Talk:Northstar

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Contents 1 Wertham 2 recent edits 3 Mantlo 4 Marvel killing Northstar in three seperate timelines 5 Ultimate Northstar 6 Northstar and Rogue 7 Ultimate Northstar 8 Gay and Quebequois? 9 School Teacher

[edit] Wertham

"Comics have long contained hints and innuendos about the sexual orientation of many heroes. In the 1950s, anti-comic activist Frederic Wertham imagined that there was homoeroticism in Batman's relationship with Robin, his then teenage sidekick. Writers at DC Comics utterly rejected this characterization of their characters as an unfounded attack. Over the years the writers of Batman at DC comics have consistently held to one overriding relationship between Batman/Bruce Wayne and the first Robin/Dick Grayson, and that was a father-son type relationship."

Moved from the page. Where to put it? PMC 21:01, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] recent edits

Firstly, I am not sure why we need to make “Northstar” a section heading when it is the name of the article.

Secondly, I tried to put the description of his superpowers in more layman terms.

Thirdly, I like the Byrne comments. They help readers understand his intentions in making the character gay and how he slipped his homosexuality under the radar, but do we need to print verbatim everything Byrne said, especially considering that a lot of it deals with fledging out the Alpha Flight characters in general and perceiving the others as straight? I do think it would be good if someone could provide a link to that post. But I don’t think the article needs all of it. --70.20.74.137 23:56, 2 Feb 2005 (UTC)

http://www.byrnerobotics.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2044&KW --DrBat 12:15, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Mantlo

Mantle also attempted to explain some of Northstar’s more gay-seeming traits by revealing that he and Aurora were actually members of a fairy race, but this later was retconed

No, he was making fun of Northstar's sexuality (a fairy is a derogatory term for a gay man). After Marvel wouldnt let Mantlo off Northstar via AIDS, he did that and wrote him off the book. --DrBat 12:20, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Marvel killing Northstar in three seperate timelines

This month was notable for Marvel killing Northstar in three seperate timelines within the space of one calendar month, between the 16th of February and the 9th of March 2005 (as well as W25, the new version of the Age of Apocalypse and X-Men: The End). This is believed to be unheard of in Marvel Comics. It is possible that this may have just been a coincidence, however.

Do we need this? It implies homophobia on Marvel's part which was not the case.First of all, most writers write their issues ahead of time so titles usually dont coincide with events (i.e.Colossus has been back for several months yet the Uncanny issue that deals with his return has yet to come out).

• Wolverine #25-Northstar didnt stay dead for one issue.
  
• X-Men: The End-Characters have been killed off since the first issue. Northstar had a pretty good death, also. Dying and then being reunited with Alpha Flight.
  
• AOA-In the AoA universe, Northstar and Aurora were villains (along with a Mengele-type Beast and Havok, who killed his own brother). We also had a mentally unstable Colossus who ended up killing Kitty Pryde. Northstar being a villain in that timeline wasnt homophobic (and the original series was written by Lobdell, who outed Northstar). Nor was the AoA Wolverine killing Northstar (and didnt NS resemble Nosferatu in the new AOA mini?)--DrBat 23:34, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)

• coincidence or not, it's noteworthy. no homophobia on marvel's part need be implied; we can just mention the unusual timing. -leigh (φθόγγος) 04:07, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)

• Exactly, which is why I put it in. Whatever the motives (even if it is a complete accident), it's a noteworthy fact in any article about a character - SoM 17:31, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ultimate Northstar

Whoever changed the picture, it wasn't working so I changed it back. --Leelan 19:34, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Northstar and Rogue

I recently put up a paragraph regarding Rogue finding out about Northstar's previous gay secret prior to him officially coming out, including panel art. This was deleted with the following reasoning: "not really relevant; the scene with Rogue wasnt the only thing that hinted at Northstar's orientation". I'm not arguing that this was the only hint at Northstar's orientation, but it is definately a valid one. It is important as Rogue was one of the first significant characters to find out about Jean-Paul's hidden life. His having Rogue to talk to about it (albet through indirect conversation) in the X-Men/Alpha Flight Special was one of the first steps Northstar took in accepting that part of himself. (Very good writing on Chris Claremont's part) A good majority of Northstar's storylines prior to Alpha Flight #106 never allowed one to focus in this area too much. Artemisboy 00:50, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

I saw the paragraph and didn't see anything irrelevent about it. If it's an issue of space (as this is a long article), perhaps the description of that scene could be shortened and another scene--AF #7 when JP takes his sister to meet Raymonde--could be added. That way, the paragraph would maximize space but would point to a couple of different ways writers found to hint at JP's sexuality during a time when open portrayals of homosexuality weren't allowed in Marvel. Breakaway 01:02, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Has it ever been addressed again in comics, either by Rogue or Northstar? No. The characters probably havent even appeared together besides this ish.

Were there other scenes that implied Northstar's sexuality? Yes. Then what makes this scene so special? It wasnt the first, either.

Its not of anything of particular importance, and I dont think it was "one of the first steps Northstar took in accepting that part of himself". Furthermore, I dont think he ever did have a problem with accepting himself. He was just angry at Rogue because he thought she was violating his privacy. Again, the scene isnt relevant. --DrBat 01:20, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Actually, it seems only to be irrelevant to you. You may be thinking of some throw away one panel suggestions that Northstar may be gay but in the case of the X-Men/Alpha Flight comic there were several scenes in which this was hidden yet centered upon. The first was when Rogue absorbed Northstar's powers and memories. She makes it a point to state that she knows ALL of his secrets. Later in the field, Northstar wasn't just angry at Rogue for violating his privacy. Sure he says that, but Rogue is very quick to point out to him that she knows what is really eating him and that he has no right to be so unhappy about it. Northstar's response? "Without my powers I'm nothing". Hence, yes Northstar had early issues with who he was. This is again later reinforced when Northstar is put on the spot to dance and Sasquatch and Aurora mock him as not being warm enough to dance with. Again it is Rogue who lets audiences know that it is not that he is a cold person, but actually that he doesn't like to be "vulnerable" in situations. So the X-Men/Alpha Flight Special isn't a throw away issue with invalid points toward the sub-heading of Northstar's homosexuality. It is actually VERY valid in that it is one of the few times that his inner workings on the subject were explored before the infamous Alpha Flight #106 issue. Artemisboy 16:30, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Put it to a vote if its that important to you.

Read his spotlight at uncannyxmen.net. In context with the rest of his appearances, the crossover doesn't stand out as something of that much importance. Again, has either Northstar or Rogue ever mentioned it again? Northstar's not the only one to have his memories absorbed by Rogue and get angry about having their privacy violated.

Furthermore, the homosexuality article talks about what went on behind the scenes with the various writers and the TPTB at Marvel, not NS's character history. --DrBat 00:05, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ultimate Northstar

His character history section needs to be condensed. We can't have sections for each story arc he's appeared in. --DrBat 21:21, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Truncate the Ultimate history of Northstar if you must, but I think it's useful to leave the description of Ultimate Northstar's powers and abilities there. The fact he can't fly (unlike the original) is significant to the plot from the start—In the very first few pages he appears in, he falls off a building and requires the rescue of a flier. Later during the attempted rescue of Polaris, Northstar uses his speed to run on water and worries about falling in (There are a few other situations where he would be better off flying). Someone who is familiar with the old Northstar, but not the Ultimate version may justifiably wonder why he doesn't just fly in each of those instances. If such a person comes a-looking for answers on Wiki, it'll be there for him/her.--Perceive 07:53, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gay and Quebequois?

HAHAHA... Gay and Quebequois?? You can't make that stuff up...AHAHAH 20:35, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Is there a point to this comment? Mallanox 10:53, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes there is. If you read his character development, its peculiar how the writers could not get away from him being a stereotypical gay irritating french man. For example, When Bill Mantlo succeeded Byrne as Alpha Flight writer, he began a storyline in which Northstar became infected with a strange illness. Mantlo intended to reveal that the illness was AIDS and then kill off the character in Alpha Flight #50. However, Marvel's editors intervened and Mantlo was forced to change the ending: instead of dying of AIDS, Northstar was revealed to be a magical being whose illness was the result of prolonged separation from his homeland..<read on>

I.e Quebec. Another planet indeed.

I told my gf about this (she lives in Quebec), and she asked if his special power was "being lazy". Maybe some room for future character development??CJ DUB 20:16, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Alright....?--<b>Chris Griswold</b> 23:23, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok, this is clearly a joke that isn't apparent to those not in the know. I won't pretend I understand now! If this helps understand the character or stereotype maybe someone could explain in the main article? Mallanox 22:08, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

The joke is easy to understand: Being gay and being Quebecois is a popular negative, bigoted stereotype, especially in Canada. If you cannot understand the joke, think of it in this context: A parallel would be a Marvel superhero that is a Star Wars fan. The character is then revealed to live in his parents' basement. Ho-Ho-Ho! Thus, Northstar being gay and Quebecois is a cruel in-joke by Marvel scribes towards the character. In essence, a homophobic slur taking full advantage of the "this character is an example of homosexual being accepted" façade. Very sad, but very revealing that Marvel did this. -- Flask 10:31, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Well, John Byrne is Candadian, and he has made some bigoted remarks before. --Chris Griswold 17:39, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] School Teacher

If he really is a fictional school teacher, may I suggest you actually add something in the article to say so? As it is, it looks exactly like a cataloguing error. Note that mentoring is not really the same as being a *school* teacher. It is quite possible to mentor someone outside a formal educational establishment. Rhialto 08:22, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

The infobox says "Xavier Institute faculty". --Chris Griswold (☎☓) 08:36, 13 October 2006 (UTC)