Talk:Pain (disambiguation)

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Not a huge issue, but "a subject of interest in philosophy" doesn't really say anything. Yes, not everyone will know what qualia are, but it at least describes the topic of the article.

As for Suffering, eh, I'll admit that my summary was a bit fluffy as well, but it seems somewhat better than nothing. SnowFire 21:29, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

For Suffering, see MoS:DAB#Synonyms : pain is often a synonym of suffering, and there is no use to add anything in such a case.

For Pain (philosophy), we should probably say something like "Pain is often referred to in philosophical discussions concerning qualia and the fundamental nature of human experience.". But on second thoughts, what's the use to refer to philosophy of pain in a disambiguation page? So, I think we should simply remove it. Robert Daoust 04:02, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I'll grant that you can cite MoS:DAB there on synonyms. I actually don't agree with that part of the style guide anyway, but I don't think it even applies here anyway. If they were truly synonyms, then they should be the same article or at least have one be a spin-off of the other article, which they aren't.

As for philosophy, I can't agree either. That's exactly the point of disambiguation pages, different senses of the word. In fact, since it uses the exact same word but with a disambiguating parentheses, it is in a sense the most deserving entry. Look at, say, Will for example. I see your point about it being linked from the main pain article, but it's sufficiently different (and not a direct spinoff) that I think it merits a link. SnowFire 22:09, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Well, let's discuss some more. Your example with 'Will' is good, but have a look at Wikipedia A-Z Index at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Allpages&from=Paige_Kreegel : will you disambiguate all those occurrences of pain? ;-) If you insist, go ahead but please include both parts: "philosophical discussions concerning qualia and the fundamental nature of human experience".

You say you don't agree with that part of the style guide: bad argument! I think personally that it does apply here. There are no really 'true' synonyms in language, each word having a bit of difference in its meaning. Moreover, I think that the pain article is somewhat a spin-off of the suffering article, pain being one among other kinds of suffering. Robert Daoust 23:42, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

Should we disambiguate all the ones that someone might reasonably looking for when they type in "pain?" Why yes, yes we should. Length is not a concern. (A lot of the All Pages items aren't likely meanings of "Pain" though; it's highly unlikely that someone wanting the Pro-Wrestling talk show Pain Clinic would type in "Pain.").

As for the style guide, I assure you that I am well aware that style guidelines are not broken without reason. However, if you read what I said again, I said that even if I agreed with that particular guideline, I don't think it applies here as the words are sufficiently distinct. That is my argument (which you have responded to as well, but please don't misrepresent my position). SnowFire 02:49, 19 January 2007 (UTC) Edit: Minor note, browser cut off in latest edit, summary should have been "Let's try this."

Sorry, I did not intent to misrepresent your position at all, but I realize that it looks like that! My sentences were not well enough separated. I meant that on the one hand you don't agree with that part of the style guide and that's too bad, while on the other hand you think it does not apply while I think it does... This being said, don't you agree that pain is a very important synonym of suffering? I think a lot people will go to see pain while in fact they do not mean 'physical pain' but 'mental suffering'. Thus, suffering should be in the first place after 'an unpleasant sensation'.

Besides, I wonder why you restrict philosophy of pain to philosophical discussions concerning qualia, without referring to the even more important discussion concerning the fundamental nature of human experience. In fact, this question is closely related to the preceding one: philosophers often speak of pain when they actually mean suffering... There are few more ambiguous terms in English than pain and suffering! Robert Daoust 15:53, 19 January 2007 (UTC)