Talk:Nitrous oxide

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This article is part of the WikiProject on Psychedelics, Dissociatives and Deliriants, set up to organize and expand entries on Psychedelics, dissociatives and deliriants as well as related subjects according to chemical type, effects, organic carriers, and cultural/historical uses. Please feel free to participate by editing this article and visiting the project page.

Contents 1 arrow notation 2 spectroscopy 3 Bonding in nitrous oxide 4 Nomenclature of article title 5 Broken link 6 Laughing gas 7 Hippie Crack 8 less pharmacology/recreational focus please 9 PLEASE HELP ME 10 Nitrous oxide laws 11 Dangers of heating ammonium nitrate 12 Exothermic or not? 13 Nitrous oxide and hibernation 14 Inhalation methods 15 Legality contradiction 16 Dipole moment 17 Monopropellant Isp 18 New subpage for recreational use 19 New infobox 20 Merging back in Effects of nitrous oxide on the body 21 External link misdirects

[edit] arrow notation

The image shows the two r(blue and green is the essence of queerness)esonance forms of nitrous oxide as being in equilibrium with one another, which is not correct. The molecule is actually some superposition of the two resonance structures shown, which is demonstrated by using a doubleheaded arrow instead of an equilibrium arrow. I've known inorganic chemists to be more relaxed about this than organic chemists, but it is still not correct as an equilibrium arrow implies that there is some mixed population that is rapidly converting from one type to another which is completely incorrect according to our understang of quantum mechanics. Further, there isn't even any reason to believe that the state would tend to collapse into one of these states, i.e. that either is an eigenstate.

Sorry, my mistake. Thanks for highlighting the error so eloquently. Made the image last night when tired. Fixed now.

Ben 22:45, 8 August 2006 (UTC).

PLEASE be aware of the spam links coming from poweredbynitrous some new commercial link spam--Edited By a Professor of Life 23:26, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] spectroscopy

It would be nice to have a plot of the absorbtion spectrum. Why is this a greenhouse gas? Which wavelengths does it absorb most strongly? Due to which excitations in the molecular structure?

It would be a help if someone could tell how the quantities of N2O in the gaseous mixture are measured. What would be the extent of uncertainty in the measurement?

[edit] Bonding in nitrous oxide

How am I to picture the structure of this molecule? Oxygen wants to acquire two electrons, and nitrogen wants to acquire three or to shed five. So how to they come to an agreement? AxelBoldt 16:27 Nov 25, 2002 (UTC)

this is just a guess, but I'd say this: The one O bonds to both N, so it's happy :-). The angle between two bonds from O is about 120 deg (I think -- check the article on oxygen); that puts the two N close enough to form a double covalent bond between them. So each N has three bonds: one to O and a double to the other N. All present and correct. -- Tarquin 17:51 Nov 25, 2002 (UTC)

Yup, makes sense. I hope nature is smart enough to have figured that one out in the same way that you did :-)

Actually, http://www.chm.bris.ac.uk/motm/n2o/n2ov.htm claims that the the three molecules are chained, with the first N double bounded to the second which in turn is double bounded to the oxygen. AxelBoldt 16:23 Nov 26, 2002 (UTC)

As the image shows, there's a dissociated electron which flits around the molecule meaning the molecule is constantly polarised. -- ThomasWinwood 14:25, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Nitrous oxide is a linear molecule, NNO. Yes, the bonding is difficult to describe with simpler models, although the two canonical forms shown in the article give an idea. There is no "dissociated electron"—nitrous oxide has an even number electrons (30 to be precise)—but there is a delocalised electron pair which "belongs" to all three atoms. Physchim62 15:13, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Nomenclature of article title

I will probably move this page to Dinitrogen Oxide as that is its name. Nitrous oxide is just a comman name(make a redirect). If any has any reasons as to why I shouldn't speak up. -- Tardigrade 17:43, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

DO NOT MOVE THIS PAGE, It is reffered to and known as Nitrous Oxide N20

Object. Nobody uses "dinitrogen oxide", even if you fix your proposed improper capitalization. Google: nearly 1000:1 nitrous oxide. Over 5000:1 if you throw out those which use both. Gene Nygaard 18:22, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Capitalization aside, dintiroGeN oxide is the "proper" name and as an encylopedia it should be acurate. Note that the article already says "name: Dinitrogen oxide". Is there a standard for nomenclature we should adhere to? Tardigrade 00:59, 10 May 2005 (UTC)cont. for example Baking soda redirects to Sodium bicarbonate.

Double strong object!!

1. The proposed article title is contrary to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (chemistry).
2. Dinitrogen oxide is ambiguous as a name. IUPAC will provide you with dinitrogen monoxide or nitrogen(I) oxide—note that IUPAC is not a unique naming system—and these synonyms should probably be referred to in the article.

Physchim62 15:13, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

object. more on chem naming guidelines which do state that the common name should be used as the name of the article. --Heah (talk) 17:19, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Agree and object. How about "Nitrous oxide, formally known as dinitrogen oxide or . . ." (see my proposal to have this apply on all articles here) Twilight Realm 21:06, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

STRONGLY OBJECT this is a mistake and not 100% accurate do not move or touch this page

I think title should be kept as Nitrous Oxide, as that is the name to which it is most well known (500x as many google hits for example). However, I do think the 'name' entry in the inorganic table should include all three names. Is there specific policy on that? Jens Nielsen 20:37, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

I also object, chemistry textbooks routinely refer to this compound as nitrous oxide. If you must, include the proper chemical name in the title as well, but don't remove "nitrous oxide."

[edit] Broken link

Don't know how to fix it but...the "Hazardous Chemical Database" link in the table under safety is broken. Poseidon^3 01:50, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

• Fixed now. Physchim62 18:51, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Laughing gas

Yes, I know that the purpose of Wikipedia is to tell facts, but do we really need to tell people that they can obtain laughing gas from whipped cream? It's a great way to increase drug use, telling anyone who wants to know an easy way to obtain the illegal substance. Guess who the only people are who would use that information? Twilight Realm 21:40, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

We tell people how to make a Teller-Ulam device. The fact that nitrous oxide is used in whipped cream and other food applications is hardly a secret. Also, it's a little bit biased to call it an illegal substance; for instance, here in NC, USA, there are plenty of legal uses, and posession is not inherently illegal. My understaning is that is true for most of the world. There are also plenty of places where inhaling N2O for recreational purposes is legal. Evand 18:12, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Getting it out of whipped cream in sufficient quantities to have an effect would be quite a challenge. I think it is important to point out that nitrous oxide has legitimate uses, more so than to dwell on its actual or pending criminalisation in a minority of US states. Physchim62 17:58, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Contrary to Physchim62 the inhaltion of one can is all that is necessary to induce the intoxication associated with n20 use. For a deeper and longer intoxication "whippets" and a cracker and a ballon will be necessary. You can get the crackers whippets and ballons legally at head/tobacco shops.

[edit] Hippie Crack

This article formerly had this wording: due to some usage similarity to "crack" cocaine, it has come to be known colloquially as "hippie crack".

Although it is known as hippie crack, I don't know what 'usage similarity' means or how the way one uses crack could be similar to the way one uses cocaine. For example, one smokes crack whereas one inhales nitrous via balloon, inhalation mask or whip cream canister. However, my understanding has always been that H-crack refers to the drug's addiction potential (psychological rather than physical) . I believe some form of the language I have introduced instead will be more accurate.

Possibly this article could use more info on the history and current recreational uses of this drug, maybe in the form of an article fork. Thoughts? Kit O'Connell (Todfox: user / talk / contribs) 19:12, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

I was under the impression that the comparison to crack came from the quick onset and dissipation of the effects of nitrous, and the "hippie" part came from comparing the stereotypical nitrous user to the stereotypical crack cocaine user. —alxndr ^(t) 22:54, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, that's interesting. Its so hard to tell with slang. Maybe we can find some citations for one or the other or both. I agree about the hippie part of course but have heard a different reason for the crack part as I explained. It is definitely possible both are true. Maybe there is a good way to further adjust the wording. Kit O'Connell (Todfox: user / talk / contribs) 07:20, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

OK, a new definition has been placed in the article -- Hippie Crack now reflects both the purported psychological addictiveness of the substance as well as the short duration of effects -- both my definition and Alxandr's. How does this look now? Kit O'Connell (Todfox: user / talk / contribs) 21:30, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] less pharmacology/recreational focus please

The article seems to me rather disproportionate in its focus on recreational and pharmacological aspects. I suggest rearranging the sections a bit, as N2O is interesting for many other reasons and professions. For 'legality' I can't see for whom it is relevant enough to include here except the recreational users, so I suggest to relegate it to a subsection of the recreational use section. Neuropharmacology is also mostly relevant to the medical part (and in part for the recreational), and how about including this section under the medical uses? Jens Nielsen 20:31, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

I was looking for information on the synthesis of nitrous oxide (if anyone can help with that, please comment) and I found this article and another on studycrime.com and they're...pretty darn similar. Either the origins of this article come from the one at studycrime, or someone there copied this one over. Either way I felt like this should be brought to the community, so here's the link

http://www.studycrime.com/Schedule-VI-Controlled-Substances/Nitrous_oxide.php

I believe industrial manufacture is by controlled decomposition of ammonium nitrate (NH₄NO₃ -> 2H₂O + N₂O). I have a (hardcopy) reference paper on AN decomposition that includes more details of the reaction that I can find at some point (iirc, it has to be done at modest temperature and reduced pressure, to speed the reaction, ensure purity, and prevent explosion). Evand 19:18, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

I believe you're correct, but alas I don't have a citable reference on me for the moment. As a small scale lab demonstration, this works: you can show that nitrous oxide relights a glowing splint as does oxygen. Physchim62 (talk) 08:00, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Although slightly off topic, I thought it might add to the content of this article if N2O's use as a body building supplement was mentioned. This has been a recent trend in the body building community, supposedly for it's effect on the immune system, which leads to larger, faster gains in muscle mass.

[edit] PLEASE HELP ME

CAN ANYONE PLEASE TELL ME THE CLASS OF DRUG THAT NITROUS OXIDE IS?

Nitrous is regualted by the FDA but it is not scheduled nationally. In most areas nitrous possesion and sale is legal, however misuse is illegal, for more information www.erowid.org.

On the off chance that you're talking about pharmaceutical class, nitrous oxide is a general anesthetic, ATC code NO1AX13. Physchim62 (talk) 23:40, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

For recreational use, it is often classified as a dissociative. --Muugokszhiion 06:23, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nitrous oxide laws

Can anyone tell me what the laws againt nitrous oxide in australia,switzerland,england and USA (calafornia)

email:raven_blackness@hotmail.com please reply it a school assigment

Perhaps this link can help. --Muugokszhiion 18:08, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dangers of heating ammonium nitrate

According to the Wikipedia article on ammonium nitrate: Ammonium nitrate is an explosive in its purest form although it is an unusually insensitive one. Explosive properties become much more evident at elevated temperatures. When ammonium nitrate is fused and "boiled" to generate nitrous oxide it has been claimed to be as sensitive as dynamite at the ~240 C operating temperature. How badly this exothermic reaction can run away and reach detonation velocities (without proper temperature controls) has been demonstrated several times, most notably at the Ohio Chemical plant in Montreal in 1966.

This article goes on to include a list of catastrophic explosions involving the compound, including the Texas City disaster of 1947 (the worst industrial accident in US history, with at least 700 dead or missing.) Another case on a much smaller scale worth including here is of a botched attempt to make anhydrous ammonia for methamphetamine manufacture. [1] There was no need to heat the ammonium nitrate at all in this case; adding it to a sodium hydroxide solution would have generated its own heat and passed the desired anhydrous ammonia gas through the outtake hosing.

I'd hate to see people be killed or maimed in order to make their own intoxicants, let alone by being caught up in someone else's such actions.---BDH

[edit] Exothermic or not?

There seems to be a contradiction.

":NH₄NO₃ -> N₂O + 2H₂O + 58.6 kJ:

The addition of various phosphates favors formation of a purer gas. This reaction occurs at around 240°C, a temperature where ammonium nitrate is a moderately sensitive explosive and a very powerful oxidizer (perhaps on the order of fuming nitric acid). At temperatures much above 240°C the exothermic reaction may run away" Guinnog 06:17, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

What contradition are you referring to? NH₄NO₃ is highly explosive, and explodes (in an exothermic reaction, of course) with enough input energy (temperature). This source claims the reaction enthalpy is -36 KJ/mol, by the way. --Muugokszhiion 18:06, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

The contradiction is between the positive delta H and the exothermic claim. One is wrong. Guinnog 18:30, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Huh? The reaction shown lists 58.6 kJ energy as a product, ie the energy is released as part of the decomposition. I don't see a ΔH in there anywhere. I have a section of Nitric Acid and Fertilizer Nitrates by Shah and Roberts (hardcopy; I don't know if it's online anywhere) that lists ΔH = -8.8 kcal/mol (aka 36.8 kJ/mol released).

I see. How confusing. I'm used to the convention that a +ve ΔH denotes an endothermic reaction. Guinnog 23:55, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

A positive ∆H DOES denote an endothermic reaction, but an alternative notation is to write the ∆H as a positive number on one side of the reaction or another... on the reactants side for an endothermic reaction or on the products side for an exothermic reaction. They are not contradictory.

[edit] Nitrous oxide and hibernation

I have read somewhere of an experiment where they submitted rats to a nitrous oxide (If I remember well) rich atmosphere and they entered a hibernation-like phase, for many hours, with decreased thermal regulation, heart beat etc besides consuming very little oxygen. They recovered, with no apparent damage to their brain or body, a few hours after the gas was switched off. It also said that the effect was apparently due to the temporary deactivation of the mitochondria, perhaps pointing to a inherent protective mechanism. I can't remember the link or find it again. Does anyone know about this research? DSedrez 00:13, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Inhalation methods

Inhalation directly from a whipped-cream charger or a tank poses serious health risks, as it can cause the lungs to collapse from high levels of pressure, forcing air into the chest cavity, and can cause frostbite since the gas is very cold when released.

While this is true for direct inhalation off of a tank, inhalation from a whipped cream charger is quite different, as the bottle serves the same purpose as a balloon, mediating the pressure and temperature issues. I'm deleting the charger reference. El Mariachi 10:23, 5 June 2006 (UTC) Be careful about the usage of the term "charger". The charger refers to the metal container the compressed nitrous oxide is stored in, not the dispenser. The charger dispenses gas at high pressure and low temperature into a dispenser, from which it can be more safely consumed. Do not consume nitrous directly from a charger. 24.126.68.166 05:07, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Legality contradiction

Legality section first states not illegal to posses - then in second paragraph says it is. can someone confirm which is correct?202.36.134.22 00:33, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

The answer is highly dependent on jurisdiction, manner of packaging / sale, presence of adulterants, and intended use. I think the article does an acceptable job of explaining this. Do you have specific comments on the section or areas of confusion? Evand 16:27, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dipole moment

I'll put this here until the infobox is updated. Dipole moment of N₂O: μ = 0.166 D

Ben 23:32, 7 August 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Monopropellant Isp

I get that monopropellant Isp is only 180s, not 200s (100:1 expansion ratio nozzle, frozen equilibrium -- a fairly standard metric for a vacuum nozzle). Do you have a reference? Also, there's a bit of a difference between 180s and the 235s of a hydrazine thruster. And "Just add gaseous hydrogen" is true but fairly irrelevant -- gaseous hydrogen tankage is really heavy, so there is no case where that would improve things from a system performance standpoint. Evand 16:33, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New subpage for recreational use

I have begun drafting a subpage for recreational use of nitrous oxide, because I think the current page doesn't satisfy recreational users or chemists. The draft can be seen and edited at User:Lamontacranston/recreational. Currently it is a condensed version of the current article, but I imagine if the current article gets a "See also" listing "Recreational use of nitrous oxide" the main article will then be able to cut out a great deal of content that is only interesting or useful to recreational users. I think that this will make the page more accessible for most users as well as help users who are coming to this page just to learn about recreational use. Please feel free to edit the draft and comment on my proposal. Lamont A Cranston 23:48, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Good idea. There's a precedent, Non-medical use of dextromethorphan, which you could use as a model. —Keenan Pepper 02:33, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Another precedent would be Effects of alcohol on the body. We could easily have an Effects of nitrous oxide on the body page, combining the medical and recreational uses of the substance; after all, they are closely related. We could even aspire to having the car/motor sport stuff on a separate page too, just leaving the chemistry of N₂O (which is interesting enough) on this main article. Just a thought. --Guinnog 03:11, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the motorsports stuff should be on a subpage. I haven't made up my mind wether there should be separate medical and recreational pages. On one hand, they would overlap quite a bit (i.e., health concerns). On the other hand, where should "nitrous oxide use in popular culture" go? I'm leaning towards combining the two. Note for comparison that cannabis is a botany article; cannabis (drug) concerns recreational use, but has a section on medical use and a link to the article medical cannabis; and hemp describes non-drug cultivation and use. Lamont A Cranston 11:54, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

Anyone mind if I try my idea? --Guinnog 05:56, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Done. The new article could do with some work though. I do think it looks better though. --Guinnog 09:13, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New infobox

I'm adding a new chembox. I'll put the old one here for archival, in case any info is needed from it.

Ben 21:28, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

General
Name	Dinitrogen oxide
Chemical formula	N2O
Appearance	Colorless gas
Physical
Formula weight	44.0 u
Melting point	182.29 K (−90.86 °C)
Boiling point	184.67 K (−88.48 °C)
Critical temperature	309.6 K (36.4 °C)
Critical pressure	7.245 MPa
Density	1.2 g/cm3 (liquid)
Solubility	0.112 g in 100g water
Thermochemistry
ΔfH0gas	82.05 kJ/mol
ΔfH0liquid	? kJ/mol
ΔfH0solid	? kJ/mol
S0gas, 100 kPa	219.96 J/(mol·K)
S0liquid, 100 kPa	? J/(mol·K)
S0solid	? J/(mol·K)
Safety
Inhalation	See main text. May cause asphyxiation without warning.
Skin	Hazardous when cryogenic or compressed.
Eyes	Hazardous when cryogenic or compressed.
More info	Hazardous Chemical Database
SI units were used where possible. Unless otherwise stated, standard conditions were used. Disclaimer and references

This article is about nitrous oxide, also known as NOS or laughing gas. For other meanings of laughing gas, see the disambiguation page.

[edit] Merging back in Effects of nitrous oxide on the body

I'd like to suggest that Effects of nitrous oxide on the body be merged back into this article. While keeping all the info on N2O's use as a drug maybe wasn't that bad an idea in theory, it's pretty much a mess with medical and recreational uses discussed on both this page and that page, some having information that the other doesn't but should, and it's attracted a lot of cruft such as the humongous "popular culture" trivia section (do we really need to know every single time a fictional character uses nitrous?) and a "sexual fetish" section that reads like an advertisement for a specific yahoo group. I'd like to suggest that all useful info in that article be culled back into this one. Krimpet 03:06, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Since nobody has objected, I have completed the merge. Krimpet 05:40, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External link misdirects

According to Erowid.org, the Nitrous/Olney's Lesions link is not confirmed.

"Olney's Lesions: there is little to no evidence that Nitrous Oxide use causes the brain lesions described in William White's "This is your Brain on Dissociatives" and, without further evidence, this hypothesis should be considered invalid for Nitrous Oxide."

External link Nitrous Oxide chargers links to porn site www.amateurcurves.com.