Talk:Osman I

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[edit] comments

I would question the POV of this article, so unctuous in its praise of Osman, that it borders on nationalistic propaganda.

I would agree. Examples thereof:

he had already both proven his skill as a leader, and his prowess as a combatant

He dressed simply, in the tradition of the first warriors of Islam, and like them he wore a turban of ample white linen, wreathed round a red centre. His loose flowing kaftan was of one colour, and had long open sleeves.

a bloodly [sic] lesson to all who should harbour thoughts of contradiction to the fixed will of so stern a lord

I think, however, that this is most likely a result of the page being essentially a copyright violation: it puts a reference at the bottom of the page, but doesn't show exactly where that reference is being cited (probably because the majority of the page is clearly copied from that book); hence, it violates copyright. —Saposcat 09:20, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

The first two examples are not necessarily POV, the third one is not clear as a sentence therefore, also not clear whether a POV or not. --TimBits 18:15, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Granted, they're not necessarily POV; given the context of all of the statements, however, I would definitely argue that they are actually POV.

Anyhow, insofar as they're almost certainly taken from another book (specifically, von Hammer's) without proper referencing, the copyright problem is probably the bigger one at this point. —Saposcat 19:24, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

This is probably one of the worst wiki's I've seen as of yet. Full of nationalistic stuff, however that was to be espected from nationalist Turkish people. Anyone try to fix this?

I know that the article is rubbish but I don't have time to fix it (actually rewrite!!). Deliogul 16:02, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] My İdeas

• Yes, Osman Ghazi prefered a simple life but not because of Islam. He lived according to old Turkish nomadic traditions. Actually, his name wasn't Osman. It was Atakan or Utman(common Turkish names of Osman I.'s time). After two or three centuries, Ottoman historians changed his name to Osman because it is an important religious name(look at Caliphate, Hz. Osman - Uthman ibn Affan). Deliogul 11:22, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

• Also, we have to accept that we don't have clear data left from the time of Osman Ghazi. Today, we know him as a legendary leader both because of his achievements and the legends surrounded all around his personality. Osman Ghazi represents simplicity, bravery and leadership. With respect, Deliogul 10:06, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

• I want to say some new things today. First of all, we have to delete much of the data about his abilities as a warrior and his beauty as a man since they are not that much releated to the Wikipedia's academic point of view. Osman Ghazi was a legendary leader but we can try to find the limits of legends. Saygılarımla, Deliogul 23:20, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

• I propose that we do a direct translation from the Turkish version. The Engish version as of now has nothing to do with it and it is full of subjective information. The Turkish version is well documented and includes more facts than legends. I consider the "hands touching the knees" part not as a praise and rather derrogative. --Devran77 16:08, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anti Turkish Infiltrations

"...Not all of Osman’s counselors agreed with Osman's path of conquest. Osman silenced all remonstrance and quelled all risk of dissension and mutiny by an act of prompt ferocity, which shows that the great ancestor of the Ottoman Sultans had a full share of the ruthless cruelty that has been the dark characteristic of the Turkish Royal House..." Who put these two sentence to the article? What is dark characteristic of the Turkish Royal House? It seems like a copy paste text from a racist anti-Turkish author. I suggest this text to be removed. --Ogulsev 19:35, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I also think it is rubbish. Deliogul 15:29, 23 December 2006 (UTC)