Talk:Nguyen Phuc Buu Chanh

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[edit] This Page Needs Cleaned Up

In the first place, there are absolutely no sources given for any of this information, even if you go to the trouble to track down the website of his "league" it has not been updated in a year or two. None of the questions raised on the previous discussion page as to why this man is notable for inclusion in an encyclopedia have been answered (group's budget, numbers, activities, publications etc -nothing). Especially given the efforts (shown on the previous talk page) to exaggerate importance (such as the Medal of Freedom stuff) It is not unreasonable to ask for some serious documentation to prove this is not just a vanity post or a political advertisement.

The history section showing that he had one day retired because of poor health, only to recover & resume his post a few days later seems somewhat odd -and again no source for this information was given. The article states, "To this day, Buu Chanh continues to serve Vietnamese citizens as the President of the Vietnamese Constitutional Monarchist League." I would ask exactly how the citizens of the Socialist Republic of Vietnam are being served by this man and his monarchist activities? What has he done to help people in Vietnam? Examples and sources please.

The first quote given is an outright lie. That quote, "To be born free is an accident; To live free a responsibility; To die free is an obligation" is from Hubbard Davis and can be found in almost any list of quotations.

The category list seems a blatant effort at advertisement, trying to get links from as many places as possible. "Vietnam War people" -exactly what was his role in the war being as the info given says he was a government clerk? "Civil rights activists" -exactly how is pushing for a monarchy civil rights work? Whose civil rights is he advocating for with his work, royals? I suppose national liberation movements is open to interpretation, but many, many people would say that Vietnam has already been liberated (it is not under foreign rule) nor would they consider the return of the emperors "liberating". He is not involved in "Politics of Vietnam" as Vietnam allows no parties but the Communist Party, besides which he lives in the USA, I also see nothing in the article which would qualify him to be called a "US political figure". Has he been elected to an office?

Without some serious clean-up, verifiable sources and fact checking this page should be deleted. NguyenHue 23:25, 5 December 2005 (UTC)NguyenHue

[edit] Exiled Leader of VCML

YOUR STATEMENT: He is not involved in "Politics of Vietnam" as Vietnam allows no parties but the Communist Party, besides which he lives in the USA, I also see nothing in the article which would qualify him to be called a "US political figure". Has he been elected to an office?

NOTE 1: Alot of ANTI-Communist organizations are located in the United States that do not agree with the current Communist Regime in Vietnam.

Please note: Nguyen Khanh the Chief of State of the Government of Free Vietnam

Chief of State (General) Nguyen Khanh is exiled from Vietnam.


Please note: People's Action Party of Vietnam

Please note: Cambodian - Cambodian Freedom Fighters

NOTE 2: Also there are alot of Cuban organizations that are located in the United States that do not agree wtih the currnet Communist Regime in Cuba.

NOTE 3:The reasons why these organizations are not located in their specific country where they want the government to reform policially is because there is NO FREEDOM of speech.

Please note: KC-702

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/1357033.stm

Please note: Coordination of United Revolutionary Organizations

Please note: Nguyen Si Binh was born in South Vietnam. He is a Vietnamese American and serves as the Chairman of the People's Action Party of Vietnam

NOTE 4:ANTI-Government organizations have the right here in the United States to help the people in their country any way they can and one way is FREEDOM OF SPEECH, via internet, letters to senators, congressmen, Presidents, or the United Nations or Non-Government agencies like Human Rights Watch.

Please note: Ly Tong

EXAMPLE 1: The Vietnamese Constitutional Monarchist League challeges the Government of Vietnam to provide Religious Freedom. Please note the extensive information that has been collected by President Buu Chanh and the Vietnamese Constitutional Monarchist League of photos of Vietnamese Citizens that have been arrested, and jailed for their political or religious beliefs all their photos are shown on the right hand side of the news release.

EXAMPLE 1 Link: http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/12/prweb184420.php

EXAMPLE 2: President Buu Chanh with Vietnamese-Americans that support the Vietnamese Consitutional Monarchist League. Cao Dai religious leaders in California and Vietnamese Americans supporters:

EXAMPLE 2 source: http://www.thienlybuutoa.org/Uni/SinhHoat/10-2003B.htm

EXAMPLE 3: This article shows that President Buu Chanh has taken a stance of POW-MIA matters and the admittance of if Vietnam's should be admitted to the WTO. Prince Blasts Communist Vietnam on POW-MIA Matters

EXAMPLE 3 source: http://www.aiipowmia.com/inter24/in130904princevn.html

EXAMPLE 4: The Vietnamese Constitutional Monarchist League of Vietnam opposes the Communist Government of Vietnam

EXAMPLE 4 source: http://www.prweb.com/releases/2004/7/prwebxml143720.php

EXAMPLE 5: This show the members of the ARVN South Vietnam's military showing support for the Vietnamese Constitutional Monarchist League and President Buu Chanh. The Army of the Republic of Vietnam (ARVN ) stands firmly with Prince Buu Chanh

EXAMPLE 5 source: http://thaoha.free.fr/PrinceBuuChanh_RVNArmay.html

YOUR STATEMENT: "Vietnam War people" -exactly what was his role in the war being as the info given says he was a government clerk?

EXAMPLE 1: General Director of the 4th Tactic Zone at the Ministry of Economy, to me does not translate as a governmental clerk. General Director of the Ministry of Economy of South Vietnam is relevant during his service as a "Vietnam War People"

Please note: Kok Ksor

Please note: Nguyen Huu Chanh

YOUR STATEMENT: "To be born free is an accident; To live free a responsibility; To die free is an obligation" is from Hubbard Davis and can be found in almost any list of quotations.

EXAMPLE 1: That "Quote" was provided by the website or President Buu Chanh, it does sound familiar to a Hubbard Davis quote so if you have verified it, or someone else then it should be removed.

YOUR STATEMENT: "Civil rights activists" -exactly how is pushing for a monarchy civil rights work? Whose civil rights is he advocating for with his work, royals?

EXAMPLE 1: From reading the biography of President Nguyen Phuc Buu Chanh he is affilated with the royal family of Vietnam, the royal family of Thailand conduct alot of civil rights and and affilate themselves with organization that help people. Other royals that are not asian are Queen Noor of Jordan and Diana, Princess of Wales that have contributed during their lifetime and continue concerning health and welfare, civil rights pertaining to women, or people in general.

YOUR STATEMENT: I suppose national liberation movements is open to interpretation, but many, many people would say that Vietnam has already been liberated (it is not under foreign rule) nor would they consider the return of the emperors "liberating".

Please note: Chhun Yasith (aka Cambodian Moses)

Please note: Ly Tong also ARVN soldiers exiled in the United States support President Buu Chanh to free Ly Tong and provide democracy in Vietnam:

http://thaoha.free.fr/PrinceBuuChanh_RVNArmay.html

Please note: Nguyen Khanh the Chief of State of the Government of Free Vietnam

EXAMPLE 1: The President Buu Chanh is not advocating a return of absolute monarchy to Vietnam. President Buu Chanh would like the Vietnamese Consitutional Monarchist League as well as other Democratic exiled parties (ie. People's Action Party of Vietnam) to be allowed to campaign openly in Vietnam. The Government of Vietnam should allow the people to chose their form of government in a election (ie. Government of Free Vietnam) . President Buu Chanh would like to have a government like Cambodia where Communists, Monarchists, Socialists, Democrates or other parties with different platforms to campaign and allow the democratic process occur as it has in Iraq with the help of the United States and its allies (ie. United Kingdom, Denmark, Poland and etc.)

Please note: The power of Democratic change by Democratic Nations take action when a Dictator is in charge and there has not been any political change besides a ONE-Party system (such as in Vietnam since 1975).

The Result http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coalition_of_the_Willing#List_of_nations_in_the_Coalition

Please note: Dr. Nguyen Xuan Ngai

Please note: People's Action Party of Vietnam

Bnguyen 04:51, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] You Talk Alot But Say Little

Let's go through this little tirade point by point:

Point 1: You can list all the South Vietnam relics you want to, but the fact is they are NOT involved in Vietnamese politics. They are not in Vietnam, they have nothing to do with the Vietnamese government nor are they recognized as a government-in-exile by any nation on earth. The United States, in which they operate, has diplomatic relations with the Socialist Republic of Vietnam and recognizes and deals with the people in Hanoi as the legitimate government of Vietnam. These pretenders are not a Vietnamese government, no matter what they call themselves, and are nothing more than social groups for reactionary Vietnamese-Americans. They have nothing to do with politics in Vietnam or the United States.

Point 2: This article has nothing to do with Cuba nor the Cuban-Americans in Miami have anything to do with politics in Cuba. They can disagree all they want but they have no role whatsoever in the political life of Cuba.

Point 3: That is a matter of opinion, but it still does not justify the claim that these enemies of the Vietnamese government have anything to do with Vietnamese politics.

Point 4: The right of people to get together and bash the Vietnamese government is not an issue here. You still have not explained how these are Vietnamese political groups. Vietnamese-American pressure group maybe? How have they helped the people in Vietnam as you say? Your examples are a sorry excuse. Anyone can express outrage about something; it doesn't make them apart of the effort being opposed, all your examples take is a google search and someone with alot of time on their hands. Show me how these proclamations of his had any impact on the subject matter and you might make some progress in convincing people this guy matters.

Oh, and showing some veterans shaking hands with someone CAN NOT be taken to mean that the claims and pretensions of this man have been expected by the entire Army of the Republic of Vietnam. That is misleading way past the point of dishonesty.

Point 5: Please explain then exactly what he did that was a contribution to the war in Vietnam. For that matter you might explain exactly what his duties were at all.

Point 6: As I said, simply check any online list of quotations and you will find it. If it came from his website it is simply another bit of evidence that your buddies have a problem telling the truth.

Point 7: Stop with the useless name-dropping. Show me a picture of your master with the King of Thailand or else stop trying to squeeze in with the crowd of legitimate royals. You still did not answer the question: what exactly has he done to advance the civil rights of anyone? Concretely, give some examples. Don't just avoid the issue by saying other royals did it, this article is not about Queen Noor or Princess Di.

Point 8: Once again you are being extremely dishonest in claiming that a few people in a photo op constitutes the unqualified support and recognition of all South Vietnamese veterans. I also see you have started calling him "President Buu Chanh" now, the champion of democracy. What happened to "His Imperial Highness, Prince-Regent"? He would not need to pretend he is royalty if his only goal was multi-party democracy in Vietnam, nor would he howl so much when questioned on this subject of his "imperial" status if the people were his only concern.

NguyenHue 03:39, 30 March 2006 (UTC)NguyenHue


[edit] President of Exile Group wanting Democracy in Vietnam

First to make comments live you did above is not professional "You Talk Alot But Say Little"

Well, I am speaking from the Vietnamese Community that I live in California.

The strenght in the Vietnamese Community here for Democracy in Vietnam is strong and the majority of Vietnamese support the Government of Free Vietnam, and other Vietnamese .

All the articles I presented are here on wikipedia and are worthy to be researched and known my people that are interested in politics in and out of their country.

Nguyen Khanh the Chief of State of the Government of Free Vietnam

Chief of State (General) Nguyen Khanh is exiled from Vietnam.


Please note: People's Action Party of Vietnam

Please note: Cambodian - Cambodian Freedom Fighters

The articles are important to show that Organizations that are not involed in the POLITICAL process in their nation are mentioned on wikipedia because they are newsworthy and have a historic value on them.

Based on history you dont have to be located in a country to be involved in the nations political process.

Wikipedia is an example of information that is avialable on it and I have provided only a small percentage of these organizations.


You and I know that there is a reason that the Cuban Demoracy Groups cannot protest freely in Cuba, that is why there are in Miami, and they are ALSO listed here on wikipedia.

I would ask you please refrain from your negative comments:

"Point 7: Stop with the useless name-dropping. Show me a picture of your master with the King of Thailand"

I am a Vietnamese and belive in Democracy, so if you have any negative feelings that are personal to me, I hope you will cease.

My name is Brandon Ngugyen and I am proud of who I am and the only master I have is the Lord. I respect my parents and my rich Vietnames culture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bnguyen

I am who I am and not here stick to the facts and not make personal attacks.

It seems to me that this is the same issues that I have been researching on your previous posts concerning Joseph Crisp II located in Texas.


I dont know what you personal agenda here I am here to learn and also add about my culture and also about topics that interst me, please take a look at my contributions and you can view them.

Bnguyen 02:42, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Just More of the Same

I don't care where you are from, only what has been written here. If you have documented poll numbers that a majority of Vietnamese people support the "Government of Free Vietnam" then post them and cite your source, otherwise stop making grandiose claims on behalf of a private organization.

Nguyen Khanh may be the head of a Vietnamese-American exile group but he is not the Chief of State of any country or government in the world. Wikipedia deals with facts not dreams. I am aware that numerous minority groups in Europe and North America have their own pressure groups, but none of them are political forces in their home nation, they are exile groups so be honest about it and don't try to claim they play a part in politics at home. Overseas people do play a part in the politics of some nations, but Vietnam is not one of them as the Communist Party in Vietnam is the ONLY legal party and the only ones allowed to participate.

Asking you to cite sources and produce evidence is not negativity, though it is usually claimed as such by people who cannot back what they say. Furthermore, I could care less who you are or what you believe in, though it would point to you being a less than impartial source of information. I only care about what gets put up here as fact. You can't post baseless claims and then moan when challenged about it.

I have never made any posts about anybody from Texas, and you really need to get over your obsession with the guy. One of the moderators already looked into your repeated posts about him and warned you to stay on topic and stop trying to bring up irrelevant topics. I have no agenda, but the look of your contributions and the trouble you have been in in the past with pushing royal pretenders suggest that you are not the pure innocent you claim to be. All anyone needs to do is look at the archived history and see the heap of trouble from identity thieves and sock puppets relating to you and these supposed Vietnamese royals to see what efforts they have gone to in order to use Wikipedia to push an agenda.

NguyenHue 01:08, 9 April 2006 (UTC)NguyenHue

[edit] Exile Groups are Important

Leaders of Exile Groups are important if they show that their platform have a role in their communities inside and outside of their nation.

Your 1st Statement: Nguyen Khanh may be the head of a Vietnamese-American exile group but he is not the Chief of State of any country or government in the world.

Evidence that you are incorrect:

Your 2nd Statement: Overseas people do play a part in the politics of some nations, but Vietnam is not one of them as the Communist Party in Vietnam is the ONLY legal party and the only ones allowed to participate.

Evidence that you are incorrect:

To show that exile groups in Vietnam have made moves over the years to influence the people and the government for democratic reform.

Your 3rd Statement: "Furthermore, I could care less who you are or what you believe in, though it would point to you being a less than impartial source of information."

Evidence that you are incorrect:


I have been contributing [1] by adding information here in wikipedia and it can be researched any moderator. I am neither a sockpocket or a culprit to bring inferior knowledge to wikipedia. Currently I am on a Educational Study Program located in the capital city of Kuwait because I recieved a grant. I am greatly appreciative that I am allowed to study abroad and also to give lectures on Vietnamese History as specifically the Vietnam war to Highschool students. My IP address can be checked my any moderator.

You may not care who I am because I am a real person [2] not someone trying to pretend that they are some Vietnamese Folk Hero. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Bnguyen


Your 4th Statement:"I have never made any posts about anybody from Texas, and you really need to get over your obsession with the guy."

Evidence can be obtained: Any moderator can check find your IP address and that you are are located in Texas and it can be researched on your writing style that you are Joseph Crips II and personal website as a reference [3], so dont start giving any mis-information that you are not located in Texas.

Mr. Nguyen Phuc Buu Chanh is the President of the Vietnamese Constitutional Monarchist League and he is news-worthy in the Vietnamese Community in exile and in vietnam.

Also he has been recongnized for his writings from the Khmer Krom people that are minorities living in Vietnam.

Cited: *A Royal Solution for a Nationalist Vietnam posted by their Office on November 23, 2004.

Bnguyen 01:34, 9 April 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Deal With It Or Move On

You are not addressing anything, nor or you providing any legitimate sources for what I have actually been talking about, all these other groups have nothing to do with this page. Information like that or your own personal history is just wasting space. And, FYI, one of the moderators looked into your accusations (possibly lovers quarrel?) with the Crisp guy and warned you to stop making statements like that -and by the way, a look at that website shows just another royalty-ass-kisser which anyone can see I certainly am not. And get real -like anyone is going to believe I am actually trying to make people believe I am *the* Nguyen Hue who fought the Mongols -get real. Either address the topic at hand or move on. NguyenHue 21:22, 4 May 2006 (UTC)NguyenHue


[edit] Above are examples

Presented above is why Vietnamese exile government is important and it is all ready listed on wikipedia. As the above organizations that I have listed from other non-asian anti-communist organizations. Nguyen Khanh was voted as the Chief of State of the Government in Exile Government of Free Vietnam. Your statements above demeaning myself and making negative comments are clearly against the rules of the community here on wikipedia. Please stop stating negative comments like that because I and other people here on wikipedia do not appreciate it. Bnguyen 07:25, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

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