Talk:Parpanar

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[edit] Parpanar

Parpanar is not a derogatory term .It means Yarivani parpanar one who sees God. This term was first coined by the Brahmins as they were priests and hence considered close to God.Further it is no longer used in the nedia,newspapers,Tv channels or radio. It is a very respectable term.125.22.132.241 17:13, 16 January 2007 (UTC)


[edit] It can be merged with the Iyers or Brahmins

Sorry will not consider it derogatory term.Even at worst impolite.Its meaning is very good125.22.132.241 17:25, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

This article should be merged into Brahmins. Any additional information may be included in the main article. This term is only vogue in Tamil Nadu and is currently a derogatory term. I see no reason to maintain this as a separate article.Parthi talk/contribs 19:02, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Support, as per above ­ Kris (talk) 19:09, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] AFD

I have removed this article from the deletion discussion, as the discussion itself was not created. Optionally, you can prod the article. -- ReyBrujo 18:10, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] No, it cannot and should not be merged with Iyers or Brahmins

First of all, this word is a derogatory word for Tamil Brahmins. That doesn't mean it should be merged with Tamil Brahmins or Iyers entry. This word has a history of its own, created mostly by those who wanted to generate hatred against Brahmins. Would you want to roll anti-Semitism into an article about Jews? Jews have their own history. Their haters created a number of terms and practices that do not belong to the Jews but more to the haters. Similarly, the word parpanar belongs to EVR and his followers and not to the Brahmins of Tamil Nadu. Therefore it should have a separate entry.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by some random guy that commented on this article (talk • contribs).


Seconded - Tamil Nadu is a hostile environent for Brahmins, especially Iyengar and to a lesser degree Iyer (Iyer are Saivites, so they're less hated by the perpetrators of racist fantasies). Of course this all boils down to Macaulayistic theories that invented theories of a "Dravidian race" separate from a fictional "aryan" race.Bakaman 00:50, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
Iyers are not saivites, they are Smartha (see Smartha#Communities). Iyengars, on the other hand, are Sri Vaishnavas, which is a sub-division of Vaishnavas. While anti-semitism is clearly not used in a positive sense with respect to jews, parpanar is a term that was used in a normal sense initially, but later got derogatory connotations owing to its use by a fringe minority (i.e EVR and his followers). We dont want to stress too much on the derogatory side do we? I propose that this article be redirected to Iyers or Brahmins. ­ Kris (talk) 03:19, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
Seconded I agree with Kris.It is no longer used in the Press and in any Tamil Television channel namely Sun TV,Raj TV,Jaya TV etc and in any mainstream Tamil newspaper during the last 15 to 20 years.It was once a respectable term and

further in the legal sense it is not a derogatory term as it means Parpanar to see in Tamil and it is the short of yarivani Parpanar which means one who sees God.Further it cannot compared with terms like nigger etc.It is at worst a slang.Highly disrespectful.Why do you see only the derogatory side to it.As per Sangam Tamil it means a person who leads a simple life and sees Godthe word is more than 2000 years old .Please keep EVR issue out of Tamil125.22.132.241 07:25, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

At present there is only a derogatory side to the word. It had a reasonable meaning about 100 years or so ago. So we have to look at the derogatory side only. Moreover, we cannot separate EVR out of Tamil issues - he has had an influence on Tamil Nadu and has had a significant negative impact on day-to-day lives of Tamil Brahmins - I don't think this should be hidden or easily forgotten. RSekar 20:09, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Don't give us 'Parpanar' used to be a respectable word etc. blah blah

Yes it used to be a somewhat reasonable word before EVR and his henchmen came along. It is no longer a respectable word. It is always the recipient of hatred who determines whether a word is respectable or not. For example, it is up to African Americans to determine whether Negro is respectable or not. Similarly, you can pretty much be sure that 99% of Tamil Brahmins today will consider this to be a derogatory term. Therefore it is a derogatory term.

If someone wants to keep this article, this could be rewritten in the same lines are Nigger. - Parthi talk/contribs 21:57, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Please get the citation for this article

There is dispute over the meaning and the usage of the word.Then revert —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 61.247.247.249 (talk) 12:39, 20 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Why the hurry to delete this article?

So many Tamil-related pages are about trivial movies and marginally important personalities with just one line descriptions. None of them are marked for deletion. Why the hurry to delete this article? As for citations, will provide more. But the ones already given - viduthalai.com and unmaionline should be enough examples and proof that 'Parpanar' is a derogatory term for Tamil Brahmins. These papers use these on a daily basis in that context. This is not to say that they are factually correct - but as proof of derogatory usage, this should suffice. Wikipedia should not bow to pressure from the rich and powerful in Tamil Nadu and delete this article. That would be a big blow for its democratic nature.

[edit] Please give citations to an article not a website

We need to give links to the article concerned not to websites.Could not find an article using that term http://www.viduthalai.com and http://www.unmaionline.com.Further I feel even at the worst Parpanar is like the term Madrasi used for South Indians in north India .While it is at worst disrespectful but not deregatary.Adyarboy 09:20, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

This will be given shortly. Both Viduthalai and Unmai use the word liberally in a derogatory sense. Please take the time to review their articles - not just their headlines (some headlines also do contain the word.) {RSekar 20:07, 22 January 2007 (UTC)}
'Parpanar' is much more derogatory than 'Madrasi'. Also it is used by organized outfits whose goal or resultant effect is Brahmin-hatred. The word is at the center of an entire "theology" that revolves around Brahmins vs. Tamils (implying that Brahmins are not Tamils). Hence the derivative words 'Parpaneeyam'. 'Madrasi' has no such ideological connections or connotations. 'Madrasi' is similar to 'Golt' used in a pejorative sense for Telugus in Tamil Nadu. Again, 'Golt' does not have an extended ideology built around it as is the case with 'Parpanar'. RSekar 21:03, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Requested citations and references given

I have given the requested citations and references. This is only a subset of the vast amount of Tamil journal articles that use "Parpanar" or related words in a derogatory sense. Admittedly these are not mainstream journals, but they are close to the power structure in Tamil Nadu, therefore they wield significant influence. I am repeating the references here:

http://www.viduthalai.com/20070120/snews10.htm "Parppaanin varuNa manappAnmai" - The Brahmin's casteist thought process
http://www.viduthalai.com/20070113/snews05.htm "Parppaanum Parppaneeyamum" - The Brahmin and "Parppaneeyam"
http://www.viduthalai.com/20070112/news06.htm "Parppaan ozhivaana?" - Will the Brahmin Get Eliminated? - EVR's speech - the reason society hasn't been successful is only because of the brahmin (parppan)
http://www.unmaionline.com/2005071/2005071u1.html - "Brahmins are aliens not only to Tamils but to the human race as well"
http://www.keetru.com/periyarmuzhakkam/nov05/gurusamy.html "Parppanarai VeRuppadhu En" - Why I hate Brahmins. RSekar 00:28, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sorry to write this

But I cannot agree with you that every slang used by EVR,Mayawati ,other Religous ,caste leaders should be listed in a encyclopedia if they further not used once in in Television ,Mainstream Tamil newspapers etc .Actually I agree with Kris we are giving them more Publicity than what is deserves and why see the dergotary side alone .We can put this in the Criticism of EVR or rather than have separate article as it is only used by them and not by the general public or 99% read media.We cannot a separate article just because EVR uses it .This is not political forum for articles for against anyone or any movement both are wrong .Anyway let other editors also . 125.22.132.241 17:21, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

I am fine with merging it with EVR's page - as a subsection explaining his techniques for vilification of Brahmins, and how his current followers use the same techniques. RSekar 18:08, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
I am not saying that this article should stay in its current state. But it can be redirected to Brahmins or [Iyers]]. Derogatory or not, EVR or no EVR, the word refers to brahmins, and you cant deny that. Why do you want to brag & crow about that someone insulted brahmins, does it give you a lot of satisfaction? EVR belonged to a fringe group of extremists, and this word was not patented or created by him. So why need we give undue importance to it? Just redirect it to Brahmins or Iyers. ­ Kris (talk) 21:11, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Srkris I agree with you.Yes we should merge with Iyers not give undue importance 81.208.160.25 00:19, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Redirecting to Iyers is the wrong thing to do. That would validate the EVR followers' goal of having everybody refer to Brahmins as Parpanar. Redirecting to Iyers would be like redirecting 'Nigger' to 'African American'. It can be merged with EVR. He and his followers are the only one who use it today. RSekar 17:32, 23 February 2007 (UTC).
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