Russian fluency - and then I called you to come and comment on whether my assessment was correct - and you did. Good luck and sorry for my vote. - CrazyRussian talk/email 18:46, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] As per Your (Our) brother's request

I have announced your passing to a better place, dear relative. Forever will you be remembered in our hearts - even though I never got to know you personally enough myself. As per your (our) brother's request, I will anounce this to your dearest companions here - as well as those with whome you didn't have the luck to agree with.

(in Serbo-Croatian): Zauvijek ces nam ostati u srcu, brate sokole. --Sad News 20:35, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_adminship#This_is_a_Wikipedia_first.. for further discussion Ashibaka tock 04:11, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Book of Remorse

  • Your dear cousin Igor. Forever will you be in our hearts - and such a sad thing that we didn't get to know each other better. --Sad News 21:19, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Oh dear lord, I can't believe that you are no longer among us. You were the best, the only person on Wikipedia I respected. We didn't always agree on everything, but nevertheless you always upheld a high level of maturity, respect and honour. You will be missed by everyone here, especially me. Moje saučešće porodici, a HRE, želim ti večni mir. Amin. --serbiana - talk 22:07, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Nadam se da je ovo samo neukusna šala nekoga ko je uspeo da dođe do kompjutera, ali u tragičnom slučaju da nije, moje saučešće porodici. Ako je moguće, molim vas da me emailom na Special:Emailuser/Zocky obavestite o mestu i vremenu sahrane, da pošaljemo barem buket od strane fondacije. Zocky | picture popups 22:54, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Image:Cry.png -- Avi 02:56, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
  • If this is true, then my sympathies are with HRE's loved ones in this difficult time. - Mark 03:59, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
  • HOAX. see [27]--TheFEARgod 14:51, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Big Time Hoax. I definetely agree with you TheFEARGod. BIG TIME HOAX. Crna tec Gora 23:31, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Thank God its just a hoax. --serbiana - talk 23:43, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Spain and Montenegro

If that's the case, then should we change Spain on the list of recognitions and remove it from the list of countries with which Montenegro has established diplomatic relations? The People's Daily article from 16 June states that Spain had recognized and established diplomatic relations with Montenegro, so I'm unsure as to how to proceed. Thanks. Canadian Bobby

Btw, I'm new at this talk page stuff, so please forgive if I've erred.

[edit] Alive

Sorrie! Problem solved! Won't hapen again, my good friends! --HolyRomanEmperor 11:44, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Cool. Who is next? Elvis? ;)
Considering amount of activity here regarding your "departure", I believe it would be nice to give very detailed explanation of "problem" that has been solved. I don't think anyone here will be satisfied with just Problem solved!. Many good articles might have been written instead of waisting time on debunking the hoax. : So, please, give us a timeline of the events from your perspective and explain what took you so long to come back here.--Ante Perkovic 12:16, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm afraid I'll have to agree that an explanation would be greatly appreciated... —Nightstallion (?) 12:28, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm confused too; your spelling and edit summary usage has changed; you have an excellent En-5 level of English until 3 July, when you instead use "nonsence", "articel" and "movin". smurrayinchester(User), (Talk) 13:02, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Welcome back to the world of the living. I really hope you can explain this. - CrazyRussian talk/email 13:50, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Whatever is going on here, something's wrong. I've indefinitely blocked this account, so that things can be sorted out properly, and will revert the edits which were made today. HRE: if you yourself are still using this account: please contact me via email. --JoanneB 13:49, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

I admittedly didn't dig back more than a few days, but his spelling and grammar don't seem to be much different either before or after 3 July. I'd like to note that ability with a foreign language (like, in HRE's case, English) can fluctuate wildly depending on factors such as level of concentration, stress, tiredness, and so on; further, nobody, regardless of fluency or psychological factors, is exempt from typos (e.g., "articel" <=> "article"). That said, I'm just as eager as the next person to find out what the heck's going on. IceKarmaॐ 14:37, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
My best guess of what's going on is plan B ("See, it wasn't me!"). --Ante Perkovic 15:37, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Probably best to hold fire at this stage, and see what response is forthcoming. Tyrenius 15:46, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Explanation needed

You need to explain yourself ASAP.I don't know you at all from before, but I view your histrionics of the past week as being highly unproductive to the project.We need a cogent explanation as to your behaviour, or I default to the view that you pulled a terribly sick joke on all of us -- Samir धर्म 03:02, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

My comp was occupied by a very, very mean joker. I've solved the issue. --HolyRomanEmperor 10:49, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
I have one theory about this: maybe HRE nickname was abused by the person which can imitate writting style of both: of HRE and of Hipi Zhdripi, although I proposed to HRE on Serbian Wikipedia where he contacted me to create new nickname and to come here to explain what happened. I do not know why he did not yet done this. PANONIAN (talk) 12:02, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
We don't need anyone's theories. We need answers.
Beside, HRE has been on this wikipedia for a year! I find highly unlikely that not one (including yourself, PANONIAN) of many (pro-)Serbian users here don't know his email address or even a GSM number. I came here a year ago and I have at least 10 emails and a few phone numbers of other users of Croatain and english wikipedia. I find quite hard to believe that not one of users here hasn't been able to contact HRE, so I'm beggining to thing that more than one user is (actively or passivly) involed in this hoax.Ante Perkovic 12:10, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Did you hear about the old saying "Two Serbs, three parties?" :-). Seriously, I frankly believe that anyone with HRE's real-life contacts would pull them so far to try to check what happened. Although HRE was extremely talkative, it seems that he was reluctant to leave more of that info; he didn't enable e-mail through Wikipedia, and revealed little about himself. His name is allegedly Igor, and he works or studies on University of Belgrade, with a good access to the library, possibly on Faculty of Philosophy (although I didn't find anyone named Igor on the list of their associates). I don't use IRC so people who hang there could perhaps tell a bit more. Duja 13:23, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
You have been told allready that "Problem solved!" isn't enough. Do you really think that writting "I've solved the issue" will make any difference. I'm sorry to say this, but very few people believe you after someone (proipably yourself) organised this hoax. I don't even want to bother asking you detailed questions, since you gave no explanation whatsoever. --Ante Perkovic 12:10, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
wtf is wrong with you people? This was a hoax, pulled off by this imbecile of a nephew of mine. On the other, this aleged "hi-jacking" of this user's account seems to be hold on the fact that I changed my subjects. This incident opened my eyes a little, so I am just taking it from a more NPOV point of view - not POV as en:User:Ilir pz said (because where I am, in Belgrade!), my good friends...
Duja: yes, I have now e-mail.
Ante Perkovic: wtf? --HolyRomanEmperor 17:39, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I am still blocked. Why am I still blocked? And who the hell changed the title of Crown Prince Leka II??? I guess probably someone who thinks that this version of the name (Leka Anwar Zog Reza Baudouin Msiziwe) is better. May I know how could this loooong name seem better??? --HolyRomanEmperor 17:43, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

You are still blocked because you have not sent me (or anyone else) a decent explanation for what happened, like I asked you above. As for the name of that page: I moved it back because titles are never part of a page name, per our article naming policy. --JoanneB 17:53, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Oh, and about the 'wtf is wrong with you people': what is wrong with us people, was that we were told you were dead. As you might or might not be able to imagine, this has caused a lot of confusion, people were upset, others didn't know what to believe.You don't seem to show any consideration for the problems and confusion you and/or your nephew caused. You provide little information, let alone any reason for us to have any faith that this won't happen again. In fact - there's no way of us knowing that your account isn't still compromised, is there? Sorry to be so skeptical, but it's hard if not impossible to see from such a distance what's going on. --JoanneB 18:00, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, then, I would gladly move it to Leka II. Could you then explain me this wikipedia policy? I would gladly like to learn it. Like I said - my imbecile nephew occupied my comp while I was away (at my friend's). --HolyRomanEmperor 18:06, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

See this page: Wikipedia:Naming conventions (names and titles) for more information about naming conventions in these cases. --JoanneB 18:12, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
For what its worth, I would presume good faith here and allow HRE's above explanation to call it. --Robdurbar 18:16, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
HRE: contact me or DragonflySixtyseven about an unblock on IRC. --JoanneB 18:23, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm sure you understand why we're dubious. Remember those conversations we had on IRC, including the one where you told me your real name? If you can provide that, then it will help confirm that you are who you say you are. Clearly, you don't need to provide it here - you can just come on IRC like usual and tell it there. DS 18:25, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Actually, I think that HRE is still not himself. :) PANONIAN (talk) 20:48, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
Agree with you there, 100%. He still hasn't explained what's been going on which is odd because he usually explains things that hasn't been explained and with his level 5 English, now according to reports by other users isn't the same as it was before. Not sure what to believe anymore, whether he got hacked or it was a hoax by him or someone else. Crna tec Gora 21:00, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I AM en:User:HolyRomanEmpire.

Now, will you STOP this nonsence anymore (PANONNIAN und Crna Gora). I am me (now) - and like I said, I was off and my nephew was on the comp. He's usualy a very very naughty dude, and I apologize for this inconvenience - that wont happen ever again. --HolyRomanEmperor 21:16, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
"und" is German for "and" - surely not a mistake the real HRE would make. Phildav76 23:02, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

! My other edits have been nullified as well! Not only His Majesty Crown Prince Leka's! And I didnt brake the wikipedia policy there (I read it now, a little). --HolyRomanEmperor 21:19, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, at the time that you were blocked, I rolled back your edits as well - as there were still strong signs that your account was compromised. I did not just decide that myself, but asked several people for a second opinion (Danny, among others). I still stand behind that decision and hope that you understand that if your account were compromised, such edits could have done a lot of damage to both Wikipedia and your reputation as an editor. Again, if you want to be unblocked: please contact me, preferably via IRC so we can sort this out. --JoanneB 21:30, 6 July 2006 (UTC)


I AM en:User:HolyRomanEmpire.

Dude, you mispelled your own username.--Cúchullain t/c 21:29, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

So many people spell wrong. --HolyRomanEmperor 22:26, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Joanne: No, I do not understand. Revert those edits now! --HolyRomanEmperor 22:30, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, can't and won't do that until we've definitely established that you're you. And you're not going to accomplish that by keeping on stating it here, sorry. --JoanneB 22:33, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

What's the problem? If you're you, simply send 'er an e-mail, and the case is closed. —Nightstallion (?) 12:12, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

This is nonsence (if I am I). OK, give me an e-mail address. --HolyRomanEmperor 22:11, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

You don't need an e-mail address <not a personal attack and not meant to be an attack> you dope </not a personal attack and not meant to be an attack>, ever heard of the e-mail user function. Here's the link to e-mail Joanne. Special:Emailuser/JoanneB Crna tec Gora 22:33, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I'm having a feeling that you are definetely not the old HolyRomanEmperor. First you spell things wrongly, damaging your lv-5 english level, Second of all, you're acting definetely, and last but not least, you ask for an e-mail address when there is an e-mail user function on Wikipedia. <--(You should know that the e-mail user function actually exists on Wikipedia since you have been here for a year now) Also I should note that you spelled you're username wrong above and you included the "en:User:" thing, which you have never done. Anybody agree with my theory? Crna tec Gora 22:40, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. My thoughts exactly. Petros471 22:54, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Absolutely. Many different things are wrong with the responses. This situation continues to get more bizarre by the hour. Grandmasterka 23:05, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
Me too. This fits in my alien body snatchers kidnaping theory. --Ante Perkovic 23:34, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Also of note is this post: [28] in which HRE suddenly changes his mind on the Kosovo article a 180 degrees compared to what he has been saying for weeks and which was made only 10 minutes before he announced here to be back again: [29]. Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 11:30, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Message to the Emperor

Hi - we've never communicated, so this should serve as proof of the disturbance you've caused to the community. Please understand that you need to give a detailed explanation of what happened. You can't conceal the information, because unless I'm much mistaken, you don't realize the gravity of the accusation made: that you died! This is no joking matter.

You must understand how disturbing this event has been to people who've come to trust you, admire you and be your Wikifriends. If you don't, you will completely destroy the fruits of your labor and any possibility of normal resumption of work here. This Fire Burns.....Always 03:16, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

It's pretty clear to me that it's not even him though... What happened to the real HolyRomanEmperor? Grandmasterka 05:08, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WPFY has a new look!

Check out WP:FY. If you wish, you can add {{WPFY}} to your user or talk page to keep in touch with the project. Zocky | picture popups 17:51, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] and another Poll...

Hi. There's a debate about how much "X-ian" one must be in order to be considered "X-American" (or X-Yian for that matter) and be categorized as such. The poll is here: Wikipedia:WikiProject Ethnic groups/Rules for lists of X-Americans. Kindly weigh in! :NikoSilver: 22:05, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sigh

This is sad. I wonder if something really did happen to HRE, or if someone has just hijacked his account, or...

Anyway. One thing is clear; the current user is obviously not the HRE whom we have all known (barring a Phineas Gage-type mishap). DS 00:12, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

For all practical purposes this is the end of the HolyRomanEmperor on Wikipedia. I just pray that he is safe and healthy, and can live life in a good way. This Fire Burns.....Always 05:24, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Not quite, not quite... he seems to be back, although I don't know why doesn't he put a notice here. See User:HRE --Dijxtra 20:47, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Macedonia (terminology)

Well, that'll be the first article we're not bitching too much about! :-) :NikoSilver: 22:10, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Orthodox-Church-in-Banja-Luka.jpg

Molim te pogledaj ovu sliku i njenu licenci. Onaj korisnik uporno pokušava da je diskredituje uprkos mom nastojanju da opstane. Da li bi mogao da reaguješ adekvatnim argumentima pošto moj engleski nije najbolji za takve stvari? Hvala. --Pockey 22:32, 20 July 2006 (UTC)


[edit] SIPTARE

He first said Kosovo(kosovO ,with O at the end of the word).Then he said Kosova(kosovA,with A on the end of the word).

That means that the new HRE is Albanians,because only albanians call it kosova(instead of Kosovo,with O on the end of the word).

HAHAHAHAHA OWNED sto bi rekli ameri


http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Kosovo&diff=prev&oldid=62167189

Ice Cold 13:59, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tvrtko

Hi HRE,

Check out discussion page on Tvrtko. I posted some suggestions on how we can reach agreement on some of the issues. Regards --EmirA 13:38, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Deleting reference

Hi,

Why you deleted my reference to Britannica that proves Nikola Boskovic was Croat? --Ante Perkovic 13:10, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pagania

Hello! You fulfilled my page protect request and enforced the biased version. The side that refused to discuss and edit-war-POV-pushed its version is now victorious. Any solution to this problem? (please respond at my talk page). --HolyRomanEmperor 20:22, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

No real solution, I'm afraid.If basically everyone involved (except this one user) agrees that this side is wrong, then there is a small chance it can be changed.m:The Wrong Version is relevant here. —Mets501 (talk) 20:42, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
P.S. You might want to change your userpage, it still says that you're indef blocked. —Mets501 (talk) 20:43, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] You may want to know

Seeing as you're back:

  • (cur) (last)16:37, 29 August 2006 MichaelBillington (Talk | contribs) (Reverted your user page back to its early July glory. Hope you don't mind! I have removed {{user world}} as it has been deleted, and I changed your {{babel-11}} box to {{babel}} for the same reason)
-- Michael Billington (talk • contribs) 07:01, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why?

I don't understand the question you posted me. If it's directed at me as being someone who changes facts on Wiki ...you're wrong.

My views are unbias and are of popular belief, i don't make things up. If many unbais non Croatian sources show Marco Polo was of possible Croatian origin, Wiki should mention it. If Boscovich and Andric are clearly Croats why say they are mentioned as Serbian? Why do Serbs on Wiki continue to alter the facts turning Croats into Serbs and get away with it??? I don't see you calling Tesla Serbo-Croatian. BE FAIR OK Croats have left Tesla article alone and left him as Serbian inventor, you should be fair and do the same for Boscovich Andric etc.... BE FAIR OK

Respect is the word with a capital R Jagoda 1 23:16, 30 August 2006 (UTC)


[edit] You what

Jagoda 1 05:50, 31 August 2006 (UTC)



[edit] Re: Pagania

Well, there is nothing I can do except ask you to unprotect the page. Currently, there is no need for it to be protected. What's more, there is a need to have it unprotected. You must understand why I feel a little overprotective for that I article - I wrote it. --HolyRomanEmperor 17:35, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

I think you should ask at WP:RFPP for it to be unprotected.From what it looks like now, if I unprotect it, the edit war will start again.Maybe a different admin would think differently. —Mets501 (talk) 18:23, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
You're right - but tell me trully: Is it better to have a potentially biased controversal article then an edit war? And I don't want to seem negative - but see it like this - isn't wikipedia against edit warriors, original research, personal attacks and internet trolls? --HolyRomanEmperor 19:33, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
OK, I'll unprotect it, but if I notice the edit war starting again I will protect it, regardless of what version I encounter.Protection is not an endorsement of a particular version, and if I start picking which version I like better that's against policy. —Mets501 (talk) 19:38, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Arbitration request on Kosovo

Dear Editor, since you have been involved in editing the Kosovo article in the last months, and that article has been the subject of long ongoing edit wars, your name is listed in the Request for Arbitration on this matter. You can make a statement here: Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration#Kosovo. Due to the large number of editors involved, however, I would to ask you to keep your statement concise and to the point. If you feel you have not been substantially involved in the disputes surrounding the Kosovo article, please do not remove your name from the Arbitration request, but rather make a short statement there explaining why you feel you have not been involved enough to be part it. To understand my reasons for requesting Arbitration, please read my statement on the Requests for Arbitration page. Best regards, Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 10:13, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

I was honestly touched by what you wrote on the arbitration page. My uncle was excecuted by Serbian army in April 1999, my house was burned down by teh Serbian Army in June 1999 and some 12 other friends and relatives were victims of the recent war. I am quite worried that the conflict is not over yet. That is why, we need to change and move to a virtuous cycle of respect and support for each other. I am sure, had the wars not have started, we would have now been part of the EU and one of the important countries of the bloc. That is too late now. By the end of the year there will be 7 enteties deriving from former Yugoslavia. What we now need is some positive energy. Good luck. Dardan 17:51, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for expressing your views. Also, I am glad that the problems with your account are over. Best wishes, EAsterion u talking to me? 06:32, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
By any chance, have you read Made in Yugoslavia, a novel by Vladimir Jokanović (Not sure of the original title in S-H but it could have been Есмарх, as in the Esmarch bandage ). Regards, EAsterion u talking to me? 13:48, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Henry Yule

is one of many to say Marco Polo was Croatian in origin... To call him Italian is wrong as he clearly isn't Italian. He was Venetian and Venetians in Korcula and Dalmatia were Croats by blood no matter what names they used at the time.

Many books about Marco Polo say he was Dalmatian and was from Dalmatia...in 1998 Korcula was given one such proof of Dalmatian origin from an English Museum which doc clearly says "Polo was from Dalmatia"....

Re Montenegro...not sure what you mean about that

Jagoda 1 22:57, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Demografske promjene u Bosni i Hercegovini

Oko mojih promjena te stranice možeš pogledati na raspravi [[30]] :)) Mislim da niti jedna promjena nije bila kriva, pa te molim da odgovoriš na pitanja na toj stranici. Inače ta stranica je dosta prosrpski orijentirana i materjali crpljeni su dobrim djelom iz Srpske pravoslavne Crkve. Mislim nazivati sve Slavene u Bosni Srbima i navoditi njihov postotak (1878) kao 98 ? hej:) Ajde pogledaj, pa javi... Ceha 19:07, 2 September 2006 (UTC) Gle, nisam namjeravao zbrisati toliko rečenica, već ih prepraviti:) Jer ako pogledaš kartu [[31]] tog popisa, vidjeti ćeš jasnu netočnost opisa koje sam promjenio. Da stvar bude bolja ta karta je na istoj stranici. Nisam to opet mijenjao (pogledaj kartu i pogledaj popis, pa usporedi, pa mi reci jesam u pravu:) Dodao sam svoje dodatke (ono za hrv. emigraciju) i izbacio sam onaj dio za sjevernu Hercegovinu (jer je onaj dio o većini po regijama, pa je malo blesavo izdvajati samo jedan dio regije, a to se ne radi u drugim regijama, npr. hrv većina sjeverno od Banje Luke). Ceha 21:19, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Etničke mape SFRJ

Da mape su tačne, iako autor nije pravio razliku između absolutne i relativne etničke većine, tako da je etnički mešovite opštine obojio u boju najbrojnijeg naroda u opštini, inače drugih greški na mapama nema. PANONIAN (talk) 00:03, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Pa razlika između tih mapa je u tome što prve tri pokazuju podatke na nivou opština, a ova sa Rastkovog sajta pokazuje podatke na nivou naselja. Dakle, sve su mape tačne samo što pokazuju različite stvari. Na primer u člancima o Vojvodini, Sandžaku i Republici Srpskoj takođe imaš duple etničke mape (jednu sa podacima na nivou opštine, a drugu sa podacima na nivou naselja): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vojvodina#Demographics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandžak#Demographics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srpska#Demographics PANONIAN (talk) 12:21, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Serbian lands

E jebi ga, pa ne sviđa mi se baš. Zašto si neke zemlje izbacio? I drugo Kosovo i Makedonija nisu bili politički entiteti u 14. veku. Ovako radikalne promene u članku je trebalo prvo diskutovati. PANONIAN (talk) 12:43, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Pa ako misliš na države Vuka Brankovića i Vukašina Mrnjavčevića, to je druga stvar, ali se one nisu zvale Kosovo i Makedonija. A što se tiče zemalja koje si izbacio, izbacio si ih nekoliko kao što su State of Vojislav Vojinović (14th century), State of Sevastokrator Dejan (14th century), State of Sevastokrator Vlatko (14th century), itd. Pogledaj i sam svoju izmenu: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Political_entities_inhabited_or_ruled_by_Serbs&diff=73564715&oldid=60688232 To su takođe sve bile nezavisne zemlje kad se Dušanovo carstvo raspalo. I da, Kočina krajina nije isto što i Habsburška Srbija. Pokušao sam da napravim u članku neku srednju verziju između one pre i posle tvojih izmena, a ako misliš da još nešto treba promeniti, kaži. PANONIAN (talk) 13:36, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Please write talk page messages in English. See WP:TPG for an explanation. Ashibaka tock 21:41, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Boka, Montenegro

I think you should have a chat with Panonian ...even if he's a Serb he's very unbias and has listed many facts on Croats in Boka on that page. Among the facts its clear prior to 1910 majority of the area and in particular some towns were very Croatian indeed. Under Venetian rule of Boka the people were known as ethnic Croats. Over time and today Croats are a minority in Boka and some have become Montenegrins by choice.

I dislike when people try to hide this fact...thanks to people like Panonian the truth is told without Serbian POV.

I think Panonian is a legend. Very unbias and very fair. He tells it how it is and was. Even if he's a Serbs he isn't influnced by Serbian POV.

Jagoda 1 22:57, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Kosovo

Hello,

An Arbitration case involving you has been opened: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Kosovo.Please add evidence to the evidence sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Kosovo/Evidence.You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Kosovo/Workshop.

On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, --Tony Sidaway 16:50, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] History of the demographics of Bosnia and Herzegovina

Hej:) Could you tell me what is your source in territorial distribution in 1875/6 bosnian census? I could not find anything in the external links... Ceha 19:18, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Martti Ahtisaari

Hello! Nice to see that you have created an article about our former president. However, we already have an article about him, so I redirected your article to it instead. JIP | Talk 12:14, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Misunderstading

I appreciate your concern but I only wrote message below unsigned vulgar comment what you can see [[32]]. Also in my defence dont you find apsurd that me as Croat would do write thing like that? Also check my previous conversation with PANONIAN and you ll see what our convesation all about (it wasnt related with Tesla issue). Regards! Luka Jačov 15:07, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Hehehe. Luka, trebao si napraviti nov naslov na mojoj strani za razgovor, stvarno izgleda kao da je ono tvoj komentar. :))) Ali, sada sam ja napravio nov naslov tamo, tako da tvoj odgovor stoji posebno. PANONIAN (talk) 16:05, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Nema beda, no harm done:)! Luka Jačov 09:39, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Duke of Saint Sava i mapa

Pa što se tiče hercega od Svetog Save, šta si konkretno hteo da kažeš sa tim da nema samo jedan? Da li hoćeš da nešto promenimo u članku Serbian Lands? Što se tiče mape bivše SFRJ, u pravu si u vezi dve Kosovske opštine. Goranci više nišu većina u uvećanoj opštini Dragaš, dok Srbi više nisu većina u opštini Novo Brdo. U ostale 4 opštine Srbi su i dalje većina, kao što možeš videti ovde: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Kosovo_ethnic_2005.png Predlažem ti da o promeni etničke strukture u ove dve opštine kažeš autoru SFRJ mape (Varjačić Vladimiru), da bi on to popravio. Ja ne volim da menjam tuđe mape, a pošto on više radi na srpskoj Vikipediji, tamo ga kontaktiraj. PANONIAN (talk) 16:05, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Vidi, većinu tih srednjovekovnih srpskih zemalja sam povadio iz istorijskog atlasa Geokarte, koji lako možeš naći u svakoj knjižari (koliko sam shvatio živiš u Beogradu, pa ti to neće biti problem). Tamo su lepo označene zemlje Vuka Brankovića, Mrnjavčevića, Dragaša, itd, a ne nekakvo Kosovo, Makedonija itd. Zaista ne vidim razlog da moderna imena prebacujemo u srednji vek. Što se tiče Hercegovine pazi šta si ti napisao o njenom postojanju: 15th century-1482 (hoćeš da kažeš da 1482 nije bila u 15 veku?). Nađi onda i godinu kad je formirana pa onda napiši xxxx-1482, jer ovako kako je bilo je stvarno izgledalo loše. Što se tiče Nemanjića, radije bih tu koristio "Serbia", ili "Rascia" umesto "Serbian Land", jer su prva dva pojma mnogo poznatija i u široj upotrebi. Bosna nije bila kraljevstvo Bosne i Srbije već Kraljevstvo Bosne i Srba što nije isto. Još nešto veoma važno: bez obzira što neki vladari nisu bili jedini vladari tih država njihovo ime treba pomenuti da bi neko znao o čemu se tu radi. Ako napišemo samo "Kingdom of Syrmia/Srem" neko neće znati šta je to, ali ako tu pomenemo i Stefana Dragutina, onda stvar postaje jasnija. Što se tiče Kneza Lazara u mom istorijskom atlasu piše zemlja Kneza Lazara, a ne kneževina Srbija. Što se Jovana Nenada tiče, on se proglasio carem, ali to ipak nije bilo pravo carstvo, a termin "Serbian Empire" može nekog da buni da to pomeša sa Stefanom Dušanom. Habsburška Srbija iz 18. veka bila je pokrajina sa sopstvenim guvernerom i policijskim snagama. PANONIAN (talk) 18:14, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
Pa nije istorijski atlas crtan tek tako bezveze. On je baziran na istorijskim izvorima, a ovaj je radilo nekoliko profesora i akademika. Inače kod pominjanja imena vladara, moja je ideja bila de pomenemo ime onog vladara koji je osnovao neku državu, jer je ime vladara nekad poznatije od imena same države i mislim da bismo u nekim slučajevima trebali ostaviti imena vladara koji su osnovali neke države ukoliko su oni poznatiji od same države. PANONIAN (talk) 22:00, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] CG izbori

Pa i ja sam primetio da u tom članku o izborima u CG nema ništa. Ako nađeš neke podatke o tome, dobro bi bilo da dodaš u članak. PANONIAN (talk) 23:20, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Montenegrin parliamentary election, 2006

I saw that you added results data to the article on the Montenegrin parliamentary election article. I was wondering what source you got that from, since I'm trying to make a proper election table based on that data (I'm still pretty far off), and a source is one important thing for that, so the article will be verifiable. Thanks for your help LittleDantalk 01:17, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your help, I referenced it in the table. LittleDantalk 22:29, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] what will PANONIAN say now?

Pitaš šta ću reći na članak posle tvojih izmena? Ok, pogledaj ovo: "Principality of Rascia (630s- middle 9th century; late 11th century), Principality of Serbia (927-960), Grand Principality of Rascia (mid 9th century-924; late 11th century-1217), Serbian Kingdom of Rascia (1217- 1345), Serbian Empire (1345-1371)" Taj spisak mi ne izgleda ni malo hronološki, sve je izmešano, i čak ni ja koji se pomalo razumem u istoriju ne mogu tu da se snađem, a ne neko ko to sada prvi put čita na Vikipediji. Ajde to malo hronološki sredi, pa me onda pitaj opet kako izgleda, ja sada nemam vremena da to sređujem, suviše sam umoran. PANONIAN (talk) 01:37, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I još neke stvari: White Serbia je postojala u 7. veku kada je njome vladao knez Dervan, pa napomenu "7th century" treba ostaviti. Bosna nije imala status banovine u 7 veku, već tek u 12. I rekoh već da se Makedonija i Kosovo nisu zvali tako već "Realm of Brankovići" i "Realm of Mrnjavčevići". PANONIAN (talk) 01:43, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
Dakle, popravio sam članak, pa da ti obrazložim moje izmene: Srbija iz 9. i 10. veka nije isto što Raška, već je to bila država sa imenom Srbija u čijem je sastavu bila Raška kao jedna od oblasti, i prema tome treba da stoji posebno. Takođe sam vratio zemlje Vojislava Vojinovića i Sevastokratora Dejana koje si obrisao bez objašnjenja. I vratio sam godine kada je postojala Crna Gora (nadam se da si čuo za vladara Crne Gore, Šćepana Malog). I postoje dve tvoje izmene za koje nisam bio siguran šta je tu urađeno, reci mi da li je State of Empress Jelena isto što i Empire of Serres i da li je State of Jovan Asen isto što i Despotate of Epirus? PANONIAN (talk) 02:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
Ok, za Serres i Epirus je onda u redu, ali prema mom istorijskom atlasu, Vojislav Vojinović i njegov naslednik Nikola Altomanović vladali su na mnogo široj teritoriji od Hercegovine (od Konavla na jugu do Mačve na severu), ne možemo celu tu teritoriju nazivati Hercegovina. Mislim da Sevastokrator Dejan kojeg sam spomenuo u članku nije predak Dejanovića već potpuno druga osoba (To mi nije iz atlasa već iz knjige koju sad moram ponovo da pročitam da bih video ko je on bio, za čega trenutno nemam vremena). PANONIAN (talk) 23:05, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Stefan Nemanja

Hi, I asked this at Talk:Stefan Nemanja too: did you find that particular reference in William of Tyre? If so, where (what book and chapter)? Adam Bishop 01:20, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Srpske zemlje

"And, am I going totally mad or I slightly pissed you off regarding this article?"

Pa znaš kako, bio sam u dilemi da li da skinem članak sa watch liste i da ga ostavim tebi da uređuješ, ali to ipak nisam uradio. :) Mislim stvarno mi nije jasno da ne znaš da je Srbija pod tim imenom postojala u 9. veku. Evo ti citat iz knjige "Srbija Nemanjića i Hilandar" (Miloš Blagojević, Beograd-Novi Sad, 1998): "Do tog vremena (misli se na 822 godinu), Srbi su osnovali nekoliko samostalnih oblasti sa ispoljenim elementima državnosti, kao i jednu pravu državu koju Konstantin Porfirogenit, vizantijski car i pisac, naziva Srbijom". U mom istorijskom atlasu na mapi "Srpske zemlje u 9. veku" takođe je nacrtana Srbija, i to je ova mapa čiju sakopiju napravio: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Serb_lands04.png Video sam da si na strani Talk:Serbia postavio isto pitanje. Dakle, Srbija je postojala u 9. veku, a da li je tačna godina njenog osnivanja 814, to već ne znam. Dalje, gde si pročitao da su se zemlje Mrnjavčevića, Brankovića i Vojinovića zvanično nazivale Makedonija, Kosovo i Hercegovina? Da, i šta je konkretno bio Chelm (nikad pre nisam čuo za to)? PANONIAN (talk) 18:40, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What's up?

Why would I be mad at you? No real reason unless you are giving me threats on the Bosnian Wiki. If your question is regarding my lack of contact with you, it is simply because I am focusing my time on the Bosnian Wiki. School has begun so less time will be spent on Wikipedia.

Pozdrav, Kseferovic 21:07, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

I think it is related to the article Bosanski Brod. I did some research and found out that the official name is Bosanski Brod and not Srpski Brod or Brod. I understand some people want to call it Brod so I mentioned both names equally. For some reason one unidentified user did not like this so he or she started to call i Srpski Brod.
I did research and found out that even Republika Srpska uses/agrees that Bosanski Brod is the official name, as can be seen in the discussion page of Bosanski Brod.
My goal is not to create further disputes, but to bring in correct information. The Constitutional Court of Bosnia and Herzegovina passed the decision, which would be the Supreme Court in the US. Republika Srpska has understood and on the official government page it states Bosanski Brod.
Someone started to claim the Constitutional Court of Bosnia and Herzegovina as being biased. And my response was that that issue is another topic.
No big deal about the threat, it's childish, however, I do want to bring in a neutral point of view and correctness.
Kseferovic 21:30, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Hello

Well, I've been around for quite a while, it's only that I generally steered clear of ex-Yugoslav subjects (and seeing again how things go reminded me why). But then again, it's still not that bad... GregorB 21:22, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your Edits

Your edits are as follows:

  • Total edits 7273
  • Main: 2775
  • Talk: 1215
  • User: 114
  • User talk: 2764
  • Wikipedia: 262
  • Wikipedia talk: 25
  • Image: 28
  • Image talk: 2
  • Mediawiki: 0
  • Mediawiki talk: 0
  • Template: 47
  • Template talk: 5
  • Help: 0
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  • Category: 8
  • Category talk: 0
  • Portal: 26
  • Portal talk: 2

This came from the php edit counter .— xaosflux Talk 21:50, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hi

Hi HRE, how have you been doing? BTW your latest activities seem to indicate that you're considering standing for some sort of elections ;-) if this is the case, I'd be happy to nominate you (or co-nominate you in case I'm too late). --Telex 22:08, 13 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Saznao sam puno

Sto oces rec? with the maps. Da se mnogo zemlje zvalo Serbia!!!! Nerazumen te. To su Gluposti moj Balkanski prijatelj.

Australia is a Country , USA is a counrty and all maps show that. But when you study the ethnic backgrounds of the people living there you quickly find most of the people are in fact from Europe - Brits, Italians, Greeks, Croats...some of which call themsleves Australian or American today. Just because a country is called Serbia doesn't mean all the people were and are Serb origin. (You have been reading VUK too much)


This map thing is just the thing that has caused the war. Serb people think land belogs to them when they perfectly well know that Croats lived in those areas all along.

Did you know all of the old Yugoslavia was once called Dalmatia. Those Dalmatians mixed with Croats (not Serbs) when the Craots arrived in Europe. By this fact all of Serbia today should be given back to the Dalmatian ancestors ...(that being Croats and Albanians)...HAVE A LOOK AT THE DALMATIAN MAP MY FRIEND BEFORE YOU START YOUR FOOLISH CLAIMS. This would make the Kosovo debate rather interesting...who was there first Albanians or Serbs??? Be fair, Croats never make any claim on Serbian land but the Serbs always find some way to claim Bosnia, Croatia, Macedonia, Slovenia, Vojvodina, Kosovo, Boka and Montenegro.


This is a history lesson and FACT. Bosnia was settled by Croats who converted to Islam. Montenegro was settled by Serbs but the Boka region was Croat settled. Over time this changed as Serbs moved in. Why is that Croats outnumber Serbs in the west 100,000 to 1. Many Croats moved to America etc...while the Serbs moved to Bosnia. You have as much claim on Bosnia as Serbs have on Kosovo...who was there first>>>???

Take care

PS Vuk K is a huge problem, i first thought he was ok as he was just giving a theory on Serbs but all Serbs take his info as the bible. I have nothing against most Serbain people or Serbia for that matter, take my word for it, i just dislike a Serb minority who edit all thing Croatian into Serb POV.

Conclusion: Foolish to claim land when Slavs took it from Dalmatians, Illyrians in the first place in teh 6-7th Century. Croats and Serbs took the land from them and that includes Kosovo. Croats today do have Dalmatian/Illyrian blood as do Albanians today but you don't see Croats claiming Serbian land today. Be fair. They could if they wanted to on same grounds that you claim areas just because of old maps. Who's to say the maps were correct and not part of Serb propaganda.


God bless ya

Jagoda 1 23:09, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Vojvodina Croatian land? Jagoda, you must be drunk. Just check demographics data for Vojvodina from 1850s and you will see that there lived 321,110 Serbs, 62,936 Bunjevci and Šokci, and only 2,860 Croats. Maybe you should claim that United States of America is Croatian land too (there are certainly much more Croats there than 2,860). And by the way, Serbs have almost half Illyrian blood, so claim that Albanians and Croats are Illyrians and that Serbs are not is ridiculous. No more "rakija" for you man. PANONIAN (talk) 02:11, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Odgovor

Dobro, što se tiče Brankovića, Mrnjavčevića i Vojinovića, radi sa tim šta hoćeš, ali pogledaj ovaj link što si mi dao: http://www.rastko.org.yu/rastko-bl/istorija/corovic/istorija/2_5_l.html Tu se pominje Srbija u 9 veku (890, 894, 896), a to je pre Časlava koji je vladao 927-950. PANONIAN (talk) 02:11, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Ok, zašto je onda u mom atlasu na mapi "Srpske zemlje u 9. veku" nacrtana država Srbija u kojoj je Raška samo njena istočna oblast? PANONIAN (talk) 22:34, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image

If it isn't used anywhere, IfD it. - FrancisTyers · 16:20, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Russian POV on the Kosovo-Metohia issue

Hi, have you seen this. I saw your post at Talk:Kosovo, and I think that article gives a fairly balanced summary. --Telex 21:24, 14 September 2006 (UTC)



[edit] Mir

USER:"Serb" was taking pride with the fact Serbs have population of 11 million while Croats only have 4 Million. Sure this is the case in that region but if you ever go outside that area you will quickly find that Croats outnumber the Serbs in much larger numbers. Some Serb nationalist has bumped up the figures on Serbs outside Serbia on Wiki. I guess he/she was scared that Croats have many more people across the world or something. But who really cares... If you vistit the likes of Australia, New Zealand, Argentina etc... you will quickly find that most so called Slavs, Yugoslavs, Croatians etc... are from Dalmatia. Very few are Serbs.

To sum it up ...Croats went by Boat and Plane, Serbs only went by Plane. Over time population grew. Sure some Serbs have gone to eg. USA as early as 1800s but not as many as from Dalmatia and Croatia/Bosnia. Be fair as most books on this subject show this to be fact.

In saying that maybe i misunderstood him...


Macedonians outnumber Serbs in Australia and New Zealand...i was a little surpised by that statistic.


Mir and Fairness...or maybe Blind Freddy.

Jagoda 1 00:16, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Medieval Province of Bosnia & Boka Kotorska

Hi HRM,

I thought Jagoda 1 was a she?Anyway, your comment on her page did not cover her points so I missed what you were reacting to.

I diagree with your notion that Boka never had a Croat majority - I think during the late centuries as part of Austria Hungary it did, in addition to being settled by Red Croats according to LPD. Needless to say, the area is very mixed even to this day with only a relative Serb majority of 41% vs 36% for Montenegrans.

When you speak about Bosnia, I assume you are talking about the medieval province centred on the river Bosnia.Can you clarify that point pls as it is rather confusing.Just for the record, my understanding of history is that Bosnia cetred on the Bosnia river was populated by autonomous Slavic tribes that were dominated by Croats and Serbs at one point.But predominantly the relation was with Croatia/Hungary-Croatia/ or an independent Bosnia state (not a Serbian kingdom as claimed - an association with the Serb royal family does not make it a Serbian kingdom.It is like Croatia being a Hungarian kingdom b/c of Queen Jelena's relation to King Coloman).Note also, like Croatia, the Bosnians tended to have a Ban. Only the Avars used a similar term.

My reaction was prompted by what it looked like Jagoda (seemingly a newish wikipedian) getting hit by a number of writers at the same time, some with dubious claims (such as that of Greater Croatia) - hence my call to ease up.

No hard feelings.

Cheers, croatian_quoll 00:25, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Temporary injunction in the Kosovo arbitration

For the duration of this case, any of the named parties may be banned by an uninvolved administrator from Kosovo or related pages for disruptive edits.

You are receiving this message because you are one of those covered by this injunction.

For the arbitration committee. --Tony Sidaway 17:59, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

This motion did indeed pass 5 to 0, not 4 to 0 (see Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Kosovo/Proposed_decision#Topical_Probation_for_parties) 19:06, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tag on my user page

It's {{db-bio}}. A bit sizable, but fits the whole "actual article (and apparently not an FA)" design theme, I hope. Glad I'm of help on the Old Church Slavonic name issue :) Regards, Todor→Bozhinov 19:02, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks!!

хвала HRE. :) I do like it...it's nice to know that people appreciate your work here. Take care. —Khoikhoi 23:46, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sources

"However, searching any sources, going through all, from biased articles to historical facts, I could find no "Serbia" in the 9th century, sadly"

E pa ja sam našao dva izvora već (a sigurno bi bilo više kad me ne bi mrzelo da tražim):

  • Istorijski atlas, Geokarta, Beograd, 1999.
  • Miloš Blagojević, Srbija Nemanjića i Hilandar, Beograd - Novi Sad, 1998.

Ako treba, pozvaćemo se na te reference u samom članku i rešen problem. PANONIAN (talk) 00:00, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] User: Jagoda 1

The pulls of integration and migration of youth to economic centres in addition to affecting the Croats of Crna Gora and Vojvodina, also affect the Serbs of Croatia.The Croats of Herzegovina are a different story b/c as a constituent community of BiH, they have enough of a critical mass to survive.

Not too familiar with the term "Montenegran question", but may be familiar with the issue under a different name.Will have a look when I have time.Whilst I am sure there are Catholic Serbs as well as Orthodox Croats, I think their numbers are negligible and carry no significance.The mention of such references are pointless & misleading and are markers of POV and original research.

With regard to BiH and the claim that all of those territories have been inhabited by ethnic Croats, that all Croats are autochtonous, all Bosniaks Moslem convert from Catholicism to Islam and the Orthodox Serbs either simply migrated to there escaping from the Turks or are Orthodox Croats.

I don't see anything radical in those claims - the issue is in appreciation of the nuance and the language used to reflect it.I would have stated that "most Croats and Bosnjiaks of Bosnia are autochtonous, whereas most Serbs are descendents from the Vlach migrations under the Ottomon Turks.The obvious exceptions being the Serbs in Eastern Bosnia and Herzegovina.Most modern day Bosnjiaks are descendent mostly from either Croats or autonomous Slavs.Serbs may have converted too, but their numbers are limited b/c of the relative privelages of the Orthodox church as a result of "conquered Constantanople", and conversely the oppression of the Catholic church by virtue of the the resistence of "Catholic Vienna".

The claim Nikola Tesla: Serb, Ivo Andric: Croat, Rudjer Boskovic: Croat is factually supported.How this can be regarded as some offence is beyond me.

So my call for commonsense in the following will be bad for my reputation?: :)

"HRM is right though in that any claim needs to be backed up by citing sources. Have a read of the Wiki guidelines as to what is allowed and what isn't. But even citing sources can be abused sometimes with some sources cited being self-referential or from rather nationalistic historians. Examples include the claim of Greater Croatia above and Srbija to the Una, and that Rudjer Boskovich was a Serb. Also, I often find that one historical fact may have an extended interpretation to include some bizzare conspiracy theories and often this is the source of much conflict. I agree with your impression that there is a Serb POV in alot of articles in Wiki. But it is important that we stick to the rules, refrain from personal attacks and respect the opinions of Serbian Wikipedians even if we disagree with them - rules that I try to live to although not always succesfully."

I would have thought that the fact I am not burdened by the history of the place would put me in a good position too comment?What I saw was bullying, which I can't condone despite history. Particularly when some flawed claims were being made in the confrontation.I merely pointed out the fallacy of those arguments, brought occasion to the fact of what was occuring and made the call to commonsense quoted above. croatian_quoll 07:49, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] BiH

First and foremost, as far as I known I'm cool with you? Right? User:Panonian is arguing with me and we are solving the dispute. So how have you been?

Next, about BiH the nation part and ethnicity part of BiH. This cannot work with the "American" (English Language) definition. I must say that any outsider would think Bosnia and Herzegovina was formed from three different nations. I would not argue the fact about three different ethnicitiies, but the former Yugoslavia brought that issue in more than ever beofre in history. Don't take me wrong I have respect for the SFRY and Tito but I neither refer to myself as communist nor do I want to be communist. Before, most people regardless of religion viewed themselves as Bosnian. I mean look at Tvrtko he was Bosnian but catholic, now some people might argue that he was Croatian. The man (Tvrtko) fought for Bosnia and extend its borders far more than they are today, fighting against the then early formation of Croatia. Bosnia extended all the way to Zadar with its coastline.

Thanks, Kseferovic 16:12, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Knjiga

"Sto je to od Milosa Blagojevica? Gde/kako mogu da dodjem do toga niti mi je poznato djelo ni pisac"

Pa, ono, ako je ne nađeš u knjižari ili biblioteci, onda ću ti je ja fotokopirati i poslati poštom. Jel ok sad? :)))) PANONIAN (talk) 20:22, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I felt you wre trying to attack me

"First and foremost, as far as I known I'm cool with you? Right?" is AmE (American English) slang for you and me are friends. Meaning you and I have no major disputes. I felt your questions were as if you were attacking me. That's all. No big deal, just a simple misunderstanding. sorry, Kseferovic 00:41, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] HercegOX

Cisto da ti kazem da se HercegOX lazno predstavlja da je iz Oksforda a u stvari je najverovatnije iz Beograda kao sto mozes videti iz [33] i [34]. Nikola 04:17, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Ispricavam se sto upadam, no to bi ipak bio Novi Sad: [35]. --Dijxtra 11:24, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WTF?

What is this crap? --Ante Perkovic 00:20, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] War of Independece - please see

Very funny, HRE call it what you like - it will still be Croatian War of Independence, and by the same token, this is a quote: "...Colonists were divided over which side to support in the war; in some areas, the struggle was a civil war. The Revolutionaries (also known as "Americans" or "Patriots") had the active support of about 40 to 45 percent of the colonial population. About 15 to 20 percent of the population supported the British Crown during the war and were known as Loyalists (or Tories). " taken from American_Revolutionary_War#Armies.2C_militias.2C_and_mercenaries. So the independece was not supported by the majority as you have stated above. So by taking simple reasoning, by your definition and statements made above the would fit what happened in the US: a separatists War of Independece . Vodomar 00:23, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Respect

With respect to you and other Serbs on Wiki i don't want to start an edit war.



I never knew Serbs bought all that Greater Serbia theory..little scary ....i guess that explains the reason for the war in the Balkans. Well that was one of many STUPID reasons.



You have your opinion, i have mine...who is right ??? I would say my opinion/theory or fact - whatever you want to call it was and is more mainstream, your version is more radical. Who is right...ahahaha.....well time will tell


I think we need to work together and clean up Wiki...it needs to be fair to all sides. I agree Tesla was Serb, no point mentioning him as Croat...but you have to do the same with Boscovich who was Croat not Serb. We need to be fair.

We're going over same old ground....you should speak to Panoanian who i think is the fairest of us all...he could be used as the judge..and make the articles unbais.


PS as for Serbs outnumbering Croats outside Europe...hahah where have you been and seen that?????? you have no idea about Croat migration my friend...if you do a poll of people across the world you will find Croats outnumber Serbs 5-1..the main reason for that is Serbs have 11 mil in Serbia alone while Croats are found in every corner of the world.


Argentina Australia New Zealand have huge Dalmatian communities..little Serbs. This is fact. Now what you read in Serb books on Serbs at sea....well that's another story.


Jagoda 1 22:52, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mir i sve od srca za tri tvoja prsta haha

All the best HRE.

I have left wiki on the grounds i don't want to start an edit war. Someone needs to step aside, might aswell be me.


All the best to you....keep up your good understanding with other Balkan origin users.

In my opinion freedom to edit on Wiki is the main problem.

Jagoda 1 06:50, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Here is...

...my answer. --Luka Krstulovic 17:35, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Paganija

Ej, malo strpljenja, bio sam prilično zauzet danas. Pa znaš kako, nisi bio tu jedno vreme i onda sam video da je neko izbacio Paganiju iz kategorije "History of the Serbs" i otišao sam da vidim zašto i dalje znaš. Pošto ne znam baš najbolje istoriju Paganije pa se i nisam mogao upuštati u raspravu o tome, pokušao sam da bar postignem neko kompromisno rešenje da Afrika ne obriše odatle sve što se odnosi na Srbe. Znači, to je cela priča, a sada što se on poziva na mene, to je već drugo pitanje. U svakom slučaju, ti mnogo više znaš o Paganiji, pa pošto si ti ponovo ovde, i pošto ja baš ne znam mnogo o tome, ne vidim kako bih mogao pomoći u diskusiji tamo. PANONIAN (talk) 22:32, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Montenegro

Is there a reason for your silence? --HolyRomanEmperor 22:19, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Digesting the information you presented.I won't reject an opinion as invalid just on the basis that it differs from my own - hence I will dwell on it & research to determine it's validity. But as a quick repsonse, I find the use of the term that a <insert a people> are ethnically <insert ethnicity here> highly problemmatic.
In the case of Montenegro, the presence of Serb state control over the territory or control by a Serbian elite is insufficient to asuume ethnicity.Where would this leave examples such as the Macedonians & Slovenes who prior to the supranational state of Jugoslavia were under the sovereignty of some other state.Then you have the case of the Kurds, Basque etc.
The fact that many fervent patriots come from the region only highlights that there is an ethnic rivalry that may be the source of a heightened sense of national being among these individuals.Take for example the fact that Raphael Boban (WW2 commander of Black Legion), Mario Stanic (Croatian football player), Milan Bandic (Zagreb Mayor), Ciro Blazevic (Croatian football coach to get his team to third place in 98 WC), Vlado Markovic (HNS), Ivan Ljubicic (Croat tennis representative) just to name a few, all come from Bosnia.So does alot of Croatian literature, former state control (medieval kingdom of Croatia, Croatia-Hungary state, NDH etc).
Language - not too familiar with this aspect, but even though officially the langauge is Serbian, I was under the impression that on the coastal areas at least, they spoke the ijekavica dialect, same as what is spoken in Herzegovina and Dalmatian, a dialect that is synonymous with Croatian national being.But have to research this one - the existence of similar or common language does not preclude separate identity as is the case with the Fins & Swedes for example.And remember that the Jugoslav state did a lot to close the gap between the various South slav languages in order to unify to one standard.
The mention of Red Croatia in LPD, also puts in doubt the original identity of the modern day Montenegran, along with the Narentines, and Bosnians.Despite this, the issue of original identity should be a redundant one in light of the reality of modern day nations - the Bosnjiak and Montenegran nations exist.Also the fact it is very difficult to prove whether a people are originally a certain ethnicity and the ambiguity of what this means should also render such exercises of little academic worth and prone to abuse by nationalist agendas.
Finally, the fact that there is:
  • a strong Montenegran identity today; and
  • the ferocity of the war during WW2 between Montenegran patriots and Greater Serb enthusiasts (as indicated by by the proportion of casualty figure to population);
go against the notion of common ethnicity (esp when ethnicity denotes shared genealogy and kinship).With regard to geneology, if I can put it crudely, the region as a whole has been the crossroads for many civilisations and armies, thus many races have "pissed in the gene pool".For example, that's why in Croatia and Italy you get some people that look Asian - this is a throwback to the Tartar invasions of the 12-13th centuries.In Serbia, there are the obvious Turkic and Bulgarian influences.Hence, to reiterate the previous point, determining ethnic origins is a futile exercise fraught with the nationalist agenda pittfall. croatian_quoll 05:55, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for the welcoming message

As I said, we might not agree on everything, however, hopefully we both want to learn and understand and we share the interest for Montenegro and its history. Hope refugee life wasn't too hard on you and looking forward to working with you! Momisan 06:55, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re:

Pa vidiš i sam na njegovoj strani za razgovor koliko je Afrika i mene iznervirao. :) Šta da ti kažem, obrati se nekom administratoru za pomoć, traži arbitražu u vezi Paganije (kao što se trenutno radi radi arbitraža oko članka o Kosovu), valjda ima neki način da se to reši. Inače, mislim da mi nisu skinuli administratorska ovlašćenja na srpskoj Viki, već samo birokratska, što je malo više od administratora. Nemam stvarno vremena da radim na obe Vikipedije, na engleskoj Vikipediji imam jako mnogo članaka na watch listi (preko 1000), i dok to sve sredim, nemam vremena za drugo. :) PANONIAN (talk) 22:47, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Znam već kako Bunjevci gledaju na Hrvate. Inače, ne bih se baš složio da su članci o Bunjevcima i Šokcima pro-hrvatski. Ja sam se baš trudio da kod tih članaka napravim verziju koja će prikazati sva postojeća gledišta o tim temama. I šta je konkretno problem sa člancima o Bokeljima, Gorancima i Krašovanima, nisam te baš najbolje razumeo (znaš ono, piši srpski da te ceo svet...:))? Inače slažem se da u članku Šokci možemo pomenuti poznate Šokce (slobodno napravi to poglavlje tamo). PANONIAN (talk) 20:59, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
Pa što se tiče članka Bokelji, nisam baš radio na tom članku pa ne znam problematiku, ali znam za hrvatske pretenzije na Boku gde zaista nikad u prošlosti nisu bili većina (bili su većina u nekoliko gradova Boke, ali to im svakako ne daje za pravo da tvrde da je cela Boka njihova, a pored toga je i pitanje da li su katolici Boke uopšte i hrvatskog porekla). Što se Krašovana tiče, tačno je da oni potiču od Srba Timočke Krajine, ali je problem u tome što u vreme kada su se Krašovani odselili iz tog regiona to stanovništvo nije imalo izgrađenu nacionalnu svest i smatralo je sebe Šopovima ili Torlacima. Znam da postoji ovde članak Shopi (verovatno će te zanimati), a svakako treba napisati i članak Torlaks. PANONIAN (talk) 00:53, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sources

Hi HRE. Can you, please, put precise links to the places where your quotes are? On the things you said about your POVs, we in Montenegro have a saying: "Ko o cemu, kurva o postenju". To put it somewhat bluntly, it is unmontenegrin to talk too much about ourselves, they usually let their actions do the talking and other people judge. Anyway, it has been enjoyable so far;-) Momisan 02:50, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Hello. Just to let you know I had a look at The Serb Land Montenegro site. Although extremely partisan, it does presenta different point of view, which I respect. Again, as with Montenegrina, sourcing of the documents is not their strongest point. If you really want to claim to be NPOV, I know I do :-), the only right thing is always to check and quote both sources, unless we find something better and more reliable. Still, it does a pretty good job presenting its case and it is in english, which Montenegrina isn't just yet. Momisan 06:36, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bokelji

Pa znaš kako, ja uglavnom sređujem članke koji su mi na watch listi (a Bokelji nisu). Pošto mi je juče trebalo sat vremena da sredim Bunjevce (gde je ionako veći deo članka već bio sređen), za Bokelje bi mi trebalo bar 2. :) Možda ga delimično i sredim ovih dana ako nađem vremena (imam u planu već neke druge stvari), a i pre sređivanja članka treba videti šta će gospon paprika reći na sve to (ne bih da sređujem pa da on posle revertuje). :) PANONIAN (talk) 15:32, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re:

Not satisfied, Reverted to earlier version. I didn't ask for yor help. You literally deleted all the people I put in the tree. I will start it off like the way you did and keep the rest I alrady put in. Ok Crna Gora 18:46, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I reverted the page to my last edit and I included what you wrote at the top of the family tree, that's what I meant. God! Crna Gora 21:04, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Petrović Family Origins

How are the Petrovići from Zenica, BiH? Where did you get this information? Get me this information and show it to me immediately. Otherwise, your little edit to the Zenica article relating to the Petrovići will be erased, until proof is shown.

The only information I can find about the origins of the Petrović family is that they were originally from Herzegovina. Please reply back, ASAP. Crna Gora 21:25, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Popisi

Pa imam nešto malo o tome sa popisa iz 1790:

  • Vojna Granica: Srbi (42.4%), Hrvati (35.5%), Rumuni (9.7%), Mađari (7.5%), Nemci (4.8%)
  • Kraljevina Hrvatska: Hrvati (98), Srbi (1%), Mađari (0.5%), Nemci (0.5%)
  • Kraljevina Slavonija: Srbi (46.8%), Hrvati (45.7%), Mađari (6.8%), Nemci (0.7%)

Izvor je: Peter Rokai - Zoltan Đere - Tibor Pal - Aleksandar Kasaš, Istorija Mađara, Beograd, 2002. Mislim da nemam podatke za Dalmaciju, ali pogledaću još. PANONIAN (talk) 21:39, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

U stvari to 1790 baš nije bio klasičan popis, već statistička procena iz tog vremena. PANONIAN (talk) 21:40, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bokelji

Pa nisam baš "completly free to work on the Bokezi". Trenutno radim na opštinama Srbije i Republike Srpske, pa kad to završim... :)) PANONIAN (talk) 15:16, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Note

My arm-related illness has complicated, a little. This will severaly limit my free time to edit, so I will only have some time to do minor edits. However, I promise that I will not give up editing wikipedia, and will do my best. P. S. - no simpathy please!!! :) --HolyRomanEmperor 17:33, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

<sick humor>Have I told you that you should find yourself a girlfriend?</sick humor> :-). Duja 10:12, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Duja's RfA

What happened here? No simpathy for your hand. My sympathy for your hand. --Dijxtra 22:24, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

WHY did you remove my support vote on Duja's RFA? Doing something like that can get one banned ASAP. TruthCrusader 04:27, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

If he's editing through a diff. edit this may happen by accident. You simply get no warning that you're no longer editing the latest version and the most recent edits since you started your edit and you click 'save' just get erased. I have documented the bug a while ago (I had the same problem a while ago). --Asteriontalk 16:52, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Veljko Petrović

Hi! I came across the issue of Veljko Petrović (important figure of the First Serbian Uprising), who Bulgarian historians claim is an ethnic Bulgarian from Lesnovo near Zaječar, his original name being Velko Petrov. This article, for example, also claims the source was the very Vuk Karadžić. Pretty sure, neither Hajduk Veljko Petrović nor sr:Хајдук Вељко make any mention of this.

Any suggestions as to how we should deal with this issue (I know Veljko must be a pretty important figure and a national hero in Serbia, but that doesn't mean the truth has to be hidden) or who I should discuss with? Thanks :) Todor→Bozhinov 12:38, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't think including it should be a problem provided reliable sources can be found. However, the link you provided is an internet forum (and I can't really tell if it was serious or trollish), and Google searches (I tried in Latin, Serbian and Bulgarian cyrillic) were fruitless. Duja 13:13, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
It's not a forum, it's some kind of web archive of the Bulgarian Army newspaper, and it's part of the Executive Agency of Military Clubs and Information website. As for Google, dunno... "хайдут велко" and "велко войвода" seem to be appropriate keywords and indeed, a number of relevant pages pop up. Here's another article, though I have to say pretty nationalist-sounding (pro-Bulgarian and anti-Serbian).
I also have a minor book source: a note by the (Bulgarian) editor of the Bulgarian edition of my History of the Balkans from 1999 by the French historian Georges Castellan mentions he's "Bulgarian by nationality". Not sure who of the two editors wrote that, but they both have an imposing list of titles in front of their names, so I assume it must be the prevalent POV among Bulgarian historians. Todor→Bozhinov 14:48, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, HRE, for the kind reply :) I know about that Bulgarian view on eastern Serbia. National identity up to the 20th century was quite a vague issue, so the majority of the population in these areas possibly didn't firmly associate itself with either nationality — it happened so that it was Serbia who received these lands from the Ottomans, and IMHO just then was the firm national identity of the Torlaks in Serbia established.
At times the First Bulgarian Empire extended over all of Serbia and much of Bosnia, and many areas of eastern Serbia were actually part of it for much of its existence, but that's just history: the Bulgarian Empire also ruled in different times most if not all of Romania, all of the Republic of Macedonia, much of Albania, much of northern Greece and Eastern (today Turkish) Thrace... that hardly means anything today :)
I didn't know of these versions regarding Miloš Obilić's ethnicity, and the English article doesn't seem to mention anything about it, but I doubt anything can be firmly established, as evidence is scarce and he's a mostly folklore figure. I'd be curious to know on what these claims of Albanian or Bulgarian ethnicity of Obilić are based, but I doubt the evidence would be anything near convincing.
As for Vel(j)ko, I particularly liked the History of the Balkans note as a source and I may add it, enough NPOV-ish, I hope, because after all it's just another POV that's perfectly worthy of mentioning. Todor→Bozhinov 19:50, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
I see... I knew the ethnic Serbian lands have been a bit different in the different periods, but all you said is quite curious. Obilić is a real legend, after all what he is thought to have done is a great feat. At least he deserves the fame, unlike Krali Marko/Krale Marko/Kraljević Marko/whatever, who as a historical figure was not a Christian hero at all, on the contrary, but somehow entered our folklore as a protector of Christianity. The same happened to our unsuccessful late monarch Ivan Shishman... for some reason :)
AFAIK Bulgarian historians do support these claims about the region of today's eastern Serbia. I've even heard South Morava was called Bulgarian Morava in the past, West Morava being on the other hand Serbian, but that may well be nationalist bullshit.
Ah, these Montenegrins :) I tend to believe in self-identification, so if one thinks of himself as a Serb, he's a Serb, and if one thinks of himself as a Montenegrin, he is one. We've got pretty much the same issues with the Macedonians (mostly historically), the Romanians have that with the Moldovans (which are even more ridiculous), but the issues of former Yugoslavia and its nationalities are most complex, which is a pity. Montenegro only complicated what was already a complete mess of ethnicity, religion and state, and Kosovo is going to make things even more complex. But we have to respect the people's will after all. Todor→Bozhinov 20:58, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] History edit

Dobar dan,

Ja bi zelio izbrisat neke postove na Wiki sto sam ja pisao davno. Ali ti stari postovi se opet mogu nac pod History. Jeli se moze to izbristat nekako? Jeli ja mogu to nekako napravit jer ja sam to pisao? Sigurno bi ja trebao imat pravo da brisem sto sam ja pisao.

Znam da mogu izbrisat na Discussion sto hocu ali i to ostane na History.

Jeli se trba to nekom javit prije nego se radi, i kako vidim bilo kakvi post ostaje za uvjek pod history...za mene to je glupo.

Ajde molim te javi se pa odo ja vise vani oveg Wikija.

Javit cu se i Panonianu...

God Speed Jagoda 1 22:42, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rename

User:Equilibrium already exists and maintains a low level of activity.Your requested name might cause confusion with this user.Is there an alternative name, or one a little more distinct from this user, which you would like?If so, please comment at Wikipedia:Changing username. Warofdreams talk 02:29, 28 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Razlog

Pana i HRE,

Ja bi volio dignuti sve moje discussions jer tek sad vidim da je sve to glupo. Ko je Hrvat? Koje Srb? Sto pripada nama sto vama itd........ Gluposti.

Pogledaj ovo...u jednom Hrvatskom selu zivi jedna familja prezime Mihaljevic, preko 500 godina su tu, prominli su vjeru kad su dosli iz Bosne. Danas ta familja ne kazu da su bili Srbi nego kazu da su Hrvati. Kad vidis to onda tek znas kako glupi ispadamo i mi u razgovoru o koje sta. Cjela bivsa Jugoslavija je misana...Tesko je reci pravu statistiku koliko ima Hrvata i Srba. To bi trebalo izvadit DNA da se vidi koje ko a samo pitat ko si? Isto tako cisto se vidi da je Ivica Kralj Hrvat iz Boke barem po imenu ali on kaze da je Srbin, Crnogorac i ponosan je na to. Kad su ga novinari pitali "vi ste Hrvat iz Tivat" on je rekao "Ne nisam".

Kako ja vidim i ti ces reci da sam u pravu...ovo je sve glupo...ispadamo glupi kad Englezi citaju. Smiju se nama svjet da se pripiramo. Trebamo pristat jer samo Hrvati i Srbi se jos pripiraju preko gluposti.

Svi smo isti....kad moze neko bito ponosan latino zasto ne biti ponosan Slav


Jagoda 1 04:04, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pa evo

Pa evo zasto tebi govorim. Mi se svi pripiramo koga ima vise na svjetu pa i koga je bilo vise u maloj Boki. Ja sam siguran da je Boka bila jednom naseljena vise sa Hrvatima..preko vremena i zenidbe i misanja mnogo tih Hrvata se sad zovu Crno Gorci pa i cak Srbi. To je jednostavno zar ne? Jedino se po prezime kao naprimjer Kralj moze znati da je neko bio Hrvat iako da se danas zove Crno Gorac ili Srbin. Sto hocu reci ima toga sa jedne i druge strane...sve je misano pa tesko je napravit statistiku o koliko ima Hrvata u Boki itd... Vjeruj meni da u Dalmaciji ima puno Srba koji se danas cisto zovu Hrvati... Razumis me...Jedino dna bio mogo reci koliko ima Hrvata a koliko Srba. User Srb i neki drugi neznaju history Hrvata i neznaju da su naprimjer Dalmatinci pogotovo isli vani u svjet mnogo prije nego Srbi itd i to brodovima Vencije, Turske, Spanjolske.... Glupo je reci da Srba ima vise vani Balkana nego Hrvata. Gledaj New Zealand gdje su Dalamtinci drugu najaci emigranti u toj zemlji..mnogo mjesta tu pisu Dobro Dosli na cestama....isto tako u Australiji gdje si viodio 7 Hrvata u Australskoj soccer repki na World Cup a nijedan Srbin. Tako je u mnogo zemlja na svjetu Hrvata uvijek ima mnogo vise. Na primjer u Argentina narod tamo kaze da ima 500,000 Hrvata tamo ali statostiac samo kaze 250,000...pa sam vidis da nesto nije uredu sa statistikama....3 i 4 generacija vise nije Hrvat nego Argentinac. That's my point. A koliko ima Srba u Argentini, puno manje. Milsim da 50-60-70tih Srbi i Hrvati su jednako isli vani ali Hrvati su isli mnogo ranije 1700s i 1800s itd.... Ima knjiga koliko hoces od tome, dobro je procitat nekad jer to je vrlo interesantno.

Jedna veilika stvar mnogo Hrvata su promili prezime, ozenili Britance itd....Kako kzaem ti dna treba a ne samo pitat kosi sta si?

God Speed

Jagoda 1 23:39, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] reply

Hi there HRE. No, I didn't hear about that. I didn't answer simply because I didn't have time at the time. I don't want to archive my talk page. You can find some more nuanced reasons if you read some old discussions carefully, but the short answer is - I don't want to and it's my prerogative and people need to stop asking about it aimlessly. --Joy [shallot] 00:31, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hello your Imperial Holiness

Dear Majesty, Holy Roman Emperor, his Imperial Holiness,

I give you my regards in your succession of reaching over 6000 edits.

I also wanted to ask you, why are you changing your username?

Also, it seems like you have switched to the pro-Serb side (no offense) rather than being a neutral figure in South Slavic History, well at least articles relating to the history of Serbia, Montenegro, and Bosnia. Why is that? Maybe it's because this is not the real HolyRomanEmperor before he got his account hacked. Maybe it's that imposter who hacked the account at the University of Belgrade. Oh well, it can be millions of possiblities.

Well goodbye, for now, your majesty, Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire, his imperial holiness.

Montenegro RULES!!!!!, Crna Gora! Crna Gora! Montenegro, Montenegro CRNA GORA!!!!!!!! 01:07, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please Archive your TALK PAGE!!!!!!

Hello your imperial holiness, why don't you archive this page. It's getting to long in size and room. Man, it's getting to be a neusance.

Bye

Montenegro RULES!!!!!, Crna Gora! Crna Gora! Montenegro, Montenegro CRNA GORA!!!!!!!! 01:10, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Severno Kosovo

Evo, nisam baš puno sredio taj članak (ne zaboravi da kad god napišeš članak, da mu staviš neku kategoriju :)). Koliko znam Srbi na severnom Kosovu nisu proglasili još uvek neku SAO, tako da je najbolja definicija za to područje "informal name". Inače postoji mnogo opširniji članak o tome koji se zove Kosovo Serb enclaves, pa baš ne znam da li je trebalo praviti i ovaj novi. PANONIAN (talk) 01:27, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Pa ako imaju posebnu vladu, onda proširi članak i napiši nešto o tome (ja ne znam ništa o toj vladi). Stavi u članak i neki spoljni link koji govori o tome ako imaš. PANONIAN (talk) 14:16, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Report

Someone with IP number 203.36.212.200 removed the section about North Kosovo in the Kosovo article recentlly. Just want to check it you noticed it. He or she also removed the external link with Hugo Roth, but I reverted that one. Litany 17:35, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rename

As requested, I've now renamed you User:PaxEquilibrium.You should now move your userpages to the new name, and I would suggest recreating this old account and asking an administrator to block it, in order to prevent impersonation. Warofdreams talk 23:34, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moving of talk and user page

There, I moved the talk and user page. You lost a total of 2 edits to your new talk page (Asterions and mine). BTW, Warofdreams suggested, username HolyRomanEmperor is now free to be registered. That means anybody can register it and create a total confusion. So, I suggest you create the account so then I can block it indefinetly so nobody can mess with it. --Dijxtra 10:26, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Medieval Bosniachood

There are sourced claims of Bosniakhood of people you removed from this article http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_Bosniaks&diff=71101922&oldid=70751197

you can find sources here http://geocities.com/famous_bosniaks/ —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Bosniak (talk • contribs) 02:17, 1 October 2006.

[edit] Your provacation

Your provacation is tellen to other users your karakter. You are not interest for Kosovo article but to diskriminet the users witch dont know so well english. Thate is all what you whant, this is part of your dirty games. I know thate the Kosovo article is full of serbian propagander but I dont wont to lose my time with you . My target is to make the minro for neutral users. And I have maked You all, cane not presante ONE UN DOCUMENT in witch is tanding "KOSOVO IS PART OF SERBIA". By, by loser—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.178.105.244 (talk • contribs) 23:09, 1 October 2006.

The rest of Kosovo article is mytologie beacose the head of the article is starting with mytologie UN dont accept thate Kosovo is part of Serbia. I dont know why, I dont to know only one think I know the UN members have forgetit this name Serbia.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.178.105.244 (talk • contribs) 23:13, 1 October 2006.

I have no idea how am I provoking you. No, I am not particularely interested in the Kosovo article - and I share discrimination for no one. I don't play dirty games. The Kosovo article is not full of Serbian propaganda - everyone has agreed to that version. I am neutral, you can talk to me about anythin', mate. I can't present one UN document saying "Kosovo is part of Serbia", just like I can't find a single UN document saying "Vojvodina is part of Serbia". What makes me a loser? What do you percisely mean by "mythology"? UN members haven't forgotten it - Kosovo is officially a part of independent Serbia. --PaxEquilibrium 23:21, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] HRE

You have changet your user name to complicet thinks like Serbia in Balkan or what is your target???—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.178.105.244 (talk • contribs) 23:15, 1 October 2006.

Serbia really did complicate things in the Balkans a lot, didn't it? :) --PaxEquilibrium 23:22, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] People trying to speak English

Nevertheless, Join my project: WikiProject Bosnia and Herzegovina. Pozdrav, Kseferovic 03:04, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name Change

Why? I liked the old one. It suited you. Davu.leon 13:04, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

He can't change it back, even if he tried. Someone else took his username and I guess is also Montenegrin because he is editing Montenegro-related articles. Crna Gora 18:00, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

In a good way. It was just a little confusing seeing someone else talking in the same articulate and reasoned idiom, expounding the same views, until I realised what had happened. Davu.leon 09:06, 3 October 2006 (UTC)


I know this isn't the place to post this, but I just wanted to say that reading your posts from the last week or two has greatly increased my respect for you. (Not saying that there was none before.) Living in Kosovo, it's very easy to have a slanted view on anyone who supports Serbian policy, but, although I disagree with many of your viewpoints, I find you to be consistently civil and reasonable. I hope that more people like you will be involved in contentious articles in the future, especially as we move towards a final status that is sure to anger at least one side of the debate, and that, regardless of our differences, we'll be able to reach a compromise without reverting to (virtual) fighting. Basically keep it up, you're doing a good job. Davu.leon 21:23, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

You're right, policy isn't exactly the right word. Let's just say that your natural sympathies seem to lie more often on the Serbian side, as mine would on the Albanian. And as for the views on which I disagree, don't worry, you'll hear plenty from me when they come up ;) Davu.leon 15:21, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] HRE active again

What the... OK, what's happening here? Are you editing Wikipedia as HolyRomanEmperor? Did you register the acc or somebody else did? --Dijxtra 19:57, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Well, it's no matter to you, but to people who don't know that you changed usernames it does matter since they'll think it's you. I'm blocking the guy ASAP. --Dijxtra 20:35, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
It's not a polity, it's just that you claimed to been a target of impersonation before, and you don't know who edits under your old username. It could well be the same person which took your identity last time, don't you think? I think we're better off by blocking in this case. --Dijxtra 20:47, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm not completely sure about the same identity.
There are some changes in attitudes, previously unthinkable that HRE would write something like this. Maybe I'm wrong, but have such a feeling. Kubura 13:42, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Odgovor

Pa znam da albanski korisnici optužuju Krisa da je Srbin, a još kad sam video tu reč, pomislio sam da su u pravu. :)) Što se Banata tiče, u vreme Turaka Srbi su bili najbrojniji narod u Banatu, s tim da su Srbi kompaktno naseljavali zapadni Banat, Rumuni istočni, dok je srednji Banat (sa Temišvarom) imao mešano srpsko-rumunsko stanovništvo, ali su Srbi preovlađivali. E sad otkud srednji Banat većinski Rumunski? Rumuni su se malo širili seobom, malo se mešali sa Srbima, pa se deo Srba porumunio, pored toga se i mnogo Nemaca naselilo u srednji Banat, pa su ih Rumuni posle drugog svetskog rata proterali, pa se naselilo onda tu još Rumuna, itd... PANONIAN (talk) 21:21, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Answer about my statement

Hello my friend! Please don't categorise the question of Trianon as an ancient historical event. I don't want to restore the border of Greater-Hungary. It will be unfair and wronger than the current borders. But the current borders are also bad and unfair. I live in Senta. Watch out for its demographics, please. As you can see mre then 80% of the inhabitants are Hungarian, and the remaining 20% is not only Serb. The situation is very similar in Kanjiža, Ada, Bačka Topola etc. We don't need to speak in Serbian because in most of the shops the trader knows to speak on the majority language. The other problem is the rising of the Serb extreme nationalism. Most of the settlers who have come from Republika Srpska, Slavonia causing problems because of the wars they have anti-"minority" sentiments and use violence against Hungarians. After the seccession of Montengro their number is growing and after the future independence of Kosovo there will much more chauvinist inhabitants. Just think about it. They escape from Kosovo just because they can't stand the Montenegrin an Albanian authoroties. This is my "short" answer about my point of view. If you want to know mre about it we should talk. I've always enjoyed to speak with someone who has moderate political views. Hey I am an idealist to! :) And also a war-efugee. What kind of idealism do you support? HunTheGoaT 21:27, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Oh sorry!:( My English is still not good enough. I've written that I am a war refugee, but I had thought that means to oppose wars. Sorry I'm was stupid. No I'm not a war refugee. Can I speak Hungarian everywhere in Vojvodina? Maybe in fairy tales. In the reality there is always some Serbs who want to hit me when he hears that I am speaking in Hungarian. The second problem is that I and many of my friends cannot speak Serbian well. Because the mode of Serbian language's education is very bad. On Serbian language lessons we learn more about the Serbian history than about the language itself. And the lections are mostly in somekind of ancient slavic language. It's not a joke. We sometimes read stories in pre-Vuk Karadžić Serbian language or in Macedonian. That's not very usefull. The education mode should be changed. Now I know the meaning of word war refugee and I became sad when I read it in the dictionary:( So you may have bad things in your memory when someone is talking about the Yugoslav wars. Why have you become a war refugee?HunTheGoaT 22:

[edit] Headline text

sdfsfsdfsd14, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I can't understand these pdfsdfsdfeople. Why they use there national sentiments to discriminate other. I like to be Magyar as you can see on my userpage. I like our nations literature the Hungarian poems are sdfsdfewrwoielfknosidoiweeflkjdsifoweiflkjflsdfsd

fsd fs dfsidjfiweoijfolidjfokweflkw owiefoiweoiwe owie owierwejfoid dfgjdfpo gpdfoig0erijgooidfh goidf gofdi jgodfijgodf jrbi de jebio sde the worlds more rythmic ones. And Hungarian is the language of vowel harmony as linguists say. My mothertoungh is one of the beutyful langueges in the world. I love my etnicity but this is not a reason to hate others. We shouldn't use our nationality to discriminate other cultures. In my opinio nall cultures are nice in their own way. So I am against cultural globalisation but I support the idea of coproductive nations. Can I ask where do you live now?HunTheGoaT 17:55, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Both of us live in the world. But in which city, town of village where you have a house or a flat. Where is the computer that you make your articles. With that computer you can connect with the whole world. But WHERE is it? This is just a simple friendly question that the people usually ask from each other. OK if you don't want to answer it that is your problem.

HunTheGoaT 18:35, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Yes of course you've answered it. I'm just a student at the moment so unfortunatly the school takes all my time and I've got no time for writing a lot of article but if I write one watch out for that please. I am intrested in your oppinion about them because you looks like a kind and a calm person whose statements are real valuable.HunTheGoaT 19:09, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Montenegro

I'm assuming you are the same guy I was having a debate about Montenegran identity? Here is my response:

Wait, wait, wait... Please re-read the list that I gave you - and tell me, would it be wrong to Consider Montenegrins Croats (or at least by origin). Just tell me that (and as I recall you supported 1's words of all Bosnian are ethnic Croats).

As I recall, I merely pointed to the observation that such a claim was probably a debased one & that in place of the word "all", the author meant "most". In the case of the notion that "most Bosnians were ethnic Croat", I would not find it a radical thing to say that. Having said that, I reiterate that such debates are usually devoid of academic value and subject to political manipulations. I would also consider such claims personally as having ambiguous meaning, what does it mean for a whole people to be ethnic <insert nationality here>, beyond a sense of cultural kinship?

Serb state control over the territory or control by a Serbian elite? What on earth are you talking about? The greater part of Montenegro speaks the root Serbian language - East Herzegovinian dialect, spoken also in Republika Srpska and West Serbia (and Dubrovnik). Dubrovnik, Herzegovina and parts of Dalmatia speak the same Croatian dialect. I have roots from Eastern Herzegovina and plenty of family in Dubrovnik (which incidently has alot of Croats from Herzegovina). Trust me on this one.

What I mean by state control is that throughout history smaller cultures/nations can seem non-existent, subsumed by a larger neighbour. Such is the case with the Macedonians and Slovenians, Bosnjiaks and Montenegrans.

The smaller part speaks an indiginous Kosovar Zetan dialect of the Serbo-Croat. Historicly, the Serbian language has been official in the constitution of 1910; and all Montenegrin works were written strictly in that language. the existence of similar or common language does not preclude separate identity as is the case with the Fins & Swedes for example. There's a problem here - Finnish is a lot more different than Swedish - and Finns don't call their language "Swedish language", but "Finnish" instead.

Again, under foreign state control, the dominant powers language would be imposed and considering the similarity of the languages, the process would be seemless. Just as you claimed that the independence movement has strong support from todays govt institutions, so too the unitarists campaign during WW1, and the first Jugoslavia would have had a free hand to foster assimilation into the Serbian identity.

There isn't a strong Montenegrin nationality today - with every census, more and more montenegrins opt Serbian nationality instead of Montenegrin and more and more montenegrins opt the Montenegrin language and the Montenegrin Orthodox Church, rather than the Serbian language or the Serbian Orthodox Church. The only strong Montenegrin national identity exists within the current nationalistic regime and the minority of the so-called "docleano-montenegrins", which belong to a radical group that's pro-Croat orientated, support Greater Croatian nationalist ideology, xenophoby and found quasi-historical research centers such as the "Doclean Academy of Sciences and Arts". Extremists don't deserve mention.

Yet, there is a strong enough Montenegran nationality for them to reclaim their independence in 2006 and is certainly not a case of doing it solely for economic reasons. Down near Cetinje, after the result was known, a minority of Montenegran nationalist were singing derogatory songs about Serbs and equating them to Chetniks. The WW2 attrocities from the war between Montengran Nationalists and Greater Serb Chetniks are still remembered by some.

To equate the Montenegran Independence movement as some orphan of Croat nationalism (through the history of Red Croatia) goes counter to some pertinent facts. For starters, the Montenegrans had independence pre-Jugoslavia Mk1. 40% odd declare Montenegran ethnicity at the last census. Montenegro has declared independence in 2006.

In WWII - what on earth are you talking about? The so-called "Kingdom of Montenegro" was ruled by a fascist Italian Axis puppet-regime that based itself upon the extermination of Jews, Romas and the Serbian element in Montenegro.

So was the Serbia under Milan Nedic and NDH under Ante Pavelic. Does that invalidate the notions of Serb and Croat nationalities or states?

Anyone declaring openly a Serb - was dispatched to Jasenovac, Kotor or elsewhere. In 1941 the people of Montenegro raised a Chetnik rebellion, which almost managed to overthrough the Governor's regime. With the help of the Ustasha armed forces (not many montenegrins decided to collaborate and fight), Governor Sekula Drljevic either slaughtered the Chetniks or fought-off the minority to the Royal Independent State of Croatia and/or to the Kingdom of Serbia. His next move was to eradicate anyone whatsoever related to the Chetniks and/or anything Serbian, when his Ustasha, Italian and other collaborationist corps ethnicly cleansed over 10% of Montenegro's population.

Are you are aware that disparate chetnik units collaborated with either Ustasha, German Nazis or Italian Fascists? So much so that the allies stop sending them aid. The Montenegran Chetniks were merely carrying out the plan to create Greater Serbia and to that end collaborated with fascists. Here's a link on the nature of such collaboration; http://www.vojska.net/eng/world-war-2/montenegro/chetniks/

Point is that a fascist government does not invalidate a national identity.

The fascistoid regime retreated to Zagreb, where it founded a Government in Exile after the Axis forces introduced martial control and were subsequently expelled by the Partisans; drafting there a constitution and re-writing the Montenegrin national anthem so that it could evade mentioning anything Serbian. In 1945, the People's Assembly of Montenegro declared In Montenegro live only the purest of Serbs, however, Tito responded by Montenegrins are Serbs, different from other Serbs, and a dark period of history came until it was formalized in 1946 that all Montenegrins, no matter of origin accept the Montenegrin nationality - naturally, only Serbs accepted this on large scale. It is not until 1974 that the Serbian element in Montenegro was eradicated, when the Communists mass-burned several Churches, including the personal endowment of Njegos himself.

It is a flaw to denote Montenegran Independence as some sort of Fascist invention. The same notion was tried with Croatdom despite it's rich history - hence I take any such notion with skepticism. The 1974 constituion was an attempt to short circuit the ongoing battle between fedaralists and unitarits adn formalise the equality of nations concept which was the foundation of the Partisan movement. Otherwise you would not have a Croatia or Bosnia or Macedonia Or Crnagora for fear of the Greater Serbia politics of the 1st Jugoslavia.

Whilst I concede that there may be some credence to the historical and cultural kinship you bring up, I think the notion of ethnic origin of a whole people is flawed, subject to misinterpretation and goes counter to modern day reality. croatian_quoll 07:41, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

This is the map of the 1954 linguistic census. It was made by Croat and international experts: "The Grammatics of the Croatian or Serbian language". The pink colour show the shtokavian iekavian speakers - of whome the vast majority speaks the east Herzegovina dialect - most/all of them were ethnic Serbs (except for Dubrovnik Croats - although that again turns down to their ol' controversy of once being Serbs).
What is iekavian? I was under the impression that there are only three standards of the Stokavian dialect, ikavian (Dalmatian and on the Islands), ijekavian (nominally associated with Croatian and used in parts of Slavonia, BiH, Dubrovnik, considered the pure standard by purists of the Croatian language), and ekavian (nominally associated with Serbian and dominant in Serbia, and also associated withthe Kajkavian dialect). I have never heard of half ikavian or ijekavian. I take the map with a grain of salt as I would anything that came from the 1954 Novi Sad agreement, because of the alleged duress from Communist authorities involved. The conference was a political attempt to artificially unify the Croatian and Serbian languages. croatian_quoll 06:14, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
You note Serbian state control - just problem is, there was no such. Serbia was created in the 19th century - while Montenegro practicly never ceased to exist (really formed in the late 17th century - drawing origins from even the early 16th). Compare the Montenegrins to Dalmatians - Dalmatians are nowdays assimilated into the Croatian national being.
Apart from the Serbian empire of the 14th century, you have the fragile state of Rascia which often was subjugated by the Bulgar and Byzantine states, and in periods of neighbours influence declining, Rascia would expand to include parts of BiH and Crnagora where after a certain time, Serbian princes established themselves. Dalmatian wasn't a nationality (unless you are referring to Roman/Illyrian inhabitants prior to the arrival of the Croats), It was geographic reference stemming from the name of the Roman prefecture. That geographic reference exists today. Dalmatia was the territory where the White Croats formed their state. Furthermore, there never was an indigenous Dalmatian independence movement. Autonomists were either local Serbs or Italians that sought union with their respective neighbours. Monenegro on the other hand has an indigenous population (that is not to preclude Serbs as a constituent nation of Montenegro), that voted for independence. croatian_quoll 06:14, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Comparison between Milan and Ante or Sekule, who were real leaders cannot be done.
I think the differentiation you make is artificial. Both Ante and Milan lobbied their political masters (Hitler) in order to curry favour. Both had their own forces in addition to occupation forces (German or Italian). In the NDH, the black legion had to move base from Mostar to Sarajevo b/c Mostar was in Italian sphere of influence and the Italians did not want an elite Croatian force there. Both had parts of their country carved out and given to a neighbour. Both were under the delusion that they were acting in their country's best interest (i.e. their collaboration was born out of existential reasons).croatian_quoll 06:14, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
There were many reasons for the 2006 Montenegrin seccession. And they were good reasons. But the truth behind it cannot stay hidden. Milo Djukanovich (who was unarguably a Serbian nationalist and descendent of those very same Chetniks) used/fueled Montenegrin nationalism to save himself from jail. While the top government's official have political immunity, Republican do not - and he is the most wanted man in Italy, not to mention his other henious crimes.
I find it hard to believe that 55% of Montenegro's population voted for independence b/c of Government propaganda motivated to keep Djukanovich out of jail (I don't question the possibility of the motivation, but I question it's relevance and relation to what the voters wanted and that was an independent Montenegro). 70 odd years of Jugoslavia and promotion of Jugoslavian nationality and barely 15% of the population considered themselves Jugoslav. Yet in Montenegro, you have 43%+ calling themselves Montenegran.croatian_quoll 06:14, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Please don't use "Greater Serb" - the actual term is POV.
The term is NPOV. It describes the ideology of appending all territory considered historically or ethnically Serbian to the current Serb boundaries. It is no different or no more POV than Greater Germany, Greater Albania, Greater Croatia etc.
Despite the Red Croatia theory and historical reference, and those who support it, there is a Montenegran nation that has more in common with the Herzegovinans (Croats and Serbs) and the Croatians in Dalmatia. And this nation voted overwhelmingly for independence whereas the autochonous Serbs voted against it. croatian_quoll 06:14, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
Check out the new reorder of the Balkans. The West sees this as the solution to the Balkan Question. While Croatia would receive a south-western Croatian-populated part of the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia and Montenegro are seen as "United Serb States" together with a part of the Croatian coastline at Prevlaka and the northern part of Kos-met; while the greater part of Metohija and Kosovo would become part of a greater Albania, together with most northwestern Macedonia
Certainly interesting but highly unlikely - especially in light of the Montenegrans voting for independence and likely independence for Kosovo. The prevlaka and Posavina issue also seems problemmatic. Is there a source outside the Njegos website that has any information on this?

With this - unfortunately my Cyrillic is a little rusty. :-) Well, there is no real clear definition of the difference between dialect and language. However, the unification of the Croatian and Serbian languages into Serbo-Croat was also political as was it's unravelling. It followed the pan-slavic groups and attempts to subvert Austro-Hungarian Hegemony via the vehicle of South Slav unity for some, an expansion of the Serb state for others. An example of this was the 1954 Novi Sad conference which tried to Serbianise the Croat language and in effect created one standard, as well the political repercussions including the Croatian Spring. But Croatian and Serbian, despite large sections of commonality are disparate languages in terms of their historical and cultural development (Croatian being more diverse - ca, kaj, sto - whereas in Serbian one standard seems to dominate), and differs in terms of the use of neologisms.

Is Serbo-Croat still an official language of any country / institution? If not, then does it not make it a dead language? :-)

I think it is true that Dioclea and even Bosnia would at times take over territory of Rascia. It's certainly the case that Dioclea was firmly in the Serbia sphere or orbit from about the 12th century? onwards. But the ethnic/national reality of today suggests that there was an underlying national identity that was overshadowed by the bigger neighbour to the north east. THe same applied to Bosnjiaks. The term more Montenegrins was for a state union with Serbia - how is this determined and what does it mean exactly? What is defined as Montenegran - those Serbs that have a strong Montenegran regional idenity, or those of the Montenegran nation, separate from Serbs? Has this type of national question ever been asked in a poll? If it is a poll question, then I can see big issues with the research design.

Milan Nedic had a government (see [[36]]), albeit a puppet one, and was in charge of day to day affairs, including the concentration camps such as Banjaca and the persecution of Jews and Roma. No different to the Petain government of Vinchy France. The Pavelic government, like the Nedic government was an unelected minority group imposed by Germany/Italy. The question of influence is a red herring - Ante and Milan were both collaborationists, with the supposed existential concern for their people, both took part in the machinations that resulted in persecutions and ultimately both caused their peoples great harm. If there was a difference, it would be in the view of the first Jugoslavia and their perception of it's makeup (federalist vs unitarist) or even association with it (independence vs maintenance).

The point about the Serbian medieval state is that it's history along with the SPC were the vehicles for perpetuation of an identity identity (initially elite based until the modern era of popular based nationalism). Thus, the interpretation of that state has an important influence in shaping modern national movenments - the same applies to the Croat medieval state, although Croatia was never entirely conquered by the Turks and perpetuity was ensured through state institutions and the existence of Croatia as a Hungarian/Hasburg crown land, initial as a whole and later as a triune kingdom.

I think you can sum up the likes of Djukanovic (and Milosevic) into one word - "careerist". However, there is one crucial difference b/w him and Milosevic - Milosevic tried to hang onto power no matter what. Djukanovic has won his elections, including the last which was free and fair (don't know about previous elections). And even after winning power, he has decided to retire (incidently, do you know why he retired?). What does the ICTY want him for? - the attack on Dubrovnik?

The fact that the head of state and head of the MPS are Serbs does complicate things. But doesn't preclude the existence of an Montenegran "ethnicity".

I am still interested in the New Balkan draft. DO you know where the Njegos site sourced it's information. Cheers, croatian_quoll 02:24, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Shkodër

Hi Pax, I see you've been having issues at the Shkodër article. Do you need any assistance? --Tekleni 15:49, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

I'll keep an eye on it. Interestingly, the dispute seems to be about languages - if you check the revision histories of Korçë, Sarandë, Himarë, Gjirokastër etc, you'll see quite a bit of edit warring over the names; they seem to consider it Greek irredentist claims to Albania. That's odd considering Albanian nationalists are claiming territory form almost all their neighbors. Also, sorry for changing my username (Special:Log/renameuser) in the middle of the discussion - I followed your example! --Tekleni 18:31, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Arpagjiki

Yes I'm aware that it was a plain removal. But that part of the article had no connection whatsoever with Albanian language, and because of that it deserved to be deleted. Thanks for the welcoming message by the way! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Arpagjiki (talk • contribs) 14:02, 4 October 2006.

There was a socalled chechen-albanian-english dictionary, the words that it contained had no meaning with english language. It's obvious that it was wirtten by some retarded guy who maybe thought that he had discovered america :P. These kind of things shouldn't be tolerated here in wikipedia! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Arpagjiki (talk • contribs) 07:44, 7 October 2006.

[edit] Constitution of Croatia

The text in question was changed in 1997 or so. The original 1990 version ran as I quoted, check it here. --Elephantus 04:26, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Hello, I was born in Trebinje but lived there only until the age of 6, then we went to Dubrovnik (Ragusan is my name here!!). Since 1982 I have lived with my wife in England. But my sister tells me it is typical autumn for Herzegovina (she is in Trebinje now). But I am still Balkanite at heart! :) Ragusan 23:17, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Serbs of Mostar

You want to help me out with this? I'd really appreciate it :) --estavisti 01:12, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re:

I'm from Montenegro. My mom is from Berane while my dad is from Podgorica. Emperor of Europe 15:55, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, no. I'm Muslim. How about you? (the clan thing) Emperor of Europe 16:17, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hello!!!

I just got back to Wikipedia, but I don't understand why you mean I was furious. Are you saying that because of my high anti-Islamic sentiment? Or, you may have another reason, which I don’t know. --Pjetër Bogdani III 03:32, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

It’s not that I hate Muslims or something... I respect their right to observe their religion but I don’t believe it is right for them to destroy our culture. You understand. I am not against Muslims who deal with their own affairs but I am against those who direct all their deeds against Christianity and/or Western Civilization.--Pjetër Bogdani III 01:57, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


And by the way I am really eager to find out why you called me furious…--Pjetër Bogdani III 01:57, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


I understand you. I have a lot of Muslim friends and I am OK with Albanian Muslims because they are oriented towards the nation and not the religion. It's their right to practice the faith if they want... But, I strongly disagree with what Ottomans for example did. Saudi Arabia, for instance, is fine for me because they don't bother anybody with their faith. But Iran is doing the contrary...--Pjetër Bogdani III 04:23, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Time Range of Serbdom as the official ideology of Montenegro

I wish I knew the answer, but,I don't. Nevertheless, in our quest to find out, I would make a distinction between Serbdom as an officially adopted state ideology and Serbdom being existent as only one of competing ideologies. Momisan 03:27, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I still don't quite understand your question. It looks like now you are asking: "When is the first time when terms 'Serb' and 'Orthodox' were equated. My answer to this is: the term 'Serb' is a moving target, i.e. its meaning to Montenegrin people changed through history. Montenegrins refered in the 'dark ages' to muslims as 'Turks' and to orthodox as 'Serbs'. In my opinion, this is due to the organisation of Otoman Empire in 'milets', each milet refering to a separate religion. Milet means 'narod', therefore narod = Orthodox = Serb. Montenegrins considered themselves as a part of 'Orthodox milet', but, they called their particular group Montenegrins. In short, my answer would be, roughly from the time Otoman Empire conquered present-day Montenegro onwards. Momisan 01:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
"As far as I understood, the theory holds that Montenegrins have falsly been Serbs just because of their religion, is that true?" Some people, like Radoslav Rotkovic, might come close to your interpretation. However, it all comes down to what was the definition of the term 'Serb' at a particular point in time. I would think that in the 18th century and earlier, 'Serb' = 'Orthodox', for the reasons I pointed out above. Montenegrins considered themselves as a distinctive group belonging to wider Serbian=Orthodox people. As they were uneducated people, whatever the Church promoted was a gospel. 19th century is a different story as it is a century of nationalist ideology in general. As you pointed out, the Ilirian/Great Serbian ideology of national liberation was developed and there is an obvious inconsistency in the way the term 'Serb' was used as it was now sometimes used for all three major religions ("lepo, lipo, ljepo i lijepo, latice su istoga cvijeta" - said Njegos. If you like, the term for Montenegrins meant similar thing to the present term Yugoslav. The next crucial moment in history is, of course, the rude awakening of 1918. The Montenegrins were not shown respect, the worst thing you can do if you understand their ethics. Furthermore, they finally had a chance to get to know the people from Serbia from direct contact and they realised they are actually diferent. As someone , was it Lincoln, said "You cannot fool all people all the time"... To sumarise, regardless of which angle you look from, Montenegrins always considered themselves a distinctive and separate group of people. They also understood they belonged to a larger family of the people language of which they could understand. You can call that larger group 'Serbs' , 'Slavs', 'Yugoslavs', take your pick. In political terms, they wanted unification with their fellow Slavs, but, only on equal terms and with mutual respect, as their ethical code commands. After a century of trying, they realised it is never going to work. Now, how about turning it all upside down, can you give me a brief run-down of the evolution of the term "Serb', as seen from the point of view of Serbia, through history?Momisan 13:31, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
I forgot to emphasise, in 19th century the term Serb for Montenegrins meant similar thing to the present term Yugoslav not to the present term Serb, which excludes non-Orthodox people.Momisan 01:43, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
My question was: What was the meaning/definition of the term Serb as seen from say Dositej, Garasanin, Vuk, Cvijic, Ljotic, Seselj, Karadzic etc. Did it change? Momisan 01:54, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. Yes I meant Radovan :-). As you know, Hitler was an Austrian, doesn't change the fact that Germans followed him. Only Radovan was born and bred Serb from Montenegro, not a Montenegrin. Thank God there is a distinction there. Anyway, you can't ignore the dark side of history as irrelevant. Cvijic is someone I would like to study more, but, his works seem to be rare as hens teeth on the net :-( Momisan 13:15, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Claims of distinct languages

There have been many claims on Wikipedia that some dialect of a language is a separate language, as part of nationalist aspirations of residents of some region, who want to be a separate country. The United States were indeed separate and equal states before forming the United States. When the Confederate States sought to dissolve their union with the United States in 1861, very curiously, there was no claim put forward at all that they spoke a separate language, even though anyone could instantly recognize their speech as different from that of a northerner, in accent, in grammar, and in vocabulary. The Southern speaker uses a familiar plural pronoun, "Y'all," short for "You all," as in "Do y'all need some help? And "help" would have been pronounced like "hep." Instead of "This farm" they might say "This here farm," pronounced like "Thishear famm." This is likely due to African influences in the Southern speech. Someone from Boston, on the other hand, like President Kennedy, would pronounce "I parked the car on the Harvard yard and went to Africa" as "I pahked the cah on the Hahvahd yahd and went to Afriker." Because of these differences in American speech, it is not a compelling argument for separate languages in other countries when someone says that in a few sentences one can tell whether someone is from one or another region of former Yugoslavia. In a few sentences, one can tell if someone grew up in Chicago or in a suburb of the city, or if they grew up in Brooklyn versus Queens or Manhattan in New York. Regards. Edison 15:18, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

No, but lowland Scotland claims to have a non-English dialect separate language: Scots language.--Tekleni 15:21, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ZAVNOs in Serbia and Slovenia

Hi there, history-man, could you fill up the gaps here:

  • Slovenia -
  • Croatia - ZAVNOH
  • BiH - ZAVNOBIH
  • Serbia -
  • Montenegro - ZAVNOCG
  • Macedonia - ASNOM

I just can't seem to find the last two and that makes me nervous... --Dijxtra 19:37, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

I found "Antifašistička skupština narodnog oslobođenja Srbije"... and for Slovenia, I guess you wouldn't know. --Dijxtra 20:17, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
Jesi siguran za ASNOS? Jerbo, google ne zna nista o tome... --Dijxtra 15:20, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Aha, bez A je. Dakle, samo SNOS. Oodlicno. --Dijxtra 15:32, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Ha, usporedi sam: [37], [38]. --Dijxtra 09:58, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Heya Pt2.

Thanks for the warm welcome man Zlatko 20:03, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Assume Good Faith

A fundamental principle of Wikipedia is to assume good faith and you have not done so. Secondly, there should be no links to disambiguation pages as per WP:D. Bosnia and Bosnian are all disambiguation pages and should not be linked to. In my edits, I changed

  1. Bosnia to Bosnia (region) [39] which is the right choice given the date of the subject in question.
  2. Bosnian to Bosniak [40] since the Bosnians article talks about the current citizens of Bosnia and Hertzogovina, which includes both ethnic Bosnians (Bosniaks), Serbians and Croations. Since the sentence also includes a link to Serbian, to distinguish, the link should be Bosniak as done. I will be reverting your change, so there are no links to disambiguation pages as per policy. Regards, -- Jeff3000 19:06, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
You should also read WP:DPL. Regards, -- Jeff3000 19:08, 13 October 2006 (UTC)
Find a better way to word the sentence to mark the subtleties, but don't link to disambiguation pages. -- Jeff3000 19:20, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Also from the Bosniaks page (which by the way is not disputed) it states:

"The term Bosnian is somewhat imprecise in this context, as it is used to denote all inhabitants of Bosnia regardless of ethnic origin (i.e. not only Bosniaks, but also Serbs, Croats or any other group in the country)."

and

"The earliest (genetic) roots of the Bosniak people can be traced back to the ancient populations that expanded into the Balkans following the Last Glacial Maximum 21 thousand years ago."

-- Jeff3000 19:25, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, after re-reading the Bosnians and Bosniaks pages, I don't believe that there is an inherent POV being implied, and think that the links are the correct ones for someone with no understanding to understand the situation in the best possible way. If you feel strongly, go and change the links, but just don't link to dab pages. -- Jeff3000 14:09, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
Because Bosnians article refers the citizens of the current country. -- Jeff3000 23:31, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
I don't understand your accusations of POV and I personally feel there is no POV implied, but if you feel strongly, go ahead and change the links. At the same time, please stop bothering me; it might sound bad, but I've spend enough time reading the articles, and to my mind there is nothing wrong, and more importantly it's not that important to me. Regards, -- Jeff3000
Once again, I believe the Bosniaks article is better than the Bosnians article which includes Croat and Serbian ethnic groups. This is my final comment on the issue, check my contributions to find the links. -- Jeff3000 00:27, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Farewell Milo

I don't have any wested interests in Milo,however, I think it is a loss if he leaves politics at this stage. What is your opinion? Momisan 02:44, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, was not online a while. Indeed it was for work that I came to England in 1982, I had qualifications in English, movement was free and easy for us in Yugoslavia and I landed a job at a London based advertising company. I now live 40 miles outside of the nasty city! Of course I still have family in Dubrovnik, Trebinje, Kotor and most of the rest in Zagreb, with one or two in Rijeka. You are free to ask, I keep no secrets! :) Ragusan 11:36, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Oh good Heavens no that was not the reason Pax, I was gone well before the problems happened, I served in the army first in Backa Topola and finally in Strumica (Macedonia), I had very good friends from all over the former Yugoslavia including two room-mates both muslim, we all kept in touch for years after our service and I am still in contact with 90% of them now - to us, the war is as though it never happened. A lad called Halid served with me in Strumica, he is from Srebrenica; whilst the massacres happened, he sat at home, nobody forced him out, nobody bothered him - he was not selected by the Bosnian Serbs for expulsion/death as he had no links to the Muslim rebels; equally my nephews today are the same. Trebinje had little to worry about during the conflict but one of them was living in Tuzla at the time, he (is Croat by declaration) too had no fears and all from having kept out of politics. I am glad to say that my whole family is largely outside of the problems, one reason I have never called myself a Croat even though in the eyes of most people, that is what I should be. Ragusan 22:29, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] All hail Romania!

"All hail Romania! (if you're still there!!!) --HolyRomanEmperor 13:31, 16 September 2006 (UTC)"

Imaš nekih saznanja gdje se čovjek nalazi? Čovjek ko da je u zemlju propo... Luka Jačov 19:04, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Holy = Pax

[edit] Gift

Nerazumin sto si ti meni narparvio na user page. Vec je tako bilo prije. Nemam poja ocemu pricas. Moguce je da si to napravio prije ali ja sam mislio da mi je to napravio neki iz Zagreba Nikola.Jagoda 1 22:47, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re:

Pa koliko ja znam Srbi, Hrvati i Slovenci su bili priznati kao narodi pre komunizma, dok su za vreme komunizma priznata još tri - Makedonci, Crnogorci i Muslimani. Ja se dobro sećam da sam u osnovnoj školi učio da Jugoslavija ima 6 naroda (kojima je Jugoslavija matična država), dok su narodnosti (koje su imale matičnu državu izvan Jugoslavije) bili Albanci, Mađari, Slovaci, itd, itd. Dakle, u bivšoj SFRJ su se koristila upravo ta dva pojma - narodi i narodnosti, i potpuno je jasno šta je koji označavao, pa prema tome nema svrhe da sad "izmišljamo" pojmove "nacija" i "etnička grupa" koji se tada nisu koristili. PANONIAN (talk) 01:55, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Znas nesto od ovome?

Nikola Tesla... He refused to receive the Nobel prize which he had to share with T.A. Edison. In 1942 the American Supreme Court decided that Tesla invented the Radio, not Marconi. Vidim da i jos danas kazu da je Marconi izumio radio, jadan je "nas" narod kad i ono sto su izumili nije njima dano. Dalo se Taljanu i jos dan danas Taljani slavu tog Marconija. Kakva je to pravda, kako niste to javili na site Tesla i Marconi. This is important a ne odakle je on... origin itd.

PS Ajede reci kako ti znas pricat i pisat Makedonski???...reci razumis malo, malo ...jedva i ja njih razumin mozda 20-40%. Ajde sto sviras da znas taj jezik hahaha a Slovenski jos gore...da si rekao Polish 1 ali in njih je tesko razumit 30%

Jedan Zidov is Gruzije se meni javio na Wiki pa to me iznenadilo..razumi i pise perfektno Srbo-Croat...covjek je legenda..a ja sam uvijek mislio da nas jezik je mali jezik i nije nesto special. God Speed

Ti jesi HRE zar ne Jagoda 1 03:37, 16 October 2006 (UTC) javi se na moj talk..

[edit] Unspecified source for Image:CroatianSerbs.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:CroatianSerbs.jpg. I notice the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you have not created this file yourself, then there needs to be a justification explaining why we have the right to use it on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you did not create the file yourself, then you need to specify where it was found, i.e., in most cases link to the website where it was taken from, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the file also doesn't have a copyright tag, then one should be added. If you created/took the picture, audio, or video then the {{GFDL-self}} tag can be used to release it under the GFDL. If you believe the media meets the criteria at Wikipedia:Fair use, use a tag such as {{fairusein|article name}} or one of the other tags listed at Wikipedia:Image copyright tags#Fair_use. See Wikipedia:Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Nilfanion (talk) 08:39, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] All hail Romania!

"All hail Romania! (if you're still there!!!) --HolyRomanEmperor 13:31, 16 September 2006 (UTC)"

Imaš nekih saznanja gdje se čovjek nalazi? Čovjek ko da je u zemlju propo... Luka Jačov 19:04, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Holy = Pax



[edit] Pojmovi

Pa ne sumnjam da ćeš u različitoj literaturi pronaći pojmove "etničke grupe" i "nacije", ali u SFRJ su se zvanično koristili pojmovi "narodi" i "narodnosti". To su bile službene definicije statusa neke grupe. PANONIAN (talk) 01:46, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Barnstar

Pah, that reply was the worst kind of waffle. And it was slightly incivil. But if you're awarding me the barnstar for deleting 12,000 useless pages, then that's OK ;) – Gurch 12:00, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] On Kubura discussion

What's this Paxy on Kubbies discussion????? You say Croatia wanted to rule Serbia WHAT A JOKE..kad je to bilo??? kad smo bili zajedno u Persia mozda a ne u modern history... Yugoslavia ended because Serbia wanted to rule all of Yugoslavia. Slovenia and Croats had no say so they wanted out. Nobody would stand for Greater Serbia under the banner Yugoslavia in the 90s and that Milosevic rule. Serbia didn't have to attack Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia...Serbs just needed to give equal rights to all the people of Yugoslavia. Serbia is to blame..i don't see how anybody else is. Why was Macedonia able to gain independence without problems? Croatia and Bosnia was more of a loss to Serbs that's why they attacked. Croatia has NEVER wanted to rule Serbia bet that mate...but has Serbia wanted to rule Croatia??? ...YES..and you know it

Wake up..sram te bilo. Pa zna i svaka budala zasto je bio rat. Kako su Rusi pustili Ukraine i nisu se tukli???. Kako su Grci pustili Makedoniju i nisu se tukli???


Jagoda 1 03:14, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

PS Zasto nisi uzeo ime "Holy Roman Emperor 2006" svak te zna kao HRE..steta di si prominio ime. Ali nije vazno Paxy moj mili.

Slusas onog Srpskog pjevaca Keba? Pravi si Keba hahaha Jagoda 1 06:27, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hej

I hope that your comment was sarcasm. Look at the messages above (on my discussion page) where you wrote: "Thank you for inviting me". I asked you to join. (The only thing that is missing is the coat of arms in your invitation). Thanks, Vseferović 21:32, 19 October 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Hej Slaveni

Ajde zapevaj... "Hej Slaveni jos ste zivi......dok za narod srce bije .....zivi zivi duh slavenski"

Who wrote the song?

Jagoda 1 06:00, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] You are formally re-invited to the WikiProject BiH

I, Vernes, invite you, HRE, to join my project. Knowing your great reputation, I believe you will be able to contribute a lot to the project. Please reply. Thank you, (This is sarcasm from me, and I believe it is sarcasm fro yourself, too).

P.S. do not forget to sign, I thought the message was left by Thunderman. Vseferović 21:00, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mapa

Da, to je bila prvobitna granica sa Albanijom koja je važila do 1926 kada je uspostavljena sadašnja. Znam takođe da su i delovi Bosne proglasili ujedinjenje sa Srbijom, ali mapu sam bazirao na mapi iz knjige "Nestajanje Srba" (Tomislav Bogavac, Niš, 1994). Međutim nisam siguran da li je vlada Srbije prihvatila odluku o ujedinjenju delova Bosne sa Srbijom. Znam da je prihvatila odluke Crne Gore i Vojvodine, ali (sad pričam po sećanju), mislim da sam čitao da nije prihvatila odluke naroda iz Bosne da se političari u Zagrebu ne bi zbog toga bunili i da tako i Zagreb lakše pristane na ujedinjenje sa Srbijom. PANONIAN (talk) 23:49, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Kosovo

This case is now closed and the results have been published at the link above.

For edit warring, personal attacks, and other disruption, PerfectStorm/C-c-c-c is banned from editing Wikipedia for one year. For edit warring and incivility, Bormalagurski is banned from editing Wikipedia from one year. For edit warring and disruptive use of sockpuppets, Dardanv under any username or IP, is banned from editing Wikipedia for one month.

Hipi Zhdripi is limited to his one named account, Hipi Zhdripi. All edits by Hipi Zhdripi under another account or an IP address shall be treated as edits by a banned user.

Ilir pz, Hipi Zhdripi, Vezaso are banned for one year from editing articles related to Kosovo. Relation to Kosovo is to be interpreted broadly so as to prevent gaming. Either may be banned from any related non-article page for disruptive editing. All articles related to Kosovo are put on Article probation to allow more swift dealing with disruption. Editors of Kosovo and related articles who engage in edit warring, incivility, original research, or other disruptive editing, may be banned for an appropriate period of time, in extreme cases indefinitely.

ChrisO is warned not to engage in edit warring, and to engage in only calm discussion and dispute resolution when in conflict. He is instructed not to use the administrative rollback tool in content disputes and encouraged to develop the ability and practice of assisting users who are having trouble understanding and applying Wikipedia policies in doing so. .

Dardanv, Ferick, Laughing Man, Osli73, and Tonycdp are placed on Probation for one year. Each may be banned from any page or set of pages for disruptive edits, such as edit warring or incivility.

Ilir pz, Hipi Zhdripi, Vezaso, Dardanv, Ferick, Laughing Man, Osli73, and Tonycdp are placed on standard revert parole for one year. Each is limited to one revert per article per week, excepting obvious vandalism. Further, each is required to discuss any content reversions on the article's talk page.

For the Arbitration Committee. Arbitration Committee Clerk, 03:42, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I did because it was the old const. of montenegro... i thought it needs to be the current one--Albanian since Stone Age 22:37, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bokelji

E izvini, ali trenutno stvarno nemam vremena da sređujem taj članak. Imam već dosta stvari koje sam planirao da uradim, a ne mogu da uradim ni njih, jer umesto toga radim ono što nisam planirao, već što mi drugi ubace na watch listu. :) Pokušaj sam da središ taj članak, jer ja stvarno sada nemam vremena. PANONIAN (talk) 01:58, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Music

I hate indie rock. User:Mig11's favorite bands were all indie or something like that. See My favorite genres of music. You will than understand why. --Aeternus 09:01, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

I feel so honoured, that you guys are so "interested" and worried about my music-taste. --Mig11 10:25, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, but a translation made by each of us will not be proved as neutral. --Aeternus 18:20, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Noah30

Hello. My intention was not to be unfriendly, it is sad if you have interpreted it that way. I wanted to write to you but did not have time. Wish you a wonderful Sunday.--Noah30 14:42, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

OK! I am sorry! It said that Montenegro is part of Yugoslavia, that's why I got confused!--Albanian since Stone Age 18:20, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Const.

Yes, I see that there should be new constitutions now. I can assure you that Kosovo is preparing its constitution that will define it as an independent republic, and this will be ready by March 2007. By the way, the constitutions of Serbia and Montenegro indeed seem to have some huge mistakes.--Albanian since Stone Age 19:34, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Claiming someone else's land...--Albanian since Stone Age 20:05, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

I believe that Kosovo will be independent and there is no need to mention it in the new Serbian constitution. Then, you will have to write a new constitution without Kosovo.--Albanian since Stone Age 20:35, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

You're right about 1990 const., but I'll never forget that under this constitution, Serbia drove out of their home one million people that were supposed to be her citizens with equal rights. This is why Albanians are seeking independence for Kosovo, because they do not trust any Serbian law… By the way, laws in Serbia are fair de jure, but not de facto… I don’t understand how this can happen! Or, those guys ruling Serbia are always doing the contrary of what law says.--Albanian since Stone Age 21:16, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Sorry

Hey, no problem! I don't mind at all. Cheers, —Khoikhoi 03:00, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: your question

you asked me if I am from both Canada and Croatia. I could not find a tag that says Canadian Citizen, but yes born in Croatia and now a citizen of Canada, currently residing in Vietnam. Do yo mind if I ask how did you manage to find my user name and why you decided to write to me? Is it in any official capacity? Did I inadvertantly do something wrong? Anyway while I am askig questions, tell me how would you refer to medieval currency used in Dubrovnik? And how would you wite about it if expresing a sum of money? Obviously the wiki manual of style US$ for example might be a bit unusual for non existant currencies? What do yo think? P jeric 04:12, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Answer again

Hi! I know it. But ask "grandmaster" PANNONIAN about the question. HunTheGoaT 21:00, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

He have written the montenegrin langue in the babel-bar too. HunTheGoaT 21:20, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Hey listen my friend! I don't want to imagine nothing. What are you talking about? I am not intrested in questions like the Montenegrin language is different than Serbian. I think not even Croatian is different. A Serb in Kosovo. Those Serbs will come here and they will cause nothing just problems. Just imagine those who you had been talikng about previously are in a better situation than the minorities in China or people in North Korea. It is not a silly thing? Serbs have already attacked me in the street because they had heard me speaking Hungarian. If I were not lucky, they may kill me. So please don't talk about the harmony. The only reason of this "harmony" that in Kosovo Albanians and Serbians attack each other, in Croatia Serbians and Croatians do the same. The only reason of this "peace" is that Hungarians don't attack Serbians. We are the majority in Senta but we do not attack the Serb minority. The minority is aggressive with us. So ask this pro-Tito, pro-partisan PANNONIAN about his statements. He is intrested in problems in Montenegro because I am realy not. I want to settle down in Hungary. I want to escape from this fake-international-multiethnical and ideal "harmony". I don't want to be a soldier who fights for Kosovo. I hate Serbia, I hate Vojvodina, I hate Senta. I prefer Vajdaság and Zenta. But what I realy love is Hungary and EU. So please don't tell me about these silly barbarian South Slavic conflicts. I think that the Croatians, Montenegrins and Serbs are the same. Most of them loves that they can hate each other. That is a shame, because they are brothers. And the last thing: Kosovo is an Albanian territory not Serbian. Sorry for the phrase but I realy shit on it. Enough answer? It was just a joke to write that Montenegrin as a different language. Good night my friend. If you have any more questions about my statements, please ask. HunTheGoaT 22:43, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Serbia is not my country. I don't hate Zenta just the name Senta. 27% have voted fo the SRS and 12% have voted for DSS. The first is an extremist the second is a moderate natinoalist party. So 39% of voters have nationalistic zeals. This is nearly the half of Serbian voters. And the opposing 61% including not only Serbs. So I have a good reason to fear. I am a Hungarian in my language gyűlölni means to hate, utálni means to dislike. I just dislike Serbia.HunTheGoaT 17:34, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Witch questions are that I did not answered? My country is Vojvodina, not Serbia. Vojvodina is the part of the Republic of Serbia but iu is not Serbia. Anyway I do not recognise Serbia as my homeland. I live here because I must.HunTheGoaT 18:36, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

LOL, mister Hun, I do not believe that it is what they teach you in that Grammar School. For your information, Vojvodina was known under name Serbia (Rascia) from the 15th century onward (check this map from 1590 where Vojvodina is mentioned exactly under this name: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6e/Rascia_Banat01.jpg and there are more similar maps of course). Also, do not forget that between 1849 and 1860 Vojvodina was known as "Voivodship of Serbia". It is well known who and why invented the "story" that Vojvodina was not Serbia in the past, but that "story" is nothing else instead of wishful thinking. PANONIAN (talk) 02:31, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
  • 1. Vojvodina is the Autonomous Province of Serbia. But it is not Serbia itself. In Vojvodina what people usualy call Serbia is Central-Serbia.
See above. :) PANONIAN (talk) 02:31, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
  • 2. The 88% of Kosovo's population is Albanian. The Serbian government hasn't got power in Kosovo. Kosovo is going to become a totaly independent state and I think it will be merged into Albania.
  • 3. I don't like the Serbian society itself. I don't like the lifestyle in Serbia(also in Vojvodina). This society has negative effects on all people. I feel the influences on myself but my personality is fighting agains this influence.
  • 4. The leader of the DSS, the Serbian PM itself declare himself as a moderate nationalist. DSS is not a realy negative party but it divides the democratic parties. Their greatest political rival is not the SRS but the DS.
  • I forgot the SPS's 8%. 27+8 is 35. Anyway extreme nationalism is very popular in Serbia. If we add the DSS's 12% the total nationalist(including the moderates) voters are around 47%. That's a big problem.

HunTheGoaT 19:28, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi! You didn't say any wrong thing. I am just very tired, you konw. I am still a pupil and I haven't got enough freetime. I'll answer you tomorrow. Sorry.

HunTheGoaT 19:43, 31 October 2006 (UTC) Hi! Sorry but I can't discuss with you. Because PANNONIAN is one of the people who I had written about in your oppinion role. And he always boykots my edits on Wikipedia. He is always says that Vojvodina is just the land of Serbs. Vojvidina is the country of people who lives there and not belongs to one nation. Thx! P.S.:And Belgrade was a Hungarian territory in the past. But does it counts now?HunTheGoaT 17:53, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

No mister Hun, I never said that Vojvodina belong only to Serbs. It belong to all its citizens as it is written in its statute. I simply do not want to tolerate people who all the time want to push their POV that only Serbs are evil and that Serbs are always guilty. And by the way, mister Hun, can you talk about people about anything else instead about me? PANONIAN (talk) 03:50, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
And two more things: 1. Vojvodina is not a country, and 2. Budapest was a Ottoman territory in the past. Does it counts now, mister Hun? :))) PANONIAN (talk) 03:52, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikiprojects

Because, I suspect, most of them are started up by napaljeni klinci with no appetite to do any actual work. They are joined by a multitude of people who seem to join and never look at the project page again, so what's the point? I only stayed on Wikiproject Serbia, because that one has a prospective future, especially if it becomes pan-Serb (Srbija, RS, CG) project. --estavisti 21:58, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Belgrade

You may be interested in Belgrade's FA nom. Please do not vote in favour simply because it is an article about Belgrade, but rather on the article's merits. If you feel that it is not good enough, please vote against. --estavisti 05:47, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thought you might want to know...

User:Thunderman has been blocked. (This is regarding the issues of the BiH Wikiproject). He was a sockpuppet of User:Hahahahibo. Thanks Vseferović 01:36, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Boka i Kosovo

Pa ja u zadnje vreme baš i nemam vremena da radim i na srpskoj Vikipediji, a ništa te ne sprečava da sam popraviš tamo šta misliš da treba. Što se tiče te mape Kosova iz 1999, ona uopšte nije tačna. Ja sam već nacrtao tačnu etničku kartu Kosova sa popisa 1991: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Kosovo_ethnic.png a verodostojnost moje karte se lako može proveriti na ovom sajtu gde imaš podatke sa popisa 1991 za sve opštine u Srbiji: http://www.anem.org.yu/mape/index-en.htm PANONIAN (talk) 15:18, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Dakle samo za primer, u opštini Istok je po popisu iz 1991 bilo samo 12.70% Srba i Crnogoraca, dok ona mapa koja navodno prikazuje stanje iz 1999 pokazuje da su Srbi bili većina u toj opštini, da ne pominjemo i da pokazuje da su Srbi bili većina u Prizrenu, što je smešno. PANONIAN (talk) 15:24, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Mapa u članku Serbs of Croatia je tačna, ali ova koja pokazuje Kosovo nije. Evo ti tačna etnička mapa Kosova koja pokazuje etničku većinu po naseljima: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Serbia12.jpg Inače, ne znam poreklo i pravni status te mape, pa je ne možemo koristiti na Vikipediji, ubacio sam je samo da je vidiš. PANONIAN (talk) 01:17, 26 October 2006 (UTC)




[edit] Hey (thanks)

Kind of... What do you think my chances are? I would say I am qualified since I try to put in neutral points of view and know the English language really well, but tell me the process. Are you an admin? Vseferović 00:26, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

I never had any trouble with Croatians, but I did have tons of trouble with some users (huge conflict(s)). That would cause much trouble. But we have cooled it down in the past few months. Vseferović 00:43, 27 October 2006 (UTC) --PaxEquilibrium 00:47, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
I'll think about it. Thanks for the suggestion. My main issue is that, while I was still a young user, many of my edits are under my IP address. I may need some time to get more edits, looking at the fact that I was/have been focusing on the Bonsian Wikipedia, returning just recently. Vseferović 03:22, 27 October 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Site

E znam da postoji sajt sa tekstom DAI (čitao sam ga ranije), ali se ne sećam adrese. Probaj preko google search da ga nađeš. PANONIAN (talk) 15:05, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sorry pal...

Pa Paxe, nisam mislo da ispane kao uvreda. Samo sam htio da pojasnim moj pogled da nisam fundamentalista i da mogu sa svim suradjivati. Ja licno ne znam kako se karakterizujes, mozda jugoslaven, hrvat,... jos jednom izvini ako je ispalo kao uvreda. Hvala, Vseferović 16:57, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kosovo

Hello. Well, I considered Kosovo to a past conflict because the Kosovo war ended in 1999 after the NATO airstrikes forced the Kumanovo agreement and the end of military belligerence. However, I don't consider it to be past conflict. It is conceivable that war could start again but the situation in Kosovo has dramatically changed for the betterment of the vast majority of Kosovars in the past 7 years.

Anyway, as towards your question, I think independence is the only real option, if only from a practical sense. There are 2 million Kosovar Albanians and they will not accept anything less than independence, compared to a couple thousand Kosovar Serbs that sadly will probably leave Kosovo by en large if they haven't already. I think the option that will cause the most conflict is if Kosovo gets greater autonomy with the possibility future independence. Anti-UN feelings will increase significantly, as they have over the past few years after they were welcomed as liberators in 1999. Widescale rioting could occur and the situation will most likely become violent (against both Serbs, Roma and United Nations personnel). If Kosovo does indeed get full independence (as its smaller cousin to the west did recently), their should be financial concessions made to Serbia in the form of help with the "ethnically" Serbian IDP's. The agreement will probably also stipulate the Kosovo can never join any form of Pan-Albanian union aka Pan-Albania. If all this happens, it will probably encourage separatists in Republika Srpska to try and join Serbia, so this will have to addressed in any agreeement in order to consolidate BiH. What are your thoughts on the past conflict / current discussions?--Thomas.macmillan 16:13, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

  • I will respond in full later, but just to clarify, when I referred to Kosovo's smaller cousin to the west I was speaking of Montenegro.--Thomas.macmillan 20:07, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
    • Apologies for not responding. I simply haven't had enough time to sit down and write a thorough enough response and continue with my wiki duties. I am a university student and my break is forthcoming, so I will respond after a week or so.--Thomas.macmillan 01:59, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] DAI

"Nema nigdje, za sada cu ostaviti da su stanovnici Rashke, Bosne, Travunije, Zahumlja i Paganije bili Hrvati."

Pa znaš kako, mislim da sam negde čitao da je Porfirogenit prvo napisao da su Srbi naselili sve te zemlje, a onda je to isto napisao za Hrvate, odnosno odeljak njegovog rada koji se odnosi na Srbe je u velikoj meri identičan odeljku koji se odnosi na Hrvate. Dokaz više da smo svi jedan narod. :))) PANONIAN (talk) 02:39, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Prvi put cujem...ali javi meni ako saznas vise...volim historiju. Jagoda 1 21:59, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Hey

Odgovorio sam ti na mojem talk-pageu. Nisam vise opce aktivan na Wikipediji jer nemam net doma, a ni vremena. Jakiša Tomić 17:07, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Afrika paprika

I have no intrest in unblocking this user due to relentless disruption and other things, but you are welcome to ask another admin or bring up a post about it on AN/I. Thanks for asking me about it, though. Hope you understand. // Pilotguy (Cleared to land) 21:58, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

No intrests right now on that, but keep me posted on how it goes. // Pilotguy (Cleared to land)

[edit] Klot

Imao sam prepirku sa Panonianom o asimilaciji, i onda sam na brzinu sastavio skicu zašto je teško postati (pravi) Srbin (Zašto je asimilacioni potencijal Srba nizak?).

  • 1. Orthodoxism- treba li da objašnjavam?
  • 2. Cyrillic alphabet- pogledaj novi ustav o pismu
  • 3. Celebration- postoji podatak da je bivša SRJ u vrhu neke liste sa blizu najviše slavljeničkih (neradnih) dana. Koliko se samo slavilo 29.Novembar posle raspada bivše SFRJ? A podatke o efektivnom radu posle tih terevenki ne možeš naći ni pod tačkom razno.
  • 4. Gun- to je stariji brat onog "jebeš Bosanca bez ćakije" inače karakteristično za još neke balkanske narode.
  • 5. Xenophobia- nivo nepoverenja i sumnjičavosti prema strancima i manjinama (raznih vrsta) je vrlo visok - do bola. Kako bi ti okarakterisao izjavu bivšeg ministra zdravlja Obrena Joksimovića datu još dok je DSS participirala u Đinđićevoj vladi da "jedan Mađar ne može biti direktor zdravstvene ustanove". Koji bi tu sveopšti potres bio kad bi na primer Margit Savović (primer šanta jer nije domorotka ali sad ne mogu da se setim neke druge opštepoznate osobe da je član manjine (čak i jezičke) a i da je upletena koliko-toliko u politiku) postavili za ministricu (sic!) odbrane. Pre nekoliko godina u Finskoj je postavljena žena za ministra odbrane i to još iz redova Švedske manjine. Koje sve uvrede nije pretrpela Ivana Dulić-Marković od srpske štampe samo zato što ... I nikom ništa.

I pošto je to bio frket prostim izvrćanjem se dobije klot tj. karakteristike Srpstva.

Ako smatraš da bi trebali dopuniti još s nečim slobodno dopuni, nije pet sveta krava samo me je asocirao na f.p. of W. Bendeguz 22:32, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Nije baš ravno sve do Bosne, jer pravi Srbin ni poraz ne priznaje. Pogledaj samo od boja na Kosovu pa do današnjih dana svi porazi su pretvarani u pobede kroz deseterce. Tu ne postoji mea culpa, jer to je znak slabosti. Zato je potreban jedan Bošnjak, da potpiše haške otpremnice i nizašta drugo. A u "nekad bilo danas više nema" tip odgovora (po želji overen sa još prco mater ako lažem) ne verujem, jer vuk dlaku menja, ali ćud nikad. Bendeguz 22:20, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Adoption

Congratulations!

Congratulations on your recent adoption, PaxEquilibrium, and welcome to Wikipedia! I saw that you have expressed an interest in being adopted by an experienced editor. Being an experienced editor myself, I accepted your request. Whether you want to learn about wiki markup, find something to do, or just talk to somebody, I'm the person to see about it - just leave a message on my Rat235478683. Remember, I am willing to help you and make your time here more enjoyable. Feel free to ask me any questions you might have, and remember to "be BOLD!"- I'm here to help you; no question is a stupid one. In the mean time, here are some pages that you might find helpful, in case you haven't already gotten the offical welcoming:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome and congratulations!

[edit] Istria

Sorry, I failed to understand your statement :( --TheFEARgod (Ч) 23:16, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Baranja

Pa već smo o Baranji pričali. Ona je samo privremeno bila pod upravom narodnooslobodilačkog pokreta za Vojvodinu dok se ne utvrde granice između republika. PANONIAN (talk) 23:51, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hey

I'm doing fine, thanks for asking. Yes I live in Croatia now and studying Croatian. How are you doing? Everything okey? I read the postings in your poll it is very interesting, you probably know me by now and that I cant restrain myself to get involved in this kind of stuff. Thanks for the invite, I will take part of this the next time I find time for wikipedia, sadly not today. Haha I dident get insultet. Croatia is great, although I think Sweden is the best. But I cant compare Sweden and the Balkans, since I love both. Btw where did you find the whole list of Serbian spiritual sites in Kosovo? Take care - Litany 19:28, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tribe/clan terminology

Hi, I see some substantial editing in the article 'Serb clans'/'Serb clans of Montenegro. And because most of them were done by you, I write my comment here. Since I see that there are some problems editing this article I would suggest the following:

1.1. there needs to be drawn an agreement on the terminology. I was suggesting using native terms (my arguments are explained in the discussion page next to the article). I would not call it 'serbianization' since such a practice exists in English language where it is better using native terms to avoid misunderstanding (for instance - Yakuza, instead of Japanese mafia and mafia itself).

1.2. I can understand the wish of using terms 'tribe' and 'clan' and 'brotherhood' (again see my objections to all those in the discussion page). But in case these English terms are used, their usage should be somehow in consistance with the traditional English usage of these terms (please see the relevant Wikipedia articles for that). In short, tribe is an assumed collection of somehow related people outside state system. Tribe refers more to political organisation than to kinship. Clan is a group of people who believe to be descendants of a common ancestor (sometimes mythical and not always human) usually the whole line of the ancestors cannot be reproduced. A lineage is a group of people who believe to be descendants of a specific person in history and usually can trace the whole line down from that particular person. Both, clan and lineage refer more to kinship than to politics. Now, you will notice that in this context 'pleme' corresponds better to 'tribe' and 'bratstvo' - to either 'clan' or 'lineage'. Certainly 'clan' cannot be used to translate 'pleme' since members of one 'pleme' can be descendents of totally unrelated persons who arrived and settled down in a territory of a pleme on different times and from different areas. 'Brotherhood' on the contrary is usually a religious or otherwise in English means a fictive kinship and therefore does not fit in Montenegrin case.

2. In order to avoid nationalistic outbursts (of the kind - 'they don't know what they really are' or 'historically they were not Montenegrins' etc) I would suggest re-orienting this article into a territorially-bound. That would mean - this article should be about the plemena/bratstva or tribes/clans on the territory of the current Montenegro. In this way we could do away with many problems and improve clarity of the article. By the way - that would mean that also analogous Albanian social institutions should be mentioned. That might also mean that the reference to plemena and bratstva who once were a historic reality in other territories but who have no substantial meaning in current Montenegro, can be safely excluded from the article. Perhaps there is a necessity to divide the article into one which would be more history oriented and would talk about all the 'ancestral clans' and one which would deal with the territory of current Montenegro. With regards --Bezvardis 22:01, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bormalagurski

Why do you keep deleting Boris' userpage? This is only done for users that have been blocked indefinately and will never edit Wikipedia again. Boris has the right to come back in a year, and no matter how long that seems to you, it still doesn't give you the right to remove material from HIS page. An infobox about the block is now added on top, and the page should be left untouched, just like any user that hasn't been blocked indefinately. --Svetislav Jovanović 05:48, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

You just don't get it, do you... How dare you remove Boris' name from the WikiProject Serbia list of Participants? He CREATED the project, and you just remove his name! You know, he was one of the only ones that wanted to help during your problem with the hoax, and I know that he felt really bad about what happened, but now you're behaiving like such a traitor and pain in the ass. Now go report me for a personal attack, but I don't care... --Svetislav Jovanović 03:21, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hello again.

Hey Pax. If you're inviting me to chime in on your poll, I'd love to, but it'll take me a few days to collect my thoughts - kind of busy at the moment. As for where I live, I'm currently in Pristina, and I've been here since late June, but I'm Irish by birth. Kosovo is the first Balkan country (province, whatever,) I've spent any real time in, but I hope to get a chance to see some of Serbia next year. Maybe after the snow melts, I'm told Belgrade is really nice in summer. Davu.leon 16:41, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

There's a lot of us here, weirdly. One of the major guys in the electricity business here is Irish. (No relation to me. Which is good since judging by the power cuts he isn't doing a really good job. ;) Davu.leon 09:33, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Edits

I don't like to edit articles as it might start an edit war. I don't want to get involved in that. I much prefer to discuss on discussion page to see and learn more about what people really think. From what i see here on Wiki ...some views/theories are so much more different to what you read in books. Very interesting. I have learnt a fair bit just by talking to people in particular User: Panonian. In my view books are POV of the author and where he/she is from, not always truth. I could write a book on anything and any view, doesn't make it truth, hence when someone lists sources as back up to comments here on Wiki I sometimes laugh.


You have 8,000 edits......that's heaps. I will need a lifetime to get to that.



Jagoda 1 21:57, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

9,000 I TO SVE STO IMA VEZE SA BALKANU I BALKANCIMA HAHA. DOBRO, ALI JOS PISE NA TVOJ USER PAGE DA GOVORIS MAKEDONSKI. OK RAZUMIS OVO "KAJ SE..UTRE SABALJ"

Jagoda 1 02:09, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re:Constitution

Hello.

The constitution of the Republic of Macedonia is basically the same from 1991, but with slight modifications. Take a look at this (in Macedonian) or this (in English). Feel free to ask further. Cheers, Bomac 00:23, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

No problem. Поздрав, Bomac 00:25, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I couldn't find a version of 1974. This is an article in mk.wiki about constitutions of R. Macedonia. Bomac 11:03, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Interesting

By impressed what do you mean? I prefer the Latin script but I am neither attacking nor against the Cyrillic script. Bosnia did use the extinct script of Bosancica. I did not understand your "P.S." comment. Vseferović 03:08, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Clan terminology (2)

I don't understand what you mean by cited terminology. I don't see any substantial sources cited in the article aprat from what I have mentioned and PRECISELY because they are inconsistent in translation AND some authors do not translate (for instance M.A.Durham) these terms, I suggested to use the native terms (in consistence with Durham). Translation of pleme as clan is: a) only one of versions (minority by that) in English language literature b) a clear mistake on the part of these sources (which often tend to be written by non-English speaking authors as I understand and which tend to use clan and tribe interchangeably) c) misleading for people familiar with the terms

Secondly, people today live in many different parts of the world. Many clansmen for instance live in Australia or the US. This could be a matter for another as yet not performed historic research to establish these ties. However this should not be the basis for calling them 'Australian clans' (as they have their own) or something like that. At the same time there is a heated debate in Montenegro as you know on national identity and it cannot be solved in any manner. So some people will continue believing a part of people in Montenegro are Serbs, some - that they are Montenegrins, and some - that they are Slavonised Illirians etc. This article also cannot resolve this controversy and it would be better to stay away from the politics. Therefore I suggested to stick to the present political territory as I believe such a policy can free from unnecessary political struggle.--Bezvardis 09:06, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hey...

I understand my comments about one year ago, but I am not saying I am against Cyrillic. I'll be honest I do not prefer it, but hey if you use it it's ok with me. What's happening with you today. I have a day off. Greetings, Vseferović 17:32, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

To be honest, the reason Bosnians do not like Cyrillic is due to its affiliation to Serbia culture. As you know, the war was between Bosnia, Serbia, and Croatia so now we are all trying to further separate from one another. Bosnia is trying to change its culture as are Serbia and Croatia. Within the culture is language and everyone is attempting to change it as much as possible, in order to be different from the other. Bosnia, Croatia, and Serbia have issues that are not resolved. The easiest thing that should have occurred was the implementation of the "Yugoslav" people. Everyone should have been forced to be called Yugoslavian. If uprisings had been to come up, then it would have been subdued by the government and soon by our generation. Everyone would have called themselves Yugoslavian. There would have been a less likely chance for war. Thanks and greetings, Vseferović 18:21, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Ovo si dobro napisao PAMETNOJagoda 1 02:25, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Radovane, delijo

All Karadzici come from "Serbian" tribe Drobnjak. Just ask.Momisan 13:27, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Independent_State_of_Croatia#Population

Can you reference this section? It's not that I don't believe to the figures, it's just that it would be nice to have references. Thanks. --Dijxtra 16:48, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ???

Hey, I was wondering why did you want to be adopted. My only guess is that you did it just for the heck of it. Am I right? Pozdrav, Vseferović 22:06, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


[edit] ur contribs

If u ask me, they're ok, but at this moment I'm not (at least yet;) qualified to make that statement. I agree with u on most historical issues if that's of any significance. Cheers User:NeroN_BG

[edit] ANSWER

Ok,ne slazem se sa tobom ,vezano za Kotromanice .istoriska je cinjenica da su Kotromanici bili pravoslavci koji su priznavali papu kao vrhovnu vlast,a ne SPC.Kasnije su naslednici prihvatili islam,kralj Tvrtko I je poslao Kosacu u Kosovsku bitku,koji je komandovao trecinom srpske vojske,sto je veoma znacajno.Znam da su Srbija i Srbi trn u oku mnogima,pa ako ima neki problem obrati se srpskim administratorima.Promeni ako mislis da bi trebalo to vezano za Tvrtka.... User:bg007 U pravu si,proverio sam i izvinjavam se!tacno je da su u pocetku bili pravoslavci,a sta su onda bili ako nisu Srbi,pa cak i kad su promenili veru.po toj logici pravolavci danas u Bosni nisu Srbi,katolici nisu Hrvati,...Pozdrav! Pa naravno da Bugara nema u Bosni,to sva deca u evropskim osnovnim skolama znaju.BTW Bugari uopste nisu slovenskog porekla ,nego turskog.Samo su uzeli tradiciju,kulturu Slovena.Proveri!Pa dobra,sta su onda pravoslavci i katolici u Bosni?Izgleda da su svi bili Srbi pravoslavni,pa da su vremenom prelazili u katolicizam i u islam.Sta su Dalmatinci poreklom,razlikuju se od kontinentalnih Hrvata po svemu.Prezimena su im drugacija(gle cuda ista kao i u Srbiji,CG i Istocnoj Hercegovini,cak i fizicki drugacije izgledaju od severnjaka.Vatikan je poceo da sprovodi ideju ,da su pravoslavni samo Srbi,katolici samo Hrvati.Zasto?Zato sto su tada u Austro-Ugarskoj i Turskoj,po popisu ziveli Srbi-katolici,ali ne i Hrvati-pravoslavci.Naravno do pocetka proslog veka Muslimani su se izjasnjava ili kao Turci ili kao Srbi muslimanske veroispovesti. To bi moglo da se uzme za pretpostavku,zaista, dosli su iz Bugarske.Tamanili su ih svi od Nemanjica do Ugara.Kog su porekla uopste bili Bogumili?Cini mi se da su vrsena nega genetska ispitivanja Srba,Hrvata i Bosnjaka i da je nedvosmisleno utvrdjeno da je genetska struktura gotova identicna.Naravno to su pocetna ispitivanja, a napredak tehnologije ce nam sigurno dati tacne odgovore i resiti nedumice ,pa i istorijske zagonetke.Vreme pred nama ce nam sigurno dati odgovore.Pozdrav prijatelju!

[edit] Red Croatia Pamplet

Interesting bit of information. But I question whether it constitutes Greater Croatia - it looks more like an attempt at Greater Montenegro with land claims on Croatia, BiH, Serbia and Albania, with close regional ties to Croatia that would play the role of a benefactor and counterweight against Greater Serbia. Think along the lines of British and Russian support for Serbia. Also the closer ties it proposes is similar to the stabilisation pact of EU/NATO for the region (minus Serbia).

Also, do you have any credible sources for the claim that Tudjman wanted a Croatian Orthodox Church in Montenegro? - this sounds far fetched too me (certainly if there was to be one it would be in Croatia?). Sounds more like an attempt by disgruintled nationalist Serb elements in Montenegro to undermine the legitimacy of Montenegran independence by painting a conspircay theory of Croatian involvement - almost as good as the Vatican and fourth reich conspiracy theories. iruka 02:46, 13 November 2006 (UTC) (it's Marinko - changed alias from Croquoll to Iruka (dolphin in Japanese)

Hi Pax (HRE), how are you? I am still around, all though dont edit much anymore. In reference to the above Crvena Hrvatska pamphlet you have been posting around, i am quite familiar with it. It isnt a pamphlet from Brkovic as far as i know, rather a scare campaign by the pro-serb parties to scare off voters from voting for an independant Montenegro. The idea was to say if you believe in a Nezavisna Crna Gora, then it could be swallowed up by our evil northern neighbours - the Croats. Its all politics as far as i know. Anyway, whats new with you? Uvouvo 04:01, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Hahaha, it is a pity, and a laugh :) Anyway, your right, i have seen that map used. What i meant is that pamphlet was put together for political purposes. Uvouvo 22:37, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
The above comment by user Uvouvo does make sense. In any case, if Montenegro wants to go it alone, it needs support from the EU and neighbours like Croatia to act as a counterweight against the influence of Serbia. Judging by comments made by Dodik in BiH and Tomislav Nikolic, the dream of a Greater Serbia still exists as a distraction to the social and economic reforms Serbia must undergo, so the fear of Serbia would be legitimate on the part of the Montenegrans.
As for Greater Croatia including parts of Serbia, this certainly is fantasy only entertained by a very small minority. It appears that Tudjman had no pretension and any form of Greater Croatia (before BiH declared independence) would have only restored the boundaries of the Banovina Hrvatska or just included Western Herzegovina. After that, Croat influence in BiH was merely for geo-political reasons, and once BiH had stabilised and was no longer see as a source of potential instability, the Racan government stopped the previous HDZ govt's policy of funding the Herceg-Bosnia entity. iruka 01:43, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for your input!

Thank you for taking part in my RfA. The RfA was not successful, mostly because I did a pretty bad job of presenting myself. I'll run again sometime in the next few months, in the hopes that some will reconsider.

In the meantime, one of the projects I'm working on is A Wikimedia Administrator's Handbook. This is a wikibook how-to guide intended to help new administrators learn the ropes, as well as to simply "demystify" what adminship entails. If you are an administrator, please help out with writing it, particularly on the technical aspects of the tools. Both administrators and non-administrators are welcome to help link in and sort all of the various policies regarding the use of these tools on wikipedia in particular (as well as other projects: for example, I have almost no experience with how things work on wiktionary or wikinews). Users who are neither familiar with policy or the sysop tools could be of great help by asking questions about anything that's unclear. The goal is to get everything together in one place, with a narrative form designed to anticipate the reader's next question.

A second project, related but not entailed, is a book on wikimedia in general, with a history of how various policies evolved over time, interesting trivia (e.g., what the heck was "wikimoney" about?), and a history of how the wikimedia foundation itself came about and the larger issues that occurred during its history (such as the infamous "Spanish Fork").

Again, thanks for your input on the RfA, and thanks in advance for any help you might be able to provide for the handbook. --SB_Johnny|talk|books 14:43, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The "other" project

Yup, that's really a book that should be written, and written by us (the wikimedians), before it gets written by some crusty academic looking to dismiss our efforts. Sure, we screw up sometimes, but when you look at what we've accomplished, only a fool would shake a stick at it.

I made an outline for the book a month or two ago here, but I've been too tied up with other projects since then to make a serious try at working on it and asking for contributors. With Jimbo going semi-emeritus now, I think we'd better start getting this stuff down (wiki style!) before the beginnings are forgotten, because sooner or later we're not going to have all that many of the "first generation" still here and interested in talking.

I'm not part of the first generation, and frankly I'm more than a bit daunted by the prospect of asking the first gen people to tell their story, but perhaps if we got the story started and asked them to correct us?

Anything I can do to help make this happen, I'll do. Please stay in touch! --SB_Johnny|talk|books 22:26, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] jag

kao djete su uvjek govorili da sam sladak kao Jagoda..pa tako su me zvali Jagoda i jos me zovu to familja i prijatelji. Jagoda je moj nadimak Jagoda 1 02:19, 14 November 2006 (UTC PS Ajde javi se na Makedonski malo haha Jagoda 1 02:23, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Constitution of Serbia

COUNTRIES RUSH TO INCLUDE KOSOVO IN THEIR CONSTITUTIONS, AFTER SERBIA 'S MOVE

After Serbia included Kosovo in its constitution, other countries from the region have declared their intentions to do the same. They point out that they are doing this in line with their good neighborly relations policies. The governments of Albania, Bosnia, Croatia and Hungary have made it clear they are planning to adopt new constitutions which mention Kosovo in their preamble. They say they must stand by Serbia, just as they did in the original Battle of Kosovo in 1389.

A Croatian government official said "We fought in that battle together with the Serbs, we lost in that battle together with the Serbs and we should remember that battle together with the Serbs." A Hungarian representative echoed him, saying, "Hungarian soldiers fought and lost side by side with Serbian soldiers." A Bosnian government spokesperson said, "If King Tvrtko would be alive today, he would be very proud of us." Albanian representatives stressed, "Teodor II Muzaka didn't give his life in vain in Kosovo, we Albanians realize, just as our Balkan neighbours, that it was an important loss." Commenting on these moves, a Serbian official said, "Both Prince Lazar's body and his head would be turning in his grave, if he knew that his Balkan war buddies' sacrifices were not being respected. By including Kosovo in their constitutions they show that this lost medieval battle is as important to them as it is to us." When asked whether "the fact that the Serbs were on the winning side (the Turks), too, complicates the situation?" the official answered, "It doesn't matter if Vuk Brankovic fought with the winners, what matters is that a Serbian prince (Lazar) led the losers!"

The government of Kosovo plans to include Kosovo in the new constitution, too. When asked by SEE Online whether that was necessary, a spokesperson replied, "Duh! We lost in that battle, too! We not only lost, but we hosted the battle. We are so proud we hosted that bloodbath, that we will mention it in our constitution more than one time." He reminded us that another battle had been lost in Kosovo by Janosh Hunyadi (in 1448), and that this doubles the responsibility of Hungary to include Kosovo in its constitution. Albania’s responsibility would have been double, too, if the Serb forces didn't interrupt Gjergj Kastrioti - Skenderbeg, in his way to assist Hunyadi in losing the battle to the Turks.

A Turkish government official said, "We can't express the regret we feel that we won those battles. This makes it impossible for us to include Kosovo in our constitution. In fact, this is making us reconsider the motives behind the Serbs' decisions to help us win those two battles." He added, however, that Turkey plans to include other battlefields in its constitution. "The Albanians kicked our butts in no less than 27 medieval battles! We just have to include those battlefields in our constitution, and Kruja will be first in the list." He said, they also plan to include Austria in the preamble, because, "one of our most glorious losses was at Vienna."

France has declared that they want to commemorate the Battle of Waterloo in their new constitution, even though it is not a medieval battle. A French official pointed out, "Everyone is remembering their Waterloos, and we have to remember our Waterloo, too. And, our Waterloo is Waterloo, Belgium."

A member of the European Medieval Association said they are thrilled with the decisions of these countries to include medieval battlefields in their constitutions. According to her, "In no way should Serbia, or any other country, be seen as having a medieval mindset, if it includes the site of a medieval battle in its constitution." She adds, "You have to know where you lost your medieval battles! And what better way is there than by mentioning them in your constitution?!"

In the meantime, a local entrepreneur in Prishtina, Kosovo, has begun selling ready made constitutions which include Kosovo in them, where all you have to do is fill in the name of your country. "With the surge in demand for new constitutions with Kosovo in them, I figured I have to work on the supply side." The Kosovar government, on the other hand, has enabled a feature in its website through which you can automatically "Add Kosovo to your constitution" with just a click of the mouse for only 25$.

SEE Online asked some Kosovar citizens about this. A library worker expressed complete shock that somebody was asking her opinion about the matter. She says "I can't think of any good reason why should anyone ask us Kosovars whether they should include Kosovo in their constitution or no! Seriously. Can you think of one?!" A shopkeeper shows similar surprise: "When has anyone asked us whether we want Kosovo in their constitutions?! Anyway, how is that going to affect my daily business here in Kosovo?"

Disclaimer: All characters and statements are entirely fictitious and any similarity with real characters or statements is completely coincidental.


posted by --Albanian since Stone Age 04:47, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

This is where I got it from [41]. It sounded funny to me so I just wanted to share it.--Albanian since Stone Age 15:48, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I fixed it. However, it's just the same text.--Albanian since Stone Age 20:12, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hercegovina

I realised while editing Herzegovina that we don't have an article on Stefan Vukčić Kosača. Perhaps you'd be the person to knock something up? :-) --estavisti 11:51, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Slavic Ancestry Userbox Template

First of all, this is the 1st time I'm replying to someone, and I'm not sure if the reply should be written here or in my talk page, so I apologize in advance if I made a mistake :)


I believe we actually have three SAME-TYPE templates ;)

I wasn't aware of the existence of your template, and this is the first template that I came across:

Slavic This user is of Slavic ancestry.



I didn't like it much, so I decided to freshen it up by adding a picture of Slavic countries in the ID box. I wasn't aware that users were obliged to use template userboxes, as opposed to creating their own, but if that is the case, I'll change/delete mine to be in compliance with the rules.

However, I must admit that I still prefer my solution to yours - while Pan-Slavic flag was approved as the official flag of all Slavic nations more than one century ago, I have a feeling that it's slightly outdated and obsolete, and that its colours fail to represent and include those Slavic countries whose flags sport other colours (Ukraine, Bulgaria, Poland, Bosnia, Macedonia, Montenegro, etc.). For that reason, I believe that the map of Slavic-language-speaking countries is a better way to represent Slavdom, since it includes all the countries where a Slavic language is spoken.

Pozdrav! :)

- Dugouha 13:28, 14 November 2006 (UTC)


By saying that the map was obsolete, I was merely expressing my opinion. Of course it is still in use, and it is officially as legit as the map, it's just that I like the map better. Matter of personal tastes :)
As for your comment about the map, I'm not sure I got it right. What do you mean by "is it logical?" And which countries should the map represent if not those in which Slavs hold relative or absolute majority?
Thinking now... you might be referring to those countries in which Slavic immigrants are numerous, yet fail to represent majority (e.g. USA, Australia, Canada, etc.)... Well, they might feel left out, true, but I'd like to remind you (them?) that the stress here is on ancestry and the map shows those countries which their ancestors most probably came from. Heck, I'm one of those minority Slavs, and I don't feel left out ;)
Finally, the remark about Russia's Siberia and Far East is apparently totally irrelevant, as it is obvious that the map is cut off for the purpose of space economy, and that by including Russia's European part, it implicitly includes the whole territorry of Russia.
Anyway, the bottom line is that we seem to be bickering about matters of personal taste, which is futile per se - k'o što ono kažu, svijetu je teško ugoditi. A i dosta je bilo svađe među Slovenima (posebno balkanskim) zbog kojekakvih gluposti i bez ove naše prepirke :)
If your userbox hasn't already been set as default/template Slavic Ancestry userbox, maybe we could make a poll or something, to see which one other users prefer. If it has been set as a template, then it's fine by me - I'll change my page to make it rules-compliant, after all, you're here longer than I am, and I'm sure you know the ropes better than I do :)
Just let me know what to do.
Sve najbolje!
- Dugouha 00:43, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
p.s. seems I entered an extra character when replying, and it messed up my subtitle formatting. It's fixed now, sorry about that :)
- Dugouha 00:58, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Look at this

Names of Battle of Kosovo in different languages. If you know something else, please add it. I will answear your poll toworrow, and I'm looking forward to it. Best regards - Litany 18:20, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hvala!

Kako ide? Hope it's all good! Thanks for visiting my page. Doviđenja! The RSJ ¿Qué? 00:54, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Izvini, ne znam Bunjevački :) - The RSJ ¿Qué? 01:16, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Questions

You support the independence of Montenegro - but it's not jeoperdized. It's nice that you feel enthusiastic about a country's sovereignity - but what's the purpose if there's no reason?

Also, how's in Saudi Arabia? --PaxEquilibrium 20:52, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry for the late answer. I think I just forgot to edit my userpage in a long time, that's why its still there. Thanks for telling me. I'll see if I should keep it there or not.

As for Saudi Arabia, life is well uh... different you might say. Army surrounds lots of things and quite boring for me living here. --Petrovic-Njegos 06:34, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Greetings

Greetings to you too! Your articles seem quite good and NPOV to me, but I must say I'm interested in history, but just that - I don't have any deep knowledge, my field of education is law:) So I can't actually contribute much, I just further educate myself and translate some articles to Serbian wiki. Best regards, Velimir85 19:18, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome to the Military history WikiProject!

Hi, and welcome to the Military history WikiProject! As you may have guessed, we're a group of editors working to improve Wikipedia's coverage of topics related to military history.

A few features that you might find helpful:

There are a variety of interesting things to do within the project; you're free to participate however much—and wherever—you'd like:

If you have any questions, please don't hesitate to ask one of the project coordinators, or any experienced member of the project, and we'll be happy to help you. Again, welcome! We look forward to seeing you around! Kirill Lokshin 19:30, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Possessive, not Obsessive

Dunno, I respect your enthusiasm and energy, however, your texts ARE fairly single-sided. Also, I can understand how you feel when someone starts to edit "your baby", we all are a bit possesive, for sure. However, we have to accept that there are other people with, perhaps, opposite opinion. Also, little bit of self-criticism (like every good communist;-) goes a long way.

As for Sideshow Bob, I had a look only at his edits on Grand Duke Mirko Petrovic, and I pretty much agree with them. I think we should all remove any nationalist labelling (Serb, Montenegrin etc.), as it doesn't really add any value to the text and it is clearly pretentious and with an agenda behind it. As long as you are persisting in keeping these labels (as in Serbian cyrillic etc.) I cannot but see you as a nationalist. Anyway, it's much more colourfull on Wikipedia with you and CG around. I trully appreciate what you have done. Momisan.

[edit] Balkan military history task force

Hi there. I see you joined up to the task force. I have made some suggestions at the talk page of the task force: Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history/Balkan military history task force#How to organize this task force. If you want come and discuss the proposals. Kyriakos 08:48, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


[edit] You from Yuga, Serbia?

We need information on the exact day the Yugoslav war ended with Nato, was it June 11 or 10th? How is life ther? I spent some time in Croatia as a student, I understand your language, not much difference, i think yuga was one great country.

10 June 1999. Life's horrible. Just horrible. No comment... and I'm from Yuga, but not Serbia. :) --PaxEquilibrium 11:46, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

I there, i had to take some classes in zagred some time ago, but that was after war, why did macedonia ever separate, i mean, exceltp slovenia, (partially) all other 5 republics stink and are going nowhere... So, you are sure june 10th was the end, i recall official signing was june 11th? Final bomb was on that day? So what's wrong in yuga, you guys can not go travel much? what part of yuga u from?

Macedonia firstly supported Milosevic, but Macedonian nationalism and fear of the growing Serbian nationalism kicked in. It wanted, in the likehood of Slovenia, to be "free". Yes, June 10th was the end of it. I'm fro Croatia's Frontier, but I'm now in Belgrade. And no, we don't travel at all (actually, depends what you consider by "travel" :) --PaxEquilibrium 23:21, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ??

pa....

jel ti to stvarno?! pravi hrvatski vracas na pogresni?! --VKokielov 01:35, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

kada izigravas ples s persiranjem, izgleda sizofrenicno. --VKokielov 00:05, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
Translation: When you dance around with "ti/vi" (tu/vous), it looks schizophrenic. --VKokielov 00:06, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
I would be very careful what I say about me. Not only have I edited Wikipedia, less than five hundred times in the past four months -- how much of that has been interaction with users? -- but, also, it so happens that the only one I bump into is you. Only you. That should tell you something. As should your failed RfAs, and the fact that Serbs from Serbian Wiki voted against you. --VKokielov 00:14, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
"altogether with other weird edits of yours (like on Jakov's user page, which altogether you in anger, totally against WP:Civil, justify like someone just threw a nuke at you [when it was just introducing in Wikipedia's policy]) have been completely unconstructive to this Project. " What are you talking about? If you mean the "it looks strange" bit -- of course it looks strange. He writes "Croatia is first" and then goes and tells me that he barely has time for EN. It doesn't take any time to register. You know that. --VKokielov 00:16, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
You deliberately misrepresent what I say. I don't know what to do. First of all, no Croat voted for you. Second of all, the Serbs who are most prominent on Sr::Wiki voted against you. Now, as regards your complaints against me, I will repeat myself. It is striking that you are the ONLY ONE THAT notices. Is it, mayhap, because you are the only one I brush shoulders with? I'm not talking about my rightness or wrongness, now -- only about your reaction to it. --VKokielov 00:39, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
That's right. The others haven't the leisure I have in confronting you; they have a turf to defend. I don't.
Please don't switch between "ti" and "vi" capriciously, or do any of the other things you keep doing -- like using "thou" in ordinary English speech. It impresses no one, and if you think it does, then you've misread people terribly. --VKokielov 00:41, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Question2

I live in Saudi Arabia with my parents.--Petrovic-Njegos 05:45, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bulgaria

For your information, the "Macedonians" started to consider themselves as "Macedonians" after decades of serbian terror. This is all a serbian lie to tear off these lands from Bulgaria. If you admit that in the past this population used to be Bulgarian, in what reasons you claim that nowadays it all of a sudden became Macedonian??? Now the government in Skopie is trying to prove that Samuil, Gotse Deltchev, Nikola Vaptsarov and so on and so on are Macedonians, which is simply ABSURD. If there was a Macedonian ethnos i think it would have had heros, not invent them from our history.

It would be far better for the population of the Reopublic of Macedonia to finally join Bulgaria. From economic point of view, it is better for you, not for us; from politikal point of view, the percentage of the Albanians which now constitutes about 40% of the population there will greatly decrease and you will not have problems with them.

I heard for the stupid and insulting campaign of a Dutch deputy for recognition of Macedonian minority here, perhaps your statement has something to do with it... --Gligan 07:35, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm. There were Slavs all over the Balkan Peninsular before the arrival of the Bulgars. The founder of Old Great Bulgaria, khan Kubrat had five sons, who after his death moved in different directions. One part of the Bulgars lead by Asparukh settled down in what is now northern Bulgaria and southern Romania; one part of them under Kuber settled in what is now Macedonia, but they were not so strong, and bacame vasslas of the Byzantines, but when khan Krum captured Sofia and the lands between the two states they naturally united.
Our nation was established as a union between Bulgars and Slavs, so it is natural that we wanted to liberate all the Slavs from the Byzantines; and the Slavs themselves wanted to join Bulgaria which was in their eyes the mother country. Some of the Slavs (the serbs) refused to do so (I guess they were bribed by the Byzantines, but no one can be sure about these reasons), while the Slavs to the east of Belgrade (including the lands of modern Macedonia) accepted Bulgaria as a state of their own; their never tried to establish states of their own because they were integral part of our society. Even under the Turkisk rule, when there was not a strong centre or an Emperor in Preslav or Tarnovo, when there were almost no Bulgarian institutions those population remained Bulgarian, they never stated themselves as Macedonians until the serbs started interfering from the 19th century onwards.
I hope you are wise enough to think neutrally and logically on what I wrote above and you will reach the same conclusions. --Gligan 09:52, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, in the late Middle Ages, the serbs did not claim that these lands (Macedonia) are theirs, they did not claim that the population there was Serb or Macedonian; this began from the 19th century. Macedonia was the heart of thier realm, because there were not so big and developped cities in Rashka or Duklja such as the newly conquerred Skopie (their new capital), Ohrid or Nis. My nationalism (as well as nationalism as a whole) is perhaps backward nowadays because it leads to conflicts. I understand this very well. We cannot take back Macedonia by force, but this does not mean that there is no chance. The local population should be persuaded, it should be allowed to read books about their history without censureship by their government. A society cannot live in a great lie forever. You agree that for instance Samuil was Bulgarian Emperor, but why then the government in Skopie persistently insists on its theory??? Because they are seeking ways to support these lies, otherwise the Macedonians themselves would like to join Bulgaria. This is why I am writting some nationalistic statement, I simply want the people to think on this and discover the truth (if they want to).

If the Macedonian population was ready to really have its own seperate country, they should say something like this: Samuil (or whoever Bulgarian heroe they consider Macedonian) was a Bulgarian, yes our lands were once Bulgarian but we now feel that it would be better to be independent. But instead what do they say??? Our Macedonian state was liberated from Bulgarian yoke under our great Emperor Samuil, Gotse Deltsev and Yane Sandanski fought for the liberation of Macedonia; so this shows that they are trying to prove something which is wrong, and this thing is that they are not Macedonians, they remain Bulgarians genetically and they do not want to admit it. --Gligan 15:24, 18 November 2006 (UTC)


The Macedonian lands joined Bulgaria in the middle of the 9th century, never heard of Serbs there before that time. It is true that the Macedonian government admits Samuil proclaimed himself as Czar of the Bulgarians; but it claims that this step was only to gain international recognition and he remains Macedonian ruler nonetheless, which is of course nonesense. He was not proclaimed emperor until the death of the last Czar of the former dinasty Roman in 997.
I am glad to talk with so smart person.:):):) --Gligan 19:02, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

It was interesting for me to learn this. But the Serbs left these lands and they were settled by Bulgarian Slavs and the following situation occurs: the same as in the Crusade Campaigns, they were trying to reconquer (in the 14th century) lands which no longer belonged to the serbs for five centuries, which were already Bulgarian. The Serbs held these lands for less the 30 years until thier empire desintegrated and did not have time to repopulate them with Serbs; so under the Ottoman rule the population there remained mostly Bulgarian, as it is now ;)

I hope that I will not insult you with this question; but why do you think it would be better for Macedonia not to join Bulgaria? :):);) --Gligan 16:02, 19 November 2006 (UTC)


Well, under joining I mean incorporation of Macedonia into Bulgaria (forming one state called Bulgaria with three historical regions Moesia, Thrace and Macedonia) , and under "better" I mean for the population of Macedonia.
The Macedonian lands remained in a state called Serbia for 30 years; they were conquered by the Turks much later, but then they consisted of numerous independent feudal states of Valkashin, Uglesha or Simeon, while the territories of the Serbian Kingdom remained to the northwest : ) --Gligan 18:40, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm. By Constitution Bulgaria is not exactly the state of the Bulgarians but the state of all its citizens no matter of their origin, religion or believes. We even do not have an official religion, we are traditionally Orthodox Christians but nowhere in the Constitution is written that it is the official religion of the country (which I personaly don't like). As far as the national recognition is concerned, I can only guess, because after all I am only 19 and still do not understand the whole politics of our government. But in my opinion the vast majority of the current Macedonian population will be officially recognised as Bulgarian. The problem would be that some people would not wish to call themselves Bulgarians and will think us for occupators, but these I think would be minority and with the time they will understand that there are no Macedonians (at least their children). I fear this will be a difficult process, as it was when Macedonia was conquered by the serbs in 1913. I doubt that it would be an official recognition of the Macedionian ethnics, but people can still consider themselves as Macedonians if they want to because in our country is allowed to consider youself as a Marsian if you wish; but with the time this number will steadily decrease as they read books or watch films on the theme and they will regain their Bulgarian indentity. After all, it is an honour to be Bulgarian ; ) The Albanians and the other peoples of Macedonia will remain, of course, Albanians, Roma or Turks; but there will not be a recognised national minority because both the Albanians and the Turks will constitite less than 10% of the population of the enlarged state.

It would be better for the peoples of the both countries to stand together because it would be easier to withstand the national interests, which I think are one and the same for Bulgaria and Macedonia. An important point is that it would not be necessary for Macedonia go through the long and very difficult way to the European Union.

No, the serbs will not like this at all :):):) --Gligan 19:49, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps you are right, this is why the unification should not took place suddenly but only on condition that the Macedonian population realise what the situation is (I mean when they finally they find their Bulgarian indentity). This might happen in 20, 50, 100 years or not at all. When we discuss this matter with friends, they often say that time will come when the Albanians will become majority in Macedonia and then the Macedonians themselves will want to join us. They also say that we shall gradually show them through the media who they are. One of them even told me that the most popular tv program in Macedonia is the Bulgarian Planeta TV (which I doubt). --Gligan 20:57, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] nationalities

Don't say foolish things. I don't know the difference between Croats and Serbs. I know only where you cast your lots, and how your own side reacts to you. You can't help it. I still don't know why. Even in what you just wrote -- "I am Serbia and you're Croatia". --VKokielov 00:44, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Pardon -- "I'm the Serb and you're Croatia". Wonderful slip-in. congratulations. --VKokielov 00:46, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
Oh -- I see how ir goes. You're poor Dubrovnik or Vukovar, and I'm mean old Yugoslavia.
I'm tired of this crap. From now on, when you address me, do it in English -- and do it like a human being. I'll address you only in English also. If you can comply with that simple precept, we'll get along just fine. --VKokielov 00:49, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] all right

So I've been accused of being strange myself. Not once. Sometimes because I'm a foreigner.

I know what you mean to do. I understand you. I even believe you're honest about it. But you're going about it the wrong way. Please take it firsthand. I was raised to laughter, and not once. I was raised to laughter -- and I should have been. There are certain norms of behavior with which human beings must comply. These norms aren't absolute, and they vary from place to place, but the thing to remember whenever you break them is that the human being on the other end of the line (or internet connection, perhaps) may read something very different from what you wrote. --VKokielov 00:52, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I believe you and I can find a common language. Let's promise each other, instead of addressing each other in English, that we will not talk about these Balkan topics. If you have something against what I wrote, ask someone to talk to me -- I'll do the same with you. God knows neither of us are short friends here, and we have a few in common. Deal? --VKokielov 00:54, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Oprosti to o sizofreniji. Meni je hrvatski sasvim u redu -- nije tu stvar u hrvatskom. Stvar je u tome sto si vise puta presao s jednog nacina obracanja na drugi, pa to me zbunilo, kao sto su neke druge stvari koje si radio -- kao naprimjer to besprekidno bacanje teksta koje si izvodio (mada naravno na samom pocetku). Dopustimo da smo mi iz istoka burni ljudi i da ne znamo, kad dodemo na Internet, kako se treba ponasati. Ako ti i ja mozemo utemeljiti primirje medu nama, bit ce obojici dobro, jer ja kao stranac stvarno nemam pojma. (Kao sto sam rekao -- zato drzim se daleko i nikad ne vodim napad) --VKokielov 01:00, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Nemam drugih rjesenja. I nemoj da se stavljas na zrtvu -- to je ono najgore u tebi sto svi mi tko ne slazemo se s tobom volimo najmanje. Ti nisi zrtva, nego vrlo dobro obavjesten sidjeljak -- opet kazem, to izlazi iz komentarija na tvom RfAu, od administratora na wiki:sr, wiki:hr, i wiki:bs. --VKokielov 01:09, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Trebam to kvalificirati. Mi smo svi tko ucestvujemo u ovim svadama, svi smo sidjeljaci -- ali bogme ne znam zasto ti pretendiras na neutralnost kada neutralnosti tu nema. Razlika medu tobom i Dujom ili Joyem jeste -- ili barem bila je do ovog proljeca -- da su oni dosta daleki od tih samih svada. Ali ipak, oni ne stavljaju "sh" predlozke na stranu i ne brane ono sto ne mogu dokazati. Dijxtra, koji stavlja taj "sh", izgleda da vjeruje u to -- dobro njemu. Ja se s tim ne slazem. Ne treba zivjeti u proslosti. Ali ni Dijxtra se ne pravi na jednog neutralnog i nevinog. --VKokielov 01:14, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

User talk:PaxEquilibrium/VKokielov babble

Dobro -- kad ne razumijes, ne vazi. Inace nikad necemo doci do primirja. Sto je na kraju krajeva nas cilj, zar ne? Ako, naravno, neces da me zgazis? :D --VKokielov 01:37, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Nemoj da moju ljubav prema Izraelu nazivas nacionalizmom. Ja pod nacionalizmom razumijem fasizam. Ono sto ja ispitujem prema Izraelu, ili sto Hrvati ispitaju prema Hrvatskoj -- to nije fasizam; to je ljubav naroda koji te je odgojio i u kojem si odrastao, a koji te branio. --VKokielov 01:45, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] crnogorac?!

a ja mislio da si hrvatski srbin? --VKokielov 02:06, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Ma kakvi da je on Hrvatski Srbin. On je Hrvatski Crnogorac a živi u Beogradu. On je rođen u Karlovecu, ali je rasta u Crnu Goru. Njegovo majka je iz Cetinja. Malo dođe porijeklo Paštrovića i Grbalja. Crna Gora 02:22, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
Ovo postaje samo malo iritantnim. Necu vise diskutirati. Ako ne mozes uzet na lice i najmanji udarac, i to onaj za koji sam ja spreman uzeti odgovornost -- necu s tobom nista imati. Nisi ti s neba pao. --VKokielov 14:55, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Đe si brate sokole!

Zdravo Pax-e. Izvini što nijesam odavno napisao pismu tebi. E vala sam kazao VKokielov da više ne provocira Crnogorci na Vikipediju.

Kako ide s tvojim doprinosima. Viđio sam da sada imaš preko 9.000 doprinosi. Bravo!

E vala je žalostno što Milo nije više naš Premijer. E, dobro si reka što Milo više neće da bude Premijer Crne Gore.

Viđim da se još zbavljaš sa istorijom Hrvatske. Oću da budem ka ti, dobar istoričar na Vikipediju.

Prijatno Pax-e i nemoj da nikad prestaneš s tvojem dobro radnje na Vikipediju.

PS, Što je Boris Malagurski blokiran od oba Engleski i Srpski Vikipedije. I možeš li da mi malo pomogneš sa Crnogorskom Vikipedijom (ja sam napravio testna vikipedija prije mjesec dana) Crna Gora 02:19, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A bit of help please

Can you please help me with dealing with the User:GiorgioOrsini, the one you pointed it out to me on my talk page? He keeps vandalising(simply removes content from) List of Croatians and I don't know what to do, who to contact, etc. Thanks in advance. --Factanista 21:55, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Ragusan???

I have replied to your message on my Talk page. --Slowking Man 10:18, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] ?

ne razumijem kako covjek koji je prezivio rat moze razgovarati kao sto ti. Nadam se da ovo poredenje te nece opet uvrijediti, ali ti govoris kao Dalai Lama u okolnostima koje ga najvise mrze i ne zele.

Ako si bio u SFRJ, onda si citao Anne Frank's diary. Razdijelenje toga s ovim je moderna greska -- kao i greska jeste mislenje da, ako bi se dvojica strana obmjenile, da ne bi nam Jevrejima ili vam Krscanima pod arapskom hegemonijom bilo osam sto put gore nego sto je njima pod nama. --VKokielov 16:04, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Stavit cu za tebe objasnenje moga oca, koje je on meni uvijek stavljao na sto, da bih ga razumio: "nije moguce drzati se od strane u ratu. Moras izabrati stranu. I pazi, ako izaberes pogresnu stranu, tebe nitko nece postovati, jer niko ne voli izdajnika." --VKokielov 16:07, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
Ne znam. Mozda si u pravu. Ali, kao sto je u slucaju i s Jevrejima -- ovo nije prvi rat. I nece biti posljednji, ukoliko se sve ne preobrati o ne postave s glave na nogu. Tesko je tu pricati o osjecajima uopce, a kad pricas o miru (kao sto sam ja neko vrijeme), pocinju na te ispod obrva gledati. --VKokielov 21:49, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
A sto je treba mrzit? Zasto nije moguce samo zanemariti? Ostaviti na stranu? Zasto ne pustiti svakoga da ide svojim putem? Negodovanje i mrznja su razliciti pojmovi. --VKokielov 23:11, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
"Ne. Koju god naciju odaberem, neko - gdje god bio, ali uvijek neko - ce me mrziti zbog toga sto odabrah; tako da je poprilicno svejedno. I opet, kako mogu da se solidarisem s onim protivu cega nastupam istovremeno (mislim na politicke odredbe). Pa hajde, ici cu tvojim rjecima :) - ti si Jevrejin, i Jevreji gdje god da su u svijetu (pa cak - ne, pogotovo sada kada imaju svoju drzavu) ce uvijek osjecati vrlo jaku pripadnost jednih drugima, i tako mislim da ti jednostavno to ne mozes razumijeti. Kod mene ("nas"), to je zaista neprimenjivo." Pogodio si u tacku. To ti je istina. Istina, i velika zalost. --VKokielov 23:13, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please!

Be advised not to leave offensive and meaningless messages on my talk pages!

List of Croatians

Please see Wikipedia:Vandalism. Your edits of plain removal are classified as vandalism according to Wikipedia's policy and are not allowed. Please refer to defining your edits, as you may be blocked for further activities in the likehood of your latest contributions. --PaxEquilibrium 23:37, 18 November 2006 --GiorgioOrsini 16:07, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

List of Croatians & Vandalism

These are not offensive messages, but a re excerpts taken from the Wikipedia:Vandalism policy page, which deals with these things. Also, the removal of warnings is a no-no, especially when they're justified, like in this case. You may get an extended block, as it seems as if you're hiding that which you're doing. --PaxEquilibrium 17:37, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

My further advice to you - please stay away from my talk page and do not tutor me or threaten me with blocks!--GiorgioOrsini 01:57, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] stvoreni da mrzimo

Ovdje prestupas granicu koju ne smijes prestupiti. Prije nego se upustis u tu diskusiju, moras prvo opredjeliti sto mislis pod onome sto si rekao. Da li to znaci da nema nista u zivotu osim ove emocije? To je potpuna neistina. Ja volim svoje roditelje i umro bih za njih -- kako bi oni umrjeli i za mene. Jesam li spreman umrjeti za Arapa? Kad tone u vodi, valjda, jesam -- jer on u taj trenutak vise nije Arap, nego covjek kao sto sam ja. Ali onda moram da se pitam: tone li on u vodi, ili pak samo se cini na to? Sto se mene tice, ja bih volio da kazem: ja cu ga spasiti prvo, a pitati potom. To bismo svi voljeli da kazemo. Ali nemam sumnje da bih ga ostavio da tone ako bi to znacilo da cu spasti svoje roditelje - s kojom god zaloscu on tonuo.

Ovo je u nama ljudima od trenutka kada smo rodeni. Mudrost je u tome da razumijes to, i primis stanje stvari onakvo kakvo jeste. Ja smatram da treba da ljudi razumiju: mrznja medu plemenima ne postoji. To je jos jedna gromka izmislica -- jos jedan primjerak praha u oci. Ono sto je natjeralo te vojnike da ubijaju, da tjeraju, da siluju, to nije mrznja, nego oholost -- prljava oholost s dodatkom odsustva savjesti. Danasnji ljudi, svojom vecinom, nemaju savjesti; savjest nije upucena njima. Pa i oduvijek tako bilo -- i u Njemackoj 1940h, i u Angliji 1900h kada su djecu bestidno ganjali po fabricima da rade dane od dvadeset i cetiri sata bez prekida. Razlika medu tim vremenom i nasim jeste, da je taj skup ljudi koji je to poricao i koji je u tome vidio svu gadnost koja je zracila odande, taj skup je u to vrijeme imao dobro osjecanje za ono sto se jos tada moglo zvati "covjeske vrline." Sada te vrline se priblizavaju sve vise do nestanka, a svjest o njima je vecim dijelom vece izgubljena. Mislim, naravno, na spremnost zrtvovati za one koji su ti bliski -- a jedna od stvari koje ces morati zrtvovati -- nema sumnja o tome -- jeste komfortan zivot, bez neprijatelja i zlozelatelja. --VKokielov 23:27, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

etnicko pripadanje nema nimalo veze s time. Sam si rekao za to. Znaci treba odgovor traziti drugdje -- jere ocigledno je u pitanju nesto sto je povezano s etniconscu, ali ne identicno njoj. --VKokielov 01:08, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
da ga poznajem? naravno bih ga prvog spasio. Da ne poznajem obojicu, ne mogu obecati nista. -VKokielov 21:57, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
Nisam uvjeren da ona druga vrsta postoji. da, naravno, pod tom zastavom svasta se radi, ali se nikad ne zna sto je stampano pod odjelom, ako me razumijes. --VKokielov 00:36, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Eastern Slavonija, Western Srijem, Baranja

When was this region, de jure part of a Serbian state? iruka 00:12, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

In response:
  • the Serbian Kingdom (Syrmian) for which you must be referring to the Lower Srijem (below Danube) as the Upper Srijem was ruled by a Hungarian Ugrin Csák;
  • the Serbian Empire - I'm assuming you are referring to that of emperor Dusan - the boundary of which was at the Drava and Danube rivers & as such did not include Baranya, Srijem or Slavonija;
  • the Duchy of Syrmium; the Serbian Dukedom; the Dukedom of Serbia and Tamis Banate; - most of these entities were merely adminstrative provinces of the Hungarian kingdom which at times involved some measure of autonomy to reflect the high migration of Serbs to the region. However, in most cases, they did not include Western Srijem, and Eastern Slavonia, nor Eastern Srijem since the treaty of Karlowitz as these areas were part of the crown land of Croatia and the triume Kingdom of Croatia - however the Serbian Voivodship did include Baranya;
  • the Kingdom of Serbia - In wikipedia it mentions that Srijem joined the kingdom of Serbia on Nov 24 1918, but the map only shows eastern Srijem. There is a problem with this b/c at the same time, the territories were part of the State of the Croats, Serbs & Slovenes that declared independence from Austria-Hungary?;
  • the Serb-Hungarian Baranya-Baja Republic - a disputed territory between Hungary & Kingdom of Serbs Croat and Slovenes that did not include Srijem or Slavonia;
  • the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes - drawing a long bow here aren't we? By that rational, all of Vojvodina, Sandzak etc was de jure part of Croatia;
  • Kingdom of Yugoslavia - same point as for the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes;
  • Autonomous Province of Vojvodina (in the Republic of Serbia)- Srijem, Baranya or Eastern Slavonia not part of this entity;
  • the Serbian Autonomous Region of eastern Slavonia, croatian Baranya and western Syrmium and the Republic of Serbian Frontier - they are not dejure recognised entities and existed as self-proclaimed republics and as a result of a military campaign. These regions were reintegrated into Croatia by the UN as part of the Dayton accords and were explicitly recognised as an integral part of the republic of Croatia.
So in conclusion, there was never a de-jure internationally recognised Serb state that was composed of Eastern Slavonia and Baranja and Srijem. Serbian Autonomous Region of eastern Slavonia, croatian Baranya and western Syrmium was merely a vehicle for Milosevic's regime's attempt at a land grab for the oil fields in Eastern Slavonia. As Milovan Djilas stated in an interview I saw in the early 1990's, the AVNOJ boundaries between SR Serbia and SR Croatia were drawn on the basis of ethnic delineation. Thus SR Serbia got Eastern Srijem, whilst Croatia was compensated with Istria. iruka 03:05, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
You are trolling? no? ;) Apart from the fact that Croatia-Slavonia was one crownland (of which Syrmia was a part off), and that prior to being reunited, it had previously existed as one entity as the kingdom of Croatia within Hungary and before this as part the Kingdom of Croatia under various stages of the Trpirmir dynasty. This continuity in terms of integralness to the various Croat states over the ages and Croat demographic was why Western Srijem remained part of SR Croatia, and Eastern Srijem was given to the SR Serbia by virtue of the Serbian demographic there, as alluded to by Milovan Djilas's comments. iruka 14:22, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
Upper Srijem was ruled by a Hungarian Ugrin Csák and the lands were reincorporated into the Kingdom of Hungary and subsequently the Slavonia crownland that often changed hands between Hungary and Croatia. Speculation over his effective control is neither here nor there. iruka 14:22, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

...it was a part of the Serbian state, but was never a de-jure internationally recognised Croat state that was composed of Eastern Slavonia and Baranja and Srijem. :)))

Touche! :) But you miss the obvious Republic of Croatia recognised in 1992 that comprised the territory of Eastern Slavonia and Baranja and Srijem. ; )
Putting aside Baranja; Eastern Slavonia & Western Srijem was internationally recognised as part of King Tomislav's & Kresimir IV's Croatia. It was part of a crownland (initially Croatia then as Croatia-Slavonia) recognised as a title by the nobility of Europe. It was also part of the autonomous Banovina Croatia within the first Yugoslavia; NDH; and the Peoples Republic of Croatia and Socialist Republic of Croatia in the Second Yugoslavia. Thus you have a relationship between Eastern Slavonia/Western Srijem & Croat state, with interruptions, spanning over a thousand years. iruka 15:07, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Like I said, the original reason was to storm Croatia through those territories, but in the end it ended to historical territorial aspirations. Ethnic definition? The Yugoslav republics were formed by neither historical nor ethnic definitions, or a combination of the two. I hope you're not referring to the Ustasha Axis Independent State of Croatia that contained eastern Syrmium.

The modern boundaries of Croatia and BiH was largely formed by the treaty of Karlowitz which roled back the Ottoman Turks gains in Europe. The triune kingdom of Croatia included Eastern Srijem - I believe this was the basis for it's inclusion in the NDH? Ethnically, as stated earlier, and per Milovan Djilas's revelations, the AVNOJ boundary between SR Croatia & SR Serbia was drawn in 1945 on ethnic lines. Even 50 years later, Croats still held a relative majority in the area that constituted the self declared Serb autonomous region of Eastern Slavonia and Baranja and Srijem. Any historical claim was overshadowed by the demographic reality and the stronger historical connection with various iterations of Croat statehood. As for places around Knin (Kraljevski Nin) and Petrova Gora (King Petar Svacic) - the historical Croatian connection is obvious. To claim the AVNOJ boundaries do not resonate historical and ethnic realities would involve an oversight of these strong facts to the contrary. iruka 15:07, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
There are no speculations. In the time Hungary ruled Slavonia directly from 1225 to 1467, this one time it was in Serbian hands. --PaxEquilibrium 14:53, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
I believe such a notion is erroneous - "...Hungarian influence was stronger in the north of Croatia (Slavonia)..." in terms of granting land, only the king could do that - but he was king of Croatia 'and' Hungary. "...In 1222, the powerful Croatian nobility forced King Andrew II to issue the Golden Bull, a charter limiting royal authority. Every year he had to convene an assemly (sabor)of the armed nobility and hear complaints and requests, and the nobility had the right to resist if he did not respect their privelages." (Ivo Goldstein, history of Croatia, p22). Hardly what you call direct rule - sourced from a historian of Jewish extraction - hardly a nationalist. Furthermore, from the same source, "...in 1273 in Zagreb, the first sabor of 'All Slavonia' (today this region is Croatia north of the mountain of Gvozd (also known as Petrova Gora) and the Sava river). The nobility voted for various legal regulations and were clearly ambitious to rule alongside the king in accordance with the 1222 charter. The ban approved the assembly's conclusions." iruka 10:06, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
It should also be noted that having a separate ban in Slavonia was a sign of continuity of the Kingdom of Croatia because a Slavonian ban existed in the Croatian kingdom which had bans in a few different areas. Indeed, Petar Kresimir IV organised the Pannoanian Croats (in modern day Slavonia and northern Bosnia) into his kingdom peacefully by taking on the ban of Slavonia and future king of Croatia Dmitar Zvonimir as his adviser. iruka 10:06, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
Also, the Arpad house died out in 1301 and it was the King of Naples from the French house of Anjou that acquired the Hungary-Croatia throne. After Louis's death, there was anarchy & civil war in Croatia over accession, with some nobles ruling in their own right and others gathering around Tvrtko of Bosnia. iruka 10:06, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
''That's what I've been trying to tell you - western Syrmia (most eastern Slavonia) weren't a part of the Croat medieval state.
Eastern Slavonia and Western Srijem at different times were part of the medieval dukedom of the Pannonian Croats, whose control was only interrupted for brief periods by the Byzantium or Bulgar empires. This region later become the Slavonia ban's part of the Kingdom of Croatia, and was part of the rule of King Tomislav, Kresimir IV and Dmitar Zvonimir (himself ban of Slavonia prior to accession to the throne). iruka 10:06, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
That's just like the Greater Serbian demands for Krajina (although Greater Croat demands in this case, won).
Greater Croatia? Such a notion ignores the fact that the region collectively was closely associated to Croatia historically (through the Socialist Republic Croatia, People's Republic of Croatia, Banovina of Croatia (exclusive of Baranja), Independent State of Croatia, Triune Kingdom of Dalmatia, Croatia and Slavonia (1867 - 1918) (exclusive of Baranja), Kingdom of Slavonia (exclusive of Baranja) & Kingdom of Croatia (exclusive of Baranja). Furthermore there was a strong ethnical link with the ethnic makeup just before the 1990's war containing a relative majority of Croats; it was composed of 90,454 (47%) Croats, 61,492 (32%) Serbs, and 40,217 (21%) others. iruka 10:06, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
Why mention 1992? I already mentioned 1939 being the first time, so there's no need to mention all the latter you mentioned. Over a thousand years? I think you're slightly overestimating. Then again, with interruptions, there are also centuries-old relationships with the Serb state. :)
The 1939 Banovina Hrvatska did not contain Baranja, but incorporated much of Srijem.
With the exception of Baranja (most closely associated with Magyar history and ethnicity), any tenuous association with adjoining Serb populated areas within the Hungarian kingdom under the guise of municipa autonomy is overshadowed by it's legal, historical connection with the Croatian crown via such agreements as Pacta Conventa, the various Golden Bull, and the two variations of the Nagodba agreements, which governed it large Croat population as well as significant numbers of Serbs, Germans and Magyars. iruka 10:06, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
Of course they weren't. For differents part of the country different years were used (1878, 1910, 1918, 1939, 1941) and they were semi-ethnical - for example, trying to grasp one nation, but totally leaving large chunks of the other nation in that "nation-state" of that state (supporting a single ethnic group - such was evident in the Croatian case; or Slovene). --PaxEquilibrium 16:52, 22 November 2006 (UTC)Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Marinko"
By your rationale, ethnic borders could never be achieved because any border proposal would disadvantage some group. I think the Partisans achieved a fair balance. The 1945 AVNOJ border between Eastern part of the SR Croatia and Vojvodina of SR Serbia, was actually drawn on an ethnic basis that largely coincided with historical ones. With regard the large Serb populations in Lika, Kordun and Banija, they largely remained in Croatia because it was historically, geographically and economically an integral part of Croatia, contained a large number of Croats, and was not readily linked to Serbia because of the decision to restore the territory entity of Bosnia & Herzegovina in it's Ottoman/Austria-Hungary borders and served as a tampon zone b/c of the role BiH played in nationalist Croat/Serb visions. Serbia got to keep Eastern Srijem, Banat and Backa, Sandzak and Kosovo. Montenegro got the coastline from Boka Kotor to Budva. Croatia got Istra and Baranja. So every group had some gain and something to complain about.
At the risk of contradicting the fact of my response on the subject, it's a shame the subject of borders dominates the region. Had SR Serbia focused on democratic and economic reforms rather than the military acquisition of the SR Croatia's oil fields (Slavonia) and tourist city of Dubrovnik , it would not find itself in the position it finds itself today - minus Montengrans and Kosovars as partners; and among the bottom of Europes economic ladder; and the subject of political parody over the mention in it's new constitution the site of a medieval battlefield. iruka 10:06, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Factanista

Factanista ima potpuno pravo sto govori. Nije bas sve 50/50 na Wiki. Neki imaju vise prava i i to stalno minjaju Wiki kako ono hoce.

Jedno Pitanje..kako je on moga izbrisat sve sto je pisalo na njegov discussion page? Ja sam to isto mislio jednom radit ali ti se reko da nemogu to ja brisat ako neman tvoj ok.. cak sve je copyright pod Wiki i nista se nebrise...ali on je sve izbrisao.

Ja ga ne tuzim ..samo pitan jeli moguce ..jer i ja bi tako sve izbrisao pa se vise ne vratio.

Dosta je i meni bilo od nekih poput Giovanni itd... Jagoda 1 02:32, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Checkuser confusion

In regards to Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Ragusan, I hope I cleared up some confusion on your part by adding that explanation from UninvitedCompany (talk • contribs), a checkuser. Cheers, Daniel.Bryant [ T · C ] 03:52, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re:

здраво! Извини за овако спор одговор на твоју поруку. Пишем на српском јер видим да ти је сх матерњи језик. Што се тиче национализма и википедије и мог одласка и доласка......... Не знам шта да ти кажем, јер било каква тема у том правцу захтева дуго разлагање, а ово није место за то. У једној реченици, не могу да смислим било какав облик национализма, а нажалост тога има свуда, било да је српска, хрватска, словеначка или босанска википедија. Неки људи из дотичних држава као да нису сити ратовања па би хтели још и још увек млате неку већ испрану националну реторику. То је био једини разлок мог привременог одласка са српске Википедије. На њу сам се вратила, али избегавам чланке које су на онај или овај начин везане за ратове, политику, религију и такозвани патриотизам на тлу бивше СФРЈ. Бљак... ;)

Хвала за звездицу!!! :) Поздрављам те!

п.с. Одакле си?


Svetlana Miljkovic 07:46, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Smoking

A prije li si opazio... :))) Hvala. Jakiša Tomić 08:47, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Petition

I open a petition here. --PaxEquilibrium 19:03, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I Dunno

I sed i think so, but im not sure. Uno, dont quote me on that.

THE MILJAKINATOR 05:36, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hey!

Pa ti si HolyRomanEmperor! :)tj. bivshi HRE. Sad znam ko si ti :) Otkud PaksEkvilibrijum?

Nije samo bio u pitanju BMalagurski ili kako mu je vec bilo prezime.. Vec chinjenica da su chlanci koje je ON pisao ostali (i dan danas). Ima jedan chlanak koji je on napisao, i koji josh eto stoji tako na srpskoj vikipediji, a kao da ga je Mitevic pisao u ondashnje ratno hushkachko vreme.. Stoga, nije on kriv shto je tako lud, vec shto ga je celokupna zajednica, tj. wiki community, podrzhala u toj ludosti..

Shta ima po Beogradu? :)

Svetlana Miljkovic 10:23, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mapa Vojvodine

Naprotiv, mapa Militargrenze je netačna. To sam već davno proverio. Granica Vojvodstva Srbije i Kraljevine Slavonije je bila kod Iloka. PANONIAN (talk) 17:58, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hey!

You've heard Albanians complaining that they don't have rights? Or you've heard Macedonians complaining about the rights of Albanians in Macedonia?

If the first, I can tell you one thing (let me put it in Serbocroatian): Даш му прст, а он хоће читаву руку. That is the simpliest way of explaining that situation.

If the second, it is a result of the first (the quote in Serbocroatian). Regards, Bomac 18:31, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

I've never heard about the "Yugoslav Serbo-Macedonian Alliance...". Also, there weren't any such attempts of "removing" Albanians through the Constitution.
You made me curious about this. Do you have any links? Thanks in advance, Bomac 19:19, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AVNOJ Borders of the SFRJ Republics

The visual effect of the examples you have provided would change if you included Vojvodina & Kosovo which whilst enjoying autonomy were still part of SR Serbia. It would also change if you used the Triune Kingdom or the NDH instead of the Banovina.

Regarding BiH, the decision made to not include parts of BiH in either Serbia, whose claim was compromised by the Chetnik activities against Bosnjiaks (Muslims), a key interest group for Tito and the fact that most Serbs resided in Western Bosnia, difficult to link to SR Serbia; or Croatia who had a strong claim becuase of practical application (Herzegovina adjoins Dalmatia) and history but compromised by the NDH's activities, and the Muslims notion that Bosnia is indivisible. There was also the fact that many territories in Bosnia were heavily mixed and would require a population swap - an untenable position. The potential exception would have been Herzegovina where the populations were less mixed.

Note that what I wanted to show by my example was that it was not only Serbs who had people outside it's respective 'motherland' albeit in the Serbs case it was more pronounced - many Bosnjiaks resided in Serbia and Montengro, many Croats in BiH & Vojvodina, many Albanians in Serbia and Macedonia, many Hungarians in Serbia.

With regard to Slavonia, the association with the Croatian (read here Trpirmir, Arpad, Anjou, Hasburg dynasties) kings and the triune kingdom, Banovina, NDH and Socialist Croat federal republics merely reinforce the historical link and correspond to the ethnic reality of the region. Hence to conclude that Eastern Slavonia and Western Srijem, indeed the whole of Slavonia as a part of Republic of Croatia resulting from that continuity, as strange and detrimental to Serbia, is itself strange and does not factor in the continuity mentioned above.

I also think it is important to remember that the so-called gains and losses by the Republics often reflected either ethnic reality, historical links or both (albeit with a heavy bias towards more modern history); and these two criteria often reflected economic and geographical viability of the republics. Thus Bosnia was too mixed to split. Regarding the Lika, Kordun & Banija Serbs, to remove that area from Croatia would not only cut the historical continuity the area had within various iterations of the Croatian state, but undermine the geographical continuity and economic viability of both entities, as was demonstrated in the case of the short lived SAO Krajina.

Regarding the loss of Montenegro, it depends on how you view it - one could view it as loss of a Serbian land, or the reinstatement of Montenegran independence taken away from them in the early 1900's.

Out of curiosity, how would you have redrawn the AVNOJ boundaries? What would have been the criteria? iruka 07:02, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

  • Wasn't alot of the Kosovo tension over a referendum promised circa 1945 then reneged by Tito over whether it would be included in Yugoslavia or Albania?
  • Re Kosovo autonomy, I can understand how in most respects except for monetary, foreign and military functions, the region was self-governing; but Vojvodina had a majority of Serbs - if it was the case that Vojvodina was assuming a status of almost a republic, then it would have had to be supported by Serbs?
  • The notion that Serbs were without an effective motherland is a claytons one. The goal of a unitary state resembled a Greater Serbia in effect under the hegemonic influence of the largest ethnic group, the Serbs. The goal of preserving and codifying federalism resembled quasi-independence for the Croats and Slovenes. Hence the idea of cultural autonomy model you suggested would not work given the end games in mind. The European experience has shown that the best model for preserving national is achieved through a nation state that accomodates minority rights, and wider issues within regional frameworks such as the EU and UN (despite their flaws).
  • I disagree with your notion that Croatia could only function once the Serbs left - I believed that Croatia could have functioned with their Serbian population, had the Serbs not allowed themselves to be manipulated by Serbia - a folly they have dearly paid for. Serbs functioned well within the structures of the Kingdom of Croatia the Triune Kingdom of Dalmatia, Croatia & Slavonia, holding the position of vice-ban. They operated well within the Banovina and the Croatian Republics in the Second Yugoslavia. The reason for this is because they were more closely linked with their Croatian kin because of shared historical experiences such as the reformation, revolutions etc, exposure to same institutions and eduction, integrated economic systems (the whole of Lika, Kordun, Banija, Northern Dalmatia and Zagreb are one economic entity). This commonality was stronger for most of the time, than some epheral national consciousness with Serbs everywhere. But unfortunately, scaremongering, rural backwardness and political opportunism won out in the end. Despite this, Croatia still functions with a sizable Serb minority today. iruka 16:13, 24 November 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Little question

Do you know why Estavist and PANONIAN both claim to be leaving Wikipedia... on the same day?? It seems like the number of us former-YU editors is dwindling. All of a sudden, I may be second-closest to being admin someday :P. (Heaven help us if that actually happened...)

Also, sorry about the King Petar Krešimir article. Unfortunately, I don't have access to many printed sources as I live in Canada. Trekking over to the Croatian library in my area for Wikipedia's sake would quickly result in me failing school, which is why I don't contribute very in-depth info. Regards. --Thewanderer 22:43, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bosniakophobia should be given a chance

Some Serbs that Bosniakophobia is not an English word? Well, Serbophobia is also NOT an English word. It's not located in English dictionary. In the beginning, Serbophobia returned only 2 matches at Google. When Serbs introduced this word to Wikipedia, thanks to thousands of scrapper pages, Google now returns close to 3,000 matches (all copies of Wikipedia content). Serbophobia was also nominated for deletion etc, but nobody deleted it. Bosniakophobia should also NOT be deleted. Bosniak 07:16, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Bosniak, one illegitimate article doesn't warrant another. I agree, the Serbophobia and Croatophobia are both dubious articles, just as is Bosniakophobia, Anti-Bosniak sentiment and other such made-up, politically motivated articles. Drop the whole nationalist blame-game and spend your time on something constructive instead!Regards Osli73 12:42, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kosovar (the User)

PaxEquilibrium, you wrote a message in my talk page. I wrote a short message back below your message. I also send you some greetings in the Talk:Kosovo page. Take care and I hope I am not taking too much of your time. Yours, Kosovar 19:01, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue IX - November 2006

The November 2006 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

This is an automated delivery by grafikbot 22:59, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Afrika paprika

Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I've blocked both IPs. You're welcome to file a request for checkuer if you'd like, otherwise, no further action is necessary. —Pilotguy (push to talk) 21:11, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I've removed your report from WP:PAIN - not because it wasn't personal attacks, but because someone got to the IP address and blocked it already :) Shell babelfish 16:57, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] You too?

Eh, you left too? I tried to leave, but I am too notorious wikiholic (as Duja said), and since I do not have job, the ways to spend my free time would be too limited without Wikipedia. :) I hope you will come back too. PANONIAN (talk) 02:41, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I don't wish talking to people with mental illusions

TThis includes you, a war criminal defending editor and denier of serb beast crimes.

I don't know wether user Duja has mobilized serb nationalist for this ridiculous vote, or if these supposedly non-serbian voters actually are serbs hiding behind wikipedia accounts. No matter what, you are all voting for the removal of a page listing devilish people - and in doing so you do not less than support them! Some call this page POV just because it lists? It's unbelievable - well it wasn't me or any other editor that killed the children or women which earned the criminals a place on the list of serb criminals. Becasue of your scandalous denial and the belief that commited war crimes should be hidden away and forgotten, your deeds will be answered with consequences. I'm sure these consequences allready are present in your lifes to an extent - how can anyone who votes for denial feel good inside their damaged souls? But like I said time will catch up with anyone who does so. Truth always prevails and those who work against it will regret it deeply with time. The moral equivalence that wikipedia's extremely amateuristic writers are trying to follow is horrible, being neutral does not apply when it comes to choosing between the evil and good side, anyone who thinks so automatically has chosen the evil side. Being equivalent in the Bosnian "war" (aggression!), is like being neutral and equivalent to the Holocaust of Jews. We are talking about peaceful human beings killed by humans possesed by evil forces - and you are neutral?, well keep on dreaming..neutral is the last thing you are. I and every peace loving man or women whish you no good, for people like you are the reason of war and misery, sorry but that is the truth - it's an evil path you have choosen for yourselves. My suggestion to you is to try to save yourselves before it is to late and you will regret all your bad acts. (This will probably be removed sooner than I wrote it, obviously another example of denial and injustice) Ancient Land of Bosoni

[edit] POV?

"This is an incomplete list of people, with Serb ethnicity, who have been accused of war crimes and attrocities commited during sgovernmental military campaigns, mainly carried out in Bosnia between 1992-1995, on civilian Bosniaks and warprisoners of both Croat and Bosniak ethnicity." No where does it say that every Serbian is a war criminal. It points out those who are currently hiding, being tried, or have been sentenced. How is it POV? Greetings, Vseferović 21:09, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

That statement was not there when this subject was introduced to me. I do not agree with that statement, however, now there is nothing wrong with the artilce. It is as neutral as it can be. Thanks, Vseferović 21:18, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Of course the other two articles will show up. However as far as I can see there are only a few Bosnian Muslim leaders indicted of those 2-3 were jailed, the rest let go. This is according to the articles List of ICTY Former Yugoslavia War criminals. (Bosniaks have done some attocities, but ona a much lower scale, look at the Serbian attack on Srebrenica for example) Thank you, Vseferović 21:26, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Response

I understand, however, I did not make the list. We may have to remove some people and add others if the article is kept. And yes, we have to define a war criminal. To answer your question, Draza Mihajlovic, in my opinion, is a war criminal considering that in every school in Yugoslavia students learned that he was a criminal. He was fascist and fascists are not welcomed in this world. If you would like you can play "Devil's advocate" and say “why the fascist ideology would be bad?” Well, today's society defines it is a bad ideology. (I thought you were for the SFRJ ideologies and nation) Thanks, Vseferović 22:53, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

He was a Cetnik leader, which automatically defines him as fascist. They were the ones who hand in hand fought with the Germans during the Second World War, meaning they agreed with the Nazi ideas. They carried out many missions for the Nazi's during WWII. He was tried by the OZNA and the SFRJ.
The English article has a lot of POV, but these to sentences provided some interesting detail overlooked by the English article:
  • Sa svojim trupama se na početku borio protiv Njemačkog okupatora, dok je kasnije četnički pokret počeo otvoreno surađivati sa okupatorom u borbi protiv jugoslovenskih partizana. Odsjek zaštite Naroda (OZNA), 12. marta 1946, uhapsio je Dražu Mihajlovića.
Thanks, Vseferović 01:11, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Protection

You're welcome. If you ever want your page unprotected, just let me know. User:Zoe|(talk) 03:24, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your recent edits

You made this edit on User:Factanista. Please review WP:SOCK and do not make further such edits. You need to file a checkuser request to confirm if the user is indeed a sockpuppet; otherwise such edits can be considered as disruption. Regards, — Nearly Headless Nick {L} 06:14, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Odgovor

I find it interesting that you changed your opinion considering that you seem to be one of the users for SFRJ. However, it seems that now you are defending Cetnik ideoloy. I do not understand your viewpoint. Nothing good can come out of the Cetniks and the Ustase unless one supports the nationalism in those countries. A true Yugoslavian actually detests the work of Draza Mihajlovic. I mean he was a Cetnik and worked against Yugo. That is enough for me, since no one unless they are Cetnik or Ustase, can they say that Yugo was a horrible country. It is actually positive that Tito removed their freedom. Thanks, Vseferović 22:18, 1 December 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Personal Information

For posting personally idenitifying information [42], I have indfefinitely blocked you from editing. An indefinite block need not mean you will not be unblocked. But There is no excuse for posting personally identifying information anywhere on Wikipedia, without that person's consent. Should I find this to be the case, I will remove your block and apologize.--MONGO 19:28, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I must say I have no idea what you're talking about. What personal information? When, why? What are you talking about? No apology needed - just let me see if you had any reason to ban me in the first place. ;) --PaxEquilibrium 20:53, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
One of the funniest things is that I do not know personal information of any User whatsoever. :) --PaxEquilibrium 20:58, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Searching around, it seems that I posted around personal information about a user called Pschemp. This is very, very weird to me - I've seen the talk page of him/her right several seconds ago for the first time in my life - and have never met him/her ever before. I really do not understand... --PaxEquilibrium 21:09, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Come on, own up, apoligize and say you'll never do it again (assuming you did not do it and unless this was a tactic to get a permablock so that you can retire :p).--Euthymios 21:11, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
Read below. :) --PaxEquilibrium 21:25, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
LOL, sorry about that. BTW if you haven't left WP then why don't you revert your userpage?--Euthymios 21:28, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

To make a long story short, there was odd sequence of events involving Wikipedia:Oversight which led to the block, which I have now removed. I apologize for the inconvenience. Best, Mackensen (talk) 21:13, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

I am blocked again. --PaxEquilibrium 11:12, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reply

Yes, it very much does appear that way. I hope you don't have to go through anymore of that! semper fi — Moe 21:45, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My guess as to what happened

At 12:54 (UTC) today, you made an edit to WP:ANI, which added to the bottom of the page a notice of Pschemp's alleged real name and contact details in a special box. Immediately under it, you added the following:

== Afrika paprika == [[Category:Suspected Wikipedia sockpuppets of Afrika paprika]]. All self-confirmed and evident. He has been banned - but that ban gave no effect as he kept returning for all these weeks (months?). --[[User:PaxEquilibrium|PaxEquilibrium]] 12:54, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

The next edit, at 12:56, was from User:BusterD, and carried the edit summary:

(→User:Jaakko Sivonen - deleted user info)

I didn't see it at the time, but saw MONGO's note to Pschemp, just before I went to dinner. I looked at the diff, and saw that the personal info had been deleted in the very next edit. I sent an e-mail to the oversight mailing list from this page — the best way to do it, as it gets the entry permanently removed without drawing extra attention to it first. I did wonder if PaxEquilibrium might be innocent. The user who has been posting that info in the last few days normally put it in the edit summary as well, and used IPs or newly-created accounts. I wondered if PaxEquilibrium had copied that info, and then accidentally pasted it into a genuine post, or if the software bug which sometimes causes an old edit to be reinstated when a new edit is made had struck again (which would mean that that info had been posted and then reverted in previous edits to the noticeboard shortly before PaxEquilibrium made his post.

I was going to post to the noticeboard after dinner, suggesting that PaxEquilibrium might be innocent and a glitch in the system might be responsible. However, when I got back to my computer, I found that the info had been oversighted, and Mackensen had unblocked PaxEquilibrium. I endorse the unblocking (though I also endorse the original blocking, as that's an emergency security measure that we take while investigating the posting of personal information).

Since PaxEquilibrium's post has been oversighted, the next post looks as if BusterD posted the good part of PaxEquilibrium's post, whereas in fact he really removed the bad part.

Hope that makes things clear. AnnH ♫ 21:57, 2 December 2006 (UTC)


I was blocked by an autoblock by MONGO. Could someone please lift the autoblock? --PaxEquilibrium 11:15, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
It should be lifted now. Sarah Ewart 11:20, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm the accidental culprit in this. I apologize to anyone affected by my poorly worded communication to MONGO. I had sent a personal email and associated diff which looked strange to MONGO because of the database blanking removing the vandal's tracks. My intention was ask MONGO to offer an administrator's view of the database blanking, which related to a bad vandal I had warned and then was really quickly squashed by an admin. I had no argument with that appropriate action and didn't want to raise any chat on a public talk because I didn't understand the action.
My curiosity about how admin tools work and my poor communication skills were the contributing factors, and I sincerely am sorry for any inconveniences I was involved in causing. BusterD 15:30, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Until reading on this talk page about the terrible mess I caused I was unaware of this page and now know where to turn when I see activity of such a damaging kind. WP Admins were all over this situation in minutes. I had been innocently reading my watchlist, saw the inappropriate posting, and made what I judged the correct change, then warned the user. Before I could report the activity, virtually all database records of this incidents were deleted from my user view. I saw my contributions wiped off, and sensed this was how the pedia dealt with those risks, and then used a back channel to ask an admin I trust for perspective. MONGO misinterpreted my email as a notification and call to action, and MONGO wasted no time protecting the community. That's my first-hand view of what happened. BusterD 15:49, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Montenegrin Demographic data

Why did you delete my entry? I have put source, but you still delete it. Can you explain this? Please check history http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Demographic_history_of_Montenegro&action=history -Ego and his own 14:29, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Did you notice my entry in Source section: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Demographic_history_of_Montenegro&diff=89608035&oldid=87219276 -Ego and his own 15:01, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
You are working here as POV pusher, as you didn't use same rule to other parts of article. This document show that ethnicity of people that lived in Montenegro at that time are called Montenegrin and document author is ruler of Montenegro at that time, if that is not official I really don't know what it is. You have there the source section and all data that you need to find it. It is printed in Belgrade, Published by CID Podgorica 1999. year -"Acts collection of Petar I Petrovic" -Ego and his own 15:35, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Statement by the Ruler of Montenegro that in Montenegro lives Montenegrin people is not demographic data? And the statement that in Montenegro lives Serbs are Demographic data? Can you explain this? Also explain where are sources in that form and details that you have asked for other statements on this page? -Ego and his own 16:48, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
Where is that reference about that? Also see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics -Ego and his own 17:56, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Button

Oh, no, you didn't do anything bad, I understand that I had forgotton to complete a page move for over 20 minutes and had broken the other half of the joke, I understand your motive :) semper fi — Moe 17:15, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: COC

The Church was manned by World War II Nazies... and the sole reason of its existence was to wholesomely assimilate an ethnic group... mostly dealt with forceful subjection. --PaxEquilibrium 15:25, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

So write it like that. With this - I agree. Plantago 15:32, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] POV article

PaxEquilibrium, I see that you have retired but as you have previously been active on some Balkan-related articles so I though I would ask for your time on the Srebrenica massacre article. While no one is disputing the the massacre as such, the numbers killed or that it was a case of Genocide, some of the Bosniak editors are very adamant about using wording, choice of text and sources which provide a very POV article. Attempts to NPOV the article/text (always referenced and explained on the Talk page) are met with quite a bit of aggressiveness. As I'm presently the only non-Bosniak editor active on the article it's an uphill struggle. Your presence would be much appreciated.KarlXII 13:50, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Pax, sorry if I was unclear above. I invited you to the Srebrenica massacre page to act as a second opinion on the ongoing discussions there. Right now it is very polarized and I'd like some fresh editors to the article to maybe calm things down.KarlXII 12:51, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Archont Petar

Can you please repeat all that at Talk:Archont Petar? :) Also add some paragraph breaks to help readability. --Joy [shallot] 00:22, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hello

Good morning Pax (or maybe it's evening or afternoon where you are, but whatever). How come you put a "welcome" template on my talk page? I've been an editor for ages, and got a welcome message ages ago. But still, it is nice to meet a good editor such as youself. Keep up the good work. Bye. - Ivan K 01:37, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re:Critics

Yes, you have a very good point. I'm am truely sorry for what I have done but I just hate it when people act so stupid and don't know anything on the subject, and yet, they contribute to it anyway by putting their false information on it.

I sort of disagree with you about my Montenegrin. I truely do understand it and know how to write it, but I am writing in non-stop English that I am forgetting some words and how to phrase out the words.

Yes, I do have pride in my Montenegrindom, but my actions have led me to downgrade that pride on wikipedia. From now on, I am neutral on many matters. If I know about a topic and write about it, I want people to agree me, not to go against me.

Also, I am terribly sorry for critisizing you for being a "Serb nationalist and using too many pro-Serb sources" when I know you try to stay neutral. I just had this bad hunch that you may be at it "again" while reviewing the talk page on the Duklja article.

You and anyone else may critisize me all you want and I will stop critizising you and any other person. And yes, I can get pissed off very easily at times, but I let it go until I really get ticked when the person who is pissing me off does it constantly.

Well, I see that you're making great hunches on these sockpuppets, though I wouldn't want to go too far with this. Well, anyways, I just wanted to clear things. Thanks again. Bye. --Crna Gora 02:59, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jezici

Hrvatski je skoro uveden kao službeni u Vojvodini (pre nekih 5-6 godina koliko se sećam), a dotle je bilo samo 5 službenih jezika. Bivši srpsko-hrvatski je oko 1990 jednostavno preimenovan u srpski, a hrvatski je desetak godina kasnije uveden kao nov službeni jezik. Što se tiče ustava, Vojvodina je između 1974 i 1990 imala ustav, predsednika, ministarstva, itd, odnosno imala je sve što i tadašnje republike, samo se nije zvala republikom već pokrajinom, a tada je bilo 5 službenih jezika, dakle umesto sadašnjeg srpskog i hrvatskog bio je srpsko-hrvatski. E sad, možda bih o periodu 1974-1990 i mogao nešto napisati u članku Politics of Vojvodina, ali pošto sam sada zauzet drugim stvarima, to će morati da sačeka da nađem više vremena. PANONIAN (talk) 03:46, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Nisam imao vremena da ti ranije odgovorim, ali što se službenih jezika tiče, partizani jesu koristili proglase na raznim jezicima, ali Vojvodina nije zvanično formirana pre 1945, pa se o njenim službenim jezicima i ne može govoriti pre 1945. E sad, da li su svih 5 jezika postali službeni baš 1945 ili je neki dodat tek kasnije, to ne znam. Za ustav Srbije iz 1990 znam šta je pisao o jeziku, ali službeni jezici Vojvodine bili su definisani statutom Vojvodine a ne ustavom Srbije. PANONIAN (talk) 22:30, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rudjer Boskovic

I see I maybe got tangled into things I shouldn't have meddled with. You see, I was always taught that Rudjer Boskovic was a Serb, but I realize that he is considered a Croat. I apologize for complicating things, I was only writing what I thought was right. I won't edit that article anymore... --GOD OF JUSTICE 21:00, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

Rudjer Boscovich had a Croatian father and Italian mother. He was born in Croatia. That would make him Croatian and part Italian. He has no blood or birth link to Serbia. Just Serb propaganda.

God Speed Jagoda 1 22:06, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

He had no blood or birth link to Serbia... well, except his father's humongous interest in Serbia and the its Churches and Monasteries... He wasn't born in Croatia - he was born in Ragusa. As for who his father really was - he indeed converted from Orthodoxy to Catholicism (perhaps), but we all today learn that he was Croat - and so that should it be. The minor less significant Serbian claim should also be mentioned, but only as such. --PaxEquilibrium 21:48, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Are people born in Monaco called French???? Paxi, people of Ragusa were Croats just like you have French in Monaco. Religion and interests is not a factor in someones origin. His father could well have been a Bosniak. I too love the pyramids does that make me Egyptian? Does your love of the Dalmatian dog make you Croatian?

Rudjer Boscovich. He was known as Croat-Italian.

Nobody can change that fact as we know it and have always known it.

Ivo Andric also loved the Serbian culture etc... but his origin was Croatian. It's called respect. Croats and Serbs have always found eachother interesting. Now to get onto your band wagon..Tesla was a Vlach by origin but some say Serb..in the end he said he was Serb and that's what we should write.

This topic has no end..and to tell ya the truth it's areal sick topic. We all know the truth yet someone wants to keep bending it into some SerbPov. Jagoda 1 04:20, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 007

////007 u Crnoj Gori. Cujem prvi put ali vidim da se spomije ...trebamo vidit film. 007 in Montenegro.

Jagoda 1 00:43, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Nisam to znao da je Bond poceo karijeru u Crnoj Gori. Drago mi je to znati sad jer ja volim te filmove ali nisam gledao sve (ima ih dosta, preko 20 haha). Znam da se pricalo da se taj James Bond "based on some true to life Serbian secret agent." Neznam jeli taj Srbin bio za KGB ili nesto drugo..

Kako mogu dati zvezdu User "God of Justice"...zaboravio sam.

God Speed

Jagoda 1 22:02, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Mislio sam i tebi dati jednu zvezdu ali sam je povuko/obrisao. Vidim da tvoj User page nema vise nista jer mozda ti tako volis. Znam da si imao prije dosta tih zvezda. Popov je Bond ..izgleda tako, veruj meni bice i film jednog dana o tom Popovu, mora biti. Cuo sam da ce biti film od Josipu Brozu - Titi, Stallone i De Nero radu dva razlicita filma od njemu. Volio Titu ili ne, covek nije bio tolko los, Tito se borio protiv nacifasisma i moze se slobodno reci on je donekle i zaustavio to u Evropi. Svak ima dobru i slabu stranu ali to je Titina dobra strana.

Opet makedonski pisi kad tolko dobro razumes i znas hahahaa Jagoda 1 00:30, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] CG Wiki

I've started up a CG Wiki at cgwiki.elwiki.com (it'll become a seperate website once it gets 10 articles, and it's for free). If you would like, you can join it (you can become a bureaucrat and a SysOp), though I will need extreeeeeeme heeeeeeeeelp!!!!!!!. And, it's written in the Montenegrin language as intended. Think about it and if yes, come join and help out. Please, just do follow the rules of the Montenegrin language on the wiki when contributing. Bye. --Crna Gora 04:01, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Call him Pixie

Tvoje novo ime je PIXIE Jagoda 1 04:52, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Napiso sam ti nesto na User:Crna Gora i User:God of Justice. Pogledaj njihov Talk. Jagoda 1 04:55, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Your User page

Your User page is already unprotected. User:Zoe|(talk) 19:43, 12 December 2006 (UTC)


[edit] ?

Pixie, Cuo sam negde prije kad si bio User:HRE da ti nisi pravi Srbin (po krvi). Ja sam mislio da su tvoji roditelji poreklom pola Srbi pola Hrvati ali zive u Srbiji. Prvi put cujem da nisi ni jedno ni drugo, nego nesto trece. Izvini ali odakle su tvoji roditelji? Volio bi to znati. Moji su iz Perast/Tivat Montenegro (yes you were right about EG M and me). Govori se da smo Hrvati iz Bosne dosli u Boku preko 500 godina. Obo dvoje su Catolici ali nije to bas 100% da smo Hrvati. Neki drugi govore da smo mi pravi Crnogorci naselili Boku. Moguce je da smo promenili veru kad smo dosli u Boku itd... A i prica ima da smo dosli sa Slavenima na Balkan u 7 stoljece i bili izmedu prvima na Jadranu. Kome verovati, i ko zna 100%? Jos jedno u Australiji sam ucio jezik u Hrvatskoj skoli jer ovde nema bas puno Crno Goraca i Srba. Pa eto mesam jedno i drugo kad pisem.

U vezi Tesle...to je stara vest..pa covek je 100% Vlach..znam da je imao Orthodox veru ali milsim da su njegovi tu veru preuzeli nekoloko generacija prije njega. AAaa ko zna to 100%. Znam da je Tesla sam govorio da je Vlach u nekim tekstima, on je znao to. Ali bio je Srbin na kraju i tako se zna po svetu. Ta istorija je glupa stvar ako idemo tolko back in time svi smo isti iz Afrike hahaha. Na Wiki je pre pisalo da je Vlach i ja sam pitao da se stavi jer se to zna o njemu, ali isto tako da se rece da je Srbin u njegov lifetime. Ancestry je druga prica to je Vlach , a sto je on, to je 100% Srbin. Razumes... Jagoda 1 22:09, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Pa cito sam prije u knjigama - nema nesto na web o tome a i nismam nikad ni trazio. Yuga je mesana - niko nezna odakle su celi narod bivse Yuge. Biraj Iran, Persia, Russia, Poland...ko zna???? Sve su neke verzije ali nista nije sigurno. Trebao bi ti pronaci odakle su tvoji. Mozda si Madjar ili Rumun haha Njavaznije da te razumem...ti si nas.

Jagoda 1 21:58, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Don't retire. Wikipedia needs you!

Oi man, don't retire from editing. You're a great editor as you always engage in discussion, and you're always neutral and objective. Wikipedia needs good editors like yourself, to help counter fools like the one who just posted the above message. - King Ivan 07:37, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

His message just got removed, and also was removed on (I think) all pages he put it on. - King Ivan 08:55, 13 December 2006 (UTC)


[edit] socks

Sorry about that -- after I changed to the checkuser template, I realized that the sockpuppet was not blocked. I have added the {{sockpuppetcheckuser}} template to all the IPs in the RFCU, should I change all of the IP socks to the more generic (unconfirmed) {{sockpuppet}} template? // Laughing Man 21:35, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

I just found the appropriate template {{sockpuppetCheckuser-nb}} -- I'll go through all IPs when I get a chance and update to the appropriate template. // Laughing Man 21:38, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hey

I've just noticed the barnstar... Thanks a lot! --FlavrSavr 00:42, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Obrisani članci

Članke Anti-Bosniak sentiment, Anti-Croatian sentiment i Serbophobia je obrisao Duja, pa moraš njega pitati zašto. Što se tiče novog nicka koji mi predlažeš, radije bih ostao pri starom, jer me svi znaju pod tim. :) PANONIAN (talk) 02:37, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Boka

Haven't heard of it before - I assume it centres around Hrvati from Boka? Do you have any information about it? Cheers, iruka 15:57, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Zanimljivo - ja sumnjam da Hrvati iz boke sampo hoce cuvati identitet, i tako i Srbi; a Srpski partije mislim vidim ovo kao orude da oslabi cvrstu ruku Crnoogorci nacionalisti ima na zemlu? iruka 16:50, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] It's easily explined

It is easily explained: when I log off I loose an IP I was occupying, than somebody else might log on with that same IP, and the other way round. I already told you, ther can be a big number of people using the same IP one at the time.
89.172.18.8 00:22, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Census data

"Have You got census data for the years '48, '61 & '81 for Vojvodina?"

Pa ima sve to u Demographic history of Vojvodina. PANONIAN (talk) 02:32, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Mislim da u tom članku imaš u spoljnim linkovima link do sajta sa rezultatima ostalih popisa. I kako konkretno misliš da uklopim članke o izborima? PANONIAN (talk) 02:08, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
Izvini, zaboravio sam da ti odgovorim, pa vidim da su ti članci o izborima stavljeni u odgovarajuće kategorije, tako da je to dovoljno da neko može da ih pronađe. PANONIAN (talk) 03:28, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] .

So does this mean you're not retired? I'll get around to the Stefan Nemanja article soon.--Hurricane Angel 10:25, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Regarding vandalism on my talkpage

Hey Pax! How are you? Yes, someone has recentlly vandalized my talkpage. Lately some with different IP-adress has been harrasing me with some unbelivable accusations, that I'm a sockpuppet for KarlXII and Osli73 and that I'm a chetnik, I'm a serb, I'm hateful person and so on. Look for yourself: [43] [44] [45] [46]. This must be some really poor person who can't find rest in his life. If he was smart he could see for exampel that I have never edited on the Srebrenica massacre article for exampel. I've only spoken a few times with Osli73 and KarlXII since they are from Sweden. This vandalizer just won't get it but I won't start a discussion with him. I will never lower myself that far. I could guess that he is from Bosnia since he called my something with "pizdune" and I know that KarlXII and Osli73 have had some fights on the Srebrenica article. He could check that I have an IP-adress from Croatia and they an have IP-adresses from Sweden, but hey... Merry Christmass - Litany 23:16, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hello

Please visit my userpage. Thank you. --Crna Gora 16:41, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hey...

Milo je "on the run again" sa njegovima pričama. Što bi neko njega ubijo. Jednostavno grijeh... On kaže da je to planirano ali to je samo priča. Niko u BiH je toliko bitan da bi bio ubijen. Lol. Da li si vidio onu poruku? (prijevod moj). Pozdrav, Vseferović 22:33, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Highly unlikely that such a feat would occur. I mean what is there to gain. Another, maybe even "worse", candidate would rise and continue with the path. Looking at the facts there is no great gain from an assassination. I do not see how the outside world could gain anything. It is a pure farce in which the common man is brought into. The only thing that I dislike in Dodik is his exaggerated belief in RS separation. It is impossible for it to occur, considering that every party in BiH needs the other, otherwise there would be no corruption! They all rely on each other. It is sad. The only "multi-ethnical" party that is trying to rise (but is getting opposition from all ‘’’three sides’’’) is the SzBiH (Stranka za BiH). Those people are trying to unite BiH. Thanks, Vseferović 22:53, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Military history WikiProject Newsletter: Issue X - December 2006

The December 2006 issue of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.

This is an automated delivery by grafikbot 23:14, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] My editor review of YOU

I apologize if I was too harsh, but I think someone opening themselves up for review by posting at editor review wants that, and I don't think I was more harsh on you than other editors I have reviewed, so please, do not take it personally. Thanks for the explanation why your user talk is so high. And though policy is policy, citing and quoting it isn't perhaps always the best way to handle situations. Even the policy tag at the top say there may be exceptions, and some users may not fully understand them or may have never read them and some can be quite difficult to understand how the application of them can go. Dealing with controversial topics should always require someone who is willing to explain softly, no matter how many times or to whom. I think everyone could take a lesson from that. Again, I hope you do stick around for Wikipedia's sake and even if you do take a break, you return. --MECU≈talk 21:34, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] re: !

I don't know what to do anymore. Maybe add part of the "controversey" section back, but in a smaller paragraph, something like this maybe:

"Boscovich is widely believed to have been half Croat due to certain observations, such as his father's birthplace of Orahov Do, and evidence in which he affirms his connections with his Croatian identity[10]. In writings to his sister Anica, he told her he had not forgotten the Croatian language.[11]. Also when he was in Vienna in 1757[12], he spotted Croatian soldiers going to the battlefields of the Seven Year's War, he immediately rode out to see them, wishing them 'Godspeed' in Croatian.[13]."

Maybe it could be put at the end of the "nationality" paragraph?

--Jesuislafete 21:44, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re. Wikipedia:WikiProject Montenegro

Hi. Yes, I've been quite inactive in mainspace editing lately, not just Montenegrin topics. However, I created this (still unfinished) table of Montenegrin municipalities here, and I've also started the table of international recognition of Montenegro here under my previous account. Gotta get back to work soon, thanks for the reminder. Regards,--Húsönd 13:54, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moral

"This user is a war refugee, utopian, globalist, internationalist, idealist, anti-nationalist and cosmopolitan" and gone. It's funny. Utopian, globalist, internationalist, idealist, anti-nationalist cosmopolitism is incompatible with reality. -Ashley Pomeroy 20:34, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks, (but in English)

Hvala ti mnogo. Normalno i tebi ako ga slavis. The admin team is asking me to write only in English if I want to become an administrator. I tried to become one, but they said I needed more edits. So, I withdrew my application, considering that many votes opposing votes were coming from administrators. Pozdrav, Vseferović 18:23, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

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