Talk:Oceanic Flight 815

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article was nominated for deletion on January 7, 2006. The result of the discussion was Move to Oceanic Flight 815. An archived record of this discussion can be found here.

I'm not sure about the seating of Bernard. Next to Rose on her right hand side during the flight was an empty seat, and it would seem to make sense for Bernard to be sitting there and not next to Jack.

How can I clean up this article?01:05, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

• Formatting. The article's layout is clunky and difficult to navigate.
• Grammar. The article is not using proper English conventions (ie, it's Oceanic Flight 815, not oceanic flight 815)
• Relevance. This article seems to include many details that really aren't relevant to the article, including the DAB template referring to Lost, and the television series infobox.
• Introduction. The introduction should be more specific about Oceanic Flight 815. This is not an article about Oceanic Airlines, nor is it an article about Lost. It is an article about a specific fictional airline crash.

Blu Aardvark | ^{(talk) | (contribs)} 00:28, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Eh, I just looked at the article again, and it is greatly improved since I moved the page. It has a better introduction, less clunk, and many of the grammatical errors have been corrected. --Blu Aardvark | ^{(talk) | (contribs)} 00:30, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

I've been rewriting some of the sections to be clearer, and fixing the (myriad) grammar issues. Verification on some of the sections could be nice, for example, on the fictional account, is there any kind of quotable source, or is it fancruft? - CorbinSimpson 03:32, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Contents 1 Images 2 Google Earth Easter Egg 3 Do I smell Dutchglish? 4 Google Earth Easter Egg Part 2 5 Quite a Mess 6 What type of aircraft is this flight? 7 How many in the tail section? 8 Which podcast 9 Good source for article 10 Vincent 11 Diary Revelations 12 Error or sabotage? 13 Crash Infobox 14 Deletion 15 Crash 16 Oceanic website 17 Coincidence? 18 Trivia 19 Christian Shephard's body? 20 Hurley and Walt/Michael 21 Seat Numbers? 22 Body count

[edit] Images

I noticed that the images in this article are tagged with {{NoRightsReserved}}. I don't believe that this is the accurate copyright status, but could be mistaken. Shouldn't they be marked as {{tv-screenshot}}? --Blu Aardvark | ^{(talk) | (contribs)} 01:57, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

I didn't look into it before, but yes, they should be tv-screenshot. - CorbinSimpson 03:32, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

• I've corrected all but Image:Flight815.jpg and Image:Oceanic airlines.jpg, which do not appear to be screenshots, and likely fall under some aspect of fair use. --Blu Aardvark | ^{(talk) | (contribs)} 06:45, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
• I the image of Adobe Airlines (Flight815.jpg) of any use? (unsourced too). Looks like one of those models airlines sell (no windows, landing gear down etc.) photoshopped with sky & clouds Scoo 19:21, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Google Earth Easter Egg

I tried it and I ended up in the middle of Africa. I think there is an error. - BlackWidower 01:27, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Do I smell Dutchglish?

Someone crapped on this article with poor English. Can someone please mind fixing it a bit? Things to note: "succesfull", unbeliavable stupidity in forgetting to capitalize the first letter in names, "un populated" odd tone (an encyclopedia is not a story book, or a speculation column), using ' instead of ", because 's are used only INSIDE quotes (""). People should be banned from editing articles like that.

Please. --84.249.252.211 12:28, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Watch it. Although the user might not be able to speak English in a native manner, there is no reason for you to insult him/her. Please read WP:CIVIL. Furthermore, if you think there is unencyclopedic language in the article, {{sofixit}}. SoothingR 12:31, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Google Earth Easter Egg Part 2

I have tried the Google Earth easter egg, and as BlackWidower stated, it just takes you to the middle of Africa. However, the end of the article states "Also, entering the coordinates 4.815 162.342 gives you a small island of the Western coast of Africa which has lead many lost fanatics to question whether or not the survivors are infact in the pacific ocean at all". I have also tried this, and it takes you to an empty area of the Pacific Ocean. But, just to the top and right of the coordinate shown on the map, there is visible a small island by the name of Kosrae. I doubt this is the island that is referred to in the show! - Dissonant Unity 13:32, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Quite a Mess

This page was a staggering bastion of cruft, OR, and speculation. I've done my best to trim out that unencyclopedic material, and what's left can be built up into a more solid, if short, encyclopedic article with source information added. An article doesn't need to be long to be good. It needs to be factual, verifiable, free of OR, and sourced. Baryonyx 10:42, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Good rewrite. This new article is now up to par with other Lost articles. Jtrost (^T | C | _#) 13:26, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What type of aircraft is this flight?

I know that the article used to include the type of plane that was used for the crash debris. I think that it was the L-1011, but this aircraft only has a range of 5500nm. Both the L-1011 and the Boeing 777 (that could go that far but would be much bigger) cruise at .83 mach. The great-circle route from Sydney, Australia to Los Angeles, California is 6500nm. At the cruise speed of .83 mach, after three hours on this course they will be within 60nm of the international airport on the north side of Viti Levu, Fiji. They must have been off course since almost the beginning of the flight. If they were off 1000nm to the south, they would have been closer to New Zealand. If they were off 1000nm to the north, there would have been closer airports to divert to than Fiji. Val42 00:58, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

The debris shown is from a Lockheed L-1011 Tristar, no doubt about it. The "rouge engine" shown in the pilot episode was a Rolls Royce RB.211, as consistant with the L1011 aircraft. I do not watch the show, nor do I intend to argue what has been said in the script. I just know that the plane was a L1011. With that said, I think the air crash template should be either modified or removed, as the data is inconsistant and not verifyable. --KPWM_Spotter 18:43, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Reverted the infobox back into the page. It is a nice, clean, addition - Plus it summarizes the mishap conisely and clearly, in my opinion. Check-Six 19:48, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

A few observations. The wreckage on the island is indeed an L-1011 (formerly N783DL with Delta Air Lines). However, the flight scenes all show a twin engine aircraft, which would appear to be intended to be a Boeing 777. This is indicated on the Oceanic Airlines website. Why not use 777 wreckage on the island? Well, there isn't any readily available, being a new aircraft type, whereas there was an L-1011 available, given that Delta had just completed retiring their fleet. And unless you're a rivet counter, they are similar enough. If you are a rivet counter though, another interesting thing to note though is that when we see the tail section in the water during season 2, it is very clearly that of an Airbus widebody such as the A330. Whether this was intentional or just a lack of research, well I guess that's open to interpretation. Nick Moss 12:35, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

The aircraft looks like a Boeing 777-300ER (ER = Extended Range) from it's length. The normal -300 could only make halfway. The engine could be LARGER (the size of the fuselage of a Boeing 737) than the one in the pilot... --IrfanFaiz 07:10, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

FWIW, the trivia section of L-1011 currently states that the wreck set piece is supposed to represent a DC-10. cygri 14:19, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] How many in the tail section?

Over the past few days, the number of survivors from the tail section has been bounced back and forth between 22 and 23. Would someone please find a definitive quote, with episode title and who said it? Until then, just leave it where it is. Val42 03:00, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Jezabelda: 23 survivors...in episode four of season 2 "Everybody Hates Hugo", the character Libby says in a conversation with Michael,

Michael: How many of you survived
Libby: 23 of us

Although there are only 5 remaining survivors the count directly after the crash was indeed 23 survivors and this has been confirmed in a podcast by producers damon lindelof and carlton cuse

Let's set it to 23 then, and leave it there. Val42 03:38, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

• its 22, goodwin wasnt on the plane

Since "23" has confirmation from a podcast from the producers, it is better supported and should stay. Val42 05:04, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

• Tail: (22) Libby states, in "Everybody Hates Hugo", that 23 people from the tail section survived the crash. However, according to Lost Writers' Assistant Matt Ragghianti [5], Libby mistakenly included Goodwin in this tally. As Supervising Producer Javier Grillo-Marxuach states, "Goodwin was not exposed as an other until weeks into the tailies' sojourn in the island, so more likely than not his [Goodwin's] inclusion into the head count became accepted by mere rote." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by American champagne (talk • contribs) 08:36, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Which podcast

The mystery section refers to a podcast revelation, but not which of them actually speaks to the plane crash meanings.

[edit] Good source for article

Just came across an interesting article from the Honolulu Star Bulletin from last year, which details history of the airplane used as Lost's Oceanic 815 (a Lockheed L-1011, as guessed above) formerly used by Delta, and stored in the Mojave. Apparently, the previous owner, Thompson Aviation, sold it to ABC for $200,000 (a nice mark-up from the $50,000 they paid!) The broker for the deal claimed that rather than being cut apart, it might have been made flight-worthy and flown to Hawaii for less than the transport charges.

See: http://starbulletin.com/2005/06/14/features/story1.html

—Leflyman^Talk 21:58, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vincent

Should Walts dog be mentioned somewhere? I suppose he counts as a passenger and he's been in loads of the episodes. You never know, he might be the key to the whole mystery... wouldn't we look silly if we hadn't included him then! Icey 20:27, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, I've added Vincent to the article in The Flight section. Icey 16:43, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Diary Revelations

The final diary entry for Season 2 on the ABC website reveals that the name of the 2nd season diary-keeper is Chris Dobson, who was sitting on the aisle. He and his brother Steve were on the plane flying back from a holidy in Australia. Steve died in the crash, crushed by the ceiling collapsing on him[1]. The diary also confirms that the crash happened on 22 September 2004. --Werthead 22:44, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Error or sabotage?

Is there any info on the net if the serious instrument failures that caused the plane to fly towards the location of the island? I didn't think that kind of instrument failures was possible on a modern plane. If it was a sabotage and planned, the part when the plane was ripped apart and crashed was definitly not a part of the plan.Rhynchosaur 19:36, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

The "reveal" of the second season finale was that the plane suffered from a massive electromagnetic pulse (EMP). --Leflyman^Talk 21:48, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not talking about what happened over the island, I'm talking about what happened hours before that. Rhynchosaur 22:36, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Crash Infobox

Currently, the Air Crash infobox is used on this page. Nearly none of the information in the infobox is correct, or definitive. The registration and the aircraft type provided are incorrect. (The aircraft was a L-1011, not a 777. The registration provided is of a DeHaviland prop aircraft, not an airliner of any type) Of the information provided, all of the numbers are given in vauge terms, or stated as unknown. And, to sum it all up, this air crash never took place. I would like to take votes for either "keep" or "remove" of the AirCrash infobox on this page. --KPWM_Spotter 21:08, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Remove as per above stated reasons. --KPWM_Spotter 21:08, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Keep The errors in the infobox have been corrected (someone changed the aircraft reg. and type for an unknown reason). Anyways, I think it deserves to stay. Check-Six 22:28, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Remove as the crash is fictional. ericg ✈ 06:19, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Keep as per Check-Six 64.221.254.80 14:41, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

note: This is this person's first edit. Jtrost (^T | C | _#) 15:13, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Remove not enough verifiable information is known for this template to be useful. Jtrost (^T | C | _#) 15:12, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Remove per Jtrost's remarks. -- PKtm 15:49, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Deletion

This page is a waste of space. All of the information on this page is either somewhere else on Wikipedia or not notable enough to support an article. --theDemonHog 17:28, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Crash

Could we have an image of the plane breaking apart from "A Tale of Two Cities"? They have the image on Lostpedia- JustPhil 01:22, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Oceanic website

An ip just added a section on the website. I believe that information retrieved from other Lost semi-affiliated sites were deleted since they were not verifiable. The same may be the case here. Either way, I put the tag for in universe since the IP editor flourished the writing so that it seem that Michael and Walt really are real people that somehow got a message on a website. Gdo01 03:48, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

That whole section should be deleted as pure fancruft. -- PKtm 04:35, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

This section is totally useless. The next section mentions the site and that it contains easter eggs. I'm deleting it (or re-deleting it, as the case may be). Natalie 05:34, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Coincidence?

Is this plane crash just a coincidence, or did some mysterious magical force purposely jacked the plane? Im real curious. Can someone add that to the article? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.135.224.215 (talk) 18:38, 6 December 2006 (UTC).

If you saw the finale of the second season, and read this from the article "During the season 2 finale, Desmond Hume surmises that the electromagnetic field built up by not "pushing the button" was to blame for the plane crash, as, according to the computer log printouts from The Pearl, the "system failure" happened on September 22, 2004, the date on which the crash took place (also the date of the Lost series premiere)", you would know its in there already. The system failure looks like it was magnetic and basically pulled the plane apart nothing mystical or magical. Gdo01 18:41, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Wow, I just wrote this a few seconds ago and you just replied back like 5 seconds later!

[edit] Trivia

Is there any need for the mention of the unrealistic nature of the breakup of the plane? I mean, one of the fundamental premises of the series is the impossible way so many people survived a catastrophic aeroplane crash, mostly without so much as a mark on them. This clearly wasn't a normal plane crash operating within the parameters that would normally dictate how a crashing plane behaves. It then seems silly to speculate on the realism of the way the plane broke up in mid-air. JMWhite 03:54, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

There should be no speculation, period. Without a citation, this speculation should be removed. Val42 19:23, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Christian Shephard's body?

The article currently reads "The body of Dr. Christian Shephard was in the hold of the plane...", but nowhere is it clearly stated that his body was actually loaded in. In an early Season 1 episode, which features Jack Shephard's flashbacks, the coffin is empty (which can be clearly seen after Jack smashes the lid in pieces in a fit of desperation). In a flashback, Jack can be seen on the luggage counter of Sydney airport trying to arrange his father's body to be transported on the flight 815, but apparently to no avail(?). He also mentions that a hearse is waiting for the coffin at LAX and he will bury his father as soon as they arrive to US - hence question: could it be that the airline personnel would do something like load the aircraft with empty coffin (and dispose of the body in Australia), knowing that the coffin would be buried instantly after arrival, all this in the name of easing the pain of a grieving relative (Jack)? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.245.188.185 (talk) 22:21, 10 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Hurley and Walt/Michael

20G - Hugo Reyes (also purchased a ticket for the adjacent seat)
34A/B - Michael Dawson and Walt Lloyd

That can't be right. In the season one finale, Hurley walks past Walt and gives him a thumbs-up. He walks PAST them to get to his seat, so either one or both of those are wrong. Morhange 02:49, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Seat Numbers?

- If Jack really has 23A like he says in Exodus (Part 1) than Charlie can't have 29C. Between Jack and Charlie there are 3 rows. So Charlie must have 27C.

- Harold Wollstein can't have 23C because than he would sit between Jack and Rose.

- Hurley can't have 20G becuase in Exodus (Part 3) you can see him walk past the seat numbers 20, 21 and 22. Which can't be correct either because in front of Jack there is only one row and then a wall. If Jack has 23A the row in front of him must be 22. But when Hurley walks through the plane the first row behind the wall is 20. So this must be wrong or the walls are not symmetric.

Also the Oceanic Air seating chart (that is linked) can't be correct. In the middle section it there are only 3 seats shown. In Exodus (Part 3) when Sayid is shown in the plane there are 2 free seats between him and the person on the left of him. So ther must be a section/s with 4 seats.

[edit] Body count

Could we have a body count list like the one on The Others page? And how many survivors are left? Here's a (probably) incomplete list from the top of my head in no particular order: Boone, Shannon, Ana Lucia, Eko, Libby, Nikki, Paulo, Steve/Scott (whoever Ethan killed), woman who drowned, Arzt, the US Marshal, the man killed by Goodwin. Have I missed anyone? - LeonWhite 09:22, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

• Gary Troup (sucked into turbine)
• Pilot (killed by Monster)
• Edward Mars (killed by Jack (euthanasia))
• Joanna (woman who drowned)
• Scott (killed by Ethan
• Boone (from the Beechcraft)
• Arzt (blew up)
• Shannon (shot by Ana-Lucia)
• Nikki (buried alive)
• Paulo (buried alive)
• Tail-ender (died of injuries)
• Tail-ender (died of injuries)
• Tail-ender (died of injuries)
• Donald (died of injuries)
• Nathan (killed by Goodwin)
• Ana-Lucia (killed by Michael)
• Libby (killed by Michael)
• Eko (killed by Monster)

So 72 - 18 = 54 currently remaining. Squidward2602 21:07, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

The 72 includes Aaron and the otherized tail-enders, does it not? - LeonWhite 22:39, 5 April 2007 (UTC)