Talk:Noble gas

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[edit] Naming of the noble gases

That origin of the term noble gas seems rather far-fetched to me. Far more logical is that they're named analagously to noble metals, which were so named because they were expensive/rare/pretty. &#0xfeff;--fvw* 13:56, 2004 Dec 15 (UTC)

Whereas the gases are not rare, expensive or especially pretty (colourless?) :)... To be honest I'm not sure where the name come from, however it seems to be a natural progression from inert (meaning totaly unreactive) to noble (which, to me at least, implies unlikely to react). --NeilTarrant 18:21, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Noble → unlikely to react leaves a few millenia of wars unexplained…

The link I was suggesting was more of a "noble metals" are so called because of their rarity, expensiveness, and prettiness → Noble metals are reasonably inert → Noble stuff is reasonably inert → hence noble gasses are the ones that are reasonably inert.

It may not be incredibly obvious, but it's a lot more credible to me than "Nobles don't do anything", which has never been true of idealised western nobility. &#0xfeff;--fvw* 18:51, 2004 Dec 15 (UTC)

Okay, I've done a little reseach in the Online Oxford English Dictionary:

Noble: Originally, of stones or metal: * precious (obs.); (also) * not destroyed by fire (obs.). Later, of a metal such as gold, silver, or platinum: resisting corrosion, as by oxidation or the action of acids; relatively unreactive; (of any chemical element) low in the electrochemical series. Also fig.

So it looks like you were right and I was wrong... fair enough :-) --Neo 13:18, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The nobles gases were originally called inert gases because they were believed to be completely unreactive. After realizing they could form compounds, the name was changed to noble gases, implying that reactivity amongst them is very rare. Just as people of the nobility did not associate with lower classes, the noble gases did not readily react with any of the other elements. --Mjp797 14:20, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

The article used to have a sentence stating this, which was the cause for the discussion above. As no source could be found, the sentence was removed. --Neo 15:53, May 13, 2005 (UTC)

On the same topic as above, the article implies that the term rare gas isn't used anymore. Many chemists still say rare gases or RG for short. Like the Rare Earth Metals, this originates from an from a mistaken preception that they weren't that common. However, the use of the term rare gas can be justified today by the definition of "rare" as "marked by unusual quality or appeal". Afn 11:03, 16 September 2005 (UTC)

Was looking for the origin of the term noble. Enjoyed the discussion. Could we put a consensus best guess back in the main article ? e.g. the term "noble" was probably used to mirror the previous use of the adjective in relation to unreactive precious metals (e.g. gold). (Diggers2004 02:47, 21 September 2005 (UTC))

I've added the following paragraph; I hope it is acceptable to all concerned:

It seems likely that the name 'noble gases' is a reference to the unreactive noble metals, so called due to their preciousness, resistance to corrosion and long association with the aristocracy.

Someone who has a reference source ought to note the origins of the name on the noble metals page as well. --Neo 15:59, 21 September 2005 (UTC)

I'd have to say that noble gasses are called such because they have a full outer shell, thus being essentially "happy". And seeing as atoms want to aquire a full shell and become noble. Doesn't everyone want to become noble? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.29.58.69 (talk • contribs) 01:54, 3 February 2006 (UTC).

[edit] explanation line.

this box seems a bit over the top considering that the periodic table peice in question covers only noble gasses and only one undiscovered atom. I'd say remove it and just add a note with the image that UUO isn't discovered yet. What do others think? Plugwash 00:27, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

• It seems that these data are just extrapolations of properties of other noble gases. They were apparently taken from www.apsidium.com. I have removed them and placed them here, as unproven information (element 118 most likely wasn't discovered yet). - Mike Rosoft 13:38, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah all that exists is a placeholder systematic name for the hypothetical element, should it ever be synthesized. Putting all those property guesstimates in place like they were real facts is daft.

I wonder if Uuo will turn out to be a semi-metal or noble gas, or both, if they would be able to find out.Antononio 02:34, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reactivity

Obviously the Noble Gases are pretty much unreactive but I've read about some experiments done in which the nobles did react. has anyone seen this?
the two examples i have of these experiments are here and here.

--Aslaveofaudio 16:19, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

yeah, and your point is...? :) --feline1 16:35, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

That's old news. See Category:Xenon compounds. Krypton and argon make stable compounds as well. The only element that really doesn't form stable compounds at all is helium. —Keenan Pepper 21:23, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

and neon /yawns/ --feline1 23:06, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discovery

At the moment the article suggests that the noble gases were discovered first twice : as argon in the air and helium in the sun. Which one is it? Cheers, --Plumbago 16:49, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge of Monatomic

There are non-Noble monatomic gases. For example most gases at high temperatures and some exist as monatomic gases at lower temperatures albeit temporarily.

OK, I have removed the merge tags and added something to that article. Please sign your comments. --Bduke 03:47, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] History of the periodic table

(Copied questions from Talk:Helium)

One form of Mendeleev's periodic table, from the 1st English edition of his textbook (1891, based on the Russian 5th edition)

• When was helium identified as the element with atomic number 2 in the periodic table of elements?

This periodic table from 1891 (Image:Mendeleev Table 5th II.jpg) does not list helium, nor does it leave an empty slot for element number 2. The result is that all elements beyond hydrogen are given an "atomic number" one less than the number of protons. -- Petri Krohn 02:26, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

In fact the table is missing all noble gases, so there are other gaps in the table. Question number #2 is thus:

• When were the noble gases added to the periodic table?

-- Petri Krohn 03:07, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

(Moving discussion to Talk:History of the periodic table)