Talk:Open source vs. closed source
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"Every bit of the system was produced by one company, so naturally the parts work together well."
212.72.22.53 06:04, 6 December 2006 (UTC)How funny, does the author know that the software is now developed at multiple offshore locations? most of them are the third world countries like China & India. You never know how they Program!
You never know what Hidden Bugs they may keep.
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[edit] POV
This article only seems to contain arguments against open source / for closed source and their rebuttal. I think it lacks arguments why to use open source in the first place. --212.99.194.14 00:46, 8 August 2005 (UTC)
- yes, this article is extremely one-sided. It essentially takes successful open source projects and then says, "See? They work. Criticism of OSS is wrong!" That's not NPOV. El T 00:29, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
- Definately biased. I'd like to make it a little more objective, but I just don't have the time on my hands right now, maybe an administrator could put a bias warning on the top??
- Do you think we should split the page into "pro-open source" and "pro-closed source" kind of like the Windows vs Linux page? Strake 11:55, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
I have been trying to add a bunch of more substantive content, including several new sections.So far I haven't done much to touch the existing content, but I think it's time to get rid of the existing "Control" and "Missing technological components" sections, as a start. Ldo 04:37, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
- Done. Ldo 19:46, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
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I did massive edits I think may clear some biases. This is horrible. I think some resons this may be so one sided is that Wikipedia is open source. This article however makes me REVOLT at open source. Seriously, this is horrible. Here is my opinion as a Windows User using Firefox. Open Source Less Popular so Less People Look for Holes. More People looking to solve holes then those exploiting. Closed Source Wide use driven by commercial nature. Smaller group fixing holes then those looking.
See? Its pretty simple to me. I dunno though. My honest opinion is that this page is written by a smug Linux user who likes to smell his own farts and say "I am root" and this makes me hate it. This is part of the reason I hate Mac users. SMUGGNESS ONLY RECOILS PEOPLE! I love open source, but this article has to be inforitive. If you guys see anything wrong with my edits, please fix them. I only would like this page to be wiki quality. - 68.228.33.74 04:24, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
- They look good so far...may be surgery on a dying patient though. If you're feeling ambitious you might try restructuring from scratch keeping as much of the informative content as possible. Antonrojo 05:08, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Mozilla Firefox innovative
What does Mozilla Firefox that qualifies it to be listed at Innovation? -- mms 22:35, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
- Some reliable sources seem to think Firefox is innovative. For example, eWeek and CNET. -- Schapel 22:52, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
- I still don't know, what's so innovative at Mozilla. IE is no rival for it. If we list an innovative Browser it should be Konqueror. -- mms 00:56, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
- Do you have a reliable source that calls Konqueror innovative? And even if so, why not list both? -- Schapel 01:10, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
- Some innovative features are already listed in the article Konqueror. In 2003 dot.kde.org wondered about the KDE's "innovations", in 2005 Hanno Böck wrote all browsers are crap except Konqueror, in 2007 Chris Spackman wrote about his experiences of Switching from KDE to WindowsXP with a detailed look at WinXP's file manager, Explorer, and KDE's file manager, Konqueror. -- mms 02:15, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
- Those sources look like blogs and forums, and thus probably don't meet the criterion of a reliable source according to Wikipedia. As you may know, information in Wikipedia must be verifiable by citing a reliable source, so we can't say Konqueror is innovative unless a reliable source says as much. -- Schapel 03:00, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
- The Konqueror has little media coverage. cnet.com hasn't an single article about it. But Jim Rapoza (eweek.com) wrote 2003 that Konqueror and Opera are more innovative than Mozilla. -- mms 04:23, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
- No, that's part of his speculation that "there is also the possibility that Mozilla innovation could slow down and the browser could be surpassed by more innovative products such as Opera or Konqueror." Mozilla innovation has not slowed down, so it has not been surpassed by those other products, so therefore the four-year-old speculation was clearly incorrect. And remember that we must represent views fairly, proportionately and without bias. If there's very little mention of Konqueror and much about Firefox in the media, it doesn't make sense to mention Konqueror and not Firefox, as that would be out of proportion. It may make sense to mention Konqueror further down the list, for example. -- Schapel 13:28, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
- No, commercial success does not equal innovation. Media coverage does not equal innovation. Popularity does not equal innovation. NPOV has nothing to do with innovation. KDE is far more innovative than Windows and Mac OS, and Konqueror is its core application. -- mms 19:28, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
- You are correct that commercial success does not equal innovation. You may even be correct that Konqueror is the most innovative browser. However, the threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. Can you find a reliable source that verifies this claim? If not, we cannot make the claim in Wikipedia. -- Schapel 19:40, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
- I already linked to http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1158505,00.asp where Jim Rapoza wrote that Konqueror and Opera are more innovative than Mozilla. There is also an article in Linux Magazine #56 which states that Konqueror is an innovative application. I would also say that the comments at dot.kde.org are reliable since they are the developers. And I could argue that it is commenly known that Konqueror is innovative. I'm using it since version 1.0 and I know it is innovative. -- mms 21:16, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
- Again, it doesn't matter what you know, or what is "commonly known". What matters is what is verifiable from reliable sources. Again, Jim Rapoza never said that Konqueror is more innovative than Mozilla. He said that there is the possibility that innovation at Mozilla could slow down, and if that happens that other browsers could become more innovative. I don't think the opinions about whether Konqueror is innovative at dot.kde.org are considered reliable because they're clearly going to be biased in favor of their own applications. But you do have a reliable source (Linux Magazine) that says Konqueror is innovative, so feel free to add it to the list of innovative open source applications. -- Schapel 22:40, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
- I already linked to http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1158505,00.asp where Jim Rapoza wrote that Konqueror and Opera are more innovative than Mozilla. There is also an article in Linux Magazine #56 which states that Konqueror is an innovative application. I would also say that the comments at dot.kde.org are reliable since they are the developers. And I could argue that it is commenly known that Konqueror is innovative. I'm using it since version 1.0 and I know it is innovative. -- mms 21:16, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
- You are correct that commercial success does not equal innovation. You may even be correct that Konqueror is the most innovative browser. However, the threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. Can you find a reliable source that verifies this claim? If not, we cannot make the claim in Wikipedia. -- Schapel 19:40, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
- No, commercial success does not equal innovation. Media coverage does not equal innovation. Popularity does not equal innovation. NPOV has nothing to do with innovation. KDE is far more innovative than Windows and Mac OS, and Konqueror is its core application. -- mms 19:28, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
- No, that's part of his speculation that "there is also the possibility that Mozilla innovation could slow down and the browser could be surpassed by more innovative products such as Opera or Konqueror." Mozilla innovation has not slowed down, so it has not been surpassed by those other products, so therefore the four-year-old speculation was clearly incorrect. And remember that we must represent views fairly, proportionately and without bias. If there's very little mention of Konqueror and much about Firefox in the media, it doesn't make sense to mention Konqueror and not Firefox, as that would be out of proportion. It may make sense to mention Konqueror further down the list, for example. -- Schapel 13:28, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
- The Konqueror has little media coverage. cnet.com hasn't an single article about it. But Jim Rapoza (eweek.com) wrote 2003 that Konqueror and Opera are more innovative than Mozilla. -- mms 04:23, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
- Those sources look like blogs and forums, and thus probably don't meet the criterion of a reliable source according to Wikipedia. As you may know, information in Wikipedia must be verifiable by citing a reliable source, so we can't say Konqueror is innovative unless a reliable source says as much. -- Schapel 03:00, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
- Some innovative features are already listed in the article Konqueror. In 2003 dot.kde.org wondered about the KDE's "innovations", in 2005 Hanno Böck wrote all browsers are crap except Konqueror, in 2007 Chris Spackman wrote about his experiences of Switching from KDE to WindowsXP with a detailed look at WinXP's file manager, Explorer, and KDE's file manager, Konqueror. -- mms 02:15, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
- Do you have a reliable source that calls Konqueror innovative? And even if so, why not list both? -- Schapel 01:10, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
- I still don't know, what's so innovative at Mozilla. IE is no rival for it. If we list an innovative Browser it should be Konqueror. -- mms 00:56, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
- As to what the innovations are, I think it makes more sense to speak of the Mozilla project's innovations than innovations in just their current product Firefox. Among possible innovations, we could list the very idea of open-sourcing such a popular product (Netscape had about 50% usage share when its source code was open-sourced in 1998), creating their own cross-platform user interface (XUL), continued improvements to JavaScript with version 1.7, and working together with the WHATWG to develop new web standards, some of which are being implemented in Firefox. In fact, I would have a hard time thinking of a group that has been more innovative in the field of browsers, other than Tim Berners-Lee, inventor of the web. The fact that Firefox has copied features of other browsers need not be mentioned, as I'm sure all browsers besides WorldWideWeb have copied features from other browsers. -- Schapel 03:20, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] ...
Open Source is better end of
[edit] Eureka
This could be the single worst, most biased, and unsourced article on Wikipedia. A random editor rising from the unwashed masses from the Internet could rightfully delete 60% of the competely unsupported nonsense found here. Congratulations, fools.--Rotten 06:54, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
It's pretty bad. But not beyond help. Take a look at the Windows vs. Linux article. 3 months ago it was unbearable banter between windows dorks and linux fan-boys. Now it's been cleaned up into neat tables full of useful and relevant information presented in a (mostly) non-biased language. This article can do the same. Hendrixski 21:23, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
