Talk:Norfolk, Virginia

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Contents

[edit] To-Do List

A suggested organization for the major sections of this article might be:

  • History = bullet points need to be turned into prose.
  • Geography and Climate - expanded upon
    • Cityscape
  • Pronunciation - needs to be redone.
  • People and Culture - Perhaps the culture section could link to a separate article on the culture of Hampton Roads in general, since a lot of culture seems to overlap with other cities.
    • Demographics - needs cleanup
    • Annual cultural events and fairs - done
    • Museums and Art Collections - done
    • Media - non-existent at the moment
    • Parks and Outdoor Attractions - needs work
    • Performing Arts - done
    • Sports - done
  • Economy - done
  • Infrastructure - needs cleanup
    • Government
    • Education - done
    • Transportation
    • Utilities
  • Sister cities - done
  • See also - links to various lists (famous celebrities, mayors, schools, etc)
  • References - textbook and other references
  • External links

See the Wikipedia:Featured articles of Seattle, Washington and San Jose, California for guidelines. The article on Louisville, Kentucky is also well organized. Dr. Cash 16:00, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Satellite Photo

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Where exactly did this satellite photo come from? I'm having a really hard time picturing the cities in it, especially comparing it to newer satellite images from Google Maps. The caption says the Newport News and Hampton are in it as well, but it seems to me like it looks more like south Hampton Roads, not the Peninsula cities. Dr. Cash 16:15, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Maybe it'd help to turn your head? North is to the left: That squarish thing in the middle is Craney Island. The Chesapeake Bay Bridge-Tunnel is just visible at the top.
—wwoods 16:36, 28 July 2005 (UTC)
Ok, I think I see it now. I think I recognize Willoughby Spit, and a few of the bridge-tunnels. Thanks! Dr. Cash 16:52, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation

Some residents do not pronounce the "L" in the city's name, pronouncing it "NAW-fuk" instead of "NOR-folk" while others claim it is heralded as "NOR-fick",

I don't understand that. It implies "folk" has a pronounced l, which it doesn't...? Morwen - Talk 13:53, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I made this edit, and the edit up there now - A sizeable portion of the poulation pronounces the town's name this alternative way, (as I do) so I feel it warrants a mention. It may even be the more prevalent pronunciation (and it is a topic near and dear to my heart.) As to your comment, some (ill-guided) locals and tourists actually do (incorreclty or not) pronounce the L in norfolk.

I just want to chime in, and agree. At least locally, the "L" is usually silent when other Virginians speak of the city. Vaoverland 08:38, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)

  • Not sure exactly how to write the pronunciation section yet, but for starter, for the Love of God, please don't use the word FUCK in the description of the pronunciation. That is just vulgar and unprofessional - not something I'd expect to see in an encyclopedia. I think the pronunciation would best be covered in its own section heading, Pronunciation, and we should use the standard IPA to describe this. The Louisville, Kentucky article has a good example of how to cover the pronunciation of the city. Also, as a general rule, the Trivia section should be removed and the info about the naval shipyard should be migrated elsewhere, as Trivia sections are not really standard for city articles (we learned this in the Louisville article as it is currently up for featured article status and that was one of the concerns raised). Dr. Cash 04:31, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Since a vast, vast majority of people from the area pronounce it without the L, would it be right to call the "folk" pronounciation "incorrect?" Saying that would give people a clear-cut message that most people who know better don't do that. Hiyayaywhopee 03:55, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

I live in southeast Virginia, and I say "NAW-fuck", the folks from Suffolk pronounce it as "NAW-folk", like they would "SUF-olk". I also deal alot with the Norfolk Southern Railroad and I hear it commonly pronounced by employees and railfans as "NOR-fick" "Su-th-ern". I still think it is "NAW-fuck." Brakeman Billy 18:04, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

This is off the topic title, but in the discussion: The shipyard is named "Norfolk" because the location is in, the (now defunct) County of Norfolk. It has nothing to do with Portsmouth Naval Shipyard. See here (http://www.nnsy1.navy.mil/History/NAME.HTM) for a reference. I do not know how to add the reference myself, so I will leave it to someone with more experiance. Bill Mason

There is a Norfolk Naval Shipyard in Portsmouth, VA, they deal with Nuclear subs and such, I thought this was because there is already a Portsmouth Naval Shipyard in NH? Brakeman Billy 18:49, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

The way I've heard it pronounced sounds controversial. Sounds like Norfook.

[edit] History

bullet points need to be put into prose.

I don't think we need to explain the english shire system, as a "a common municiple..." That's a very American centric pov. Most anglo commonwealth country visitors will know what shires are, and anyway, the very next sentence discusses the breakup of the shires into counties.

[edit] Norfolk Flag

NAVA's American City Flags Survey ranks the flags of 150 U.S. Cities. Norfolk's down at 116, but it's on there. I don't know any of the legal mumbo-jumbo about using the graphic on the site, but I figure you guys can figure it out, right? Hiyayaywhopee 05:47, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for finding that! US (and state and city) flag images are in the public domain, so I uploaded the file and placed the appropriate US/city flag copyright tag on the image. Dr. Cash 16:36, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Should Norfolk be a disambiguation page again?

I'm relatively new to Wikipedia, though I know enough to know that any humble American who suggests something inclusive of America runs the risk of being accused of cultural imperialism. (Not by the majority, mind you, but by a certain element.) So please don't bite me for this suggestion; I mean it with the purest of intentions. Norfolk, Virginia has a population of about 250,000 and most Americans (all ~300 million of us) think of it when we hear the word "Norfolk". Yes, yes, "America is not the world", but isn't a disambiguation page the most inclusive thing to do? It seems that that was the status quo until about a year ago when there was near-unilateral action to move Norfolk, England to Norfolk (see Talk:Norfolk) and no one has undone it. About 1000-1500 links each point to both Norfolk and Norfolk, Virginia, and I guarantee you many of those "Norfolk" links are intended for Norfolk, Virginia as placed by misinformed countrymen of mine. What are your thoughts? Raggaga 02:34, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Interesting thought. Norfolk, UK is the first Norfolk and that which lends it's name to all the other Norfolk's that there are scattered round the globe so I guess that it has some precidence to be where the link points to, also Norfolk UK is considerably larger in terms of geographical area and population than Norfolk, VA. I think that I would vote to leave the links as they are but add a little bit more on the disambiguation at the start, as for the mis directed links we should fix them. I'll do 200 or so if you will, don't know if this is something that a bot can help with, i.e. if it could do some of this work - I will try to research it. Rob 20:20, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
I would have to agree here that Norfolk should probably go to a disambiguation page. The problem here is that Norfolk, VA is generally what people say when they actually mean the Greater Hampton Roads area. So even though there's not a tremendously large number of people here, Norfolk will probably be disproportionally mentioned when talking about this general area. Therefore, I think having "Norfolk" automatically redirect you to the Norfolk, UK page is probably going to be misleading to a lot of people. Again, I might be culturally biased (even moreso because I live in Chesapeake), but a disambiguation page is probably the best way to go. And we won't even get into all of the other Norfolks out there who probably feel the same way.  :)

[edit] Cleanup

20th Century History - TOO LONG Downtown - needs to be it's own article.

Also, we need prose rather than bullets, and past tense, rather than timeline style. Vaoverland 18:49, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

My goal was just to get "something down", that can later be put into prose and refined more throughly. The way it was before, the information was either incorrect, trivial, grossly incomplete, poorly explained, etc. I think one of the reasons the page hasn't been edited as it should have been is because it poses such a daunting task. Breaking down the history into bullet points makes it easier to edit. Once all of that is in place, people will have an easier time going back and tackling the bullet points and turning them into prose, like I did with the revolutionary war period, introduction to the 19th century, and the reworking of per colonial history (nice addition btw.. you did them while I was also editing).

[edit] downtown Norfolk redevelopment history

Hi Wikipedia, I added some information on the history of redevelopment of downtown Norfolk, particularly the waterfront and Granby Street. I'm an urban planner by profession now and I owe my route to this career I have by watching the actions and programs of Norfolk and its downtown revitalization policies throughout the 80's and 90's while I was in high school, and still follow its progress to this day.

I reorganized some of the content for narrative flow, and reorganized the subject headings for hierarchy-sake.

Thanks.

this needs to be either trimmed down some, or moved into a separate article. It is entirely too long to be a synopsis of what should be maybe 1 or 2 paragraphs maximum discussing downtown.

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