Talk:Ogygia

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[edit] Ogygia is not Atlantis

Notice the passive tense of non-attribution, a flag for bogus statements, and the generic attribution of "others":

"Ogygia was believed to have been an island in the Mediterranean that sank following a huge and powerful earthquake, which shaked the area before the bronze age.

"It was also believed that Ogygia was a part of sunken Atlantis.

"Others say that the island of Ogygia still exists and that the island is now known as the island of Gozo, the second largest island in the Maltese archipelago. These people claim that this confirms the existence of Atlantis and that the Maltese archipelago, together with some other islands, is the residue of Atlantis."

This has little to do with Ogygia, which exists in the Odyssey alone. Wetman 06:04, 21 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Nitpick: the passive is a voice, not a tense.

But yes, Ogygia has nothing to do with Atlantis, nor should this article confidently state that the Odyssey describes the Atlantic Ocean. Akhilleus 04:36, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Ogygia presumably existed in the 2nd millennium BC. Atlantis was lost presumably seven millennia earlier. So clearly Ogygia is not Atlantis.

Ogygia was also visited by the Argonauts. According to Argonautica, Argonauts travelled in the Atlantic Ocean.

The dispute as to whether Odysseus travelled beyond the Pillars of Hercules is almost as old as Homer. Plutarch was one of the last priests of Apollo at the Oracle of Delphi and he would probably had access to secret texts of the Oracle. Therefore I take that he has backed up his account by other sources. Odysses (☜) 15:16, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

My point is that the article shouldn't definitely state that Ogygia is in the Atlantic. It's fine to say that some people think he did, but clearly not everyone agrees about this. As you point out, not everyone in antiquity thought that Odysseus travelled outside of the Mediterranean, and many modern classical scholars think that Odysseus' wanderings have little to do with the geography of the real world.

Still, the article's statement that "The river-stream of Oceanus quoted by Homer can be identified today as the Gulf stream" makes it sound like a definite idenification has been made.

Where is Ogygia mentioned in the Argonautica?

I don't think you'd find too many scholars agree with the idea that Plutarch had access to "secret texts", but in any case they'd be unverifiable to us Wikipedia editors.

Something that would be good is to have more sources in the article: perhaps to quote Homer's description, but also to have some modern sources. What source says that the ocean's current=the Gulf Stream? What source says that Maltese patriots think that Gozo=Ogygia? Akhilleus 06:41, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What Some Greeks Believe

If it is of any interest to anyone, it is the belief of most Greeks in the region of the Ionian Islands that Othonoi, the westernmost point of Greece, is Ogygia. The cave located on the island is known as Kalypso Cave. This was the birthplace of my grandparents. There is no documented evidence, and I am stating this for no other reason than to share information! Othonoi is one of several islands that are located northwest of Corfu. Only Othonoi, Erikousa, and Mathrace are inhabited today. I have been there and it is a lovely place. I could not see the cave; it is visible only by boat and the sea was not cooperative. Maybe next time!

Forcasey