Talk:Pai lum

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1 Myth and more
2 Must be a Mistake
3 Pai crossed the border
4 Pai

[edit] Myth and more

Much of what was osted here was written by myself. It is the completion of years of interviewing senior students and friends of Daniel Pai. Each was interviewed and whatever information was corroborated by at least 3-5 independant sources. Since then it has degenerated into an advertisement for one person or another. Wikipedia is not supposed to be about or support myth.

A senior student of Daniel Pai, Marcia Pickhands, publically declared her findings on the Pai Lum yahoo group that the White Lotus Temple never existed. That sort of history only belongs in Terence Dukes kind of books and not on Wikipedia.

[edit] Must be a Mistake

The article states that at age 12, Pai travelled to Okinawa. Given that he was born in 1930 (according to one of the websites listed below) that would mean that twelve-year old Pai travelled to Okinawa in 1942, by which time Japan and the United States were at war --- clearly impossible. People of Chinese descent simply didn't hop in a boat and cross the Pacific in 1942, destined for an enemy state with which both the United States and China were then locked in a death struggle.

-However, Grandmaster Daniel K Pai had ways unbeknownst to most others, even at the age of 12, so there is no doubt in the minds of those who knew him that this did happen.

--I have no doubt that this did happen, as you say, "in the minds of those who knew him". --64.231.61.102 23:49, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

-- Nice word play. : )

It's not that I have anything against the guy, it's that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and factual accuracy is important. Travel from the center of American military operations in the Pacific to one of the Japanese home islands was exceedingly improbable after the war began, and in fact anyone so doing would almost certainly be considered A) a traitor by the Americans and B) a spy by the Japanese. Moreover, for someone of (allegedly) half-Chinese descent to do it would be nearly the equivilent of someone of half Jewish descent deciding to go to Germany in 1942. Add to this the fact that some people claim that the temple to which Pai allegedly went doesn't exist, and the fact that Okinawa became the site in 1945 for one of the most terrible battles of the war, with hundreds of thousands of casualties among both sides and civilian population, and the story begins to look more and more improbable. So, what I'm suggesting is that it's probable that the story is either just that or has been told incorrectly. I'm sorry, because I realize that we're wading into the realm of faith, here (Pai is very nearly described in religious terms by his students, some of whom even ascribe supernatural powers to him --- the ability to move objects without touching them, for instance), but, once again, it's an encylopedia. Facts matter. --129.100.48.70 12:50, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I would never use the words "facts" and "Wikipedia" in the same sentance. No central editorial control and more errors than any human effort has a right to commit. Facts do matter, unfortunately Wikipedia is not a player in that arena.

In any event, I studied Pai Lum in Albany, NY, about 1979-1981. I haven't read anything about the chapter there. It died out by the late 1980s. -- Jango Davis, 01:28 18 Jan. 2007 (UTC)

Your skepticism about Wikipedia's accuracy aside, factual accuracy is important to Wikipedia (which is not the same as saying that it's omnipresent in Wikipedia), and there are many guidelines and policies that drive that point, and even more users who try to ensure that they're followed. There are plenty of errors, both intentional (i.e. vandalism) and unintentional, but no encyclopedia, even with "central editorial control," is without errors. —Erik Harris 16:50, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pai crossed the border

I've been researching martial arts families for almost nine years and it is very possible that this story is accurate. Little is known about young Dan K. Pai's trip to Okinawa but is most probable that he was smuggled onto the island. research has proven that his grandfather Po Fong was very influencial in the inner martial arts community of the time. This community operated the black market underground of the day and if Dan K. Pai was to go to Okinawa, Po Fong would have gotten him, there regardless of the US blockades.

Should I point out that an American who goes to enemy territory in a time of declared war to benefit from what the enemy has to offer is called a traitor?

*We're investigating a story here. Regardless of what label would have been attached had he been caught. Could it be possible that the US (or an 18 year old soldier representing the US) allowed him to pass? Sure. Nothing is pure fact and thats why the controversy.