Talk:Old Japanese language
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I would like to expand this topic with much more detailed linguistic informtaion. I would appreciate help in merging it with the content already here. I will try to complete it within the next few days, depending on time constraints. Bendono 11:05, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Questions
Am I correct in understanding that "Quadrigade" corresponds to the modern consonant-stem verbs, such as aruku, tatsu, etc., while "Upper Monograde" corresponds to modern vowel-stems? Do the "k-irregular", etc., mean that they end in ko2, ki1, ku, kuru, kure, ko2? What is the difference between the two rows on each of the adjective types? E.g., what's the difference between -ki1 and -karu? What are the differences between teh various pronouns listed, such as wa, a, ware, and are? Nik42 07:23, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
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- Thank you for the review. I added a few notes of clarification to the verbs and adjective sections. I will add more to the pronoun section a little later. The article is rather bare now and I plan on updating it in the near future. Bendono 08:53, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Subscript numbers
Maybe I'm just missing it, but I don't see any explanation of what the distinction is between vowels with subscript 1s and vowels with subscript 2s. Kairos 21:55, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
- It is discussed in the both the Phonemes and Transcription sections. Also, there is a link to Jōdai Tokushu Kanazukai. As stated, it applies to the entire syllable, not necessarily only the vowel. There are various theories, but there is no general academic agreement. In time it would be nice to discuss the theories in more detail. It is one of the most hotly debated topics in Japanese historical linguistics. If the wording is not sufficiently clear, please feel free to improve it or make suggestions as necessary. Bendono 00:30, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Infobox
I believe it's somewhat misleading to claim that Old Japanese was spoken in "Japan", considering that the modern state is a rather modern concept. Hokkaido, for example, was colonized very late. I don't know the exact extent of the language but I feel the information should be more specific.
Do we have any information of the various stages of Japanese? When does the Old Japanese period end? Was it followed by "Middle Japanese" or did it go right into modern Japanese?
Peter Isotalo 20:48, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
- Many wooden tablets ("mokkan") written and dated to the Old Japanese period have been excavated from all over the country. Also, several dialects are recognized. The most prominent of them is the "Azuma" (=Eastern) dialect which is contained in Books 14 and 20 of the Man'yōshū. (This is most definitely not Ainu.) Listing anything more specific than "Japan" will be most misleading and imprecise.
- Old Japanese ends in 794 when the capital moves from Nara to Heian. It is succeeded by Late Old Japanese (sometimes called Classical Japanese). The general divisions are as follows: Old Japanese (-794), Late Old Japanese (aka Classical Japanese) (794-1184), Middle Japanese (1185-1333), Late Middle Japanese (C1333 - 1600) Early Modern Japanese (1600 or 1603 - 1867), Modern Japanese (1868-). Except for Modern Japanese, I plan on writing about all of these over time. Bendono 02:26, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
