Talk:Noah

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Contents 1 Refs needed 2 Curse of Ham 3 Section title? 4 Did the flood really happen?

[edit] Refs needed

Can anyone provide references for these statements? "Some scholars to believe that Noah was originally the inventor of wine..." What scholars? "It has been suggested that the Flood story may originally have belonged to Enoch". Suggested by who? This comes from the Jewish Encyclopedia, but needs refs from the original sources (i.e., from whatever the authors of the encyclopedia were quoting from). PiCo 01:25, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Curse of Ham

I am not sure where I read this, so for any of you fanatics out there that have the time to research this, here it goes:

Ham was cursed not because he saw his father naked, but because he stole his garment, which was the same garment that was given to Adam (Genesis 3:21) when he was kicked out of the Garden of Eden. This garment also represented the beginning of animal sacrifice (because it was a coat of skin - which came from an animal) to represent the coming of a Savior to be sacrificed for the sins of all mankind (and although an alter is not mentioned, this is the first reference to an alter being used for sacrifice - this being the same type of sacrifice that was made by Abel, Noah, and many others including Moses - Genesis 4:4, Genesis 9:9, Exodus 20:24 as well as many others). The making of this coat would have been the first sacrifice of a living creature. This coat was also said to be a symbol to all creatures not to harm Adam, which is infered in Genesis 9:2 when God tells Noah that all animals will fear him.

It was also said in the book that I got this information from that Nimrod "a mighty hunter," who was a decendand of Ham (Genesis 10:8-9), may have used this garment to lure animals to him so that he could slay them. This idea also came from Genesis 9:2 when it says "into your hands are all [animals] delivered." If this were the case, it would also explain how Noah was able to get so many different animals in the ark.

Well, there it is. Obviously it is not word for word. Sorry I don't own the book where I read this anymore. I don't remember its title or anything. Despite that I don't own the book anymore, and am unsure who first gave rise to this idea, it is obvious that there is some consideration to be made in reference to the ideas presented here.

I mean, to even consider that such a hefty curse would be put upon someone for seeing a naked man (much less his own father) is somewhat naive.

Nammerama 17:57, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Let us know when you find the book :-). PiCo 04:00, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Okay, if you go to google.com and use these words together in this order "noah ham garment hunter" without the quotation marks you can find plenty of references for ideas mentioned above. Again, I don't have time to go through and reference everything, but it is very fascinating, and if anyone has the time it should be added to this article or to the curse of ham article. Nammerama 06:14, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Section title?

The section title "In the Hebrew Torah" makes little sense. The Torah is by defintion in Hebrew. "In the Hebrew Bible" or "In the Torah" would make more sense. Thoughts? JoshuaZ 02:44, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Just "Summary" I think - that's what that section is, a summary of the story.PiCo 05:52, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Did the flood really happen?

Does anyone have any essays, tv documentaries or even any web pages that discuss if this great flood even actually happened? Or if some kind of flood did happen, did it happen world over, or just in the region Noah lived in? I came here interested in seeing what 200 years enlightened science had discovered about this mythical flood, but this web page just tells the story, it doesn't delve into wether it actually happened, or never really happened at all JayKeaton 06:18, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes the flood was a real flood, but it was a river flood about 2900 BC and affected only a few cities in southern Sumer (Iraq). See the Ziusudra page for more ancient versions of the flood myth. The Ziusudra page links to the Atrahasis page. The Atrahasis myth clearly describes the flood as a river flood. Greensburger 06:54, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes the flood was a real flood covering the entire earth. http://www.answersingenesis.org/home/area/faq/flood.asp ^rossnixon 00:46, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

Your mileage may vary :). PiCo 01:48, 15 February 2007 (UTC) The BBC made a TV documentary called Noah's Ark, which you might possibly be able to get hold of on DVD. It basically says that the bible story is based on the Ziasudra story, and tyhe flood was a once-in-a-thousand-years type event but localised to the Tigris/Euphrates valley. It also assumes that Ziasudra was a real person, which is a pretty big assumption. There's another theory to the effect that a meteor might have done it - exactly how the meteor is supposed to have caused the flood I don't recall, but it seems fitting, given the derivation of the word "meteorological", meaning concerning the weather. PiCo 05:05, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

The word "flood" is not used in Genesis 8. Instead the word "waters" is used, the waters of the Persian Gulf. The Hebrew word "erets" which is usually translated "earth" did not mean the planet earth but rather the ground, the soil, the dirt that a farmer plows. To exaggerate 15 cubits of water on the ground in the Euphrates River valley to the planet earth is not supported by the Genesis text. All flesh died that moved upon the erets. Yes all the people and animals died in the flooded lowlands of southern Iraq. But the people who climbed to high hills above the 15 cubits of Genesis 7:20 did not die. They were not mentioned because they were beyond the scope of the story. The rest of the world outside southern Iraq was also not mentioned because it was beyond the scope of the story. Greensburger 04:33, 15 February 2007 (UTC)