Talk:Pakistan-administered Kashmir

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и==The merger== I don't support the merger since the phrase 'Pakistani occupied kashmir' means both the Northern areas as well as what is called Azad kashmir. Anand Arvind 09:27, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

Oh come on, this is a propaganda page at best and is pointless as the Indian Occupied Kashmir page was until you got rid of it I might add. We aren't here to cater to nationalist sentiments and this article is frankly useless as it doesn't say anything that isn's stated on nearly all of the other pages (i.e. both sides don't recognize the other's claims to Kashmir). Tombseye 16:09, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

The title may be propaganda (renamed), but the content is valid and neutral. `'mikka (t) 00:36, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Why not rename it 'Pakistani administred Kashmir' instead of Pakistan's part of Kashmir. The later phrase is not used by anybody including Pakistan. Also please mention that India refers to this part as POK. Anand Arvind 00:51, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I've already noticed this. `'mikka (t) 00:55, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Okay, that seems like a fair compromise and I see the rationale given the fact that Pakistan has divided up its part of Kashmir into 2 sections and as long as the writing is neutral I think the problem is solved. Good job guys. Cheers. Tombseye 05:30, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Then Indian administrated Kashmir article mustr also inclde that Pakistan considers it Indian Occupied Kashmir (IOK).

Siddiqui 21:06, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Why not delete the whole history section since it is not just related to the pakistani controlled kashmir and is covered elsewhere. I am in favor of leaving basic info here. Somebody who knows demographics, local culture etc can add those sections. Lets leave all the politics out of this article since it is covered elsewhere. Anand Arvind 08:12, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

A brief historical summary is always OK. If it is "covered elsewhere" (I don't know where; I am not an expert), then use the {{main}} for reference `'mikka (t) 23:40, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

One of the problems is that we probably shouldn't have articles called Indian Occupied Kashmir or Pakistan Occupied Kashmir as those terms just serve as propaganda titles rather than being informative. Both could include references that each side does not acknowledge the other's claims and leave it at that. These problems also show up with the country articles as there are footnotes expressly saying that India claims a border with Afghanistan via Pak. admin. Kashmir. which is just kind of absurd to bring up with one country and not the other. I would simply suggest that both references be removed as the articles on Kashmir pretty much explain the situation and claiming a border isn't the same thing as the actual de facto border anyway. Tombseye 21:39, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

the history section seems too simplistic.the maharaja did not "decide to join india"...he was rather "forced to join"..theres hell lot of difference there..I hope the author makes necssary corrections to make it more authentic.

   "learn history and please do come, he was not forced, but was afraid of losing kashmir to pakistan so he wanted help from indan forces to retreat pakistani soldiers, but according to UN, it was illegal to help other state(since J&K was an independant state at that time). so the maharaja of jammu and kashmir agreed merger with india and thus became a part of india. but nearly 1/3rd part of jammu and kashmir got occupied by pakistan, and india announced ceasefire since the rules of UN were exploited(Note:it was india's stupidity to announce ceasefire)and from then on the 1/3rd of kashmir is with pakistan and india is claiming that part of kashmir OCCUPIED BY PAKISTAN."

1 Kashmir is by product of Defence Corruption in India and Pakistan
2 Dr Karan Singh The would be "Maharaja / king" of all of Jammu & Kashmir
3 Re: Dr Karan Singh The would be "Maharaja / king" of all of Jammu & Kashmir
4 December 2006: Latest comments of Pakistan over Kashmir “The Kashmir puzzle”

[edit] Kashmir is by product of Defence Corruption in India and Pakistan

Red Tape, Bureaucracy, Corruption, Political corruption, Bribery, Extortion, Graft, Money Laundering all are part and parcel of Religon. vkvora 05:24, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

================================================================::

     Kashmir Is An Integral Part Of India. Pakistan intruded illegaly into the territory and retails a major chunk of it.What it call Azad Kashmir is nothing more than a pakistani colony on Indian land.
      Settlements in this region mostly comprise of military , mercenaries , terrorist organisations.People born in this part of the earth belong to niether of the country.They are non-recognised humans.Pakistan uses thier lives for their propoganda and the hate mission................................................Nitin Singh

[edit] Dr Karan Singh The would be "Maharaja / king" of all of Jammu & Kashmir

Hi Deepak please dont remove Karan Singh from Jammu & Kashmir, he is the would be "Maharaja / king" of all of Jammu & Kashmir, please check history. His father was king he stepped down from throne and he acceded to India like so many Royals did from all the Princly States.

Thanks

08:47, 5 December 2006 (UTC)Atulsnischal

Hi Deepak,

What politician are you talking about, he is the KING of all Jammu & Kashmir for gods sake. Please check the history of the state.

Atulsnischal 08:51, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Dr Karan Singh The would be "Maharaja / king" of all of Jammu & Kashmir

So you mean to say Karan Singh is the would be Maharaja of Jammu and Kashmir?! Nevermind, the very purpose of the See also section is to provide links to readers to articles on other topics related to the concerned topic. I just don't understand why would a person who would like to gain some information regarding J&K will go to an article on Karan Singh? Besides, so what if he belongs to a royal family? --Incman|वार्ता 08:55, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Haha.. KING of Jammu and Kashmir.. the last thing I want to know is that India is a monarchy. LOL! --Incman|वार्ता 08:57, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi Deepak

Some people still respect him on all 3 sides of the Borders of J&K, he may someday help people to come together and reach some understanding, atleast he can do some good on his own, he has a historical connection to this disputed land and its people, we can atleast provide a link to people for an important chapter in the history of J&K and a very important personality of the state.

Thats all, I was just thinking the best for the people of J&K, I am not here to fight with you, please rethink and revert

Best wishes

Atulsnischal 09:08, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Well I know that Mr. Karan Singh has a great personality and is a good man but you have to understand the rules of Wikipedia. Adding a link to Karan Singh defeats the very purpose of the See also section and would result in a decline of Wikipedia's overall credibility. I hope you understand the problem and I would like to express my apologies for my earlier argumentative tone. Thanks --Incman|वार्ता 09:19, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Also, at the same time you must realize that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and therefore not the right mean for all this. --Incman|वार्ता 09:24, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Atulsnischal, if you continue with your stubborn attitude, I will have to take up the matter to a Wikipedia administrator or Arbcom. --Incman|वार्ता 19:45, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Hi Deepak

You seem to be obssed with the Jammu and Kashmir article on Wikipedia, anybody can make it out, you have got stuck and are going on and on about it, you dont respect other peoples viws too, as for me I think there should be a link to Dr Karan Singh's article here, which was just a stub, so I was trying to develop it, thats all, you are playing politics over the whole issue, please think with informational and historical point of view.....

I have also copyed this discussion with you in the Jammu and Kashmir as well as Dr Karan Singh's discussion page, just for the record that Dr Karan Singh article was discussed, as it is a legitimate discussion.

If you get time later please help in developing Dr Karan Singh's article on Wikipedia too.

Just for info only as you seem interested: Latest News on Kashmir topic today: http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/12/05/pakistan-kashmir.html?ref=rss

Thanks Cheers

Atulsnischal 20:07, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Of course I am obsessed with the article on J&K. As a matter of fact, a good chunk of that article is written by me (including the History section). And before calling me inconsiderate, look at yourself! Have you analyzed my arguments above in a logical way? You say: "Some people still respect him on all 3 sides of the Borders of J&K, he may someday help people to come together and reach some understanding, atleast he can do some good on his own, he has a historical connection to this disputed land and its people, we can atleast provide a link to people for an important chapter in the history of J&K and a very important personality of the state." Hello! This is an encyclopedia. Not a propaganda website. Anyways, I find this discussion a waste of time and unintellectual. So I won't take part in it anymore as I have better things to do. --Incman|वार्ता 20:31, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] December 2006: Latest comments of Pakistan over Kashmir “The Kashmir puzzle”

"The Kashmir puzzle"

THE HINDU

Online edition of India's National Newspaper

Thursday, Dec 14, 2006

Opinion - Letters to the Editor

This refers to the editorial "Clues to Kashmir peace puzzle" (Dec. 13). Pakistan Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Tasnim Aslam's statement that her country has never claimed Kashmir as an integral part of its territory is a pleasant surprise. She has buttressed her assertion, saying Pakistan-held Kashmir has its own president and prime minister. It is clear that there is a paradigm shift in Pakistan's stand on Kashmir. If it indeed has no territorial design in Kashmir, it should leave the issue to the Kashmiris and stop fighting on their behalf. K.V. Seetharamaiah, Hassan

Ms. Aslam's remarks vindicate New Delhi's stand that Kashmir is an integral part of India. One feels that the latest statements by President Pervez Musharraf and his Government are effective catalysts for a change. K.S. Thampi, Chennai

By stating openly that it has never claimed Kashmir as its integral part, Pakistan has only reiterated the legal position. The Indian Independence Act 1947 gave the princely states the right to choose between India and Pakistan. Jammu and Kashmir became an irrevocable part of India once Hari Singh signed the Instrument of Accession to India. It is an open secret that Pakistan's relations with India have been closely linked to its fixation on Kashmir. When all is said and done, Pakistan's latest statement is welcome, as it is likely to take the neighbours closer to solving the peace puzzle. A. Paramesham, New Delhi

A week ago, Gen. Musharraf said Pakistan was willing to give up its claim to Kashmir if India accepted his "four-point solution." Why should he offer to give up the claim over something his country never claimed in the first place, using a non-existent thing to negotiate? "Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practise to deceive!" (Sir Walter Scott, Marmion) S.P. Sundaram, Chennai

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2006/12/05/pakistan-kashmir.html?ref=rss

Now that Gen. Musharraf has clarified Pakistan's stand on Kashmir, Prime Minister Manmohan Singh should seize the opportunity to settle the issue once and for all. The BJP should not be a stumbling block to the negotiations. M.N. Srinivasan, Vellore

Statements emanating from Pakistan are intended to pressure India in two ways. While they will invoke the wrath of those who favour self-rule for Kashmir, India will be forced to negotiate the Kashmir issue more seriously on bilateral and multilateral forums. The Government should respond with a strong message. Rajeev Ranjan Dwivedi, Dhenkanal, Orissa

Pakistan's latest statement is superficial and bears no significance. It should not be seen as a shift in its Kashmir policy. It is an attempt to mislead the world until the tide turns in Gen. Musharraf's favour. With India set to sign a nuclear deal with the U.S., Pakistan wants to gain some ground and win credibility in American circles. Had Gen. Musharraf really believed that the people of Kashmir should decide their fate, he would have ended cross-border terror by now. Shashikant Singh, Roorkee

Source: The Hindu Date:14/12/2006 URL: http://www.thehindu.com/2006/12/14/stories/2006121404131000.htm

Atulsnischal 12:39, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

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