User talk:Patto1ro

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Welcome!

Hello, Patto1ro, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! pschemp | talk 02:23, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

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[edit] You and User:Mikebe

You are undoubtedly the same person as User:Mikebe. Since you have voted in AfDs with both accounts, you are violating WP:SOCK. I will kindly ask you to choose one account to edit with. Further use of both accounts may result in me having to take administrative action against you. And we don't want that. └ OzLawyer / talk ┐ 20:24, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

I am not the same person as Mikeb. My name is Ronald Pattinson, born 19.10.1956 in Newcastle upon Tyne. Ask Mikeb what his name is. I can guarantee he and I are different people.

I think you are the same person as Gothean. Can you please use one account.Patto1ro 20:39, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

I've endured much abuse for my attempts to correct the rubbish on the beer pages, but being accused of being someone else is just too much. It is possible that more that one person disagrees with some of the ill-informed opinion that passes for fact in the wikipedia pages.

Your certainty that he and I are the same person tells me everything about your objectivity and how big a role facts play in forming your opinions.

The wikipedia is a great idea in theory, but its domination by egomaniacs without a basic grounding in the subjects they attempt to describe negates the advantages of wider participation.

I have only contributed on subjects where I have a genuinely deep knowledge. Being shouted down by a less-informed majority has demonstrated to me the inherent weakness of the format. Why should I waste my time and expertise in such an ultimately futile way?

Will I choose one account to edit with? I think I'll choose no account to edit with. Asking around beer-writing professionals, I've been struck by their contempt for the wikipedia. After a few weeks involvement in editing, I have to agree with them: its contents cannot be trusted.

I thought I would try to improve the beer pages. I now see it was a total waste of my time. As was writing this explanation.

[edit] Sigh

An intelligent conscientious user would simply admit his error in judgment and turn to editing the encyclopedia with one account. I'd like a neutral point of view to be presented in beer articles which presents both the European and American views, without discounting either side. But if you want to pretend that you are not Mikebe, so be it. └ OzLawyer / talk ┐ 23:44, 3 December 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Groan

Have you asked Mikebe who he is? No, I didn't think so. You have just assumed him and me are the same person. When you have realise we are two different people an apology would be nice.Patto1ro 20:28, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Last word on this from me

Personally, I still believe you are the same person. There are enough similarities that make it fairly likely. I do not have any concrete proof, however, and I cannot perform a checkuser, since your actions do not fall into any of the categories authorizing one. I consider the matter at an end. └ OzLawyer / talk ┐ 21:03, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

It certainly isn't my last word. Throw around accusations, provide no evidence and then try to walk away when you know you are in the wrong. Either admit you were wrong or prove your allegations.Patto1ro 22:11, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Checkuser

I don't have checkuser rights they are at WP:RFCU. However, in the past there has been a general inclination not to perform checkuser on users by request since if a user is making the request they could likely have avoid linking any IPs (I'm not going to go into any detail here per WP:BEANS. There are other reasons as well. If there is any problematic behavior going on I suggest you see our dispute resolution procedure and if you think that anything constitutes serious violations of WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA then to bring it up at the personal attack notice board or at the admin notice board. One finaly point- being called a sockpuppet are about par for the course when dealing with problems and random junk said on the internet is unlikely to alter your "reputation" anyways so it may be best to have a thick skin about it. I hope this helps. JoshuaZ 22:58, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

As a moral person, accusations of being a liar cut me to the quick. I can put up with being called an idiot, aggressive or overbearing. One thing I do not do is lie. I'll be honest with you: I know who User:Mikebe is. We agree on some things, not on others. If I had been asked whether I knew him or not, I would have answered truthfully. But no-one ever did ask. Can you say that no other contributors are personally acquainted?

As a pretty serious beer writer, I think I DO have a reputation to worry about. I've spent 15 years slowly gaining people's respect. Accusations like this could damage it. My email id is also patto1ro - it doesn't take a genius to work out that the patto1ro on the wikipedia is the same person.

Look at our posts: they aren't written in the same style (I can write much better) and we don't even have the same nationalilty - I'm British and he is Dutch.

If Ozgood needs any more evidence of our duality, let him come to Amsterdam to meet us both in person. There is much Mike and I would like to discuss with him in greater detail.

I seek nothing more than an admission from Osgood that he was wrong about Mike and I being one person with two accounts. Is that so much to ask? If his accusation had been true, do you imagine that I would have made so much fuss?

I can accept my (mostly very accurate and well-researched) contributions being edited or removed. Attacks upon my integrity I cannot.Patto1ro 23:48, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Editing other peoples comments

Regarding this edit, it is inappropriate to attribute statements to other people that they did not write. You created the impression that Mikebe had written that text which is not only not kosher, it's also bad form. If it was a joke, it's still inappropriate because you're essentially roping another user into your joke without their permission. Please don't do it again. - CHAIRBOY (☎) 18:10, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Actually, he was editing his own comment there, Chairboy. └ OzLawyer / talk ┐ 18:16, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Blarg, you're right, I misread the diff. Sorry bout that! - CHAIRBOY (☎) 18:24, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Please don't go

That should say it. This may take some time to work out but it would be deeply appreciated if you would stay and continue to help out on the articles. I don't know much about the entire beer matter but am more than willing to learn and do what I can to assist. (Oh, incidentally, I did end up deciding there was enough for checkuser and it seemed to clear the two of you). JoshuaZ 16:52, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I apologize

Patto1ro, I apologize for accusing you of sockpuppetry. With or without the purported checkuser JoshuaZ alludes to, I realize you two are likely not the same person. Please accept my apology. └ OzLawyer / talk ┐ 14:54, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gracious behaviour

Thank you for displaying such gracious behaviour towards others on the Altbier talk page, in the face of others acting less than gracious to you. KP Botany 02:57, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

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