Talk:Patron saint

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Contents 1 Francis 2 What about Albertus Magnus? 3 St Andrew (the Apostle) 4 Mary as patron saint 5 Saint Arnold - patron saint of brewers? 6 Saint Patrick - patron saint of engineers? 7 St. prefix 8 edward the confessor? 9 Patron Saint of those who mourn?

[edit] Francis

Incredible amount of work here:) This definition still isn't good enough: isn't Francis the patron saint of animals?

[edit] What about Albertus Magnus?

Patron of the chemists. He was alchemist. He described the Arsenic so clearly that it is usually thought he discovered it (as mentioned by Isaac Asimov in "A short history of chemistry").

[edit] St Andrew (the Apostle)

In the patron saint of countries section, St Andrew and Andrew the Apostle need to be merged as they appear to be the same person according to the St Andrew article and my own limited knowledge. DavidScotson 15:42, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Mary as patron saint

A recent edit removed the references to Mary and substituted: "The Blessed Virgin Mary is only a Patron of a place in the sense that she is the Patron of All Things blessed and good. Her virginity is famed." That new comment obviously can't stand as is (very POV), but the more important issue is the deletion of the many specific designations. If they're not appropriate for this article, should they be added to the Blessed Virgin Mary article? I've raised the question on Talk:Blessed Virgin Mary as well. JamesMLane 14:52, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Mary is considered the patron saint of many countries (usually under a specific title: Immaculate Conception for U.S.A. and Korea, Nuestra Señora de Guadalupe for Mexico and all America, Nossa Senhora di Buon Aparecida for Brazil, and so forth). I think the page should be restored, maybe with dividing them up into the correct titles. Or to placate the editor who made the change, make a new section "Countries under Mary's patronage", listing them by the proper title. Note that several items that were left in the list by the editor are actually appearances of Mary. -- Mpolo

I believe strongly that the deleted information should be available somewhere -- back where it was, or in a separate section in this article as you suggest, or ported over to the Blessed Virgin Mary article. I don't know nearly enough to adjudicate among these possibilities, though. Someone should be bold and put it somewhere. Meanwhile, I'm taking out the puffery about her virginity. JamesMLane 13:27, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

OK, I decided to "be bold"... Essentially, I just restored what was removed in a different format and in separate sections. Under "Countries and places", I removed from the "generic" list of Marian patronage any place that was listed under a more specific title. I removed most of the links to the titles, as they are unlikely to ever be written, though I left links to some of the better known or more popular titles of the Blessed Virgin. Does it look O.K.? Mpolo 11 Aug 2004

It looks OK to me, but I really am out of my depth here. You've definitely rescued some information (specific titles and associations) that would've otherwise been lost, so you've improved the article, which is the key test. If it's not perfect, maybe some real expert in Mariology will come along and fix it sometime. JamesMLane 07:41, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Saint Arnold - patron saint of brewers?

Is Saint Arnold a real saint? A patron saint of brewers or just a joke? Is he already on this list under a different name? - Tεxτurε 18:45, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)

It's always hard to be sure about these things... Catholic Online http://www.catholic.org/ hasn't heard of him.

At [1] he is cited thus:

"Don't drink the water, drink beer" warned Saint Arnold of Metz (b. 580 AD, d. 640), concerned about the dangers of drinking impure water. He believed that the polluted water caused illness, while the boiled and processed water used for beer was a safer alternative. According to legend he ended a plague when he submerged his crucifix into a brew kettle and persuaded people to drink only beer from that "blessed" kettle. He is reported to have said "From man's sweat and God's love, beer came into the world".

There are multiple versions of a tale about his providing beer to the people. The story is told of porters moving his body after building a tomb for his relics/bones for people to visit. A tired porter overcome with heat uttered a plea to God for a cool refreshing beer. No sooner had this request been made than copious amounts of cold beer shot out of the casket they carried, drenching all and quenching their thirst.

There is a Houston microbrewery called http://www.saintarnold.com/, which at one time had a page on the "Legend of St. Arnold" which echoed this thing from "Beer History", but they have removed the page...

However, at [2] I find real evidence of the existence of "Arnold of Metz" or "Arnulf of Metz", but no mention of brewers. That lead me to [3], which also has no mention of brewers. There is one more site linked from DMOZ / Google directory on St. Arnulf (well two actually, but one is dead), also no mention of brewery.

Hence, my theory is that St. Arnold of Metz as patron of brewers is an invention of the St. Arnold microbrewery that got picked up in various corners of the Internet. I am going to edit the offending article accordingly. Mpolo 19:14, Oct 1, 2004 (UTC)

How can this article be condensed in size?

St. Arnoldus is generally considered as the patron saint of the brewers in Belgium. In the 15th century, the brewers of Bruges build their chapel for St. Aernout, who later became known as St. Arnoldus. Since the brewers became rich in most cities, more and more chapels appeared in churches in Flanders. St Aernout of Tiegem, who was the son of a brewer from Oudenaarde, miraculously filled up a beer tank when workers got thirsty and ran out of beer. A complete book is dedicated to this saint: Smits, Arnold. Arnold van Tiegem ridder-bisschop. Uitgeverij Lannoo. ISBN 90-209-6059-8. Svendebie 02:49, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Saint Patrick - patron saint of engineers?

Catholic Online http://www.catholic.org/ only lists him as the parton saint of Ireland.

I went to school at the University of Missouri at Rolla in the '70s, and the claim that Patrick was the patron saint was justified as follows:

Saint Patrick drove the snakes from Ireland.

A snake is just a big worm.

Therefore, Patrick invented the worm drive.

Worm drives are used by engineers.

Thus, Patrick is their patron saint.

[edit] St. prefix

Is there any reason that some saints have the St./Saint prefix in the list here, whilst others don't? e.g. St. George, Saint Lawrence, David of Wales. Surely there should be some consistency here, even if the page names themselves aren't consistent. Bobbis 6 July 2005 17:25 (UTC)

[edit] edward the confessor?

the anglo saxon king is on the list, is he really a saint

Of course, Edward the Confessor is a saint. His shrine is in Westminster Abbey. He was the original patron saint of England. He is also patron of kings and difficult marriages.

also itd be better if explanations were given on the respective pages as to why they are the patron saint of whatever, for example theres one and it just says pretty much randomly and he is the saint of fighting communism, why? ( that may be joseph )

[edit] Patron Saint of those who mourn?

I thought there was one but I didn't find it on the list.