Talk:Operation Rolling Thunder

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I reverted the new addition because it is taken from [1] (at least partly). To whomever added it, any copyrighted material that you wish to release under the GFDL is more than welcomed, but something more than a comment on the summary is needed as anyone could have claimed that. Please, put a note on the site that claims copyright saying that the information is under the GFDL, or write some more specific information here on the talk page (i.e. who you are, which information is under the GFDL, and from which site it comes) so that Wikipedia has some sort of record. thank you, Dori 17:47, Nov 29, 2003 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Statement regarding copyright of text

My name is Lee Brimmicombe-Wood. I am the copyright holder of the material posted at http://www.airbattle.co.uk/d_history.html and I can be contacted by e-mail at: lee@damfine.demon.co.uk if confirmation of my identity is required. I am happy to make the information on the page above available under the terms of the GFDL.

I shall restore the page with the material I posted. Thank you.

-Lee Brimmicombe-Wood 20:31, Nov 29, 2003 (GMT)

Thank you for posting the message and for providing the text for the article. Dori | Talk 21:02, Nov 29, 2003 (UTC)

I have added a link from the original page [2].

-Lee Brimmicombe-Wood

[edit] Figures

Aren't any figures concerning casualties (in air-planes, civilian lives, ...) available? --Malbi 19:11, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

DONE.--Buckboard 11:31, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] COMBAT AUDIO RECORDING

I possess 8 x 20 minutes of Operation Rolling Thunder (ORT) "Combat Audio Recordings" appropriate as links from Rolling Thunder, F-105, Wild Weasel but likely would require an extensive description of the jargon used, and the actions taking place.

I have little skill in the functioning of these pages, so cannot personally create the insertions.

As a veteran of ORT I believe that Dori's contribution (above) is functionally accurate. With a single exception, I have seen no detailed military records of aircraft lost, bombs dropped, military or civilians killed on either side. It is possible that these estimates were intentionally suppressed. (I believe 334 F-105 lost in combat to be an logical figure.) User:Spoongap

Losses were NOT "intentionally suppressed, as anyone who lived during the war will remember. The news reported every loss in painful detail just as they do today in Iraq ("the 594th aircraft lost in North Vietnam"). The figures are available on this site, under the "list of aircraft losses" shown near the bottom of the main article. There is a dearth of information regarding casualties on the ground, but tonnages, aircraft losses, personnel losses--all of that is "out there" in many places. I too am a USAF Vietnam vet. --Buckboard 09:23, 15 March 2006 (UTC)


[edit] More figures

Can someone add details on pilots KIA, MIA, captured and so forth? Are there any official number of MiGs shot down? Aircraft losses by type and year? If someone can just point to the information elsewhere I'd be happy to add it in. Wsacul 06:47, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Online External Links and Citations

I like the recent addition of a lot of citations to books, but aren't there more online resources to link to? If someone were to read some of the declassified CIA docs and so forth with info on Rolling Thunder and link directly to those that would be great, instead of relying all on inaccessible books. Wsacul 18:04, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

  • You are absolutely right. So why not add them? RM Gillespie 18:23, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

All the government documents are online, so I linked to them. Some of the links are into big databases and may become unreliable- I'm not sure if wikipedia wants a bunch of bloated 20 MB pdfs uploaded but that would be the ideal solution. Also is it possible to cite directly to some spot in a pdf? Wsacul 21:52, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

  • I remember reading somewhere that it was not possible (at present) to go directly to a specific spot within a PDF. Since the PDFs follow the same pagination format as the printed originals, quotations are not a problem. RM Gillespie 15:57, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

What's the point of listing your thesis as a source if it can't be bought or downloaded? Do you not have permission to put it online? Can one even theoretically check it out from the library of your school? Wsacul 06:30, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

  • Theoretically speaking, yes, all thesis and doctoral dissertations are (and have been since at least the middle of the 20th century) available through yer local library (interlibrary loans). That's why they are often quoted in many historical works. RM Gillespie 09:50, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Policy failure?

Let me see if I remember correctly, Lyndon Johnson was president, which means that he was the commander in chief of the U.S. armed forces. The policies that you refer to were military decisions. Those decisions were wrong and the campaign failed. Thats not a defeat? The Joint Chiefs, the president's chief military advisors, agreed with the president (although they may have held differing opinions among themselves). The problem with assigning blame only to the political decisionmaking process during the conflict is that it is incorrect. The chiefs were responsible for the decisions that they made - or endorsed. And they endorsed every decision that Johnson made. I do not remember the chiefs lining up to resign their positions in protest over the administration's decisions. This problem with the U.S. military high command has not gone away with time, unfortunately. RM Gillespie 02:55, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

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