Talk:Obsessive-compulsive disorder

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[edit] thought

User:Anthony cfc added the following text:

The most common "thought" symptom is young men experiencing homosexual thoughts and quickly masterbating, etc..., to reverse the thought. Many experts now link it with many other mental illesses, as described in this article.

This sounds rather inappropriate and trollish, hence I removed it for now. Would you mind providing any sources that agree with you? -- intgr 09:50, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Define "serious"

"One serious symptom which stems from this is "counting" your steps, e.g. you must take twelve steps to the car in the morning."

This symptom does not seem to differ in severity from the other ones listed, so why is it given a special emphasis? Monkeyfinger 06:52, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

I believe this is a more common symptom than others, and in fact one of the questions many doctors ask while making a diagnosis. FireWeed 01:47, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Deletion of celebrity list

The list of celebs who have OCD seems very speculative. As suggested in discussion below, it should probably be purged, and names only added back in if a source/reference exists.

No particular objection was raised below, so unless someone gives reason to the contrary, I propose the list be removed in a couple of days.--Starwed 01:37, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

I went ahead and deleted most of the list. The three that were left have OCD mentioned in their own wikipedia article, so I left them. Anyone adding to the list should provide some source for the info. --Starwed 23:31, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

I guess whoever keeps on reverting the list is probably just a troll, but in case they're not, they should read Wikipedia:Verifiability.

David Beckham is no longer England captain, so I shall change this appropriately.--86.3.172.237 14:04, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

The list should be moved here: [[1]] Flyerhell 20:21, 25 January 2006 (UTC)


Here's a useful public domain booklet; material from this can be freely copied into the article [2] Enchanter

Link currently dead, alas boffy_b 22:24, 2005 May 17 (UTC)
Dead, but the content is still available at the Internet Archive. Jareha 22:00:57, 2005-08-25 (UTC)

The article linked to by extinction is irrelevant. I don't know what to change it to, as there is no article about the indented meaning of the word "extinction". However, extinction (disambiguation) mentions it. —Daniel Brockman 21:14, May 5, 2004 (UTC)

I don't know who at Wikipedia decided that titles of books, films, etc., should take italics rather than quotation marks, but it's an atrocious decision. Italics might be the way it's done in freshman college essays, but it's not the way it's done in the real world. Check the stylebook of most any contemporary publication; quotes are used for titles.

The italics look amateur. (Which I suppose is what Wikipedia legitimately is, when it comes down to it.)

For what it's worth, I checked the periodicals that are currently lying in heaps all over my house. Quotation marks: The New York Times, The New Yorker, The San Francisco Chronicle. Italics: The New York Review of Books, The Nation, The Comics Journal, The San Francisco Bay Guardian, Poets & Writers Magazine, Nurse Week. I think there's more diversity in "the real world" than you're suggesting - though I do speak as an amateur. ←Hob 03:47, 2004 Oct 29 (UTC)

Then again, the OCD page is probably the last place I want to be starting a nitpicky argument about details.

HA! Thanks for that. ←Hob 03:47, 2004 Oct 29 (UTC)

For what its worth, Hob, its the Harvard Standard, and I have rarely come accross any other way of cited sources in any of the journal articles i have read throughout my career.--81.151.234.88 23:40, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

The way my high school English teacher taught me, titles of "full-length" works like books, plays, albums, and movies are supposed to be italicized, while titles of "short" things like short stories, songs, and magazine articles are to be placed in quotes. The CITE tag in HTML, intended for use with titles, is generally rendered in italics. -- Dan -- 03:30, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Picky Picky. Does it really matter on a free-based online encyclopedia that anyone (well, almost anyone) can edit what is italic and what is not? --Admiral Roo 10:52, Jun 23, 2005 (UTC)
The AP style uses quotations over italics (italics or underlining is the correct way to denote longer works) only because "type face cannot be sent through AP computers." That's from The Associated Press Stylebook, 2004 edition.

[edit] Minor quibble

"An estimated two to three percent of the population is thought to have OCD or display OCD-like symptoms."

The population of where? I assume it's either the US or the entire world, more likely the former, but it's not exactly clear. TheJames 00:54, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I'd think it's the U.S. From the statistics listed they may be referencing the 1983 National Institutes of Health survey.
Minor quibbles are OK on the OCD entry. Semolina Pilchard

"Most people who suffer from Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, usually only suffer from that of obsessions or that of compulsions. It is rare that they would develop both that of obsessions and compulsions." Ltdoyle

This statement is not true. Most people who suffer from OCD suffer from both obsessions and compulsions. To have either alone is extremely rare. Often, mental compulsions are confused with obsessions. See Edna Foa's work for clarification Bob Falk

While the quoted statement is definitely untrue, I think for many people the concept of "mental compulsion" is not very useful. Mental compulsions can become so entangled with obsessions that it becomes difficult to distinguish between the two. People with pure-O also almost always complain about their obsessions rather than their compulsions, and I would think for something to be considered a compulsion you would at least have to be aware of its presence and that it's unreasonable. Just trying to stop thinking about something is not unreasonable when it's extremely distressing and occupies hours of your day. --Karl

I think that it is important for people to know that Obsessive Compulsive disorder is a very serious illness, even though it only affects three percent of the population, Obsessions and Compulsions are so powering that they can run ones life. An example of a compulsion could be the urge to pick at ones hair, where an obsession could be the thought that you have killed someone, even though you really havent. Ltdoyle

It is serious. I don't suffer from it, but I have seen people with it. Thank you for your comment, and I hope the world will one day stop persecuting (sp?) ppl with a mental illness. Though developed countries are better at tolerating us then others are.  ;)

Actually, it is not rare to have obsessions alone, a lot of people have pure-O, although I do not know the exact percentage. You can either have obsessions & compulsions, or obsessions alone, and not just compulsions alone. Why would someone have a compulsion to do something if they do not have an obsession with it. -RockClimber15

[edit] List of Celebrities

I am submitting what seems to be a more reasonable list. The shortened list someone put up has gone overboard.

The problem is that it isn't "reasonable" if it contains even a few names which are incorrect. Furthermore, I checked a couple of the first few famous names on the list, and couldn't find any other reference for them having OCD. I'll post the list in the talk page , but the article should contain only material which has at least some basis in fact. ^_^ Frankly I don't really care enough to research each individual to see if they do or do not have OCD. That doesn't mean I shouldn't take the couple of seconds to prevent incorrect information from staying on wikipedia. Furthermore, the list should only contain people who have OCD, not just those who have mentioned they are "germ freaks" or whatever... --Starwed 10:29, 3 January 2006 (UTC)


Here is a list of what appeared on the page, and which I have again removed. This list can be thrashed out here, but only those with some source should actually appear in the article itself. Note that, as the article states, "OCD should also be distinguished from the similarly named but notably different obsessive-compulsive personality disorder." I've gone ahead and done google searches for the first few. Many seem incorrect/completely undocumented, and in either case they're not suited for Wikipedia. Please don't just add the whole list back in.--Starwed 10:29, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

I think this list is highly questionable. I researched a few names just now and the links to OCD are questionable. Just because Donald Trump says he is a "germ freak" doesn't mean he has OCD. Cameron Diaz reportedly opens doors with her elbows - this is stronger evidence but the reference was 2nd hand at best. IMHO Wikipedia should not list someone as having OCD unless they have been diagnosed and admitted it in public. Should the list be removed entirely with names only being added back in when their OCD is verified? Robertbrockway 07:50, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)


I agree completely. The list is very misleading.

Thirded. The list is misleading. However, I do know for a fact that both Howie Mandel and Marc Summers do in fact have OCD. At one time (and maybe still is) Marc Summers was pretty active in trying to support people with OCD. I think he used to speak publicly to raise OCD awareness. I believe that Howard Stern has also suffered from OCD at one time or another Flyerhell 09:22, 16 November 2005 (UTC)


It is almost like the list of celebrities with breast implants. Do we have sources for this apparently growing list? --None-of-the-Above 03:12, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

As per my earlier comments, I think the list of celebrity OCD suffers is highly suspect. I find it odd, for example, that the articles on Cameron Diaz or Donald Trump would not mention the disease if they indeed admit to having it. If we don't have objective evidence such as an admission or a (possibly unethical) disclosure by a medical doctor we have no business claiming they have OCD. Robertbrockway 03:34, 15 November 2005 (UTC)
It seems like the entire list should be deleted, and celebreties only added to it if they can be verified as having the condition. --Starwed 10:17, 6 December 2005 (UTC)



Some people listed, as well as fictional people listed under 'References in Film and Literature', would be more accurately describes as Obsessive-compulsive personality disorder, which is different (eg. Bree -Marcia Cross- on Desperate Housewives. And I agree that the list needs to be shortened, with maybe a little information being added next to the names of those who are left. - 07:09, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

Shouldn't there be a separate list for people who where dead before OCD was even documented? Darwin, Proust, Florence Nightingale and so on... Pascal.Tesson 15:04, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References in films and literature

To the anon IP, can you say something about why you're removing this list? If you feel there are mistakes in it, perhaps you could edit it rather than deleting it entirely. SlimVirgin (talk) 22:02, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

Just from reading this article, it seems that some of the references fall more closely under OCPD than OCD, such as the example from Vertigo. (Just going by the description here, since I haven't read the movie.) --Starwed 10:19, 6 December 2005 (UTC)

The Monica Geller reference needs to be completed. Also, another example is the X-Files Episode Bad Blood,which depicts a vampire afflicted with the need to pick up something scattered on the floor by Mulder. --Silverhand 15:26, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I removed the Monica Geller reference. It looked stupid just leaving it blank like that. Just to keep it easily accessible this was the sentence: "*From the TV series "Friends" Monica Geller" Flyerhell 20:59, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Didn't someone have OCD in Macbeth as well? I kind of remember someone washing their hands obsessively?

  • Yes, I remember the line "Out out, damn spot" or something to that effect. Perhaps Macbeth should be added to the list? brabblebrex 02:17, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Flyerhell 20:59, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

  • Macbeth and his wife Lady Macbeth have murdered the King and others. Both have fears of being found out, and Lady Macbeth appears to suffer from OCD. The following is from Act V, Scene i: A Doctor and Gentlewoman or sevant of Lady Macbeth secretly watch Lady Macbeth as she does her ritual handwashing, talking to herself the while:
 DOCTOR. What is it she does now? Look how she rubs her hands.
 GENTLEWOMAN. It is an accustomed action with her, to seem thus
   washing her hands. I have known her continue in this a
   quarter of an hour.
 LADY MACBETH. Yet here's a spot.
 DOCTOR. Hark, she speaks! I will set down what comes from her,
   to satisfy my remembrance the more strongly.
 LADY MACBETH. Out, damned spot! Out, I say!--One: two: why then
   'tis time to do't. Hell is murky. Fie, my lord, fie! A soldier,
   and afeard? What need we fear who knows it, when none can call
   our power to account? Yet who would have thought the old man to
   have had so much blood in him? 
 DOCTOR. Do you mark that?
 LADY MACBETH. The Thane of Fife had a wife; where is she now?
   What, will these hands ne'er be clean? No more o' that, my lord,
   no more o' that. You mar all with this starting.
 DOCTOR. Go to, go to; you have known what you should not.
 GENTLEWOMAN. She has spoke what she should not, I am sure of
   that. Heaven knows what she has known.
 LADY MACBETH. Here's the smell of the blood still. All the
   perfumes of Arabia will not sweeten this little hand. Oh, oh, oh!
 DOCTOR. What a sigh is there! The heart is sorely charged.
 GENTLEWOMAN. I would not have such a heart in my bosom for the
   dignity of the whole body.
 DOCTOR. Well, well, well--
 GENTLEWOMAN. Pray God it be, sir.
 DOCTOR. This disease is beyond my practice. Yet I have known
   those which have walked in their sleep who have died holily in
   their beds.
 LADY MACBETH. Wash your hands, put on your nightgown, look not
   so pale. I tell you yet again, Banquo's buried; he cannot come
   out on's grave. 
 DOCTOR. Even so?
 LADY MACBETH. To bed, to bed; there's knocking at the gate.
   Come, come, come, come, give me your hand.What's done cannot be
   undone.To bed, to bed, to bed.  [Exit.
 DOCTOR. Will she go now to bed?
 GENTLEWOMAN. Directly.
 DOCTOR. Foul whisperings are abroad. Unnatural deeds
   Do breed unnatural troubles; infected minds
   To their deaf pillows will discharge their secrets.
   More needs she the divine than the physician.
   God, God, forgive us all! Look after her;
   Remove from her the means of all annoyance,
   And still keep eyes upon her. So good night.
   My mind she has mated and amazed my sight.
   I think, but dare not speak.
 GENTLEWOMAN. Good night, good doctor.  [Exeunt.

Further, the idea that the Blackadder actors have OCD is sheer barking madness. Remove it!

[edit] As Good As It Gets

Why does info about As Good As It Gets say something like OCD is portrayed in a sterotypical way in this movie? I don't think that this movie really was that much worse than other movies in its portrayal of OCD and a lot of aspects of this movie show the true suffering of someone with OCD....the scene where Melvin keeps locking and unlocking the door come to mind. You also see Melvin burning his hands in the beginning of the movie as well. Flyerhell 09:26, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Expansions

I think it would be nice if some aspects of this article were expanded. Specifically, the history of OCD (Anal fixation from Freud????) and better treatment details (Exposure and Response prevention). Depression tends to be highly comorbid with OCD as well (Helpless-hopeless hypothosis), it would be nice if this were mentioned. Done. The part about opiates was interesting but it would be nice if it were expanded...and perhaps a reason could be offered for the treatment effects of opiates. I have read some recent research positing that the comorbidity rate of OCD with drug addiction is VERY high, perhaps because drug addiction can be viewed as a type of compulsive behavior? Done. I also take issue with this sentence: "People who suffer with OCPD tend to derive pleasure from their obsessions or compulsions. Those with OCD do not derive pleasure but are ridden with anxiety. This is a significant difference between these disorders." While people with OCD are in fact filled with anxiety, it is important to note that the compulsion RELIEVES this anxiety (temporarily)....and while the compulsions are distressing to individuals with OCD, it is important to note that since these compulsions are anxiety-relieving, the OCD sufferer may actually enjoy the compulsion to a point? Just something to keep in mind. I can make the edits, but I wanted to get some feedback on them before I do so. Flyerhell 09:30, 16 November 2005 (UTC) Revised: Flyerhell 09:42, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] References

I scanned for a few of the references throughout the article but I could not find any citations of them. If these are not actually cited in the article, shouldn't they be under "further reading"? I will also add the reference from the citation that I put into the article last week. Done. I also attempted to clean up the reference section, it appears that 2 or 3 different types of styles were used to cite references. I think that we should agree on one style. I would recommend APA (that is what I used) as this is a psych article. Let me know your thoughts. Flyerhell 09:11, 23 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] request

Obsessive-compulsives, please join the Recent Changes patrol and monitor Wikipedia for vandalism. Your help is definitely necessary. Don't forget to eat and sleep, however. And make sure you are earning enough cash to pay for basic necessities. Thanks. -MPD 00:26, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Otay Buttweet. --DanielCD 22:26, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

I doubt you ment it but some of those comments such as "Don't forget to eat or sleep however" could potentially be taken as offensive to OCD sufferers.Deathawk 04:56, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

I thought it was funny, and I am an OCD sufferer... However I have been dealing with the disorder for almost 7 years now and I am currently in control of it. I did lose almost 20 lbs when I was "at my worst", because I would be so consumed with other thoughts I really DID forget to eat and sleep... yet comic relief is good sometimes and helps people put things into perspective. -- Kat

[edit] Neuropsychiatry

The NeuroPsychiatry section is incredibly hard to read, at first it list the receptor but then it lists them again in some sort of sequence that is just incredibly disoriented, I don't object to this section but I think we should make it more readable. Deathawk 04:53, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Not Xenocide That Dealt With OCD Characters

In the section OCD in Literature and Fiction, the article claims that the novel Xenocide by Orson Scott Card features a planet where people with OCD are revered as religious figures. It was actually Children of the Mind, Xenocide's sequel, that featured this planet- it was the character Wang-Mu that most heavily presented OCD in the novel (she would sometimes have to trace wood grains).

I've changed the article accordingly. Mouseclicker 02:26, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Untrue. It was indeed Xenocide that featured the "godspoken" from Path. Qing-jao was the one who traced wood grains.Sanjayhari 22:17, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] external links

I am interested in adding an external link to our website (the OCD Center of Los Angeles at www.ocdla.com) from the Wikipedia page of OCD. I have added the site 2-3 times, but it has been removed each time. I wrote an email to Wikipedia and the person who responded suggested I write to the discussion section of the OCD page.

Our site contains over 20 pages of information about OCD and related OC Spectrum Disorders. The site includes an OCD test, in-depth descriptions of OCD and Obsessional OCD, information on the appropriate treatment of the disorder, and a list of links to over 75 OCD-related sites across the world. In fact, many of the sites listed in the external links section of the Wikipedia OCD page link to our site, and one actually uses our OCD test.

I realize that one could say that our site is a commercial site, but so are a number of the current external links on the OCD page. While our site is for our clinic, it is also meant to be a resource for those seeking expert information on OCD and its treatment. I look forward to comments. Thank you.

Perhaps you could link the specific pages that have relevant information. The front page of the clinic is probably not best; that will get removed as it looks like advertising and doesn't appear completely relevant (as it's a clinic page). But particular pages might work. You might even find some uncited material in the article body and use the information on your informative pages as a reference. Keep in mind this would also be open for someone to challenge the clinic website as an authority; it would be much better if you could refer on your pages cited the author, and somewhere on the site the author's credentials.
In short: I think an article on a webpage written by a practicing clinician in this field would be an adequate reference. It could only really be challenged if someone found research that said otherwise, but this is not likely as much of this information is quite general. I hope this helps, and please feel free to ask further questions. Thanks, and have a wonderful day. --DanielCD 02:51, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
Also, if there are sites on the page that you feel are inappropriate, feel free to list them here and challenge them. I'll look and see if there's anything that neets attention in this regard. Thank you for bringing it up. --DanielCD 02:56, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
"bing"...poof...

Daniel - Thank you for your comments. I see what you mean about the home page. I would like to suggest you take a look at three of the pages on our site which I believe offer in-depth information related to the subject of Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder.

They are as follows:

The page which describes "OCD" at at http://www.ocdla.com/whatisOCD.html

The page which describes "Obsessional OCD" at http://www.ocdla.com/obsessionalOCD.html

The page which describes "Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy for OCD" at http://www.ocdla.com/cognitivebehavioraltherapy.html

I believe these pages provide information which would be of benefit to visitors to the OCD page of Wikipedia. These pages were written by myself, and I am a practicing clinician who specializes in Cognitive-Behavioral Therapy for OCD. I look forward to your comments.

Thanks for responding again. I'll look at it when I get a moment. Right now, I wish I had six hands... --DanielCD 23:59, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
Wow, lots going on. I added one link, so we'll see how it goes. --DanielCD 03:36, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jessica Alba (list of celebrities)

Jessica Alba said she had OCD as a child. So she isn't a sufferer anymore. I think it would be appropriate to remove her name from the list on the article. -- Porcher 17:27, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree. --DanielCD 17:48, 8 February 2006 (UTC)


In case it hasn't already been done, Joey Ramone's OCD can be verified by statements made by his mother and brother in the film End of the Century: The Story of the Ramones. Also, please reconsider the "Diane Chambers" and Vertigo; they sound more like either OCPD, or minor, non-clinical compulsive tendencies, than true OCD. Illusi0nist 03:13, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Contradiction?

Most OCD sufferers are aware that such thoughts and behavior are not rational, but feel bound to comply with them to fend off fears of panic or dread.

I know that this is what is said about the condition, had their been not aware of, probably their cases will include delusions and psychosis. But, this bothers me, if they are aware that the fear, for example of contamination, is not real, why would they fear dead? If you know that this thought of contamination killing you is not real, why would you fear of dying? This is problematic, since it is true that they fear of being contaminated and dying from this, but is this claim of them knowing that it is not rational not unclear? I think the thing here is that psychiatrists have tried to differenciate OCD with psychotic disorders such as schizophrenia, and this knowledge that the belief does not make sense is important but I believe this sentence is problematic, it seems to be contradictory. Fad (ix) 02:04, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

You need to be a OCD sufferer to understand.

You know the compulsions will not do anything, but you do them just in case. I think OCD can relate to an extreme self-defence of the human organism.

For pure obsessive people, we know we will never act on the thoughts but there's always doubt. Matt 00:28, 25 March 2006

Thanks for the answer, this was what I also understood, the 'in case it is true.' But the sentence still seems contradictory, reality testing is intact besides the thing that start the obsessions and compulsions much like a phobia. Isen't this the cases? Fad (ix) 16:56, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, reality testing is intact. I wouldn't say that it is completely when the actual affected individual has no knowledge of his condition though. When you have knowledge on the OCD subject, you know ie: the bad thoughts are caused by a chemical imbalance and I will never act on them. But like I said earlier, when you have compulsions, even if you have knowledge of the subject and you know that doing ie: checking 20 times if all doors are locked will not help nor prevent something, your brain still has a temptation to do it. Because it feels ironically GOOD after doing them. When you are not on medicamentation, I would say that it's better to check the door 20 times which takes about 5 minutes than think about 3 hours in bed. Matt 22:27, 26 March 2006

As someone with OCD I would say that the sentence "Most OCD sufferers are aware that such thoughts and behavior are not rational, but feel bound to comply with them to fend off fears of panic or dread." is absoutely true even if it seems illogical. People with OCD know their obsessions are irrational but we can't stop them. I think the best way to describe this to a person without OCD is to think of someone who is addicted to ciggerettes or alcohol or some other kind of substance. The addict knows their habit is irrational but they feel like they cannot stop. However, I would say following the compulsions doesn't really feel good just neutral that the obsession is gone... And following hte compulsions sometimes maekes the obessions come back even stronger and someone with OCD would feel even more compelled to do even more compulsions.


I.e. if it made sense, it wouldn't be a disorder.


The setence is perfect. Describes OCD perfectly. 134.53.168.203 04:29, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


I highly recommend the book The Mind & the Brain - Neuroplasticity and the Power of Mental Force by J. Swartz. It examines the neural and biological issues, as well as the types of "training" to train OCD sufferers to learn how to "know" when a thought/belief that they are having is actually a symptom of a disease, and not one of thier own thoughts. It is a fascinating and worthwhile book if you are interested in brain neurology and OCD. --66.91.213.98 23:33, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Florence Nightingale

I propose changing the page to:

or

According to the Wikipedia page on her she suffered from the bipolar disorder. Not OCD. A quick google search brought up different sources... some saying she suffered from bipolar disorder (1) others saying she suffered from Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. (2) This would consitute adding a remark stating that the claim is disputed. Especially because this is a historic person and there is no first-hand/contemporary diagnosis. The claim is based on historic evidence of the symptoms she showed. Image:user.gif Thehardwareman T C E 07:23, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I am not aware of any credible evidence that Florence Nightingale had OCD. Her name should be removed from the list here, as speculation. [3] Sandy 10:55, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citation for vitamin claim

"Studies have also been done that show nutrition deficiencies may also be a probable cause for OCD and other mental disorders. Certain vitamin and mineral supplements may aid in such disorders and provide the nutrients necessary for proper mental functioning."

To be sure, nutrition is helpful.

And to make this point even more effective, there should be some evidence to back it up. Otherwise we're in the realm of ritalindeath.com.

I have done a Medline PubMed search for medical literature on Vitamin Deficiency AND OCD and Nutritional Deficiency AND OCD. Only one abstract address nutritional deficiency in OCD and it speculates that the finding of abnormal low Vitamin b12 in OCD could be an effect of OCD or a cause. Google search was not very fruitful either though I did not spend as much time on the Google search. I recommend the statment above: "Studies have also been done that show nutrition deficiencies may also be a probable cause for OCD and other mental disorders. Certain vitamin and mineral supplements may aid in such disorders and provide the nutrients necessary for proper mental functioning." be deleted.Psychofarm 18:50, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The irony

Ha! an encyclopedia entry on OCD being so long because so many of the people editing it HAVE OCD. Is that Irony? Actually, it's probably the opposite. Anyway, maybe the page should have a special thanks to people with OCD for making Wikipedia possible in the first place!

You're saying "irony", as if implying that it was a bad thing. -- intgr 07:42, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Do I have OCD?

I don't know but I've wondered for years if I do. Basically, both sides of my body have to be equal, for example, if I touch my right hand on something, I then have to touch my left hand on it in the same way, and it feels very irritating if I don't do it. Also, when I'm walking, say from room to room, I have to make an even number of steps in each room and I have to count my steps (in groups of 4) in my head while I'm walking. I'm 26 now and I've done it since I was about 13 or 14. Although at times it doesn't affect me at all. Does this sound like OCD? Sweetie Petie 23:31, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Although I'm not a professional, from these indications I would say that yes, you do certainly have OCD. I have to do a lot of things that one could call ritualistic and I am confident that I definitely have OCD, though I have not been diagnosed. There are those rare exceptions when I am not bound by these tendencies but most of the time I feel I have to do my "routines," etc. -- Huysmantalk| contribs 01:55, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
A lot of the time I don't think I'm affected but then again I may not realise I'm doing it. I know when I was in my teens I was so annoyed at the counting thing that I tried and tried to stop and I didn't do it for quite some time but it came back and I just live with it! Sweetie Petie 11:30, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Everyone has ritualistic tendencies and it is quite common to have a need for balance when it comes to touching or walking. That tendency alone does not constitute the diagnosis of obsessive compulsive disorder. One must also have obsessive thoughts which are usually scary and disturbing and of course then produce anxiety and rumination symptoms. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.3.43.119 (talk) 01:51, 8 January 2007 (UTC).

I used to have to do that when I was about 6 or so. Like thingymabob previously stated, everyone has ritualistic tendencies, like avoiding the cracks on a pavement for good luck etc. If these rituals intrude in your life, then you could be diagnosed with OCD. But I wouldn't think it's worth seeing a psyciatrist unless you really feel as though you're "suffering" from it. For me, it's as though there's "something else" inside me deliberatley trying to piss me off, telling me if I touch certain people I want to have sex with them etc. So, ask yourself, are your obsessions really that inconvinient? SubtleV

[edit] The Celebrity List again

I'm giving this a seperate section so it will hopefully stand out more.

Some good work has gone on recently (a big improvement) but we are still listing people without verifying the facts. No one should be listed as suffering from a mental illness on WP without a citation or preferably a self admission. It could be considered slanderous.

I'm going to do what I should have done a long time ago. I'm going to go through and remove references to any celebrity that doesn't have a citation. Time permitting I'm going to research them to see if I can find an admission of OCD. Claiming people have OCD without proof is a big deal. Robert Brockway 07:37, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

As an added reminder of why we need citations please see Wikipedia:Verifiability. Robert Brockway 07:42, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I agree. This seems to be an ongoing problem. I have removed all the remaining unsourced names, and placed them in a section below. I apologize for the removal of some which are probably legitimate additions. However, it is better to not have someone who suffers from OCD than to falsely claim that they do. In fact, it is probably a good idea to double check even the sourced entries. I have indicated in the comment for the section that any unsourced additions will be reverted...if they are reasonable, they can be added to the list below. As sources are found, they can be removed from the list below, and added to the article.--GregRM 22:04, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
PS...I also realize that some entries, like Jessica Alba, Charles Darwin, and Florence Nightengale have been discussed in preceding discussion. However, there did not seem to be a clear consensus in my brief reading of these discussions, so I removed them. They can be readded to the article with appropriate sources/qualifiers/consensus.--GregRM 22:09, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
I just realized that there did not seem to be any debate about Charles Darwin as I had originally thought. A source was provided in the older list. I will leave it up to the other editors here to decide if the source is trustworthy. (Note that it also suggests Florence Nightengale had OCD, which has been previously questioned and discussed on this page...see Talk:Obsessive-compulsive disorder#Florence Nightingale).--GregRM 22:30, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unsourced famous potential OCD sufferers

This list contains people who have been added to Obsessive-compulsive disorder#Famous/celebrity OCD sufferers without a source. They can be removed from this list and placed in the article if accompanied by at least one valid source. Multiple sources are preferable, especially in ambiguous cases. Discussion on each person can be placed below their name.

See also: Talk:Obsessive-compulsive disorder#List of celebrities


[edit] Discussion for individuals in main article

  • Joey Ramone, aka Joey Ramone, was an American vocalist and songwriter best known for his work in the legendary punk rock group The Ramones.
    • Joey mentions Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder in the lyrics of "Like a Drug I Never did Before" (the lyric itself is "demons swirling in an OCD pond"). He doesn't actually state that he has it in the song, but it is a very strong implication, especially because the lyrics of the song are in the first person. Coupled with the fact that it is relatively common knowledge of Ramones fans that he does in fact have it, is this a strong enough citation to re-include it in the article? Monkeyfinger 05:18, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
      • I found this site and some reviews of a documentary that discusses it (e.g. [4])--GregRM 14:32, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
  • David Sedaris, American writer
    • Although an Internet search seems to give a good number of sources suggestive of childhood dealings with symptoms, this interview seems to suggest that he does not suffer from OCD. It would be great if someone knows of any convincing references/sources that might help settle the issue.--GregRM 03:28, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
    • I distinctly remember an NPR interview where he discusses his OCD, will try to find. --George100 04:33, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
      • Perhaps you are referring to this? The interviewer mentions OCD (starting around time 15:30, I think).--GregRM 23:49, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Lady Macbeth had OCD?

I doubt this. She was simply trying to cleanse herself of the guilt she felt from killing the king. Notice that this behavior is never mentioned in any other place in the book. So unless any dissenter wishes to add her back on the list, Lady Macbeth is getting nixed. Sanjayhari 22:21, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree. I don't think Lady Macbeth had OCD. Her obsession about washing the (non-existent) blood from her hands isn't irrational. She was complicit in a murder! Her obsession is borne of her guilt.

[edit] The Vampire Connection

Does anyone have a theory on the connection between some mythic vampire behaviors and OCD? I have OCD, and I'm also of Eastern European descent. So I'm wondering if there's a connection there.

That comes from the beleif that if you throw rice at a vampires feet, they will have to count every grain before doing anything else. I don't really think that there is a connection, OCD has been found in people of all races.Wiz kid 02:04, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, I have never heard of anything about vampires and OCD. Have you got a link or source? Ebb 01:11, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Degrees of OCD

These articles often seem to be written by people who don't actually have the disorder. Most bothersome is the lack of an understanding that our human 'models and definitions' are really just simplifications of reality; the real picture is far murkier and more complex (for example, is a transgendered person male or female?). To claim that OCD and OCPD are totally unrelated is ridiculous. I have symptoms of both; for me they are related and I'll bet for other sufferers too.

Second, the orthodox way of over-defining qualifications may lead to some to exclude themselves. Like saying that 'I'm not gay because I don't dress up in women's clothes,' misunderstanding that not all symptoms need be present for one to suffer from OCD is important. I don't check the door 20 times, I just check once or twice. I count steps, try to avoid stepping on lines on sidewalks, but I don't worry about 'balancing' the right side with the left. I might spend hours on end about one subject but not another one. I do believe there is a degree, someone might be more OCD than others. The article needs to be re-written, disposing of the ironically OCPD point of view bias (everything is black or white, right or wrong) in favor of a more nuanced view.68.219.73.31 03:43, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Can someone please add a source to the assertion that OCD is not curable. Personally--as someone with OCD and virtually all the symptoms listed on this page--I think OCD is a deep-set mindset brought on by social trauma, and therefore theoretically curable with the correct therapy. Nullbit

A lot of behavioral issues, like what you described, can be "cured", but this article is about a medical condition. This isn't the place to start a debate on OCD, so.. I'm not sure what you are getting at. -- Ned Scott 07:02, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm not looking for a debate on OCD. I was asking if a source could be added to the statement that OCD is not curable. Nullbit
I see where you are going with this, so I've changed that part of the article to say this now: "There is no known cure for OCD, but it can be treated with anti-depressants." -- Ned Scott 05:56, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Thank you, that's an improvement. Could I suggest removing the "with anti-depressants" part? since anti-depressants are not the only accepted treatment. Nullbit
Maybe you should try the new treatment they were studying at the University of Arizona in Tucson, Arizona. They've been giving people with OCD treatments of psilocybin. The study shows that it "removes" the symptoms in patients anywhere from a few hours to a few days at a time. It's still in the research stages, but it may very well help some people. Check it out. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.98.210.226 (talk • contribs).
It just so happens that I live in Tucson, Arizona, so maybe I can help get some good info for the article here, locally. -- Ned Scott 01:06, 22 December 2006 (UTC)'

[edit] Referencing

Although most of the statements and sources in this article seem pretty reliable, the referencing is not done properly. In particular, there are no page references. I tried looking for the original author of the article, but it appears most of the work was done by an anon IP: [5] :( If you have added any references to the article please go back and add in the pages. I'm going to try to get a hold of some of the references mentioned here, but if I cannot find the exact pages the sources may be thrown out because of unverifiability. A good example of a well-referenced article is this. Sofeil 09:51, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

You should reconsider citing the Arizona study of halucinagens as a promising treatment. If you read the study it is a proposal with a very interesting premise but does not yet represent actual research. It is also extremely far fetched to assume that anyone will be getting medical treatment with these substances an any situation beyond research for several decades. 65.125.103.78 22:01, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 50% prevalence?

"An estimated 1 in 2 adolescents and adults are thought to have OCD." Half of people over 12 meet criteria for obsessive-compulsive disorder? Are you kidding me? I changed this to: "Community studies have placed the prevalence between 1 and 3%, although the prevalence of clinically recognized OCD is much lower, suggesting that many individuals with the disorder are unaccounted for clinically." and added a reference. 69.118.25.126 09:29, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reference Tag

I noticed the tag saying references should be more specific (ie. cite pages), being as this is a psychology related article, and that it cites sources according to APA format (which doesn't use page numbers), it seems that it is unlikely or even impossible for someone to scan these references and come up with page numbers. I propose removing this tag. Thoughts? Beatdown 08:21, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

The tag was added here [6], and then the comment above. I agree that most standard scientific (ie, footnoting or APA) reference formats don't require page numbers. There is still one quote that does not have a page number, however. Also, probably of more concern is the use of lectures and course textbooks rather than research articles. This article is also very frequently edited, so perhaps it has been cleaned up some since??

[edit] Repeat Information?

This whole section looks like reiterated info that's already in the intro.

“ Obsessions are thoughts and ideas that the sufferer cannot stop thinking about. Common OCD obsessions include fears of acquiring disease, getting hurt, or causing harm to someone. Obsessions are typically automatic, frequent, distressing, and difficult to control or put an end to....

....untreated OCD is often regarded as one of the most vexing and frustrating of the major anxiety disorders.

 ”

I'm not gonna edit it just in case it's necessary in someway. But someone should look at it. The Snake 08:08, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Does someone have OCD if...

...they tell you what to do all the time, even the simplest of tasks, chores or activities that are either trivial or a no-brainer, but find yourself being told how to do it as if you don't know what you are doing? And in many instances telling you what and how to do something when you are just about to do it yourself? If it's not OCD it's gotta be something, because not only is it annoying and (to me) insulting, it doesn't seem to me to be natural for a person to do things like this to others. Can someone please help me out here? This sort of stuff can drive people up the wall at times! NiceDoggie 17:04, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, this is just the talk page for the article about OCD, and not really a place to discuss OCD itself. You might want to check out some of the external links for places to ask these questions. -- Ned Scott 20:51, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Tell that to sweetie petie. They're allowed to discuss it but why is that other person not.

[edit] lol

This page's content plus the unusually huge number of edits to it is highly amusing. Jtrainor 03:45, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Neuropsychiatry Section

I'm new to Wikipedia editing so I don't know exactly what to do about it, but the way in which this entire section of the OCD article states conjectures about relationships between neurology and the disorder as matters of fact is not neutral or stylistically correct.

It also does not list any sources, besides for a quote. It talks about OCD and certain neurological receptors being strongly correlated, which is evidently based on scientific studies, but no source is given. Specific statments about the relationships between neuropsychiatry and OCD as proven matters of scientific fact are probably inaccurate anyway. The section should either be overhauled and cited or deleted. (Tperson 06:38, 13 February 2007 (UTC))

A quick tip for these kinds of situations, you can add {{fact}} to any unsourced statement that needs one. Anything unsourced is open to being removed at any time by any editor, per WP:V, so feel free to be bold. -- Ned Scott 07:26, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] memantine

Can someone please explain why an NMDA ANAGONIST may be a useful drug in treating OCD when it just said that the disorder's severity was negatively correlated with the activity of the NMDA receptor. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Joel2017 (talk • contribs) 22:25, 4 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] "Pure O" OCD

Can we please at least devote a few sentences to explaining the and emphasising the fact that OCD can exist in an almost completely invisible form in which the rituals can take the form of things such as "counter-arguments" in the person's mind to help relieve the anxiety of the obsession. For some sufferers the disease seems to consist of an unwanted "debate" that fills up most of their waking minutes, between the irrational obsessive fears and the intellectual arguments to dispel the fears (which of course only provides relief for a short time, before obsessive thoughts invade the mind again, and a defensive counterargument must be summoned again and so on). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Joel2017 (talk • contribs) 22:37, 4 March 2007 (UTC).

I suffer most of all from this type of ocd but i also have compulsions, many of which are to relieve anxiety as much as anything else. ugghhh ...

and yer its funny, this page has so many edits considering what it's about :) at least we can laugh at our stupid illness. it's xyaasehshalomx here just cant be bothered to log in ...

[edit] Exercise and OCD

Does anyone know if there is any FIRM, SPECIFIC scietific evidence to suggest that physical exercise helps in treating OCD, as it does for other anxiety disorders and depression? One of the changes cuased by chronic ssri treatment (in rats at least) is up-regulation of 5ht2c receptors. However exercise is believed to cause downregulation of central 5ht2c receptors. Therefore is there the potential that exercise could even make OCD worse?

[edit] reference in 1st paragraph?

While I certainly believe that OCD is one of the top 10 most disabling illnesses, the link only goes to a page that has some professor saying that the WHO said this. I think it would be a lot better if someone could find the actual WHO publication... I looked for it and could find no such list. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.75.247.88 (talk) 23:48, 16 March 2007 (UTC).

Well in my book "Overcoming ocd" It says that OCD was called one of the top ten disabling illnesses in the world, by the world health organisation. I saw some website listing all of them in order but I cant remember which one? lol that's not very obsessive of me, sorry! XYaAsehShalomX

[edit] Freak case

On March 4, I edited the list of "Symptoms," and today I saw that it was removed. I have Asperger's Syndrome, to which many people believe OCD, as well as growth with parallels to gigantism, is linked, and this is a problem for me. Now I know that if I do indeed have OCD, then I don't have it as well as most such people! user:gmeric13@aol.com

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