Talk:Norse-Gaels

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Calgacus is into power and control over the article he started. Pray tell, would you care to see maps or atlases displaying the Norse-Gael colonisation of ancient Richmondshire? Who cares if you don't think it's relevant, being a Scot and all. I'm English and it matters to me; you don't own the topic anymore than you own the article. IP Address 21:13, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

You should watch it with the personal attacks. See , for instance, WP:Civil and WP:Assume good faith. I don't see its pertinent relevance. It is unmentioned in the article, and looks odd. If you were interested in creating genuine useful links, rather than pushing the Richmondshire link, you would list a number of regions particularly associated with the Norse-Gaels, i.e. Galloway, Argyll, Dublin, the Hebrides; even Cumberland. But why should Richmondshire be the only region linked? No reason. Thanks. - Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 21:18, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

I hope you recognise the importance of teamwork. IP Address 21:41, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

You apparently don't and still believe that only your perception which began at the time this article was created, is the one that everybody else should or must follow. How dare you?! WP:OWN IP Address 21:57, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

It's not about me owning the article, it's about adding irrelevant material to this article. What on Earth do the Ulster-Scots of the early modern period have to do with the Gaelic Norse of the early and central middle ages? Of what relevance is Recusancy or Saxon and Norman to do with the Gall Gaidheal? If anyone's trying to "own" the article, it's you by adding what can only can be regarded as nonsense. Please forgive me, either you have only a weak grip on this topic, or you are purposely trolling. - Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 22:07, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Sorry if you don't accept the thing called "citing sources". If you choose to be daft as a way of being a dick, then you have yourself to blame. Care to refute the research done by professional historians, mister amateur? IP Address 22:13, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

These connections are alive and prospering, or should I doubt my own existence and that of Richmond's Duke--that Gordon-Lennox fellow living down in Goodwood House? There has been a constant continuation and flow of this culture around the Irish Sea for centuries, but I don't know what can cure your blindness in something so close to make your skin crawl. Me; I'm Northern English of Norse-Gael ancestry in Richmondshire as are all the families in the area from which my family has sprung (the earliest record of an owner of my ancestral town, was of a certain Thorfinn). I have a Scottish (also Anglo-Irish) spouse and all the forenames of my male relatives, including myself are Scottish, Irish Gaelic or Scoto-Norman. I used to be a really big fan of Nordic metal and such cultural attributes always linger. My many cousins celebrate their Irish heritage whenever possible, but I have mixed feelings about the Northern Ireland situation. I bet you've got no reckoning on this sort of vein in UK society, or just are denying it out of spite to your feigned ignorance and me calling you out on the spot. Is it any coincidence that my favourite meats are cod, salmon and lamb or that I was encouraged to know my Norwegian heritage from bairnhood? You are essentially, denying my life and all that I am. I attribute my enjoyment of cold weather and natural ability at sailing to my Norse-Gael ancestors. When I die, I want to be buried on the Isle of Iona. Go ahead and blot me out; how's that for WP:Civil and WP:Assume good faith?

I'l admit i needed a double take at "I used to be a really big fan of Nordic metal and such cultural attributes always linger". Thats certainly the most original argument for pushing a POV ive come across on wikipedia. An Siarach

I just have a sum of many different attributes, but you have yet to refute what is not a straw man. I'm afraid your counter-argument is based on the weakest part of my argument, not the strongest. That is by definition, exploiting a straw man. IP Address 23:01, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

That i'd put forward a counter-argument is news to me my friend, i merely commented on the rather credibility reducing arguments you had put forward. To be totally blunt, your comments here, on various other talk pages, and those accompanying edits do far more to discredit you than i could hope to.An Siarach

You joined the party only to shit on me. I'm sorry, but did your grandparents not teach you how to be polite? You weren't involved, but jumped from the frying pan into the fire. I'm afraid that I don't care what your opinion is of me, but that you please learn to be reasonable. If you wish to continue looking like an ass, by ignoring WP:PA then it's all up to you. BTW, this other guy suggested that Wikipedia policy to me before you arrived. So, are you going to ignore what I say because I say it...even though he said it first? You do agree with his position, do you or do you not? Don't pick fights, or run into traffic. BTW, I appear to be the only one accepting the Wikipedia policy of citing sources. Beat that instead of beat off. IP Address 23:21, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

It really is pleasant being saved, so completely, from having to make any effort at debating. Do you seriously think that your tactic of firing forth serious attitude, personal attacks etc is going to gain you the slightest bit of credibility or go any way towards proving your point? Whatever your reasoning is, im not going to bother commenting again. Enjoy your trolling. An Siarach

I knew you liked fighting; you continue to bait over and over again. You are the troll calling me a troll, a classic troll tactic. IP Address 23:38, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

IP Address, why did you violate again when you already knew you had violated 3RR? You are now on 5 reverts! - Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 23:30, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

At least I know I'm right, that the info will be right the next time I go to the library or open up the books I got at home. You can continue living in a dream world. IP Address 23:38, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

6 reverts. Even though neither me nor An Siarach can revert your spam, this won't help you; you'll just get blocked. - Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 23:42, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Gobbledegook

What on earth is going on here? For information, here is the section that IP Address keeps trying to insert:

• The specific region Norse-Gaels settled in Northern England was once all of one piece and after the Norman Conquest called Richmondshire, the land which was composed of the Irish Sea's coast from the River Ribble (although some went to Cheshire) and throughout Cumbria into the Yorkshire Dales. Toponymy is often used to distinguish between these origins and Danish colonisation from the North Sea coast (see Danelaw). Although the Norwegian element is undisputed, the Celtic side is more Brythonic by tradition and continues to be an English subculture throughout the region. What he calls the "Quaker" North Midlands is discussed at depth in David Hackett Fischer's Albion's Seed, heavily overlapping the "Scotch-Irish" cultural area of North Britain for all intents and purposes. Professor Fischer expounds upon the Norse surnames and villages of the Quakers (e.g. Margaret Fell) who were poor dalesmen and lived in compact, stone-built homes (much as in Ireland and the Scottish Western Isles across the water). Quaker historian Hugh Barbour believes there were innate differences between the locals and their Norman overlords for many centuries, that the commoners were Evangelical while their landlords were Recusant. Barbour maintains that the Norman system of feudal manors was always resented, compared to the preferred Norse method of "moots". These people wore a style of clothing called "hodden grey" and they raised sheep, contibuting much to the industrial development throughout the North of England.

Eh? I just cannot make head nor tail of it. The above contribution is impenetrable, poorly written, and has every appearance of being plain pants (not helped by the bizarre comments left by the writer on various Talk pages). Is the User perhaps confusing "Norse-Gaels" with the "Vikings" for which he is currently studying for his school project? A striking example is the confusion between the terms Brythonnic, Celtic and Gael - apparently all mean the same thing to the writer. --Mais oui! 12:01, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Revised version

Well, I haven't defended that version since I was blocked for the 3RR. I simplified it and made the issues discussed, much easier for the casual reader. Your simplistic assumptions about my person are way out of order. Many books talk about the "Norsemen from Ireland" who settled on the highlands of Northern England and also, the joint attacks of Irish-Norse with Harold Godwinson's sons who attempted the dislodging of the Normans in 1069-1070. There is a weird thing here, that Calgacus is very Cumbrian-centric or Celto-centric. If it isn't Cumbria specifically, he goes apeshit at the mention of Norse-Gaels in English history. Tell that to the archaeologists! IP Address 19:06, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

All right. Angus has done very well in the last edit. IP Address 20:13, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Well it seemed reasonable to me before I edited anything, so hopefully our little disagreements can be forgotten. This needs expanded, and the Kings of Dublin article was tagged for cleanup today, so it too needs TLC. Perhaps the Norwegian translator of Scotland in the High Middle Ages Finn Bjo will write something for the Bokmål WP that we can ask him to translate, or perhaps someone already has. Shoulders of giants and all that. Viking age articles in general need brushing up, but what doesn't ? Anyway, that's my 2 eurocents. Back to watching TV and writing Domnall mac Áedo. Angus McLellan (Talk) 20:23, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

I completely agree. IP Address 20:37, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scottish flags of relevance

Flag	Date	Use	Description
		Standard of the Duke of Rothesay	Banner of the Duke's Arms, 1st and 4th quarters representing the title of Great Steward of Scotland, the 2nd and 3rd quarters representing the title of Lord of the Isles. In the centre is an inescutcheon, of the arms of the heir apparent to the King of Scotland

Flag	Date	Use	Description
		Flag of Orkney (unofficial)	A red Nordic cross on a yellow field
		Flag of Shetland	A white Nordic cross on a light blue field
		Flag of Barra	A white Nordic Cross on a green field
		Flag of Lewis	The blue and white stripes are said to represent the seven traditional areas of Lewis. In the fly is a white Nordic Cross on a red field

What, you're not thinking of putting them on the article? - Calgacus (ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ) 21:05, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

I've cast aside my flippancy. I leave this to a group decision. IP Address 21:55, 22 April 2006 (UTC)