User talk:Niohe/Archive 2

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Contents 1 Re: Strange page move 2 Snle 3 Manzhouri 4 Temple of Heaven 5 Lol 6 Image copyright problem with Image:Peking_legation_quarter.jpg 7 Postal 8 Re: Snle (again!) 9 Stuff 10 Highshines 11 Jurchens 12 Grand Council, and other things 13 about Cheng Qiang 14 Chinese surnames 15 == Нацагдорж Дашдоржийн== 16 Re: Highshines 17 The big portrait 18 Xinjiang 19 Treaty of Kyakhta 20 Shang Jiang Template 21 Qingdao map 22 re: Unequal Treaties 23 Xiao Xian Chun move 24 About Respect 25 Highshines

Re: Strange page move

I just restored the page. Another admin deleted the page in error, thinking it did not have a page history other than vandalism. I don't know why Proteus moved the page. Is he basing it from set standards for British nobility? I suppose we will just move it back if there's no explanation.--Jiang 03:36, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

I assume that it's fixed now. And yes, the conventions in WP:PEER say using the Baronetcy in the title is better than parenthetical disambiguation. Proteus (Talk) 08:28, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Snle

He's been permanently banned from editing Wikipedia, after the sockpuppetry was proven. In the meantime, please just ignore him, while I go to WP:RFCU (again). If he reverts the articles you should probably not revert him—just wait until we get the results. —Khoikhoi 00:08, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

It would actually be best if you didn't even do that (adding the {{unsigned}} tags is acknowledging his presence). Once his latest sockpuppet gets blocked, we can delete his comments (per WP:BAN). —Khoikhoi 00:20, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

:-) The only problem about checkuser is that it takes a few days... —Khoikhoi 00:26, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

No problem, as long as you don't talk to him. —Khoikhoi 00:29, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Sure, no problem. —Khoikhoi 00:35, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Manzhouri

Blocked. —Khoikhoi 05:02, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Arrrghhh, if he keeps this up we're going to have to semi-protect the talk pages... —Khoikhoi 02:42, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

You can't Niohe - you're not an admin. :-) Please go to WP:RPP instead. —Khoikhoi 03:06, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but simply adding the tags doesn't actually protect the page. You know a page is semi-protected when you see a note when you edit the page. Tyr editing George W. Bush and you will see what I'm talking about. Also you will know a page is semi-protected if you log-out and can't edit the page. —Khoikhoi 03:10, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I was actually suggesting semi-protection for the talk pages rather than the main articles (he seems to be more active there). —Khoikhoi 03:21, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

The problem is, semi-protection is only for articles that really need it. Just because he made one edit to an article today doesn't justify semi-protection. It might work for the talk pages, however. —Khoikhoi 03:26, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Sure, I'll do it right away. Ciao. —Khoikhoi 03:29, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Temple of Heaven

Wow, and from the National Library of Australia too (I'm rather proud) =D. I think the picture depicts the scene after 1911, because of the grass in the courtyard - I think the courtyard would have been paved - and weeded - before 1911.

This is quite a revelation. Originally I had thought all such signs were bilingual, but clearly the Temple of Heaven isn't today: [1].

The Xinhua article in the link above says the complex has been restored to its state in 1935, so I guess the removal of the Manchu name must have occurred during the Republican era. --Sumple (Talk) 23:27, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I was just watching a documentary, and it said that upon becoming Emperor (1915-1916) Yuan Shikai ordered the removal of Manchu inscriptions from all tablets (except for the Inner Court of the Forbidden City, which was still occupied by Puyi). My guess is that the Manchu was removed from the Temple of Heaven sign at the same time. --Sumple (Talk) 23:22, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Lol

Guess what Niohe? It turned out that Snle's sockpuppety is a lot worse then we thought...a lot worse, see Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Snle and Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Edipedia. :-) —Khoikhoi 00:42, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, now the only problem is who's going to block all these sockpuppets.... —Khoikhoi 01:13, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Haha Edipedia. Have fun. --Sumple (Talk) 04:17, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Peking_legation_quarter.jpg

Thanks for uploading Image:Peking_legation_quarter.jpg. The image has been identified as not specifying the copyright status of the image, which is required by Wikipedia's policy on images.If you don't indicate the copyright status of the image on the image's description page, using an appropriate copyright tag, it may be deleted some time in the next seven days.If you have uploaded other images, please verify that you have provided copyright information for them as well.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:

• Wikipedia:Image use policy
• Wikipedia:Image copyright tags

This is an automated notice by OrphanBot.For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. 07:06, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Fixed.--Niohe 13:15, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Postal

I'm neutral on what the page name should be moved to, however it's not appropriate to delete interwiki links, romanization examples, and categories like what you did in your last edit. --Yuje 01:27, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Re: Snle (again!)

Yes, now he's moved on to Azakhs (talk • contribs). I'll semi-protect Manchuria if he starts disrupting it, but for now, let's wait for the checkuser results. —Khoikhoi 19:01, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Arrrgh, me too. I'm just saying the page isn't being disrupted right now, but when it is, I promise you that I'll take action (I'm an admin as of two days ago). —Khoikhoi 19:07, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, but unfortunately "he'll come back next weekend" is not covered in Wikipedia:Protection policy. —Khoikhoi 19:16, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but I can't help you this time. :-( I'm just too busy... I see you've asked Jiang for help, have you tried ran? Khoikhoi 05:06, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Stuff

Hey Niohe! Heathzhao seems to have stopped... If he starts up again please let me know so I can block him. In the future, simply add {{subst:spam}} to his talk page. Regarding Snle–I actually saw that originally but I decided not to answer him. One thing you should learn is this: don't entertain him. Often the best solution when he tries to talk to you or ask questions is just ignore him. Even if User68732 isn't Snle, his (disruptive) behavior is so similar that IMO it warrents a blocking. I've placed {{TrollWarning}} so you'll know what to do next time. ;-) Cheers, Khoikhoi 05:33, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

No problem. :-) Let me know if he shows up again. Khoikhoi 21:19, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Highshines

I've blocked Highshines for one week and indefinitely blocked all the puppet accounts. Now we need to undo all the destruction they did. --Jiang 05:46, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Jurchens

Please see the discussion....--Hairwizard91 03:37, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

Do you think that the origin of Jurchen is original research? If I find the secondary sources, is it possible to add it ? Please reply to me. --Hairwizard91 03:44, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

.... Beware of Hairwizard91, he is a Korean nationalist, check out his edit history, he's obviously pushing his own POV. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.166.226.1 (talk)

Grand Council, and other things

Hey, sorry for the late reply. I'm officially back from "break" for a day, will be gone for most of the next week... Anyhow, thanks for sending me the stuff on the Conseil Supreme de l'Empire (hope I spelt that right...) I thought it was also interesting how they put (Kiun-ki-tchou) after it =D. Also, thanks for helping to stamp out sockpuppetry on China. --Sumple (Talk) 06:15, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the notice. In case you wondered where I've been for the last month or so, I've been behind the iron curtain. --Sumple (Talk) 02:59, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

about Cheng Qiang

Thanks for your concern with my debate with User:Ksyrie on China proper.It seems to me "Cheng Qiang" is an original translation for City wall.I think that it should be moved to "Chinese city wall" or "City wall in China". --Neo-Jay 18:49, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your contributions. --Neo-Jay 19:57, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I've edited this page somewhat. Take a look when you have time. --Sumple (Talk) 03:00, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Done. Now give me a moment to merge the edit histories of the talk pages. Khoikhoi 19:38, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

...and done! Cheers, Khoikhoi 19:44, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

you are right,you know,sometimes,when trying to introduce somethings genuine,we often turn out to be inefficient to get the right name.As you have found the use of Chinese city wall,I won't persist.Ksyrie

Try WP:AN/3RR (I'm too busy right now, sorry). Khoikhoi 00:52, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Chinese surnames

Started sub-page at User:Sumple/Surnames. Take a look when you are free :D --Sumple (Talk) 00:00, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

== Нацагдорж Дашдоржийн==

Could you please have some patience and allow me to create an article, without it being tagged as one that should be speedily deleted?--Niohe 05:36, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Dashdorjiin_Natsagdorj will give it some time 74.241.140.49 05:39, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

Re: Highshines

I'm going to be busy for the next couple days or so, but try to undo what he's done and let me know if he starts reverting you. I'll try to be more active again once my finals are over...--Jiang 17:29, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

(to Niohe) I'm really not sure what policy he is violating. I can't just block him for "disruption". Should I protect the page instead? Khoikhoi 06:05, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm. Why don't you try posting something about it at WP:AN/I? You could also ask User:ran for help. Unfortunately, I do not have time at the moment to get into new disputes, as I'm trying to spend some time away from Wikipedia right now. I do think you have a case however. Khoikhoi 22:35, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

The big portrait

Highshines, I have said that the big portrait doesn't look genuine. Now instead of reinserting it, can you please provide us with a credible source of this picture, or you will have it removed by me or any other editor that does not believe the picture is genuine.--Niohe 00:35, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Besides, Highshines, could you please stop sneaky editing of pages, i.e. making major edits without any edit summary and/or with the m tag. This is exactly the way you used to edit pages with sock puppets before and if you want people to take your edits seriously again, you better make an effort to earn back some credibility.--Niohe 00:41, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Highshines, in your most recent edit summary, you wrote: "If you want me to prove the authenticity of the portrait, you have to prove it to be not authentic first."

I hope you realize that the burden of proof is on you, not me. Wikipedia policy states: "The burden of evidence lies with the editor who adds or restores material. Any material that is challenged or likely to be challenged needs a reliable source, which should be cited in the article."

Please give some evidence of the provenance of that painting. To me, it looks like a fairly recent artists' impression of this portrait. If you don't come up with some source, I will keep deleting the picture.--Niohe 01:23, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

To continue on the topic of vandalism, Wikipedia policy states: "Repeatedly uploading images with no source and/or license information after notification that such information is required may also constitute vandalism."

I advise you to respond to all of the above.--Niohe 01:37, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Go to the Wikimedia Commons of "Empress Dowager Ci'an" and you will find the original portrait, or if you have looked at the article with enough care, you would have found the original portrait on the article. Highshines 03:24, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

You said something about "repeatedly uploading images with no source and/or license information after notification that such information is required". I don't know whom that is referring to. I don't remember doing so. If it is referring to me, please provide some instances when I "repeatedly uploaded images with no source and/or license information after notification that such information is required". Highshines 04:23, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

I admit that I sometimes edited some pages without a summary. That's because I wasn't accustomed of doing so. I think in the future I will remember filling out a summary. Highshines 04:35, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

In addition, you should be aware of arbitary personalities assault, such as calling people "sneaky". Highshines 04:38, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

Xinjiang

I think you are confused with two terms Western Regions in the historic background,and Western China in nowadays use.Please donn't revert more my edit.--Ksyrie 03:05, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your message. I'm not confused at all and I can change your edits as much as I like. You just edited Western Regions and created the article Western China, so referring to them as proof of your position is just a tautological. As for the actual question, why should we privilege the historical record of China when we talk about Xinjiang and go as far back as to the 3rd century AD? Why don't we mention every single name in every possible language that has been related to Xinjiang as well? And what sense does it make to talk about the Qing conquest of Xinjiang as a "reconquest" or whatever?--Niohe 03:38, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

as you have said, what's the purpose to reinforce Chinese Turkestan or East Turkestan in this article?If you found this name useless,I will be very glad to see Turkestan and Western Regions all dispear in this article.--Ksyrie 04:02, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I think I didn't make me clear.see the phrase relating it: Historically, Historically,Turkestan or East Turkestan.So if you think all the historic name shouldn't be mentioned,why not delete the Turkestan also?--Ksyrie 04:21, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

For the Reconquest,it's that Qing's conquest was not the first time the conquest de Chinese Empire.So I made Re.--Ksyrie 04:25, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

To begin with, East Turkestan cotresponds exactly to Xinjiang and it was a term that has long been in use in the English language. Just check any map of China which is more than 50 years old. In contrast, Xiyuis an ambiguous term that only partly correspond to the territory of Xinjiang. Not only that, the term is separated from the Qing conquest of Xinjiang with more than a millenium. To add a reference to "Western regions" in the head paragraph of Xinjiang can only serve the purpose to make Chinese rule over Xinjiang look more continuous than it actually is, which is a clear case of WP:WEASEL we don't need in a controversial article.

On a different note, it would be nice if you could pay more attention to spelling, grammar and puncutation in your edits. In English, you leave a blank space after comma and period.--Niohe 16:28, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I know what you want to say, but all the name change a lot during the time. Turkestan shouldn't be the first name for this area, and maynot be the last at all. What's more, it's the meaning ofTurkestan, which litterally means the Land of the Turks, so it gives others un impression that no other peoples living there. But in fact this area was once populated by all the different people including some iranians, some indo-european speaker yuezhi, some chinese, some mongolians etc. It's very clear that nowadays the majority of population there speak Turkic languages, but not all--Ksyrie 17:03, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

What's more the nameTurkestan just give some Uyghurs a very good pretext to extinguish all the non-turkic speaker in this area. The Uyghur should be respected, but they shouldn't target other ethnic groups.--Ksyrie 17:16, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you want to say here. We are not here to decide what is the most appropriate name for the region of Xinjiang and your point that Xinjiang is not only populated by Turkic speaking peoples is well taken. This is not about what is true, but what is verifiable, and it is clearly a verifiable fact that a lot of people have called Xinjiang "East Turkestan" regardless of the demographics.--Niohe 18:36, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

I also cann't find your reasonable reason for deleting the Western Regions.Xinjiang is a majority turkish-speaking area,so we may call it turkestan,but it also had some period of chinese domination.You cann't confirm one point while neglecting other point which isalso true. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ksyrie (talk • contribs) 21:36, 8 January 2007 (UTC).

The Han Western regions were much larger than Xinjiang and were removed by 1800 years from now. Shall we include every single possible name that was used before Qing rule was imposed? Why should Chinese be given preference over Sogdian or other central Asian languages? You can include a reference to Western Regions in the history section instead.

Besides, if you want editors to take your contributions seriously, you might want to try to pay attention to proper spelling and punctuation. You can't write "cann't".--Niohe 00:46, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Xinjiang is part of historic turkstan,and also part of historic western regions.Be neutral.--Ksyrie 14:06, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

I'm trying to be neutral, that's why Western regions is uncalled for in the first paragraph of the article. East Turkestan is different, because it is a term that is still widely in use. Anyway, you haven't really responded to my arguments and I'm loath to repeat myself. Please continue the discussion at Talk:Xinjiang#Western_Regions_vs._Xinjiang.--Niohe 02:21, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

you are not even a little neutral,western regions are also widely used.Why not,you can just make a subtitle of maybe the other names ever used for Xinjiang,I don't mind,I think all the people won't be unhappy to see the enriched articles.Just Keep a little respect from the people all over the world.--Ksyrie 04:39, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

??? --Niohe 04:57, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

you may have more time to keep the eye on this article,I really donn't want to report to an administrator to make a coordination for your frequent vandalist actions.Xinjiang is a very beautiful place,I am so glad to see someone like you so interesting in this place.But just keep it in your heart,this place was never a single ethnic area,a dozens of different people once lived there.Turkestan may imply somethings about it,but it's not all.Since you find Sogdian may have lived there,why not just make a phrase in this article?(I am not sure whether the Sogdian really live in the extent of Xinjiang,maybe in Khazakstan.--Ksyrie 05:15, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Once again, watch your words. Until you provide me with a credible source for your claim that "Western Regions" is a common name for Xinjiang, I have every right to remove it without being accused of vandalism. You on the other hand should keep in mind to be civil or you may be reported to an administrator.--Niohe 12:45, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Wow, didn't realise there was a whole other convo here! LOL. Anyway, interesting debate. It's a common misconception in China that Han-Dynasty Xiyu = modern Xinjiang. But then, if anyone sat down and thought about it, everyone knows that Li Bai was born in the Xiyu but certainly not in Xinjiang (or within the obrders of modern China). Anyway, I hope my opinion helps. --Sumple (Talk) 23:02, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Treaty of Kyakhta

I'm sorry that you should feel offended by my move, but I saw no need for a long discussion about what was merely a spelling correction.Your examples for other Chinese treaties do not appear relevant.Both were based on place names in China with obsolete romanizations.In the present case the treaty was with Russia at a town in Russia, so a modern transliteration for a Russian treaty seems appropriate. Eclecticology 23:35, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Shang Jiang Template

Hi, thank you for your concern. The thing is, there are actually pages dealing specifically with Chinese military ranks. I suggest telling the reader that 'Shang Jiang' is the highest rank attainable in the first paragraph of every Shang Jiang article. Plus, if the reader is interested in what Shang Jiang is equivalent to in English, they may always check out Shang Jiang as linked in the template. Hanfresco 08:23, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Qingdao map

Glad you liked it. It was done with Inkscape. Using Inkscape, you can open a jpg file, lock the layer it's in, then create new layers to hold sets of map elements which you create by tracing over lines in the jpg file at an appropriately high magnification. I also used it to re-letter the map Image:Somerset_Coalfield_Clipped.jpg. William Avery 13:05, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

re: Unequal Treaties

Hey, I'm sorry about this silly page move thing.I think I must have made some error in reading Fairbank, and acted too quickly based on that.Fortunately, I was able to reverse the problem, and correct the redirects, so we should be fine.See my response on the talk page of the article for more. I will be more careful to achieve consensus on these issues in the future.--Danaman5 03:17, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Xiao Xian Chun move

Your move proposal has been formatted at Talk:Xiao Xian Chun if you care to vote. —  AjaxSmack  07:31, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

About Respect

Check your behavior in removing the Western Regions part in Xinjiang.I had expressed my POV,and it's you who revert my edits.I just give them back.It's really a kind of vandal for your bahavior in removing other's voice without a sound ground.--Ksyrie 18:01, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

In order to be constructive,I would put forward my idea.The name of Xinjiang is always somethings very sensitive and political.So,a balanced opinion from all the parties(ethnics,national,international,historical) is required.It's not helpful to just mention one historic name while omiting others.I had suggested you many times for you to find and write down some names politically sensitive from all the parties.Just check some disputed land like Falkland Islands.--Ksyrie 22:20, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Highshines

Sorry Niohe, but you need more than 3 reverts in 24 hours to have a violation. Read the policy. Sorry, Khoikhoi 09:32, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

If he has broken 3RR with his account & IPs on a page, please let me know. As for the comment, It's definately incivil, but I don't think we can call it a personal attack or anything like that. Khoikhoi 05:46, 19 January 2007 (UTC)