Talk:Notable attacks attributed to the LTTE

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This article is a frequent source of heated debate. Please try to keep a cool head when commenting here.

[edit] Wikify

Please somebody who care about this article wikify it so that it does not look like a piece of propaganda, simply a list of activities. If not in the near future some one will delete it because it skating on thin ice as far as WP:NOT is concerned. ThanksRaveenS 14:37, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scope of this page

I am wondering about the scope of this page. What's the point of distinguishing it from Terrorist attacks attributed to the LTTE? What about incidents that can't exactly be called "attacks", such as the recent abduction and eventual release of 21 schoold kids? Maybe this page should be renamed, but I don't have an idea for a better name just now. — Sebastian 03:22, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

This page was broken off from the main LTTE article some months ago cos it was supposed to clutter the main article. This discussion has more info on that Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Notable_attacks_by_the_LTTE. Like I said in the AFD [[1]], right now the reason we have two articles is the Terrorist attacks one should list all attacks while the notable attacks one lists only the most notable one for easy reference.

But I do like your suggestion. Maybe we could rename it as something like Notable human rights violations by the LTTE? Then we can list the child abductions, as well as stuff like the Expulsion of Muslims from Jaffna. Any suggestions? --snowolfD4^{( talk / @ )} 06:25, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

As a clarification this page addresses all major attacks on civilians, military camps and politicians. The Terorist attacks attributed to the LTTE page list only terrorist attacks but not all of them are major Dutugemunu

Sounds good to me. I'd say we'll give it 24 hours to see if there are any arguments against it, and then move it. — Sebastian 07:21, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Terrorist attacks, notable attacks and human rights violation are all completely different issues. Terrorist attacks can only be attributed also one has to go through each incident to verify whether it fits the definition of Terrorism that is it is attack against civilians to cause fear and carnage in general. Notable attacks are attacks that fits WP:N that is there should be enough notability of these attacks. Of all the articles about LTTE, this is the only WP:V, WP:N, WP:RS and WP:NPOV article. The terrorist attacks by LTTE is a mess of an article still although it can be made into an encyclopedic article if the editors want it to be. Human rights in Sri Lanka with a subsection under LTTE already exits. It is again a WP:N, WP:NPOV, WP:RS article. Yes one could expand that section then break off it into a main article eventually called Human Rights violations by the LTTE. But please leave the only article that provides encyclopedic value to readers alone for the time being. Instead of taking a good referenced article and making it a mess like all LTTE related articles are, why not strategize and create a new article called Human Rights violations by the LTTE. The only logical merge of Notable attacks is with Terrorist attacks, if and when both become compatible not with Human Rights violations by the LTTE as the subject matters are completely different. RaveenS 13:49, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Interesting points. Let's look at each of them:

completely different issues

I disagree. There is substantial overlap. In particular, many terrorist attacks are attacks on civilians, and all attacks on civilians are human rights violations. For lack of a better word, I will call the three collectively "incidents" in this discussion. My main concern with having separate articles for each category is that it only leads to POV wars. This distinction forces every editor to first of all, before he/she can even write the first word about an incident, focus on and defend the incident's classification, which is often a judgement call.

Terrorist attacks can only be attributed

This is not a necessary distinction to other incidents.

WP:V, WP:N, WP:RS and WP:NPOV

These policies should apply to every article on Wikipedia. While I can imagine that waiving one of them may make sense in specific situations, I am not aware that there has been a decision to do so. We should all work together to raise all articles to these standards.

The terrorist attacks by LTTE is a mess of an article

This might have to do with the requirement that one has to go through each incident to verify whether it fits the definition of Terrorism. However, we should discuss that on the article talk page.

Human rights in Sri Lanka already exists

Good point! I'll take a look at that article.

please leave the only article that provides encyclopedic value to readers alone for the time being

Good point. I won't insist on changing this article for now.

why not strategize and create a new article called Human Rights violations by the LTTE

This is certainly an option. I did not consider it for the reasons given above and because I don't see the big distinction that you're seeing.

if and when both become compatible not with Human Rights violations

I'm sorry, I don't understand this point. — Sebastian 20:30, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Sebastian, I am taking a Xmas break so this is my last no response. I will see you guys after a 10 day break, that is if I can keep away from this Wikipedia:-((, meanwhile do what ever you guys feel about these articles. I know the Wikiprocess at the end always results in good articles, it just takes a bit longer when those have to do with race , religion and politics :-))) RaveenS 20:49, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your message. Enjoy your wikation! This comes a bit as a surprise - I hope you don't feel you have to take a break? Since you were the only active editor of the "other party", I will try to slow down potentially contentious decisions, but it will of course not be possible to wait 10 days every time. — Sebastian 21:06, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

Major military, guerrilla and terrorist style attacks by the LTTE are covered in the article Notable attacks by the LTTE. military, guerrilla attacks cannot be moved to Terrorist attacks attributed to the LTTE. Only major terrorist incidents are listed on the Notable attacks by the LTTE. We can rename Notable attacks by the LTTE as Major attacks by the LTTE. Dutugemunu 01:02, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] merge

I have finished moving non-notable terrorist incidents into Terrorist attacks attributed to the LTTE. . Only notable incidents now left on Notable attacks by the LTTE. This shoudl clearly distinguish the separate scope of these pagesDutugemunu 13:38, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Then we should leave it aloneRaveenS

I'm happy that you both agree, so I'll drop my objections. — Sebastian 06:57, 12 January 2007 (UTC)