Talk:Pavlos Melas

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
B	This article has been rated as B-Class on the quality scale.
Additional information: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar: not checked Supporting materials: not checked To fill out this checklist, please add the following to the template call: <!-- 1. It is suitably referenced, and all major points are appropriately cited. --> |B-Class-1=yes/no <!-- 2. It reasonably covers the topic, and does not contain major omissions or inaccuracies. --> |B-Class-2=yes/no <!-- 3. It has a defined structure, including a lead section and one or more sections of content. --> |B-Class-3=yes/no <!-- 4. It is free from major grammatical errors. --> |B-Class-4=yes/no <!-- 5. It contains appropriate supporting materials, such as an infobox, images, or diagrams. --> |B-Class-5=yes/no

	This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Greece; If you would like to join us, please visit the project page; if you have any questions, please consult the FAQ.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale. Please rate the article and then leave a short summary here to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article.
Additional information: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: not checked Coverage and accuracy: not checked Structure: not checked Grammar: not checked Supporting materials: not checked

[edit] Cleanup needed - distorted facts; bias; errors; additions needed etc.

QUOTE: Melas, with the cooperation of Kastorian Ion Dragoumis, ambassador of Greece in Monastiri (now Bitola)

RE: Why using the greek toponym for Bitola - Monastiri? Just because it suits the greek POV? This is the ENGLISH wikipedia fo all of us, it was not made exclusively for the Greek POV (at least I hope not...). The city, in that Ottoman period was oficialy Manastir (in ottoman administrative documents etc. as it was part of Ottoman empire of course). This must be changed and will be changed.

Christos Kottas (who was considered The Father of the Macedonian revolutionaries)

RE: There's no person recorded by history with this name. There is however Kote Hristov (which official greece names as Kotas Hristos from the village of Rulya, whioch was later renamed as Kotas (after the forcible toponym and personal name change by the Greek government in the mid 1920s). Then why Kote Hristov and NOT Kotas Hristos? Even the most devoted "makedonomahoi" such as Karavangelis ADMIT in their own autobiographical books that people such as Kote or Vangel from Strebreno were a slavophones (they spoke slavic). Karavangelis says about Vangelis (he was Slavic by language but Greek deeply in his soul). Ok, there may be disputes whether they were bulgarian or greek slavophone (which I find questionable) etc. That doesnt matter now, what matters is: IF DEVOTED PRO-GREEK NATIONALISTS SUCH AS KARAVANGELIS SAY THAT THESE PERSONS SPOKE SLAVIC, I DONT SEE ANY REASON WHY SHOULD U PUT THEIR NAMES IN GREEK FORM- Hristos instead of Hristov?).
Also, have in mind that Ottoman Turkey was a STATE (maybe not ultramodern but still a STATE), so it had administration, there were lists of inhabitants with their names etc..etc.. the name of these people were Kote Hristov and Vangel from the village of Strebreno (later renamed as Asprogia) and not Vanelis or Kotas or Natsis or anything like that. They certainly fought for the greek cause- no doubt about that, but as I said even the greek side admits that they spoke slavic and thus their original names couldn't be Natsis, or Kotas etc. + note the remark about the turkish administration.

Kote is not a "father" of any revolutionaries, however he left VMRO to serve for the greek side after he have been recruited by Karavangelis (see the book: The Macedonian struggle by Karavangelis). Kote didnt start anything, I dont really understand why "father" is used here? Also the greek side didn't fight for any revolution, but for the greek national interests. revolution is something else, a radical change of the system: from absolute monarchy to democracy (french revolution), from capitalism to socialism etc...etc.. The greek fighters in the Mac. struggle were not revolutionaries and were actually supported by the ruling circles of Greece (the ambasador of Greece in Turkey Mavrokordatos sent Karavangelis to Macedonia, Karavangelis didnt go there on his own initiative motivated by enthusiasm) They fought against IMRO to defend the greek interests collaborating with the turkish forces (especially Rustem Bey all the time, check what Karavangelis says in his own autobiography)

QUOTE: Pop Trajkoff the VMRO, and especially after the Ilinden uprising, he decided to enter Macedonia in June, 1904 to assess the situation and to see if there is any possibility of establishing a military unit to fight the Bulgarians.

RE: There's no such thing as "pop TrajkoFF", but there is however LAZAR POP TRAJKOV, a VMRO revolutionary born in the village of D'mbeni (later forcibly renamed as Dendrohorion). He is an author of the poem "Lokvata i Vinyari", Az-buki publishing, ISBN 9989-9681-9-5. he was killed by Kote Hristov, who cut his head and brought it to Karavangelis for 50 golden liras. --Vbb-sk-mk 06:12, 25 August 2006 (UTC)