Talk:Niger

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[edit] NPOV concern

I'd like to re-raise the concern I expressed earlier about the section on the current food crisis in Niger. I made edits last week with a discussion of my rationale on this talk page, but my edits were reverted without any explanation.

So I'd like to reiterate my concerns.

1) I don't believe a lenghty discussion of a current event belongs on a country page like this. A pointer to a separate page seems more appropriate, and a very good one already exists (2005 Niger food crisis).

2) The paragraph on the Niger page discussing the 2005 crisis contains factual errors and contradicts some of the facts in the expanded article which it points to. For example, the Niger comments refer to the crisis as a "famine", while the Crisis article says that it does not meet the defintion of a famine.

3) I think that criticizing the lack of aid by "rich nations" violates the principles of NPOV. The use of words like "appalingly" expresses an underlying political philosophy, particularly when one chooses to list just one of the factors contributing to the crisis. The lack of response may be worthy of note, but by omittting the other (arguably more significant) causes, it becomes more of an editorial commentary and less of a factual report. Again, the longer article on the crisis does a better job of laying out all of the facts in a balanced context.

4) Furthermore, if Doctors without Borders and the UN World Food Program have made the charge that is attributed to them here, a direct quote or a linked citation should be included. That could go on the 2005 Niger food crisis page, and proper attribution makes it NPOV compliant (in my opinion).

--Anson2995 17:04, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

Agree that the intro is not POV - have toned it down a bit, please discuss further on the talk page. Greenman 09:37, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
Thanks, Greenman, that addresses the POV concerns I had. The first sentence is still incorrect, because it calls the situation a famine. As the 2005 Niger food crisis article points out, this situation would be classified as a "food crisis" based on the famine scales. I have changed the wording to reflect that. I guess the only other concern I have is as to form. Should a current event be documented on a country page like this? I'll yield to the consensus opinion on that one, but it seems out of place to me. --Anson2995 19:36, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Niger and Nigeria

Are these 2 country names really related?? 66.245.112.204 00:15, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Both names are derived from the name of the river Niger. --S Baier 17:58, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

Otherwise, the countries are very different - there are many ethnic groups in Nigeria. Of the four dominant groups in Niger, only the Hausa have any large-scale representation in Nigeria. --S Baier 17:55, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pronunciation

I don't understand why GreatGatsby deleted the correct pronunciation of Niger and replaced it with the incorrect "nigh-ZEER". It should be "knee-ZHAIR" or "NIGH-jer", the former being better (but not necessarily commoner). See Dictionary.com/Niger. He also deleted the explanation of the adjective Nigerien, which is pronounced "knee-ZHAIR-ee-an" (better) or "nigh-JEER-ee-an" and should not be confused with Nigerian for Nigeria. I have reverted the deletion. Any ideas? - TAKASUGI Shinji 04:26, 2005 Mar 18 (UTC)

He did it again. This is the third time.
By the way, which is easier for you guys to understand, "knee-ZHAIR" or "nee-ZHAIR"? I have avoided the latter because the English word nee is pronounced "nay". "Knee" gives the correct pronunciation, but the "k" in it might be confusing for non-English speakers. - TAKASUGI Shinji 00:18, 2005 Mar 23 (UTC)
I read an article in the Boston Globe about commonly mispronounced country names and Niger appeared and the pronounciation "nigh-ZEER" was given, and the only other pronounciation mentioned was the more commonly used one. I have never come across your alternate pronounciation. - GreatGatsby
Boston Globe must be wrong. Other than Dictionary.com/Niger, please check the following sites too:
They all list "knee-ZHAIR", as well as "NIGH-jer". There is no source (except the Boston Globe article you read) that gives "nigh-ZEER". I'll revert your change, okay? - TAKASUGI Shinji 04:49, 2005 Mar 23 (UTC)
Knee-zhair would be [ni:dzEr] in IPA I think, and nigh-jer is [naidzʌ]. The latter is also the pronunciation in Latin, where niger means black. Dylanwhs 08:21, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
"Zh" is commonly used in American dictionaries for [ʒ], the "z" in azure [ˈæʒɝ]. Niger is pronounced either [niːˈʒɛɹ] or [ˈnaɪʤɝ], which can be written as "nee-ZHAIR" and "NIGH-jer" respectively for non-linguists. - TAKASUGI Shinji 09:10, 2005 Mar 23 (UTC)
Do you mean the "Zh" as the same sound the "s" in "leisure" and "asia"? Like the "Zh" in pinyin? I've always heard NIGH-jer. I'd write it nai-jur phonetically, though. Is there a proper way to write words phonetically in English without special symbols? I'd really like to know because I'm writing a book and I made up names in it. JeremyJX 15:53, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

I found this article *(http://www.slate.com/id/2085735/) that says Niger is prounouced (nee-ZHER). I tend to agree that the silent k isn't needed for showing how to prounounce it. We wouldn't type (gnee-ZHER) either.

[edit] People mispronouncing Niger

This might not be relevant, but I want to share it with everyone. Today at work, a co-worker read the paper and thought the country "Niger" was pronounced like the n-word. Thoughts? Comments? JeremyJX 15:55, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

"knee-ZHAIR", as well as "NIGH-jer" seem to be the best bets on English pronounciation. Quicksilvre 02:16, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes, some of my schoolmates joked about it the other day, but here in Brasil people tend to spell Niger correctly. Cheiro de Lysoform

[edit] Nigeriens pronouncing Niger

I spent three years in Niger as a Peace Corps volunteer and doing Ph.D. research, and here is the deal on pronunciation: in Niger one says "knee-ZHAIR", following the French pronunciation - any resident of the country says this, as does anyone educated in French (France, Canada, etc.). This is strictly speaking the correct pronunciation. However sometimes you hear "NIGH-djer" in English, analogous to Nigeria.

Residents are Nigérien(s) [male] and Nigérienne(s) [female]. Sjrbaier 04:02, 7 March 2006 (UTC)


I was in the Peace Corps Niger as well. Providing additional information on pronunciation: "knee-JHAIR," with the "JH" sound as in the name "Jacques." Gholmes 20:02, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Geography

According to the article, "Niger borders seven countries on all sides and has a total of 5,697 km of borders. The longest border is Chad to the east, at 1,175 km. This is followed by Nigeria to the south (1,497 km)." This can't possibly be true; which is it? Quicksilvre 02:16, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The 2005 Niger food crisis

I've added a brief pargraph near the beginning of the article briefly acknowledging the current famine situation in Niger, including an internal link to Wikipedia's seperate (and well-written) article on the subject.

I mentioned the subject of what's been called the West's total failure to respond early enough to the crisis. I know that's harsh, but I'm hoping nobody thinks I'm violating NPOV, since I cite a couple of aid organizations that themselves are leveling those charges (and backing them up).

--Brent 08:41, 5 August 2005 (UTC)


I think there are a couple of problems with the text you added, including the charge that "Among many factors contributing to the famine, the most preventable has been a slow response to the crisis by the world's rich nations." While the inadequate response may indeed be a significant problem, your paragraph implies that indifference is the main cause. As the article you linked to explains, the root problem is inadequate rainfall and crops damged by locusts. I think that omitting that fact while criticizing the slow response is very misleading, and certainly not NPOV.
You also described it as "a catastrophic famine currently devastating localized parts of Niger and neighboring Mali." Yet the article you linked to says "the crisis, while locally severe, had not reached the level of famine according to famine scales." This is another inconsistencey that I think strains the idea of a neutral viewpoint.
I think your points would better be made in the article on the 2005 crisis, rather than the general entry for the country.
--Anson2995 20:03, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Wikify

Any reason why the wikify notice was removed? The article still does not make use of the standard country template. Greenman 09:43, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Have replaced the tag until there's an explanation. Greenman 09:37, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] School attendance

"School attendance is 50%, including 38% of males and only 27% of females." What is the mysterious third gender that's pulling the average up? --Reuben 21:10, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

Since many african countries have low life expectancy, maybe this means 50% of the total population. --repeat and persistant vandal

Um, you realize that makes no sense as an answer to the question, right? I think something's wrong with the school attendance statistics. --Reuben 05:43, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
Have updated stats, with references Greenman 09:37, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
Excellent. Thanks for the good research, Greenman. --Reuben 18:41, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Adjective

What is the adjective that means "of or pertaining to Niger"? And, consequently, how are its citizens called? I think we should have these on all the country pages. Weasel

Issue resolved:

Nigérien(s) (ni:ZerLE~^). It's funny tho that English doesn't have a word of its own.

see: SAMPA chart

Cheers, Weasel

[edit] Offical language

Is french the only official or are the others listed in the offical lang. box as well. Fabhcún 10:04, August 31, 2005 (UTC) Could there be a list of commonly spoken languages such as hausa and fulfulde? Cheers. K

[edit] Images

I've introduced some images into the page as they were sorely needed but I still think this page needs to be cleaned up by anyone interested or who has the time. A more concise history section is needed, the same going for the economy section. Jaw101ie 12:37, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] majority of this page lifted verbatim from U.S. State Dept.

I took a look at this page, and then took a look at the U.S. State Department's summary of Niger, and huge chunks of this wiki (i.e. the history, politics, economy, economic reform, foreign aid, foreign relations, defense, and demographic sections) are pretty much lifted wholesale and verbatim from the State Dept's "Background Notes". (scroll down to Niger link; I can't get the actual Niger page to link here for some reason). Seems like more sources would be a good idea, otherwise this wiki isn't contributing much to the body of information on Niger. Also, shouldn't verbatim lifting of entire paragraphs and sections be attributed in wikis? -Conifertree 17 Sept. 06

Good catch. Here are the edits in which the material was added. [1]. U.S. government material is automatically public domain, but it should still be credited. I'll add an attribution at the end, feel free to improve it. -Will Beback 00:49, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

But my other point is -- if people are simply lifting huge chunks of government text on a subject for this wiki, what is the point? What is the value? Huge editing is needed, and this wiki should reflect multiple sources, not just the U.S. government's take on Niger. (I do not have time to do this). At this point, there should be no text in this wiki, just a hyperlink to the U.S. Department of State's background notes on Niger. That's all this wiki is, essentially. -Conifertree, 9 Oct. 2006

[edit] food crisis

Before invasion of Africa by colonial powers, the population was in harmony with the environment and sustainable: ie the number of people accurately and by defualt reflected the carrying capacity of the land and the tendency (by cultural aggreement) for the tribes to go to war. A stable situation. The well-meaning behaviour of colonial powers who themselves were ignorant of ecology casued several froms of disruption: disallowed tribal warfare; disallowed birth control (RC church), improved survival by introducing antibiosis and immunisation and hygiene while doing nothing to curb birth rate. This has resulted in a population explsion. combine this with poor farming practice, influx of arms, and corruption among our leaders, break-dwon of infrastructrue, etc, etc and the result is widespread famine. Meanwhile the wellmeaning west squeaks onward about 'elimination of poverty.' The real solution is radical curbing of the poplation growth, ie birth control. Signed: an African


[edit] Slavery

this is out of place, as slavery is not an aspect of the economy, this sounds like a social issue or a human rights issue.--HalaTruth(ሐላቃህ) 13:39, 7 February 2007 (UTC) The head of the government's National Commission for Human Rights and Fundamental Liberation claims that slavery does not exist, saying "Even if they have no salary, they refuse to leave the master because they are at ease with the master;" but foreign journalists report that, according to claims by opposition lawmakers, "about 10% of the members of parliament keep slaves or are from slave-owning families." [2][3]

[edit] Early history

Where is the early history, did niger start with colonialism?--HalaTruth(ሐላቃህ) 13:37, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] sprotect?

Should we consider protecting this article? While there are occasional good edits from IP addresses, this page is a major target of vandalism. If anyone else agrees, I would like to consider compiling some statistics on vandalism and taking the page to WP:RPP to ask for permanent semiprotection. bikeable (talk) 20:36, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

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