Talk:Ostafievo International Airport

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[edit] Spelling of the airport name

Moved from User talk:Ezhiki

I reverted your edits in Ostafievo International Airport because Ostafievo is the official name and used in the official website of the company [1] as well as other English sources, documents and promotional materials.--Nixer 06:28, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Ostafievo is not an official name, it's just a spelling choice of Gazpromavia's translator (to see my point, check out the other section of their website). The official name is Остафьево, which we cannot use, because it is in Cyrillic, and Cyrillic titles are against Wikipedia policies. So the next best thing we can use is either the name under which the airport is best known in English (and, as the airport is relatively obscure, there is no preferred version: see [2] vs. [3]) or go with Wikipedia guidelines and use WP:RUS. Besides, I really see no compelling reason to have an article on one airport at Sheremetyevo, and the other at Ostafievo. Please kindly revert your changes.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 13:19, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

According to Google Search Ostafievo is more then 5 times frequent using than Ostafyevo. The same situation with surname Ostafiev. Please do not invent rules that contra what people feel. Using word Scheremetyevo does non make any sence, or shell we for example rename Leon Trotsky to Leo Trotsky because of Leo Tolstoy?--Nixer 14:42, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I am sorry, Nixer, but I understand neither your logic, nor where you get all those examples, such as your "five times more frequent" claim. Google up "Ostafievo"—294 hits. Google up "Ostafyevo"—270 hits. Now, add the "-wikipedia" switch: "Ostafievo -wikipedia" gets 220 hits, "Ostafyevo -wikipedia"—270 hits. Looks pretty darn even to me. Where did the "five times" come from?

Now, as for the "official" name. I am not buing that argument, but even if I were, you are still contradicting yourself here. Like I mentioned before, the official website that you yourself shoveled under my nose, specifies that the airport's name as used in their legal address is Ostafyevo—see?. If you are so keen to stick with the official name, then you would be better off to rename the article back to the y-spelling. Otherwise, it simply looks like you are going to invent new arguments and ignore things you yourself said just to keep your preferred spelling.

As for the surnames, those are different and require a slightly different approach. With two Leos you forgot about the "common English use" rule which applies in that particular case (but does not apply in this, an obscure airport name-related, case).

Finally, I am not the one inventing rules, I am the one enforcing them, instead of relying on some abstract "feel" or whatever other spiritual insights "people" may be having.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 15:19, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Funny. My Google shows 1,470 hits [4] for "ostafievo -wikipedia" and 277 results for "ostafyevo -wikipedia" [5]. If you want, I can show you screenshots. BTW I think we should use the name that is written on tickets.--Nixer 16:15, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Funny indeed. I followed the link you provided and got 220 hits, not 1,470. It's not that I don't believe you, but a screenshot would be helpful. I'll make one as well. This is just too weird not to investigate.

As for using the name written on the tickets, it's an interesting approach. The thing is, Wikipedia policies mandate using a "common English name", or, when there are none (such in this case), whatever Wikipedia guidelines would apply next. For Russian names (geo, personal, whatever), WP:RUS is that next guideline. If there were a rule mandating using names of the airports (not necessarily Russian) as they show up on the tickets/company websites/IATA descriptions/airport reference materials, I would have applied it. As there is no such policy (see WP:NAME), I have to stick with WP:RUS. Like it was said above, why invent new rules when you can apply existing ones. I see no problem mentioning both spellings in the intro line (because my google returns an equal number of hits for both), but the title should be in compliance with existing Wikipedia policies. If you wish to introduce a new naming convention such as Wikipedia:Naming conventions (airports), go right ahead. There is one for aircraft after all, so why not create one for airports as well (I see it has been tried already). If you succeed, I will have no objections to renaming the article to whatever name the new policy would mandate. For now, however, let's stick with the rules that are already in effect.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 17:08, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

If you ran out of arguments, I'll be reverting the name to one compliant with current Wikipedia policies. Thanks.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 16:21, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

My argument is the google result. Please wait a while, I will upload the screenshot.--Nixer 17:01, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

'k, no problem, I'll wait. Is yours still at 1,470? Mine went down to 215 today.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 17:54, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, still 1470, but for "ostafyevo - wikipedia" decreased from 277 to 275. Look at the screenshots here:User:Nixer/Ostafievo.--Nixer 07:45, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the screenshots—this is all very weird. I requested a public comment as to what may be the cause of such a huge discrepancy.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 15:23, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Google results

Here is what I see when I follow Nixer's link. Except for the URL (which apparently is different for IE and Opera users), nothing changes if I type "ostafievo -wikipedia" directly into google.—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 17:15, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Funny, I see 1,460 hits in both Opera 8 & IE. As I understand it, amount of hits could be affected by Google's prefs or OS-dependant HTTP headers. MaxSem 18:28, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Methodology

Bunchofgrapes suggested that we use unduplicated count (one shown on the bottom of the last page of google search results). What numbers do you get with that method? Without specifying a language, I get 85 hits for "ostafievo -wikipedia" and 86 hits for "ostafyevo -wikipedia". When English is specified, the number of hits is 67 and 64 correspondingly. Looks pretty even to me. Are your results any different?—Ëzhiki (ërinacëus amurënsis) 17:03, 31 March 2006 (UTC)