Talk:Orson Hyde

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[edit] Succession to the Presidency

I hate to mention this, but in reality, Orson Hyde would have succeeded Brigham Young as the President of the church, but he died before him. 69.227.142.160

Orson Hyde passed away on 28 November 1878, Brigham Young over a year earlier on August 29, 1877. So, if Young hadn't made the ruling on succession pushing Hyde down the line, Hyde would have been president. But of course, John Taylor was instead. WBardwin 06:29, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Mormon War

The article stated that the Mormons who participated in the "Battle of Crooked Creek" (should be "Crooked River") were from the "Nauvoo" branch of the State Militia. There was no Nauvoo. Nauvoo was after Far West. I've corrected other problems. --John Hamer 15:08, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the primary source and rewrite. Much better. Similar info should probably go into Thomas B. Marsh, as well. RE: casualties at Crooked River, the Mormon's were also Missourian's and they lost men, including David Patten. Should we then list the losses on both sides? WBardwin 15:48, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, yes -- I added the Mormon losses, including Patten. It's really tough to come up with simple labels for encyclopedia readers. Like you say, the Mormons were also residents of Missouri, but it's hard to label the non-Mormon Missourians "non-Mormon Missourians" every time. Contemporaries tended to frame it as "Mormons" vs. "Missourians" --- with the sense that the so-called "Missourians" were prior settlers into which group the Mormons had no desire to assimilate. It's hard to use the terms "vigilantes" and "militias" since there was cross over on both sides. When the Mormons were operating defensively in Caldwell County they were technically a militia and when they crossed out of the county they became vigilantes or an illegal militia. Likewise, if Bogart's group crossed into Caldwell (which it probably did) it was operating illegally or as vigilantes while there, but they were legal in Bunkham's Strip. Likewise the Livingston/Daviess group that illegally entered Caldwell Co. and massacred the Mormons at Haun's Mill was operating as vigilantes even though it contained militia elements. The confusion between "mob" and "militia" (on both sides) no doubt was extremely confusing at the time as well.--John Hamer 19:57, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)